Help!!!

[Lizzy]

Hi All,
I just got my Grad Dip on Computing - with OO C++, Data Base, Systems Design
and Analysis being the main practical units I did.

I would like a job in C++ and then I would like to move into Project Management
(that being my background in another industry).

But I have to sit tests set by prospective employers (and like the questions
are NOT easy) and you need 2 years experience.

So, I am really depressed just now. I do not know how to get this experience.
AND when I compare the code I wrote at Uni with some of the stuff I can
download from the net...it all seems rather impossible.

Can someone please suggest a way I can get a foot in the door?
Thks
Liz

[Michael Q. Gautier]

Elena usually posts the most elegant and effective advisory, but until she
post this may be helpful.

1. Independently contract your services. If you have friends starting or
running a business, then perhaps they need some technology. That is how I
got started years ago. You can do it to, but it took me a year to move into
permanent position. Uncertainty is the greatest tension here, yet you will
have the most freedom. This will also give you a pattern and context for
how to do certain types of software.

2. Try to get hired at small businesses. They say the economy is rebounding
and that small businesses are leading this rebound (MSNBC). I work in large
business right now, but small businesses are where you thrive as an individual.
Pros: Freedom, faster growth, noticeable impact, timely decisions; Cons:
Lower salary, shorter tenures, and more personally focused politics.

3. Do help desk/tech support or some other non programmer job at a large
company. This was an option I was going to take, but thankfully I didn't
have to. I know a few people that were able to do it this way. I hear today,
that this is less of a path for would be Big Biz Programmers. Pros: Relatively
permanent, more benefits, more professional work place; Cons: Organization
politics, slow movement on decisions and implementation, unclear of real
impact, upward mobility can be difficult depending on hierarchy and other
organizational stuff.

4. Move to the geographic area that would seem most open to your skill set/experience
level. Try to get a relocation package and offer. Sometimes you can't but
I would keep this one in mind. Pros: Greatest flexibility and opens up the
nation or the world to you. Cons: Travel/Relocation can suck; money may not
be good, grass may not be greener and other stuff of that nature.

Don't tell anyone you want to be a project manager or about your past experience
unless it would get you the job. You may just want to get in as a programmer
or technician first and then make your move.

Think about doing different combinations of things like: C++ web development
(who doesn't need a very fast web application), Middleware or web services
development, Backend development. Frame yourself in the context of modern
technology and industry buzzwords since, obviously, some hire on that basis
(you just want the job at this point). Be what they are looking for say what
they want to hear.

Independent work that is demonstrable is crucial to presenting yourself above
your peers.

[Steve]

Some advice I can give you.

#1. Spend a bit of time, set yourself up a simple web page, build some nice
solid sample applications with well structured and documented code and put
links up with a copy of your resume. Then on your resume that you send in
to employers put a link to your website indicating that you have code samples
there. I have personally hired someone that was just out of school, I was
about to throw his resume in the "Nah" bin when I saw the link. I checked
it out and the samples demonstrated creativity and self-interest in good
programming practices and style. So I convinced my boss to interview and
later hire him, and he turned into one of the best developers that I've worked
with. Think of it like your portfolio.

#2. Canvass rather than "look", and if your school has a job board, get your
resume on it. Quite frankly, junior positions are rarely posted in papers,
and almost never found through head-hunters. (I got that shock quite bluntly
from a headhunter when I wrote them a nasty letter when they refused to consider
me for a position that wanted 2 years XP, After I had some XP, they were
more than happy to help place me:) Print up easy to read resume's and drop
them off at companies that you know in the area do C++ development. One neat
idea I saw was someone that printed a resume that folded up to the size of
a business card and handed those out.

#3. Look for testing positions. Especially if they are open to the idea of
you moving into development when a position opens. This can be one of the
best ways to enter a company since it gives you an opportunity to get familiar
with the product without the "in the frying pan" feeling when you get dumped
in as a developer. If you get in as a tester, be sure to show initiative!
Ask to be setup with a development environment once you're effectively testing
the application, then spend a few extra hours digging through code on breaks
and after work. Just being seen as interested in the products is often enough
to convince development teams to give you a shot. (read up on testing terminology
on the web to help with landing a position. I.e. the difference between White
Box and Black Box testing, etc.)

#4. Depending on where you live, consider moving. South Eastern U.S. is hiring
people from what I've seen, but do some investigation into what areas are
looking for developers.

#5. Capitalize on any opportunity you can. When I entered the market, I was
predominantly C++, but there was nothing on the market. I ended up getting
hired on a small contract with Access, and later moved into VB.

Overall, if you can get in doing testing or what-not, show creativity. If
you're testing and they don't have a tool for automated testing, or something
to effectively log & communicate defects, build one in your spare time. Ever
since I started developing I have had test folders full of all kinds of intersting
ideas from DCOM, scripting, a time entry program, add-in controls for VB,
etc. Innovation will go a long way when finding work and advancing your career.

Steve.

"Lizzy" <etwas52@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Hi All,
>I just got my Grad Dip on Computing - with OO C++, Data Base, Systems Design
>and Analysis being the main practical units I did.
>
>I would like a job in C++ and then I would like to move into Project Management
>(that being my background in another industry).
>
>But I have to sit tests set by prospective employers (and like the questions
>are NOT easy) and you need 2 years experience.
>
>So, I am really depressed just now. I do not know how to get this experience.
> AND when I compare the code I wrote at Uni with some of the stuff I can
>download from the net...it all seems rather impossible.
>
>Can someone please suggest a way I can get a foot in the door?
>Thks
>Liz

[Elena]

Hmmmm. . . The other two posters have given you several good suggestions and
right now I can't think of any they've missed. But I wanted to ask you a
bit about your career plan.

You mentioned that you wanted to start in C++ then move into project management
because you've done project management elsewhere. I'm wondering what your
projected timeline looks like. How many years did you expect to work as
a developer . . . 1? 2? 5? Software development is about much more than
just a single language. Whether you go with a Unix environment, Microsoft
or IBM mainframe, there are a lot of ancillary technologies that you have
to grasp (if not master) in order to be productive. That's why employers
keep insisting on 2 years experience for developers right out of school.
So let's say 2 years to become proficient then another 2-3 years to get
into a into a project management job. (I'm not speaking of senior programmer
or lead developer here, I'm assuming you mean a project manager that manages
a team of developers, deals with the budgets, deals with the people issues
like raises, performance reviews, all the usual interpersonal issues, the
proposals to management, the vendor contract negotiations, the whole nine
yards.) That's a minimum of almost 5 years before you can seriously expect
to get into project management. (Frankly, 5 years might be too aggressive.)
And in 5 years there will certainly be technology shifts on all development
platforms so you have to keep upgrading your technical skills along the way.


Some people get into project management thru the "Business Analyst" path.
The BA works with the developers to ensure the software being developed
is in line with the business objectives. The BA is the liason between the
tech people and the business people and is a vital communications link between
them. I actually think a good Business Analyst might make a better project
manager than a good software developer because the required BA skillset is
closer to project management than the developer's skillset of C++, OOP, databases,
whatever. (Yes, I know, I can hear the howling already - - Project Managers
must know all the details of the technology! Project Managers must be able
to review my code! We can have that debate if people really want it.)

Anyway, I'm blathering on about this because I'm concerned that it might
take you a year or more to get a software developer job in this crummy economy
and then several more years to get even close to the job you're really aiming
at. (If you're not talking about the U.S. job market, then perhaps none of
what I'm saying is relevant.)

So my suggestion is to consider opening up your job search a little to include
jobs other than C++ programmer. Michael suggested NOT telling prospective
employers you are interested in project management. That's probably the
right approach if you really want a software developer job but maybe not
for your ultimate goal.

In my experience, project manager jobs in all companies OTHER than software
companies have less to do with technology and more to do with communication,
business leadership and financial tasks. There's more than one path to that
job. Just something to think about.

Elena

[simon]

Lizzy,

Well, I am a little late to the rescue, heehee, and I can see that you are
already in great hands. But allow me to add my $0.02.

If you really want to do Project Management, you may not want to dig too
deep into programming. Project Management is about managing people and tasks.
It is about communicating to developers, management, users, vendors, etc
etc. It is about motivating people to do what you like them to do for you.
In another word, a project manager is a politician. He/she does not (and
should not) do technical design work.

Having said that, I believe it is not important for you to acquire programming
experience in order to accomplish your goal. What you need to acquire is
the industry-specific knowledge. You must understand thoroughly the business
and know how the system works.

Hope this helps.

simon.



"Lizzy" <etwas52@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Hi All,
>I just got my Grad Dip on Computing - with OO C++, Data Base, Systems Design
>and Analysis being the main practical units I did.
>
>I would like a job in C++ and then I would like to move into Project Management
>(that being my background in another industry).
>
>But I have to sit tests set by prospective employers (and like the questions
>are NOT easy) and you need 2 years experience.
>
>So, I am really depressed just now. I do not know how to get this experience.
> AND when I compare the code I wrote at Uni with some of the stuff I can
>download from the net...it all seems rather impossible.
>
>Can someone please suggest a way I can get a foot in the door?
>Thks
>Liz

[MarkN]

Tossing my small change in too. (What everyone has said is pretty good)

Project Management <> Project Manager.

To me what you want to be is a Project Manager. I think to do this well
you will have to have some understanding of the technology the people are
using on the project you are managing. If you are a project manager or anyone
else who is doing Project Management or more correctly is leading the Project
Management effort then you should be a type 'A' person or pretty close to
it. Project Management is the job of everyone on the project. The person
leading the Project Management effort does not need to be the project manager.
For talented 'developers' (etc.), a project manager is good for project
ownership but not for managing the 'developers'. They usually get in the
way and cause bad technical and architectual decisions to be made.


"simon" <substring0NOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Lizzy,
>
>Well, I am a little late to the rescue, heehee, and I can see that you are
>already in great hands. But allow me to add my $0.02.
>
>If you really want to do Project Management, you may not want to dig too
>deep into programming. Project Management is about managing people and
tasks.
> It is about communicating to developers, management, users, vendors, etc
>etc. It is about motivating people to do what you like them to do for you.
> In another word, a project manager is a politician. He/she does not (and
>should not) do technical design work.
>
>Having said that, I believe it is not important for you to acquire programming
>experience in order to accomplish your goal. What you need to acquire is
>the industry-specific knowledge. You must understand thoroughly the business
>and know how the system works.
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>simon.
>
>
>
>"Lizzy" <etwas52@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>Hi All,
>>I just got my Grad Dip on Computing - with OO C++, Data Base, Systems Design
>>and Analysis being the main practical units I did.
>>
>>I would like a job in C++ and then I would like to move into Project Management
>>(that being my background in another industry).
>>
>>But I have to sit tests set by prospective employers (and like the questions
>>are NOT easy) and you need 2 years experience.
>>
>>So, I am really depressed just now. I do not know how to get this experience.
>> AND when I compare the code I wrote at Uni with some of the stuff I can
>>download from the net...it all seems rather impossible.
>>
>>Can someone please suggest a way I can get a foot in the door?
>>Thks
>>Liz
>