VB as a career choice?


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  1. #1
    steve Guest

    VB as a career choice?



    I know this is a sticky topic but what do you think a VB programmer should
    know besides the language?

    SQL ?
    SYBASE?
    XML ?
    Crystal Reports?
    ADO?
    ASP?
    Oracle?

    I don't know what to specialize in if in fact that is a good idea. I'm worried
    about JAVA with it's Swing capabilities could easily replace VB. I'm also
    not sure of MS commimitment on the language since all of it's products seem
    to be moving to the net in five or ten years.

    Any ideas ?

    Steve.


  2. #2
    simon Guest

    Re: VB as a career choice?

    Steve,

    IMHO, if you want to be a GOOD programmer and not a mediocre programmer who
    just getting by, you should know ALL on your list, except Sybase which is
    already dead as a nail. And when I say "know", I mean you are competent
    enough to do the usual tasks with that tools/languages.

    Also, in the technology industry, 5 years IS almost a life time because of
    the rapid change of the landscape!!! Therefore, don't get hung up on what
    is going to happen in 5 to 10 years.

    Hope this helps.

    simon.



    "steve" <steveblue@aol.com> wrote in message
    news:3a23ee5e$1@news.devx.com...
    >
    >
    > I know this is a sticky topic but what do you think a VB programmer should
    > know besides the language?
    >
    > SQL ?
    > SYBASE?
    > XML ?
    > Crystal Reports?
    > ADO?
    > ASP?
    > Oracle?
    >
    > I don't know what to specialize in if in fact that is a good idea. I'm

    worried
    > about JAVA with it's Swing capabilities could easily replace VB. I'm also
    > not sure of MS commimitment on the language since all of it's products

    seem
    > to be moving to the net in five or ten years.
    >
    > Any ideas ?
    >
    > Steve.
    >



  3. #3
    Matthew Cromer Guest

    Re: VB as a career choice?


    "steve" <steveblue@aol.com> wrote:
    >
    >
    >I know this is a sticky topic but what do you think a VB programmer should
    >know besides the language?
    >
    > SQL ?
    > SYBASE?
    > XML ?
    > Crystal Reports?
    > ADO?
    > ASP?
    > Oracle?
    >
    >I don't know what to specialize in if in fact that is a good idea. I'm

    worried
    >about JAVA with it's Swing capabilities could easily replace VB. I'm also
    >not sure of MS commimitment on the language since all of it's products seem
    >to be moving to the net in five or ten years.
    >
    > Any ideas ?
    >
    >Steve.


    I'd suggest you learn Java and Oracle. I do think Java and Oracle will be
    more marketable today and tomorrow than VB.

    Matthew Cromer
    >



  4. #4
    Dave Guest

    Re: VB as a career choice?


    I disagree about Java replacing VB. You seem to be worried about things moving
    to the net. This does not mean the end of Visual Basic. Microsoft is coming
    out with the new .NET technology which is suppose to be the future of web
    and windows applications. VB will be a major player in this new .NET platform.
    The next version of VB is going to be different from all previous versions.
    It will support more of the object-oriented features that VB has been lacking
    (i.e. Inheritance). It looks similar to JAVA, so learning JAVA might not
    be a bad idea. The point is that VB programmers will be in even more demand
    in the near future so I would stick with VB and learn as much as you can
    about the other technologies.
    "Matthew Cromer" <matthew@sdaconsulting.com> wrote:
    >
    >"steve" <steveblue@aol.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>I know this is a sticky topic but what do you think a VB programmer should
    >>know besides the language?
    >>
    >> SQL ?
    >> SYBASE?
    >> XML ?
    >> Crystal Reports?
    >> ADO?
    >> ASP?
    >> Oracle?
    >>
    >>I don't know what to specialize in if in fact that is a good idea. I'm

    >worried
    >>about JAVA with it's Swing capabilities could easily replace VB. I'm also
    >>not sure of MS commimitment on the language since all of it's products

    seem
    >>to be moving to the net in five or ten years.
    >>
    >> Any ideas ?
    >>
    >>Steve.

    >
    >I'd suggest you learn Java and Oracle. I do think Java and Oracle will

    be
    >more marketable today and tomorrow than VB.
    >
    >Matthew Cromer
    >>

    >



  5. #5
    Matthew Cromer Guest

    Re: VB as a career choice?


    "Dave" <dd@dd.com> wrote:
    >
    >I disagree about Java replacing VB. You seem to be worried about things

    moving
    >to the net. This does not mean the end of Visual Basic. Microsoft is coming
    >out with the new .NET technology which is suppose to be the future of web
    >and windows applications. VB will be a major player in this new .NET platform.


    I doubt it. VB is going to be hamstrung in comparison to C# and C++.NET
    . Serious players who plan to do .NET stuff are almost all doing C# stuff,
    not VB.NET.
    VB.NET will have no advantages over C# at all except the syntax will be a
    bit more familiar. Frankly, I moved from VB to Java and found the syntax
    issues a very small concern.


    >The next version of VB is going to be different from all previous versions.


    No kidding. It isn't really VB, it's java with a VBesque syntax.

    >It will support more of the object-oriented features that VB has been lacking
    >(i.e. Inheritance). It looks similar to JAVA, so learning JAVA might not
    >be a bad idea. The point is that VB programmers will be in even more demand
    >in the near future so I would stick with VB and learn as much as you can
    >about the other technologies.


    Why do you claim that VB developers will be in even more demand in the future?
    Because Microsoft is coming out with a new version of its development products
    that is basically a copy of Java that only runs on Windows, and has a VB
    "flavor" to it?

    I fail to see the logic.

    What I see in Java is a cross-platform solution with very wide industry support
    (IBM, Oracle, HP, Sun are major backers). In fact, the only big industry
    player who isn't supporting Java is Microsoft. And they are coming out with
    their own flavor of Java based solidly on their J++ product. Difference
    is, Microsoft's Java technologies are mostly closed, whereas Sun's are more
    open (much of the API source is open, and there are non-sun implementations
    of Java as well. . .). Sure MS is promising to release specs for C# to a
    standards body, but the real issue is the .NET platform APIs. Somehow I
    doubt this will be opensource, much less cross-platform.

    I think Microsoft is really screwing up by thumbing their nose at Java.

    Matthew Cromer

  6. #6
    James Grant Guest

    Re: VB as a career choice?


    "Matthew Cromer" <matthew@sdaconsulting.com> wrote:
    >
    >"Dave" <dd@dd.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>I disagree about Java replacing VB. You seem to be worried about things

    >moving
    >>to the net. This does not mean the end of Visual Basic. Microsoft is coming
    >>out with the new .NET technology which is suppose to be the future of web
    >>and windows applications. VB will be a major player in this new .NET platform.

    >
    >I doubt it. VB is going to be hamstrung in comparison to C# and C++.NET
    > . Serious players who plan to do .NET stuff are almost all doing C# stuff,
    >not VB.NET.
    >VB.NET will have no advantages over C# at all except the syntax will be

    a
    >bit more familiar. Frankly, I moved from VB to Java and found the syntax
    >issues a very small concern.
    >
    >
    >>The next version of VB is going to be different from all previous versions.

    >
    >No kidding. It isn't really VB, it's java with a VBesque syntax.
    >
    >>It will support more of the object-oriented features that VB has been lacking
    >>(i.e. Inheritance). It looks similar to JAVA, so learning JAVA might not
    >>be a bad idea. The point is that VB programmers will be in even more demand
    >>in the near future so I would stick with VB and learn as much as you can
    >>about the other technologies.

    >
    >Why do you claim that VB developers will be in even more demand in the future?
    > Because Microsoft is coming out with a new version of its development products
    >that is basically a copy of Java that only runs on Windows, and has a VB
    >"flavor" to it?
    >
    >I fail to see the logic.
    >
    >What I see in Java is a cross-platform solution with very wide industry

    support
    >(IBM, Oracle, HP, Sun are major backers). In fact, the only big industry
    >player who isn't supporting Java is Microsoft. And they are coming out

    with
    >their own flavor of Java based solidly on their J++ product. Difference
    >is, Microsoft's Java technologies are mostly closed, whereas Sun's are more
    >open (much of the API source is open, and there are non-sun implementations
    >of Java as well. . .). Sure MS is promising to release specs for C# to

    a
    >standards body, but the real issue is the .NET platform APIs. Somehow I
    >doubt this will be opensource, much less cross-platform.
    >
    >I think Microsoft is really screwing up by thumbing their nose at Java.
    >
    >Matthew Crome


    The whole Java/VB issue is a non-issue.

    Companies who have invested in Microsoft will continue to use their products
    and shift on to .Net. Companies that currently use Java will continue to
    do so. Some might change either way, but neither Java or MS developers need
    ever worry about being without work.

    .Net resembles Java, and the point is?

    VB 7 will differ from VB 6 in syntax and variable types.

    VB 6 differs from VB 5 in syntax and variable types.

    The point?

    All Visual Studio languages will share a common MS runtime. Yippeeee.
    This is the main reason VB syntax will change, slightly, and anyone with
    an internet connection can download info on how to prepare.

    The propper answer to your question is, VB is a valid carreer choice.

    VB developers earn less than Java developers.
    VB developers will have to adapt to VB 7 soon, but we had to addapt to VB
    6 not too long ago, and look, we are still here.

    James Grant, MCSD


  7. #7
    Matthew Cromer Guest

    Re: VB as a career choice?


    >
    >The whole Java/VB issue is a non-issue.
    >
    >Companies who have invested in Microsoft will continue to use their products
    >and shift on to .Net.



    Why? Because they love Microsoft? Because they are soft in the head? All
    the companies in my area that were Microsoft-centric have / are either:

    Moved over all new development to Java.

    Are trying out Java on some new projects.

    Have moved over some new development to Java but still do some new development
    in VB.

    Nobody, I mean not one VB centric client, follows into the following category:

    Not interested in Java at all, and haven't tried it.

    Companies that currently use Java will continue to
    >do so. Some might change either way, but neither Java or MS developers need
    >ever worry about being without work.



    "Neither COBOL nor Fortran developers need ever worry about being without
    work." Sorry, you are simply out of touch with the realities of our industry
    to make such statements about technologies that change drastically over 12
    - 18 month timeframes.

    >
    >.Net resembles Java, and the point is?


    "resembles"? Try _IS_ an evolution of Microsofts J++ technology.
    >
    >VB 7 will differ from VB 6 in syntax and variable types.
    >


    Drastically, along with a complete change in object model, DF, and many many
    other changes.

    >VB 6 differs from VB 5 in syntax and variable types.


    Name the differences. Go for it. Describe how a typical VB5 program runs
    under VB6, versus 6 to .NET.
    >
    >The point?


    The point is a billion lines of VB4, 5, 6 code is now deadweight, without
    a future.

    >
    >All Visual Studio languages will share a common MS runtime. Yippeeee.
    >This is the main reason VB syntax will change, slightly, and anyone with
    >an internet connection can download info on how to prepare.


    The amount of change is not only not slight, it is totally unprecedented
    in any "real" computer language.

    As for how to prepare, here is the scenario:

    1. Throw away all complex object models and frameworks
    2. Learn VB.NET or Java, and rewrite all complex code from scratch using
    your completely new .NET or Java platform.



    >
    >The propper answer to your question is, VB is a valid carreer choice.
    >
    >VB developers earn less than Java developers.
    >VB developers will have to adapt to VB 7 soon, but we had to addapt to VB
    >6 not too long ago, and look, we are still here.
    >
    >James Grant, MCSD


    Sorry, you don't get it.

    The difference between 5 and 6 is a crack in the sidewalk. From 6 to dotnet
    is the Grand Canyon. Basically, the only people messed up with 5 to 6 were
    a few API hackers who used multithreading calls.

    Matthew Cromer
    President, SDA Consulting, Inc.


  8. #8
    John Cantley Guest

    Re: VB as a career choice?

    Just have to put in my 2 cents here.

    > Why? Because they love Microsoft? Because they are soft in the head? All
    > the companies in my area that were Microsoft-centric have / are either:


    > Moved over all new development to Java.
    >


    Companies that continue to use Microsoft products are not soft in the head. They have made a huge investment in their technologies
    and will continue to fine tune them. Companies that drop all MS development and move to Java without maintaining and optimizing
    their MS products are soft in the head and not long for this new economy. I have worked for one that did that and now they are
    farming to India and doing no development themselves. They are also laying off like crazy.

    > Are trying out Java on some new projects.
    >
    > Have moved over some new development to Java but still do some new development
    > in VB.


    I agree that exploring technologies is the way to go.


    > Not interested in Java at all, and haven't tried it.
    >


    I am currently assigned to a rather large client that is not interested in Java and won't be in the near future. They are however
    exploring .net and its' capabilities. They are growing at a phenomenal rate and their business is building ecommerce sites for major
    clients, so lots of companies are not rushing to java.

    > "Neither COBOL nor Fortran developers need ever worry about being without
    > work." Sorry, you are simply out of touch with the realities of our industry
    > to make such statements about technologies that change drastically over 12
    > - 18 month timeframes.
    >


    Agree with this. If you don't keep up with technologies/trends then you as a programmer deserve your lot in life.

    I have no comments on the minor differences in the language. I don't have the time to spend learning the specifics. I will however
    spend the time once the release gets nearer. My company makes available all materials regarding the .net framework and development
    is currently done with that framework in mind.

    > >The propper answer to your question is, VB is a valid carreer choice.
    > >
    > >VB developers earn less than Java developers.


    Currently I make more than most Java developers. The main focus here is internet technologies not specific languages. I know how to
    make web apps work, whether that is Java/oracle or VB/c++/any rdbms doesn't matter. As one of my fellow consultants always says,
    'Whatever it takes to put bread on the table." My bread just happens to be 22 grain right now and I will do whatever it takes to
    keep it at that level or better.

    John Cantley




  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1

    Think twice before choosing VB as a language to learn

    Is VB a robust language? You bet it is.
    Is it a more elegant and "pretty-looking" language than C#? Most definetly
    Is it an easier language to review and proof check? A big yes!
    Is it a language worth learning? Not if you want to be the first to learn new technology!

    Uhhhhh?

    June 2008

    MS has introduce a new technology to compete with Adobe Flash/Air called Silverlight 2.0/MFP. The only problem is, if you are a VB programmer, MS cares little about you jumping in at the onset of this technology for the sake of your livelihood. MS is only providing tutorials/webcasts/videos for C# programmers. This irratates me because it gives C# programmers an edge of VB in the marketplace. I have decided to quit MS and move over to Adobe and learn Action Script. I have long been fed up wit MS showing favortism to C# programmers and treating us VB programmers as step-children
    Last edited by Hack; 08-08-2008 at 10:42 AM.

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