advice on career

[Prasad]

Hi ,
This is prasad posting the request from chicago,USA.
Currently I am working in mainframe.I have been working with this for
4 years.Recently I thought to switch from this to opensystems/web related.Can
anybody help or guide me to choose the filed and start studying on this.I
really confused on the current scenario.I had a talk with many people.In
jest what I felt is that
1) most of the people's career is driven by the employment and not by interests.
2) Most of the people are getting with one field and continuing with that
exp and not changing to the latest technologies.
As a beginner i need start from the scratch. I have taken the course in
Java,VB and Oracle.I know the concepts and not expert in these.

Could anybody advice me.Thanks for the time spent in reading my advice.
Thanks
Prasad Sivapuram

[Survivor]

To give another perspective, I have used mainly MS technologies for last 8
years. Our whole organization (75,000 employees) is based on MS OS's, e-mail
and desktop suite, though we use Oracle as our DB. That being said, we have
now decided that our application development will henceforth be based on
J2EE, app. server vendor will be either IBM or BEA. All development is web
based, no more client/server at all.

Why the huge shift in gears? Platform independence, MS arrogance (they are
swiftly shooting themselves in the foot) and the perception that this methodology
enforces enterprise architecture principles. Java, Oracle are hot, make
no mistake about it, MS is quickly losing disciples. I will be learning
Java technologies as soon as I can get registered for some books and courses.

Good luck!


"Prasad" <sivapuram_prasad@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Hi ,
> This is prasad posting the request from chicago,USA.
> Currently I am working in mainframe.I have been working with this for
>4 years.Recently I thought to switch from this to opensystems/web related.Can
>anybody help or guide me to choose the filed and start studying on this.I
>really confused on the current scenario.I had a talk with many people.In
>jest what I felt is that
>1) most of the people's career is driven by the employment and not by interests.
>2) Most of the people are getting with one field and continuing with that
>exp and not changing to the latest technologies.
> As a beginner i need start from the scratch. I have taken the course
in
>Java,VB and Oracle.I know the concepts and not expert in these.
>
>Could anybody advice me.Thanks for the time spent in reading my advice.
>Thanks
>Prasad Sivapuram
>

[John Cantley]

1. Most people that are really shallow may opt for this reasoning. Real coders enjoy what they are
doing and are now getting paid well for it. I went for what I enjoy and my career is soaring.
3. If you a complete idiot then this is their view. To embrace a certain technology/platform then it
is in your best interest to embrace new technologies and learn them well.

To say something of the post about Microsoft being arrogant is totally untrue. Their technologies
are embracing the future and they know where their support lies - Developers. I just came from an
anti-Microsoft company that was attempting to do just what Survivors company is trying to do. They
have put the whole process on hold and probably won't be in the business as of next year. To totally
trash Microsoft in favor of Java is asinine. Looking at the big picture is where it is at, not how
many times a Sun account rep takes out your IT director for drinks. With Soap and XML platform is
irrelevant. If there ever comes a time that Microsoft isn't around then that is the time I will do
Java or whatever language is around and not until then. What was the percentage again of computers
running Windows? A **** of alot more than Sun or Linux can boast.

John Cantley, MCSD
"Prasad" <sivapuram_prasad@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:3a107e3b$1@news.devx.com...
>
> Hi ,
> This is prasad posting the request from chicago,USA.
> Currently I am working in mainframe.I have been working with this for
> 4 years.Recently I thought to switch from this to opensystems/web related.Can
> anybody help or guide me to choose the filed and start studying on this.I
> really confused on the current scenario.I had a talk with many people.In
> jest what I felt is that
> 1) most of the people's career is driven by the employment and not by interests.
> 2) Most of the people are getting with one field and continuing with that
> exp and not changing to the latest technologies.
> As a beginner i need start from the scratch. I have taken the course in
> Java,VB and Oracle.I know the concepts and not expert in these.
>
> Could anybody advice me.Thanks for the time spent in reading my advice.
> Thanks
> Prasad Sivapuram
>

[simon]

Prasad,

Thank you very much for your confidence in me (refering to your other post).
I was simply voicing off what I have seen, and trying to present a clear
view to the people who come after us, such that they won't make the same
mistakes, if any, that we and our predecessors had made. It is what this
newsgroup is all about (I hope). Bare in mind that any advice given here is
nothing but the person's point of view and may not apply to you. It is
entirely up to you to sort it thru and make your own decision.

First of all, I ALWAYS against choosing a career path based SOLELY on what
is hot. What is hot today may not be hot tomorrow. Therefore, you could
potentially be chasing the rainbow for the pot of gold. Instead, you should
concentrate on something that you like, something that you really enjoy
doing. The majority of the computer professionals (or at least the people I
know) work in the computer field with great PASSION, and money is never the
primary motivation. If you are good at something, money will come
automatically.

Right now Java is hot, mainly because of the lack of experienced Java
developers. I am not anti-Java because I use it myself. However, if people
try to tell you that Java is the be-all-and-end-all programming tool, it is
far from the truth. Java's front end is so slow and inadequate that
developers have to bring back the 60s and 70s technique and logics to make
it work. The new version of Java is a little better, but still has its
deficiency. Tell me something, can you name a commercial software out there
that is done entirely by Java? The answer is none.

My point is that there is no such thing as one programming tool is better
than another programming tool. Remember that and don't let people fool you
with that. Every tool has its advantage and disadvantage. Having said
that, as a professional developer/programmer, you MUST be proficient in more
than one language/tool.

Learning Java is good, it will enhance your marketability. But learn other
languages like C++ and VB also, don't limit yourself. Since you come from
the mainframe world, I strongly suggest you to take some classes in Object
Oriented Theories and Design. It will strengthen your foundation. To me,
the foundation is VERY VERY important, especially if you do not have a
degree in Computer Science. Everything else is going to be built on this
foundation. Therefore, DO NOT take short-cut. If you have a strong
foundation, it does not matter what tool becomes hot, you can adopt to it
easily without any problem. Unlike those fly-by-the-night programmers who
might have a hard time to change.

Last but not least, learning a lot of different tools is great. But be
careful not to become a jack-of-all-trades and no expert in anything. You
have to pick something to specialize in, something that will become you
bread-and-butter skill, something that you can always fall back to,
something that you enjoy programming with. I might be a little bias in this
one (haha), but I believe the bread-and-butter skill should be C++. If you
are good in C++, Java is a piece of cake (but not the other way around).

Well, it is a long message but I hope you can get something out of it. Feel
free to ask if you have any more question. Good luck.

simon.



Prasad <sivapuram_prasad@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3a107e3b$1@news.devx.com...
>
> Hi ,
> This is prasad posting the request from chicago,USA.
> Currently I am working in mainframe.I have been working with this for
> 4 years.Recently I thought to switch from this to opensystems/web
related.Can
> anybody help or guide me to choose the filed and start studying on this.I
> really confused on the current scenario.I had a talk with many people.In
> jest what I felt is that
> 1) most of the people's career is driven by the employment and not by
interests.
> 2) Most of the people are getting with one field and continuing with that
> exp and not changing to the latest technologies.
> As a beginner i need start from the scratch. I have taken the course in
> Java,VB and Oracle.I know the concepts and not expert in these.
>
> Could anybody advice me.Thanks for the time spent in reading my advice.
> Thanks
> Prasad Sivapuram
>

[Hassan Mir]

simon for president we do need clear advice , no confusions!

"simon" <sto@gtisd.com> wrote:
>Prasad,
>
>Thank you very much for your confidence in me (refering to your other post).
>I was simply voicing off what I have seen, and trying to present a clear
>view to the people who come after us, such that they won't make the same
>mistakes, if any, that we and our predecessors had made. It is what this
>newsgroup is all about (I hope). Bare in mind that any advice given here
is
>nothing but the person's point of view and may not apply to you. It is
>entirely up to you to sort it thru and make your own decision.
>
>First of all, I ALWAYS against choosing a career path based SOLELY on what
>is hot. What is hot today may not be hot tomorrow. Therefore, you could
>potentially be chasing the rainbow for the pot of gold. Instead, you should
>concentrate on something that you like, something that you really enjoy
>doing. The majority of the computer professionals (or at least the people
I
>know) work in the computer field with great PASSION, and money is never
the
>primary motivation. If you are good at something, money will come
>automatically.
>
>Right now Java is hot, mainly because of the lack of experienced Java
>developers. I am not anti-Java because I use it myself. However, if people
>try to tell you that Java is the be-all-and-end-all programming tool, it
is
>far from the truth. Java's front end is so slow and inadequate that
>developers have to bring back the 60s and 70s technique and logics to make
>it work. The new version of Java is a little better, but still has its
>deficiency. Tell me something, can you name a commercial software out there
>that is done entirely by Java? The answer is none.
>
>My point is that there is no such thing as one programming tool is better
>than another programming tool. Remember that and don't let people fool
you
>with that. Every tool has its advantage and disadvantage. Having said
>that, as a professional developer/programmer, you MUST be proficient in
more
>than one language/tool.
>
>Learning Java is good, it will enhance your marketability. But learn other
>languages like C++ and VB also, don't limit yourself. Since you come from
>the mainframe world, I strongly suggest you to take some classes in Object
>Oriented Theories and Design. It will strengthen your foundation. To me,
>the foundation is VERY VERY important, especially if you do not have a
>degree in Computer Science. Everything else is going to be built on this
>foundation. Therefore, DO NOT take short-cut. If you have a strong
>foundation, it does not matter what tool becomes hot, you can adopt to it
>easily without any problem. Unlike those fly-by-the-night programmers who
>might have a hard time to change.
>
>Last but not least, learning a lot of different tools is great. But be
>careful not to become a jack-of-all-trades and no expert in anything. You
>have to pick something to specialize in, something that will become you
>bread-and-butter skill, something that you can always fall back to,
>something that you enjoy programming with. I might be a little bias in
this
>one (haha), but I believe the bread-and-butter skill should be C++. If
you
>are good in C++, Java is a piece of cake (but not the other way around).
>
>Well, it is a long message but I hope you can get something out of it.
Feel
>free to ask if you have any more question. Good luck.
>
>simon.
>
>
>
>Prasad <sivapuram_prasad@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:3a107e3b$1@news.devx.com...
>>
>> Hi ,
>> This is prasad posting the request from chicago,USA.
>> Currently I am working in mainframe.I have been working with this for
>> 4 years.Recently I thought to switch from this to opensystems/web
>related.Can
>> anybody help or guide me to choose the filed and start studying on this.I
>> really confused on the current scenario.I had a talk with many people.In
>> jest what I felt is that
>> 1) most of the people's career is driven by the employment and not by
>interests.
>> 2) Most of the people are getting with one field and continuing with that
>> exp and not changing to the latest technologies.
>> As a beginner i need start from the scratch. I have taken the course
in
>> Java,VB and Oracle.I know the concepts and not expert in these.
>>
>> Could anybody advice me.Thanks for the time spent in reading my advice.
>> Thanks
>> Prasad Sivapuram
>>
>
>

[Kathy]

Hi Prasad,

I don't know what's right for you, but this is how I made the switch from
mainframe to windows/client server.

I was in the same situation as you in 1998. I had been a mainframe(COBOL,
JCL, CICS) programmer for about 4 years and really wanted to make the switch
to windows/client server development. When I realized that I was not going
to get that opportunity with my current employer, I decided to learn VB and
get certified in it. This helped me get my foot in the door of a consulting
company.

But I felt much the same as you did -very confused about what to learn and
where to start. Should I learn C, should I learn Power Builer, or Java.
I chose VB because there seemed to be a huge demand for VB programmers.


I felt that since I didn't have much experience using VB, getting certified
was the next best thing. Since then I've finished getting the MCSD cert.
and have decided to concentrate on Microsoft technologies. My husband on
the other hand has concentrated on mastering IBM/Java technologies.

I found the 2 points you made about people not changing technologies and
staying with whatever their employer uses interesting. I found that to be
very much the case with a lot of the mainframe people I worked with. They
seemed very content doing mostly maintenance on the same system, with pretty
much the same tools and technology year after year.

I think it comes down to what kind of personality you have and what kind
of money you want to make. Unfortunately, I know that my former mainframe
coworkers don't make as much as I make. They also don't spend much of their
free time reading and trying to keep up with the latest, greatest technologies.

Best of luck, whatever you decide to do.

Kathy

"Prasad" <sivapuram_prasad@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Hi ,
> This is prasad posting the request from chicago,USA.
> Currently I am working in mainframe.I have been working with this for
>4 years.Recently I thought to switch from this to opensystems/web related.Can
>anybody help or guide me to choose the filed and start studying on this.I
>really confused on the current scenario.I had a talk with many people.In
>jest what I felt is that
>1) most of the people's career is driven by the employment and not by interests.
>2) Most of the people are getting with one field and continuing with that
>exp and not changing to the latest technologies.
> As a beginner i need start from the scratch. I have taken the course
in
>Java,VB and Oracle.I know the concepts and not expert in these.
>
>Could anybody advice me.Thanks for the time spent in reading my advice.
>Thanks
>Prasad Sivapuram
>

[Matthew Monsoor]

I am still learning on my own time and have been wondering what hardware/software
should one have to be able to move from learning to developing? I find articles
in VBPJ require one or more servers to "do" the program and learn what is
"in" the article. Also how does one prove their programming ability in the
marketplace??

Thanks



"simon" <sto@gtisd.com> wrote:
>Prasad,
>
>Thank you very much for your confidence in me (refering to your other post).
>I was simply voicing off what I have seen, and trying to present a clear
>view to the people who come after us, such that they won't make the same
>mistakes, if any, that we and our predecessors had made. It is what this
>newsgroup is all about (I hope). Bare in mind that any advice given here
is
>nothing but the person's point of view and may not apply to you. It is
>entirely up to you to sort it thru and make your own decision.
>
>First of all, I ALWAYS against choosing a career path based SOLELY on what
>is hot. What is hot today may not be hot tomorrow. Therefore, you could
>potentially be chasing the rainbow for the pot of gold. Instead, you should
>concentrate on something that you like, something that you really enjoy
>doing. The majority of the computer professionals (or at least the people
I
>know) work in the computer field with great PASSION, and money is never
the
>primary motivation. If you are good at something, money will come
>automatically.
>
>Right now Java is hot, mainly because of the lack of experienced Java
>developers. I am not anti-Java because I use it myself. However, if people
>try to tell you that Java is the be-all-and-end-all programming tool, it
is
>far from the truth. Java's front end is so slow and inadequate that
>developers have to bring back the 60s and 70s technique and logics to make
>it work. The new version of Java is a little better, but still has its
>deficiency. Tell me something, can you name a commercial software out there
>that is done entirely by Java? The answer is none.
>
>My point is that there is no such thing as one programming tool is better
>than another programming tool. Remember that and don't let people fool
you
>with that. Every tool has its advantage and disadvantage. Having said
>that, as a professional developer/programmer, you MUST be proficient in
more
>than one language/tool.
>
>Learning Java is good, it will enhance your marketability. But learn other
>languages like C++ and VB also, don't limit yourself. Since you come from
>the mainframe world, I strongly suggest you to take some classes in Object
>Oriented Theories and Design. It will strengthen your foundation. To me,
>the foundation is VERY VERY important, especially if you do not have a
>degree in Computer Science. Everything else is going to be built on this
>foundation. Therefore, DO NOT take short-cut. If you have a strong
>foundation, it does not matter what tool becomes hot, you can adopt to it
>easily without any problem. Unlike those fly-by-the-night programmers who
>might have a hard time to change.
>
>Last but not least, learning a lot of different tools is great. But be
>careful not to become a jack-of-all-trades and no expert in anything. You
>have to pick something to specialize in, something that will become you
>bread-and-butter skill, something that you can always fall back to,
>something that you enjoy programming with. I might be a little bias in
this
>one (haha), but I believe the bread-and-butter skill should be C++. If
you
>are good in C++, Java is a piece of cake (but not the other way around).
>
>Well, it is a long message but I hope you can get something out of it.
Feel
>free to ask if you have any more question. Good luck.
>
>simon.
>
>
>
>Prasad <sivapuram_prasad@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:3a107e3b$1@news.devx.com...
>>
>> Hi ,
>> This is prasad posting the request from chicago,USA.
>> Currently I am working in mainframe.I have been working with this for
>> 4 years.Recently I thought to switch from this to opensystems/web
>related.Can
>> anybody help or guide me to choose the filed and start studying on this.I
>> really confused on the current scenario.I had a talk with many people.In
>> jest what I felt is that
>> 1) most of the people's career is driven by the employment and not by
>interests.
>> 2) Most of the people are getting with one field and continuing with that
>> exp and not changing to the latest technologies.
>> As a beginner i need start from the scratch. I have taken the course
in
>> Java,VB and Oracle.I know the concepts and not expert in these.
>>
>> Could anybody advice me.Thanks for the time spent in reading my advice.
>> Thanks
>> Prasad Sivapuram
>>
>
>

[test]

You don't need any servers to learn to develop unless you're wanting to jump
straight into distributed applications. It doesn't take much to get your
foot in the door. I did a few minor little programs at work and then took
those programs to an interview at a software company. Now, I'm a VB developer.
Hope you find what you're looking for.
"Matthew Monsoor" <monsoor@csus.edu> wrote:
>
>I am still learning on my own time and have been wondering what hardware/software
>should one have to be able to move from learning to developing? I find
articles
>in VBPJ require one or more servers to "do" the program and learn what is
>"in" the article. Also how does one prove their programming ability in
the
>marketplace??
>
>Thanks
>
>
>
>"simon" <sto@gtisd.com> wrote:
>>Prasad,
>>
>>Thank you very much for your confidence in me (refering to your other post).
>>I was simply voicing off what I have seen, and trying to present a clear
>>view to the people who come after us, such that they won't make the same
>>mistakes, if any, that we and our predecessors had made. It is what this
>>newsgroup is all about (I hope). Bare in mind that any advice given here
>is
>>nothing but the person's point of view and may not apply to you. It is
>>entirely up to you to sort it thru and make your own decision.
>>
>>First of all, I ALWAYS against choosing a career path based SOLELY on what
>>is hot. What is hot today may not be hot tomorrow. Therefore, you could
>>potentially be chasing the rainbow for the pot of gold. Instead, you should
>>concentrate on something that you like, something that you really enjoy
>>doing. The majority of the computer professionals (or at least the people
>I
>>know) work in the computer field with great PASSION, and money is never
>the
>>primary motivation. If you are good at something, money will come
>>automatically.
>>
>>Right now Java is hot, mainly because of the lack of experienced Java
>>developers. I am not anti-Java because I use it myself. However, if people
>>try to tell you that Java is the be-all-and-end-all programming tool, it
>is
>>far from the truth. Java's front end is so slow and inadequate that
>>developers have to bring back the 60s and 70s technique and logics to make
>>it work. The new version of Java is a little better, but still has its
>>deficiency. Tell me something, can you name a commercial software out
there
>>that is done entirely by Java? The answer is none.
>>
>>My point is that there is no such thing as one programming tool is better
>>than another programming tool. Remember that and don't let people fool
>you
>>with that. Every tool has its advantage and disadvantage. Having said
>>that, as a professional developer/programmer, you MUST be proficient in
>more
>>than one language/tool.
>>
>>Learning Java is good, it will enhance your marketability. But learn other
>>languages like C++ and VB also, don't limit yourself. Since you come from
>>the mainframe world, I strongly suggest you to take some classes in Object
>>Oriented Theories and Design. It will strengthen your foundation. To
me,
>>the foundation is VERY VERY important, especially if you do not have a
>>degree in Computer Science. Everything else is going to be built on this
>>foundation. Therefore, DO NOT take short-cut. If you have a strong
>>foundation, it does not matter what tool becomes hot, you can adopt to
it
>>easily without any problem. Unlike those fly-by-the-night programmers
who
>>might have a hard time to change.
>>
>>Last but not least, learning a lot of different tools is great. But be
>>careful not to become a jack-of-all-trades and no expert in anything.
You
>>have to pick something to specialize in, something that will become you
>>bread-and-butter skill, something that you can always fall back to,
>>something that you enjoy programming with. I might be a little bias in
>this
>>one (haha), but I believe the bread-and-butter skill should be C++. If
>you
>>are good in C++, Java is a piece of cake (but not the other way around).
>>
>>Well, it is a long message but I hope you can get something out of it.

>Feel
>>free to ask if you have any more question. Good luck.
>>
>>simon.
>>
>>
>>
>>Prasad <sivapuram_prasad@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:3a107e3b$1@news.devx.com...
>>>
>>> Hi ,
>>> This is prasad posting the request from chicago,USA.
>>> Currently I am working in mainframe.I have been working with this
for
>>> 4 years.Recently I thought to switch from this to opensystems/web
>>related.Can
>>> anybody help or guide me to choose the filed and start studying on this.I
>>> really confused on the current scenario.I had a talk with many people.In
>>> jest what I felt is that
>>> 1) most of the people's career is driven by the employment and not by
>>interests.
>>> 2) Most of the people are getting with one field and continuing with
that
>>> exp and not changing to the latest technologies.
>>> As a beginner i need start from the scratch. I have taken the course
>in
>>> Java,VB and Oracle.I know the concepts and not expert in these.
>>>
>>> Could anybody advice me.Thanks for the time spent in reading my advice.
>>> Thanks
>>> Prasad Sivapuram
>>>
>>
>>
>

[simon]

Matt,

Computers are so cheap nowadays that most computer geeks (like me, haha)
have multiple computers at home. And WindowsNT Server runs on a low end
Pentium computer with just 64MB RAM, it will be a little slow, but is okay
for home use. Therefore, setting up a server at home should not be a big
deal. Nowadays, it is extremely rare to find any software or application
that is not for distributed environment.

As of how to prove your programming skill, I hate to tell you this.... the
current job market is very good for experienced programmers, but not so good
for beginners. And when I said "experienced", I am talking about "PAID
EXPERIENCE". That is what most employers are looking for, and not some
programs that you cooked up at home. Knowing how to program "Hello World"
or the "University Bookstore" does not count. I am sorry, but it is
reality. And yes, it is the classic case of "Catch-22".

Therefore, my advice to you is to take any "paid" programming job that you
can find (in line with your career path of course). Don't worry about how
much they are paying you. Once you have some paid experience under your
belt, then the money will come.

Hope this helps.

simon.


"Matthew Monsoor" <monsoor@csus.edu> wrote in message
news:3a2441c0$1@news.devx.com...
>
> I am still learning on my own time and have been wondering what
hardware/software
> should one have to be able to move from learning to developing? I find
articles
> in VBPJ require one or more servers to "do" the program and learn what is
> "in" the article. Also how does one prove their programming ability in
the
> marketplace??
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> "simon" <sto@gtisd.com> wrote:
> >Prasad,
> >
> >Thank you very much for your confidence in me (refering to your other
post).
> >I was simply voicing off what I have seen, and trying to present a clear
> >view to the people who come after us, such that they won't make the same
> >mistakes, if any, that we and our predecessors had made. It is what this
> >newsgroup is all about (I hope). Bare in mind that any advice given here
> is
> >nothing but the person's point of view and may not apply to you. It is
> >entirely up to you to sort it thru and make your own decision.
> >
> >First of all, I ALWAYS against choosing a career path based SOLELY on
what
> >is hot. What is hot today may not be hot tomorrow. Therefore, you could
> >potentially be chasing the rainbow for the pot of gold. Instead, you
should
> >concentrate on something that you like, something that you really enjoy
> >doing. The majority of the computer professionals (or at least the
people
> I
> >know) work in the computer field with great PASSION, and money is never
> the
> >primary motivation. If you are good at something, money will come
> >automatically.
> >
> >Right now Java is hot, mainly because of the lack of experienced Java
> >developers. I am not anti-Java because I use it myself. However, if
people
> >try to tell you that Java is the be-all-and-end-all programming tool, it
> is
> >far from the truth. Java's front end is so slow and inadequate that
> >developers have to bring back the 60s and 70s technique and logics to
make
> >it work. The new version of Java is a little better, but still has its
> >deficiency. Tell me something, can you name a commercial software out
there
> >that is done entirely by Java? The answer is none.
> >
> >My point is that there is no such thing as one programming tool is better
> >than another programming tool. Remember that and don't let people fool
> you
> >with that. Every tool has its advantage and disadvantage. Having said
> >that, as a professional developer/programmer, you MUST be proficient in
> more
> >than one language/tool.
> >
> >Learning Java is good, it will enhance your marketability. But learn
other
> >languages like C++ and VB also, don't limit yourself. Since you come
from
> >the mainframe world, I strongly suggest you to take some classes in
Object
> >Oriented Theories and Design. It will strengthen your foundation. To
me,
> >the foundation is VERY VERY important, especially if you do not have a
> >degree in Computer Science. Everything else is going to be built on this
> >foundation. Therefore, DO NOT take short-cut. If you have a strong
> >foundation, it does not matter what tool becomes hot, you can adopt to it
> >easily without any problem. Unlike those fly-by-the-night programmers
who
> >might have a hard time to change.
> >
> >Last but not least, learning a lot of different tools is great. But be
> >careful not to become a jack-of-all-trades and no expert in anything.
You
> >have to pick something to specialize in, something that will become you
> >bread-and-butter skill, something that you can always fall back to,
> >something that you enjoy programming with. I might be a little bias in
> this
> >one (haha), but I believe the bread-and-butter skill should be C++. If
> you
> >are good in C++, Java is a piece of cake (but not the other way around).
> >
> >Well, it is a long message but I hope you can get something out of it.
> Feel
> >free to ask if you have any more question. Good luck.
> >
> >simon.
> >
> >
> >
> >Prasad <sivapuram_prasad@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:3a107e3b$1@news.devx.com...
> >>
> >> Hi ,
> >> This is prasad posting the request from chicago,USA.
> >> Currently I am working in mainframe.I have been working with this
for
> >> 4 years.Recently I thought to switch from this to opensystems/web
> >related.Can
> >> anybody help or guide me to choose the filed and start studying on
this.I
> >> really confused on the current scenario.I had a talk with many
people.In
> >> jest what I felt is that
> >> 1) most of the people's career is driven by the employment and not by
> >interests.
> >> 2) Most of the people are getting with one field and continuing with
that
> >> exp and not changing to the latest technologies.
> >> As a beginner i need start from the scratch. I have taken the course
> in
> >> Java,VB and Oracle.I know the concepts and not expert in these.
> >>
> >> Could anybody advice me.Thanks for the time spent in reading my advice.
> >> Thanks
> >> Prasad Sivapuram
> >>
> >
> >
>

[Göran Österman]

Hello Prasad,
I´m in the same situation as you, but I started programming mainframes 1970.
In my spare time
I've managed to become quite skilled in VB. The funny thing is, what you
learn is technique and then
you take advantage of that knowledge using different tools (Cobol, C++ or
VB). When I learned DB2 in
mainframe, in the 80's, I thought I knew it all. Today, when I handle Access
och SQL Server, I use what
I learned then, but the tools are different.

I believe that, the tools will vary over time, depending on what's popular
at the moment. Another area,
that will vary but is much more fundamental is the technique (ie. OO, structured
...). No matter what
language you use, using a specific technique will make your life easier and
make it easier to adopt to
knew tools.

My recomendation to you would be, judging from your 4 years of experience,
to stay with mainframe
for a couple more years. It's not always a lot of fun, but you will get a
lot of experience (maybe a
change of employer could be educational). Try to get your employer interested
in PC based education,
or if that's not an option, teach yourself. But bear in mind that the tools
are just a way to implement
your skill in the environment.

Finally, you need a good knowledge about the environment. In the mainframe,
the environment looks
a lot similar to the early days, more complex but basically the same. In
the PC-world, there is a lot to
choose from. Make your choise, and become an expert in that environment,
and you will have a lot
of oportunities in the future (provided they don't put Microsoft out of business).

Regards, Göran Österman

"Matthew Monsoor" <monsoor@csus.edu> wrote:
>
>I am still learning on my own time and have been wondering what hardware/software
>should one have to be able to move from learning to developing? I find
articles
>in VBPJ require one or more servers to "do" the program and learn what is
>"in" the article. Also how does one prove their programming ability in
the
>marketplace??
>
>Thanks
>
>
>
>"simon" <sto@gtisd.com> wrote:
>>Prasad,
>>
>>Thank you very much for your confidence in me (refering to your other post).
>>I was simply voicing off what I have seen, and trying to present a clear
>>view to the people who come after us, such that they won't make the same
>>mistakes, if any, that we and our predecessors had made. It is what this
>>newsgroup is all about (I hope). Bare in mind that any advice given here
>is
>>nothing but the person's point of view and may not apply to you. It is
>>entirely up to you to sort it thru and make your own decision.
>>
>>First of all, I ALWAYS against choosing a career path based SOLELY on what
>>is hot. What is hot today may not be hot tomorrow. Therefore, you could
>>potentially be chasing the rainbow for the pot of gold. Instead, you should
>>concentrate on something that you like, something that you really enjoy
>>doing. The majority of the computer professionals (or at least the people
>I
>>know) work in the computer field with great PASSION, and money is never
>the
>>primary motivation. If you are good at something, money will come
>>automatically.
>>
>>Right now Java is hot, mainly because of the lack of experienced Java
>>developers. I am not anti-Java because I use it myself. However, if people
>>try to tell you that Java is the be-all-and-end-all programming tool, it
>is
>>far from the truth. Java's front end is so slow and inadequate that
>>developers have to bring back the 60s and 70s technique and logics to make
>>it work. The new version of Java is a little better, but still has its
>>deficiency. Tell me something, can you name a commercial software out
there
>>that is done entirely by Java? The answer is none.
>>
>>My point is that there is no such thing as one programming tool is better
>>than another programming tool. Remember that and don't let people fool
>you
>>with that. Every tool has its advantage and disadvantage. Having said
>>that, as a professional developer/programmer, you MUST be proficient in
>more
>>than one language/tool.
>>
>>Learning Java is good, it will enhance your marketability. But learn other
>>languages like C++ and VB also, don't limit yourself. Since you come from
>>the mainframe world, I strongly suggest you to take some classes in Object
>>Oriented Theories and Design. It will strengthen your foundation. To
me,
>>the foundation is VERY VERY important, especially if you do not have a
>>degree in Computer Science. Everything else is going to be built on this
>>foundation. Therefore, DO NOT take short-cut. If you have a strong
>>foundation, it does not matter what tool becomes hot, you can adopt to
it
>>easily without any problem. Unlike those fly-by-the-night programmers
who
>>might have a hard time to change.
>>
>>Last but not least, learning a lot of different tools is great. But be
>>careful not to become a jack-of-all-trades and no expert in anything.
You
>>have to pick something to specialize in, something that will become you
>>bread-and-butter skill, something that you can always fall back to,
>>something that you enjoy programming with. I might be a little bias in
>this
>>one (haha), but I believe the bread-and-butter skill should be C++. If
>you
>>are good in C++, Java is a piece of cake (but not the other way around).
>>
>>Well, it is a long message but I hope you can get something out of it.

>Feel
>>free to ask if you have any more question. Good luck.
>>
>>simon.
>>
>>
>>
>>Prasad <sivapuram_prasad@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:3a107e3b$1@news.devx.com...
>>>
>>> Hi ,
>>> This is prasad posting the request from chicago,USA.
>>> Currently I am working in mainframe.I have been working with this
for
>>> 4 years.Recently I thought to switch from this to opensystems/web
>>related.Can
>>> anybody help or guide me to choose the filed and start studying on this.I
>>> really confused on the current scenario.I had a talk with many people.In
>>> jest what I felt is that
>>> 1) most of the people's career is driven by the employment and not by
>>interests.
>>> 2) Most of the people are getting with one field and continuing with
that
>>> exp and not changing to the latest technologies.
>>> As a beginner i need start from the scratch. I have taken the course
>in
>>> Java,VB and Oracle.I know the concepts and not expert in these.
>>>
>>> Could anybody advice me.Thanks for the time spent in reading my advice.
>>> Thanks
>>> Prasad Sivapuram
>>>
>>
>>
>