Job Hopper?

[Peter Le]

Hi folks,

I am very impressed on seeing some of the responses in this forum, so I'd
like to present my situation here in the hope that maybe some of you could
point me to the right direction. I graduated from college since 1990 and
had about 4 years of mainframe programming for a local university. After
that, I worked in foxpro/Visual foxpro/SQL Server about more than a year at
a non-profit org and exactly 2 years at a pharmaceutical company. Then I
got so sick of foxpro that I went for a job at a city agency, hoping to
learn and use Oracle developer (that's what they advertised to me when I
went on the job interview). After staying there for 6 months and getting
fired (mainly because I couldn't get along with the political environment in
the government), I was lucky enough to obtain a job with a software company
where I really enjoyed working with VB/SQL/ASP. Unfortunately, after 7
months, I heard some people that I might get better salary somewhere else
since my current employer at the time paid below the market, so I accepted
another job offer from a well-known company in wall st. This time, the
interviewer misled me about the position and convinced me that I would be
hired to do java development. After I came onboard, I found out that my
task was to maintain a legacy application in foxpro, and any promises to
conver the app to java appeared to be a gimmick. Trying to stay put in that
company for about 2 months, I found another job where I only stayed for 3
months because the users decided to outsource the project, and I am
currently working as a java developer for a small company ( I 've been
staying with this company ever since.)

In short, as you can see from the above, I am afraid that future employers
would look at my background and think that I am a "job hopper". While they
are partly correct in this assessment, I feel the need to avoid getting
stuck in a situation that I had no control or the environment does not allow
me to grow in technology. All of these changes will probably force me to
stay with my current employer for years to come. My question to you all is:
Do I make a blunder in my career by changing jobs in a matter of months
rather than years? I feel that established companies would look down on
someone with my background, but could this be fixed in any ways?...

Thanks for your insight,

Peter

[Matthew Cromer]

Hi Peter.

I guess my first question is: what do you want from your career in software
development? Are you looking to move every few years to new companies and
new challenges? Are you looking to move into management? It sounds like
you enjoy moving from company to company, project to project, or at least
like it better than working the same job for years and years. Maybe you
should look into consulting. The pay is generally better (sometimes a lot
better), and no one will every question you about working only three months
at one place. You can generally avoid office politics as well, which sounds
like something you would just as soon avoid. On the downside, you must be
responsible for your own training and for keeping working on valuable, salable
skills. You must also be prepared for a gig to end overnight, without warning,
and having to go out and find other work. That means keeping a large cash
cushion for rainy days. Also, you should be comfortable moving into a new
position and performing productively with minimal start-up time. An ability
to interview well is very important, because you will do it often. Expect
to sit in the worst spaces in offices, even though you will probably make
more money than anyone else in the office. If you do go the consulting route,
you should be extremely wary about consulting companies because they will
try to pay you as little as possible (and charge as much as possible for
your services to the client). I would only consider consulting a good idea
if your work is a high caliber and generally impresses other developers you
work with. I'd recommend you hang around at the RealRates web site and message
board (www.realrates.com) to familiarize yourself with the lifestyle.

Good luck,

Matthew Cromer

[Oren]

> I am afraid that future employers
> would look at my background and think that I am a "job hopper".

As an owner/manager of a business I can tell you this is quite likely. I
generally tell my employees to put the hoppers in the "maybe contact in the
future pile" (iow, maybe around 6980 or so) unless they have a kick ***
resume, and then usually they have to kick *** in the phone interview before
we will even grant them an in person...........
With the number of ppl jumping ship to get into the latest "internet
startup", even if you are a bleeding edge company, you want to be sure that
you have employees that you can count on to finish there projects. As
comprehensively continuing someone elses project usually takes a **** of a
lot of re-writing, or a **** of a lot of time sitting through the code and
figuring out what the **** they did, comments or not. I as the employer have
to not only pay for the employees time to sit down and read the code of
someone who left for better stock options, but I lose the money associated
with him working on his other project(s).

*note, project can also mean a specific module in a
program

> Do I make a blunder in my career by changing jobs in a matter of months
> rather than years?

It is not a sign that most companies like seeing, but if you have good
references from everywhere you worked, it might not matter as long as the
company takes the time to call them and does not drop your resume into the
"call later" bin.

> I feel that established companies would look down on
> someone with my background, but could this be fixed in any ways?...

It might be difficult to overcome, but as long as you have a kick ***,
down to earth, resume you should at least get an interview. The interview is
your chance to really show what you can do. It also lets you show that you
have a great personality that will make you a beneficial part of the
office's working environment. If you can ace the interview, then don't
really worry about anything else.


Oren

[Charlie]

Peter - I was a software development manager for several years, and can tell
you that a track record like yours would set off every warning bell in my
head. By changing jobs every few months, you give the impression that you
place your happiness in the hands of your employer, and when they fail you,
you're a vapor trail to the exit. No manager wants to deal with someone
who needs to be catered to like that! What you need to realize is that employers
are not going to make you happy - you've got to find your own happiness,
whether you're developing in foxpro, java, or Cobol.
You're almost never going to find an employer who will allow you to walk
in the door and instantly start working on the coolest stuff in the building.
You've got to pay your dues first. If you perform well, you will be given
opportunities.

"Oren" <CompuMight@erols.com> wrote:
>> I am afraid that future employers
>> would look at my background and think that I am a "job hopper".
>
> As an owner/manager of a business I can tell you this is quite likely.
I
>generally tell my employees to put the hoppers in the "maybe contact in
the
>future pile" (iow, maybe around 6980 or so) unless they have a kick ***
>resume, and then usually they have to kick *** in the phone interview before
>we will even grant them an in person...........
> With the number of ppl jumping ship to get into the latest "internet
>startup", even if you are a bleeding edge company, you want to be sure that
>you have employees that you can count on to finish there projects. As
>comprehensively continuing someone elses project usually takes a **** of
a
>lot of re-writing, or a **** of a lot of time sitting through the code and
>figuring out what the **** they did, comments or not. I as the employer
have
>to not only pay for the employees time to sit down and read the code of
>someone who left for better stock options, but I lose the money associated
>with him working on his other project(s).
>
> *note, project can also mean a specific module in a
>program
>
>> Do I make a blunder in my career by changing jobs in a matter of months
>> rather than years?
>
> It is not a sign that most companies like seeing, but if you have good
>references from everywhere you worked, it might not matter as long as the
>company takes the time to call them and does not drop your resume into the
>"call later" bin.
>
>> I feel that established companies would look down on
>> someone with my background, but could this be fixed in any ways?...
>
> It might be difficult to overcome, but as long as you have a kick ***,
>down to earth, resume you should at least get an interview. The interview
is
>your chance to really show what you can do. It also lets you show that you
>have a great personality that will make you a beneficial part of the
>office's working environment. If you can ace the interview, then don't
>really worry about anything else.
>
>
> Oren
>
>

[Peter Le]

Thank you for your feedback, Charlie. While I appreciate yours and others'
constructive criticism,
I still think that there are exceptions to the rule. In this new economy,
being loyal to one employer does not mean that the employee can blindly
forfeit his or her career if there is no ultimate career path for that
employee in the organization. I have seen cases when a loyal employee got
"down-sized" (or "right sized") after spending 10 or 12 years with the same
company. I guess that 's why the French called it "C' est la vie!"

Regards,

Peter

"Charlie" <ca_germ@deja.com> wrote in message
news:398b5d10$1@news.devx.com...
>
> Peter - I was a software development manager for several years, and can
tell
> you that a track record like yours would set off every warning bell in my
> head. By changing jobs every few months, you give the impression that you
> place your happiness in the hands of your employer, and when they fail
you,
> you're a vapor trail to the exit. No manager wants to deal with someone
> who needs to be catered to like that! What you need to realize is that
employers
> are not going to make you happy - you've got to find your own happiness,
> whether you're developing in foxpro, java, or Cobol.
> You're almost never going to find an employer who will allow you to walk
> in the door and instantly start working on the coolest stuff in the
building.
> You've got to pay your dues first. If you perform well, you will be
given
> opportunities.
>
> "Oren" <CompuMight@erols.com> wrote:
> >> I am afraid that future employers
> >> would look at my background and think that I am a "job hopper".
> >
> > As an owner/manager of a business I can tell you this is quite
likely.
> I
> >generally tell my employees to put the hoppers in the "maybe contact in
> the
> >future pile" (iow, maybe around 6980 or so) unless they have a kick ***
> >resume, and then usually they have to kick *** in the phone interview
before
> >we will even grant them an in person...........
> > With the number of ppl jumping ship to get into the latest "internet
> >startup", even if you are a bleeding edge company, you want to be sure
that
> >you have employees that you can count on to finish there projects. As
> >comprehensively continuing someone elses project usually takes a **** of
> a
> >lot of re-writing, or a **** of a lot of time sitting through the code
and
> >figuring out what the **** they did, comments or not. I as the employer
> have
> >to not only pay for the employees time to sit down and read the code of
> >someone who left for better stock options, but I lose the money
associated
> >with him working on his other project(s).
> >
> > *note, project can also mean a specific module in a
> >program
> >
> >> Do I make a blunder in my career by changing jobs in a matter of months
> >> rather than years?
> >
> > It is not a sign that most companies like seeing, but if you have
good
> >references from everywhere you worked, it might not matter as long as the
> >company takes the time to call them and does not drop your resume into
the
> >"call later" bin.
> >
> >> I feel that established companies would look down on
> >> someone with my background, but could this be fixed in any ways?...
> >
> > It might be difficult to overcome, but as long as you have a kick
***,
> >down to earth, resume you should at least get an interview. The interview
> is
> >your chance to really show what you can do. It also lets you show that
you
> >have a great personality that will make you a beneficial part of the
> >office's working environment. If you can ace the interview, then don't
> >really worry about anything else.
> >
> >
> > Oren
> >
> >
>

[Cindy Winegarden]

| In this new economy,
| being loyal to one employer does not mean that the employee can blindly
| forfeit his or her career if there is no ultimate career path for that
| employee in the organization.

Peter,

I guess that is the part you get to explain in the interview - that you
value loyalty also, but the other companies didn't.

You may also have to explain that you made poor employment choices, or that
you had no other choice at the time and took the job anyways, but bailed out
as soon as you could.


--


Cindy Winegarden
Microsoft Certified Professional, Visual FoxPro

Duke Children's Information Systems
Duke University Medical Center
cindyw@duke.edu



"Peter Le" <lemanhduc@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:398b6c42$1@news.devx.com...
| Thank you for your feedback, Charlie. While I appreciate yours and
others'
| constructive criticism,
| I still think that there are exceptions to the rule. In this new economy,
| being loyal to one employer does not mean that the employee can blindly
| forfeit his or her career if there is no ultimate career path for that
| employee in the organization. I have seen cases when a loyal employee got
| "down-sized" (or "right sized") after spending 10 or 12 years with the
same
| company. I guess that 's why the French called it "C' est la vie!"
|
| Regards,
|
| Peter