IMHO

[Michael]

I think the real problem for an entry level person to find a position is not
due to market saturation. What I find in people who complain about the difficulty
in finding a position is they have unrealistic expectations about what to
expect. Before a doctor can demand a high salary, he/she has to finish an
internship (regardless of how skilled that person might be). In the same
way, a company expects an IT professional to pay his/her dues before they
can ask for $60k a year.

A company looking for new hires in today's market is usually looking for
either help desk/mainframers or high level programmers with a few years under
their belts. If you can find an internship while pursuing your degree, that
should be the same company you return to after you finish. They already
know your skills and will offer you a pretty good entry-level salary. My
first job out of school was as a network assistant paying $37k. I busted
my butt, found a mentor in the company, and moved my way into a programming
position. I then branched out into consulting, with networking and programming
under my belt, I was able to find contracts easily with a number of companies.

"Dee" <travisdaniel@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>"Frustrated IT Worker" <frustrated@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>Miguel,
>>
>>Are you referring to the URL I posted? If so, you need to understand that
>>the article is pointing out what many people (including IT workers) don't
>>know about the IT industry. For example, I constantly read articles with
>>topics such as "we need to get more young people interested in computer
>science".
>>The problem is that there are bunch of recent computer graduates who have
>>even have earned a certification in Java programming from SUN, yet they
>still
>>can't find an entry-level job after searching for months! If you don't
believe
>>me then just say so and I will post the URLs to a few Java forums and let
>>you decide for yourself whether what I am telling is correct or not.
>>
>>I think that you may need to re-read the article since it has a lot to
say
>>about how much of the IT industry really works. Re-training experienced
>IT
>>workers is only a small aspect of what that particular article was talking
>>about.
>>
>>There are a lot of barriers and catch-22's in the IT industry. The bottom
>>line is that the IT industry is still a young and very dysfunctional field.
>>
>>
>>Btw, working in IT is much more than just knowing the latest and greatest
>>technologies. If you require further clarification on something that the
>>article discussed just ask a specific question and I am sure somebody here
>>will answer your question in greater detail.
>>
>>
>>"Miguel Angel Gonzalez" <miguelangelglz@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>I recently graduated with a BSCS and was offered 48k. If there is not a
shortage
>of programmers, then why are fortune 500 companies offering high salaries
>for people with no experience.

[Ian Hossie]

"Klaus H. Probst" <kprobst@vbbox.com> wrote:
>

>Hate to break the news, but a CS degree, a doctorate and 57 certifications
>do not automagically turn you into a capable developer. All that means is
>you can read and write. Companies *today* I believe are strengthening >their
filters, so they are of course finding less people. That's because >there's
a shortage of capable, professional developers. Not a shortage of >"IT personnel".

Then what exactly does turn you into a competent developer? What is this
magic quality that sets the wheat apart from the chaff?

>Posts like this (and from a few other people in this forum) reflect the
>sad fact that so many people thought they could get a 75K+ salary >straight
out of school if they were able to spell "HTML". The reality -->thank heavens--is
very different. The media and IT industry both have a >lot of blame in this.
But now all those companies that hired >"programmers" and "web designers"
and "content managers" are getting rid >of the fluff and keeping the quality,
and rightly so.

Which means that the next in line to go are going to be the 'competent ones'
with less experience. Or the older programmers who have salary requirements
that are too high.

>All this can only benefit you if you are in a position of strength in your
career or chosen >area of professional development. That is, if you know
what you're doing.

No, this can benefit you if you're among those that survive. I suspect you're
going to find that once the labour pool shrinks to a certain point, there
are going to be fewer and fewer project for the 'competent' programmers to
work on. And if the demand isn't there, your skill level is going to matter
very much. Especially if there are thousands of others out there just like
you.

Incidentally, regardless of whether or not you have what it 'takes' to be
a programmer (and oh God, when did when programmers become the IT equivalent
of the Marine Corps), if you don't have the experience, you aren't going
to survive. Period.


>It's called "natural selection".
>

Funny, I call it a guaranteed way to reduce job opportunities overall. Even
for the chosen few.

Ian Hossie