Best Java Development environment

[H. Wilson]

What are your opinions as to which Java development software is the "best"?
(i.e. J++ 6.0, Visual Cafe, etc)

Thanks.

[John Timney (MVP)]

if your familiar with the visual studio environment - I think its one of the
best, cafe is crap, totally bug ridden and collapses all the time...a trait
of pure java apps it seems...aswell as them all being really slow.

I use a raw text editor called textpad...that I think is the best way
because it teaches you from the bottom up.

Regards

John Timney (MVP)


H. Wilson <hwilson@proresponse.net> wrote in message
news:38cfda77$1@news.devx.com...
>
> What are your opinions as to which Java development software is the
"best"?
> (i.e. J++ 6.0, Visual Cafe, etc)
>
> Thanks.

[Tom Duffy]

Hello John:

With all due respect, J++ is not Java. In fact, J++ is merely another Microsoft
Win32 development tool that happens to use Java as its language. If you
are going to develop for the Win32 platform there are much better tools than
J++ (i.e VC++, VB, Delphi...).

Java is migrating to the server - a much more heterogeneous world than the
desktop and J++ doesn't even address that aspect of Java. You're a JSP/servlet
developer - would you use J++ to do either of those things?

Finally, J++ uses the JDK v 1.1.4! If you'd like to use the newer stuff
you'd better be prepared to jump through some seriously skinny hoops.

I've been using Visual Cafe for a few years and even teach Java at a local
college using Cafe. Yes it does have its quirks (read "bugs") but they are
well documented and Symantec does a pretty good job of addressing concrete
concerns through its Ask a Tech system. On the other hand, Cafe generates
Java code that is "pure Java" (whatever that means!) and it's completely
customizable. You can actually learn Java by using Cafe. The same can't
be said for J++.

Visual Cafe was written in C++ - not Java. It is a Win32 application only,
not a pure Java app at all. It's slow because of the two way code generation
- not because the application has any part of it written in Java. It may
have collapsed on you because of some DLL corruption - an aspect of programming
that, as I'm sure you know, Java is not susceptible to.

"Crap" is better suited for J++ than any other Java environment.

My two cents.

Tom Duffy

"John Timney (MVP)" <timneyj@btinternet.com> wrote:
>if your familiar with the visual studio environment - I think its one of
the
>best, cafe is crap, totally bug ridden and collapses all the time...a trait
>of pure java apps it seems...aswell as them all being really slow.
>
>I use a raw text editor called textpad...that I think is the best way
>because it teaches you from the bottom up.
>
>Regards
>
>John Timney (MVP)
>
>
>H. Wilson <hwilson@proresponse.net> wrote in message
>news:38cfda77$1@news.devx.com...
>>
>> What are your opinions as to which Java development software is the
>"best"?
>> (i.e. J++ 6.0, Visual Cafe, etc)
>>
>> Thanks.
>
>

[H. Wilson]

Thank you guys for your input. I'm very familiar with J++, which is the environment
that I used at my previous position. At my new position with a different
company, we're starting out from scratch.

I didn't particularly like J++, but it served it's purpose. I was writing
IVR telephony software...so there was no GUI interface, etc.

I haven't developed Java under any other platform than J++, so I'm curious
to try something else. The freebee stuff from Sun is just getting old, via
command-line compiling, etc, etc.

Tom, have you tried any other environments other than Visual Cafe? Although
you didn't say, I'm assuming Visual Cafe is your environment of choice.
Thanks again for your inputs, and I'll look deeper into Visual Cafe.

Best regards,
Herbie Wilson

"Tom Duffy" <td4729@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Hello John:
>
>With all due respect, J++ is not Java. In fact, J++ is merely another Microsoft
>Win32 development tool that happens to use Java as its language. If you
>are going to develop for the Win32 platform there are much better tools
than
>J++ (i.e VC++, VB, Delphi...).
>
>Java is migrating to the server - a much more heterogeneous world than the
>desktop and J++ doesn't even address that aspect of Java. You're a JSP/servlet
>developer - would you use J++ to do either of those things?
>
>Finally, J++ uses the JDK v 1.1.4! If you'd like to use the newer stuff
>you'd better be prepared to jump through some seriously skinny hoops.
>
>I've been using Visual Cafe for a few years and even teach Java at a local
>college using Cafe. Yes it does have its quirks (read "bugs") but they
are
>well documented and Symantec does a pretty good job of addressing concrete
>concerns through its Ask a Tech system. On the other hand, Cafe generates
>Java code that is "pure Java" (whatever that means!) and it's completely
>customizable. You can actually learn Java by using Cafe. The same can't
>be said for J++.
>
>Visual Cafe was written in C++ - not Java. It is a Win32 application only,
>not a pure Java app at all. It's slow because of the two way code generation
>- not because the application has any part of it written in Java. It may
>have collapsed on you because of some DLL corruption - an aspect of programming
>that, as I'm sure you know, Java is not susceptible to.
>
>"Crap" is better suited for J++ than any other Java environment.
>
>My two cents.
>
>Tom Duffy

[Tom Duffy]

Hello Herbie:

I use Cafe exclusively. In fact, when I design an applet or application,
I no longer think in terms of how to do it in Java, but rather, how to do
it in Cafe. It's really a great RAD tool that let's you write any code you'd
like.

The best tool in Cafe, however, is the Interaction wizard which creates event
coding for you. I use the tool in my classes to teach the Java Event delegation
model. It allows for developers new to Java to create full-featured programs
without having to know the event model FIRST.

I've also heard good things about JBuilder3 and Oracle's JDeveloper.

Hope this helps.

Tom Duffy

"H. Wilson" <hwilson@proresponse.net> wrote:
>
>Thank you guys for your input. I'm very familiar with J++, which is the
environment
>that I used at my previous position. At my new position with a different
>company, we're starting out from scratch.
>
>I didn't particularly like J++, but it served it's purpose. I was writing
>IVR telephony software...so there was no GUI interface, etc.
>
>I haven't developed Java under any other platform than J++, so I'm curious
>to try something else. The freebee stuff from Sun is just getting old,
via
>command-line compiling, etc, etc.
>
>Tom, have you tried any other environments other than Visual Cafe? Although
>you didn't say, I'm assuming Visual Cafe is your environment of choice.

>Thanks again for your inputs, and I'll look deeper into Visual Cafe.
>
>Best regards,
>Herbie Wilson
>
>"Tom Duffy" <td4729@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>Hello John:
>>
>>With all due respect, J++ is not Java. In fact, J++ is merely another
Microsoft
>>Win32 development tool that happens to use Java as its language. If you
>>are going to develop for the Win32 platform there are much better tools
>than
>>J++ (i.e VC++, VB, Delphi...).
>>
>>Java is migrating to the server - a much more heterogeneous world than
the
>>desktop and J++ doesn't even address that aspect of Java. You're a JSP/servlet
>>developer - would you use J++ to do either of those things?
>>
>>Finally, J++ uses the JDK v 1.1.4! If you'd like to use the newer stuff
>>you'd better be prepared to jump through some seriously skinny hoops.
>>
>>I've been using Visual Cafe for a few years and even teach Java at a local
>>college using Cafe. Yes it does have its quirks (read "bugs") but they
>are
>>well documented and Symantec does a pretty good job of addressing concrete
>>concerns through its Ask a Tech system. On the other hand, Cafe generates
>>Java code that is "pure Java" (whatever that means!) and it's completely
>>customizable. You can actually learn Java by using Cafe. The same can't
>>be said for J++.
>>
>>Visual Cafe was written in C++ - not Java. It is a Win32 application only,
>>not a pure Java app at all. It's slow because of the two way code generation
>>- not because the application has any part of it written in Java. It may
>>have collapsed on you because of some DLL corruption - an aspect of programming
>>that, as I'm sure you know, Java is not susceptible to.
>>
>>"Crap" is better suited for J++ than any other Java environment.
>>
>>My two cents.
>>
>>Tom Duffy

[John Timney (MVP)]

> With all due respect, J++ is not Java. In fact, J++ is merely another
Microsoft
> Win32 development tool that happens to use Java as its language. If you
> are going to develop for the Win32 platform there are much better tools
than
> J++ (i.e VC++, VB, Delphi...).

I agree with you and disagree, J++ is a tool for developing java - so how
can it not be java, its entirely capabale of producing native java, and
surely the point of java is that it produces code that will run under any
runtime.

> Java is migrating to the server - a much more heterogeneous world than the
> desktop and J++ doesn't even address that aspect of Java. You're a
JSP/servlet
> developer - would you use J++ to do either of those things?

Well actually I do, mainly to write classes that can also be invoked as COM
objects from languages like asp. If your familiar with JSP, it can use
server based classes just as a desktop app would. However, I actually
prefer the JDK or the JSDK.

> Finally, J++ uses the JDK v 1.1.4! If you'd like to use the newer stuff
> you'd better be prepared to jump through some seriously skinny hoops.

your right ...roll on the settlement of all that court case stuff so we can
see where they are going with it.

> I've been using Visual Cafe for a few years and even teach Java at a local
> college using Cafe. Yes it does have its quirks (read "bugs") but they
are
> well documented and Symantec does a pretty good job of addressing concrete
> concerns through its Ask a Tech system. On the other hand, Cafe generates
> Java code that is "pure Java" (whatever that means!) and it's completely
> customizable. You can actually learn Java by using Cafe. The same can't
> be said for J++.

Again, we'll have to agree to disagree, I dont like Cafe, it very unstable,
and it has far too many
symantec specific plug-ins for my liking ... but then I'm a cynic. I
personally think that J++ and Cafe are pretty similar...and they are both
outdone by the simple jdk.

> Visual Cafe was written in C++ - not Java. It is a Win32 application
only,
> not a pure Java app at all. It's slow because of the two way code
generation
> - not because the application has any part of it written in Java. It may
> have collapsed on you because of some DLL corruption - an aspect of
programming
> that, as I'm sure you know, Java is not susceptible to.

I meant that it was a trait of pure java apps to perform really poorly, not
that cafe was a pure java app ....it hangs all the time, your lucky to get
through a day without it collapsing a number of times. The only thing my
develoipment teams use it for now
is to layout co-ordinates easily .. even that can hang.

> "Crap" is better suited for J++ than any other Java environment.

I suppose its always down to perosnal preference, but as I said it is ideal
if your familiar with the environment, but then theres a lot of crap about
when it comes down to software, J++ never seems to hang on me.

> My two cents.

and more than welcome to hear an alternative viewpoint.

Regards

John Timney (MVP)

[Reena Sharma]

"H. Wilson" <hwilson@proresponse.net> wrote:
>
>What are your opinions as to which Java development software is the "best"?
> (i.e. J++ 6.0, Visual Cafe, etc)
>
>Thanks.

I've used Borland's JBuilder2 to develop some applications using Network
programming and Java API. I never faced any problem with JBuilder2.