looking for entry level job or advice

[Mike]

I'm in a tough situation, my current position is in the civil engineering
field. I make decent money and have a wife and two kids. I'm a undergrad
computer science major with 3 semesters left at the University of Maryland.
The problem is I started with my company as a civil draftsman 3 years ago
and have expressed that I am not interested in the civil engineering aspect
of the company, but the IT division. I have only been given extremely small
pieces of programming and network projects. My company is holding me in my
drafting position although they know how unhappy I am. I have been looking
for a career change opportunity, but unfortunately, because of my family
I can't take a low paying internship without benefits.

I spend just about all of my free time with computers. I have school experience
and a small amount of work experience with VB, C++ and networks. I would
love to be able to work in programming or networking, but don't have the
hands-on experience that most companies want. If anyone can give me some
advice on how to change careers without going bankrupt, I would appreciate
it.

[Elena]

Hi Mike!

Well, you might get different advice from others, but I'll give you my thoughts.


You've already figured out this won't be easy. I think the first thing you
need to do is complete your Bachelor's degree. That's an important credential
for a lot of companies and I'm sure it's sucking up a lot of your free time
(whatever is left over from the wage-earning, child-raising portion of your
life.)

Once you've completed the degree, you can start interviewing with other companies.
However, at that point you might run into resistance because you will want
more than an entry-level salary and have little relevant experience. So
you need to find ways to apply these programming skills. You can look for
nonprofits or other organizations that can't afford to pay for consulting
services and see if you can do some work for them. You could also start
doing that right now but I fear it would bleed time away from your schoolwork
and you don't want to let that slide when you are so close to completion.


During this time, don't stop trying to get whatever programming assignments
you can from your current employer. Even if you do the work on your own
time. It will be important to be able to say in the interview you've done
something other than just study it in class. And who knows, once you actually
COMPLETE your degree, your current employer might be more interested in providing
you with new opportunities. But whatever happens, just don't give up. In
my own career there have been times when I spent YEARS trying to get the
type of work I wanted. It takes patience and persistence.

Good Luck!

[Mike]

Elena,

You mentioned that I could look for nonprofits or other organizations that
can't afford to pay for consulting services and see if you can do some work
for them. I would love to do some of these projects. Do you have any advice
on where to find them. I'm not worried about losing some school time. I currently
have a 4.0 gpa. Working with computers isn't really about money for me. If
it wasn't for my family I wouldn't care about my salary. Thanks for your
advice!

Mike

[IvyS]

Finding a nonprofit organization that could use your help should be pretty
easy, Mike. I'm a member of a couple (unfortunately, I'm in Canada, or I
would pass on your name) that would love to have someone who was willing
to help them out with computer programming. Take a look in your local phone
book or drop by a community center and start calling people; non-profit organizations
usually try to make themselves visible because they know it's the best way
to get more volunteers. It's great if you can go to them with specific ideas,
too, like offering to build them a web site or improve an existing system.

Another suggestion for while you're still in school might be to try and get
into a coop program. My sister and I are both enrolled in coop programs
at our schools, and we've both gotten programming jobs through the coop system.
A lot of universities also sponsor career fairs or have job centers where
students can browse through employer's job postings. If your school doesn't
have one, you can attend one for another school; it's not like they usually
check ID!

Good luck!

IvyS


"Mike" <webworks@engineer.com> wrote:
>
>Elena,
>
>You mentioned that I could look for nonprofits or other organizations that
>can't afford to pay for consulting services and see if you can do some work
>for them. I would love to do some of these projects. Do you have any advice
>on where to find them. I'm not worried about losing some school time. I
currently
>have a 4.0 gpa. Working with computers isn't really about money for me.
If
>it wasn't for my family I wouldn't care about my salary. Thanks for your
>advice!
>
>Mike

[Matthew Cromer]

Mike,

You have two problems to deal with. The first problem is making yourself
attractive as a programming candidate. The second problem is developing
the skills you need to do the job well once you get hired.

The first problem is relatively easy to solve. It would be a good idea for
you to finish the academic program if that's not too difficult. However,
the most important thing is to get paid professional experience in relevant
technologies.

I'd strongly recommend you avoid focusing on VB of any sort. First off,
Microsoft has basically taken "classic" VB out behind the barn and put a
bullet in its brain. The new VB is really just Java with a different syntax
(along with its big brother, C#, which is even more like Java).

Secondly VB has always been the Rodney Dangerfield of computer languages
and VB experience is often a disqualifier for serious programming positions,
because of the bad reputation many self-taught VB hacks have brought to the
language. This is of course totally unfair, there are tons of brilliant
programmers out there who have worked in VB, but it is a real phenomenon
nonetheless and I'd recommend you avoid it as someone trying to break into
the field. I'd recommend strongly that you get experience in Java or C++
or (optionally) C# if you really want to stay in the Microsoft toolset.
Your problem here is C# isn't even out yet, so Java or C++ may be a better
match.

After you have some paid experience, you need to market yourself appropriately.
You are not a newbie--you need to make sure you market yourself as a skilled
professional. Fluff up the resume, not by lying or exaggerating, but simply
stating the facts in the most attractive light possible. Remember the resume
is a marketing document and the most important tool you have for finding
the next opportunity. Notice I said marketing--this does not mean deception
but it does mean presenting the best spin possible. If you wrote a tool
to store some data in a file, rewrite it in XML format, and read it back
in with SAX or DOM. It doesn't matter if the file is five lines long, that's
not the point. Then you can say, truthfully:

"Wrote a dynamic structural analysis simulation using XML and the DOM (or
SAX) parser as a persistent data store."

The alternative that I've seen on many resumes is something like this:

"Wrote a small program to figure out stresses on an iron bar. Program reads
from/to a text file."

Believe me, you don't want the second piece on a resume. Kiss of death or
else the bottom of the barrel as far as salary goes.


At the point where you have some relevant paid experience and have dressed
it up to the best possible effect, you have a good shot at landing some kind
of mid-level programming role. Before you go out and try to land it, you
need to make sure you are capable of delivering satisfaction to your employer.
I'd recommend you learn some basic skills and write code that uses these
skills.

Database: either SQL server or Oracle. Create some tables, query them, figure
out how to do joins and even write a small stored procedure or two. Oracle
is free for developers from the web site and is much more widely used in
the industry, but it is a definite challenge.

XML: This is the up and coming standard, and it's hot, and useful to boot.
All configuration files should now be written in XML, IMO, as well as things
like data migration files, etc.

Source code control: Know how this works and be able to drive at least one
of the top names such as Rational Clearcase or Microsoft VSS.

Read Steve McConnell's book "Code Complete". You need to know and understand
this book, especially the points on naming conventions, choosing good names,
etc. These are key to effective programming in a team environment.

Magazines: You should subscribe to a programming journal or three, just
to keep up on professional trends, programming techniques, technologies,
etc.

Familiarity: Make sure you are reasonably familiar with your chosen tool,
compiler, and IDE if any. Be able to use it efficiently and effectively.

OOP: This is a key concept to modern software projects. Design some real
classes for actual programming tasks. Make sure you can write custom container
classes for your business objects. Know how to write an iterator method
or expose an iteration interface.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. Hope that helps.

Matthew Cromer
President, SDA Consulting, Inc.

[simon]

Also, some schools solicit local businesses for projects so that the
students can get real-life experience. In my last semester, the graduating
class was divided into teams and we got a project to redesign and re-program
the computer system of a local company. They got free labor and we got
experience..... excellent deal.

You can look into something like that, or make suggestion to your professor.
Hope this helps.

simon.



"IvyS" <eightivy@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3a92bf61$1@news.devx.com...
>
> Finding a nonprofit organization that could use your help should be pretty
> easy, Mike. I'm a member of a couple (unfortunately, I'm in Canada, or I
> would pass on your name) that would love to have someone who was willing
> to help them out with computer programming. Take a look in your local
phone
> book or drop by a community center and start calling people; non-profit
organizations
> usually try to make themselves visible because they know it's the best way
> to get more volunteers. It's great if you can go to them with specific
ideas,
> too, like offering to build them a web site or improve an existing system.
>
> Another suggestion for while you're still in school might be to try and
get
> into a coop program. My sister and I are both enrolled in coop programs
> at our schools, and we've both gotten programming jobs through the coop
system.
> A lot of universities also sponsor career fairs or have job centers where
> students can browse through employer's job postings. If your school
doesn't
> have one, you can attend one for another school; it's not like they
usually
> check ID!
>
> Good luck!
>
> IvyS
>
>
> "Mike" <webworks@engineer.com> wrote:
> >
> >Elena,
> >
> >You mentioned that I could look for nonprofits or other organizations
that
> >can't afford to pay for consulting services and see if you can do some
work
> >for them. I would love to do some of these projects. Do you have any
advice
> >on where to find them. I'm not worried about losing some school time. I
> currently
> >have a 4.0 gpa. Working with computers isn't really about money for me.
> If
> >it wasn't for my family I wouldn't care about my salary. Thanks for your
> >advice!
> >
> >Mike
>

[David K.]

Mike:

You may want to check out the placement office at U. of M. to see if they
can give you any leads. There are a lot of companies who have special recruiting
programs targetted to college students. With Maryland's reputation in Computer
Science, I'm sure there must be companies doing on-campus recruiting there.
I worked in the Baltimore area for 3 years, and I know that their grads
were very well respected.

In the meantime, definitely keep trying to add any computer-related work
to your resume. Also, you may want to try to find a I.T. position where
you can leverage your civil engineering skills (ex: programming on a civil
engineering-related application). In that type of position, you can leverage
your "old" skills while getting experience in new ones. You will have a
distinct advantage over the average programmer who doesn't know anything
about the application. (Too bad your current employer isn't smart enough
to realize that).

It sounds like you have a lot of enthusiasm about computers, so that in itself
will help you land a job!

"Mike" <webworks@engineer.com> wrote:
>
>I'm in a tough situation, my current position is in the civil engineering
>field. I make decent money and have a wife and two kids. I'm a undergrad
>computer science major with 3 semesters left at the University of Maryland.
>The problem is I started with my company as a civil draftsman 3 years ago
>and have expressed that I am not interested in the civil engineering aspect
>of the company, but the IT division. I have only been given extremely small
>pieces of programming and network projects. My company is holding me in
my
>drafting position although they know how unhappy I am. I have been looking
>for a career change opportunity, but unfortunately, because of my family
>I can't take a low paying internship without benefits.
>
>I spend just about all of my free time with computers. I have school experience
>and a small amount of work experience with VB, C++ and networks. I would
>love to be able to work in programming or networking, but don't have the
>hands-on experience that most companies want. If anyone can give me some
>advice on how to change careers without going bankrupt, I would appreciate
>it.
>

[Elena]

Looks like several other people have already given some excellent suggestions
for finding volunteer work. I'll just throw in a few more:

There are numerous websites that offer "virtual volunteering" opportunities.
Here are two:

www.guidestar.org/classifieds/ms_sbn.adp
www.volunteermatch.org

Also, if you start at www.redcross.org, you can find a local chapter near
your home - - they also know of volunteer opportunities for tech people.


Elena

[john]

"Mike" <webworks@engineer.com> wrote:
>
>Elena,
>
>You mentioned that I could look for nonprofits or other organizations that
>can't afford to pay for consulting services and see if you can do some work
>for them. I would love to do some of these projects. Do you have any advice
>on where to find them. I'm not worried about losing some school time. I
currently
>have a 4.0 gpa. Working with computers isn't really about money for me.
If
>it wasn't for my family I wouldn't care about my salary. Thanks for your
>advice!
>
>Mike

Try http://www.iitri.org They are a non profit and they are always looking
for programmers. Pay is not so good, but they have interesting work.

[Pierre G. Boutquin]

"Matthew Cromer" <matthew@sdaconsulting.com> wrote in message
news:3a92eb49$1@news.devx.com...

<Excellent advice snipped/>

> OOP: This is a key concept to modern software projects.

In this area, you need to learn about UML and design patterns.

I'd also make sure you know about the programming fundamentals (data
structures) and perhaps also database design.

Furthermore, I'd like to emphasise honesty in your resume. After
interviewing a large number of candidates, I am amazed of how much
exageration seems to be going on. (I let candidates program during an
interview, so I have no trouble diagnosing exageration!)

<Pierre/>