Stick with Microsoft


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Thread: Stick with Microsoft

  1. #1
    Peter Z. Guest

    Stick with Microsoft


    Dear Muhammad,

    If you want to chasing the money, move to Java. If you like to have fun
    playing technology, Microsoft technology is the place. I am a Senior Software
    Engineer using Microsoft tools. I never even think of switch to Java even
    though I can learn it very quickly.

    Microsoft will win the game, I am very confident. If you attend VBITS conference,
    you will understand what I said. Check the stock price ( SUNW+ORCL and MSFT).

    Many programmers are chasing the money. Many simply take some courses and
    claim themselves to be a programmer! Yes, they can earn big money for a
    whole. But what about right now ? I bet many lousy "programmers" are losing
    their jobs.

    My goal is to do a great job with great developing tools. Money is not that
    important for me. I will not exchange fun for money. Remember, if you don't
    like the job(including the tools), you can never do a good job and the money
    that follows.

    Microsoft is doing some crazy things that will finally push Java to the corner.
    They are trying to integrate the whole internet into a internet OS. .Net
    is a deadly weapon. So far you can not find anything competitive from SUN
    or Oracle. They are way way behind. Microsoft has tons of money for R&D
    and they don't care the stock price drop from 80 to 40. They have a whole
    line of products that provide continuous cash flow. What about Oracle, SUN
    ? Try to compare the percentage of price drop and you can tell which company
    is more strong.

    Enjoy your work. Play with .Net right now. Your "rich" colleague will come
    to you later asking you to give him a .Net course so that he can be a .Net
    "expert" overnight! HaHaHa...

    Regards,

    Peter Z.




  2. #2
    Matthew Cromer Guest

    Re: Stick with Microsoft


    "Peter Z." <zhupeter@usa.net> wrote:
    >
    >Dear Muhammad,
    >
    >If you want to chasing the money, move to Java. If you like to have fun
    >playing technology, Microsoft technology is the place.


    Yeah, I have *TONS* of fun dealing with


    I am a Senior Software
    >Engineer using Microsoft tools. I never even think of switch to Java even
    >though I can learn it very quickly.


    I am a software architect and developer who has worked with both technologies
    very extensively (unlike you).

    The MS stuff runs on only one platform. The current (COM-based) MS stuff
    is an absolute nightmare re: COM interface changes and deployment. MS seems
    to have the attitude that your programming interfaces will never need to
    change. Ha. Java interfaces can change with no problem--when you change
    VB/COM interfaces, you end up with a nightmare of regclean / recompile /
    check binary compatibility dlls, etc. etc. etc.

    >
    >Microsoft will win the game, I am very confident. If you attend VBITS conference,
    >you will understand what I said.


    So you have to go to VBITS and drink the coolaid to believe?

    >Check the stock price ( SUNW+ORCL and MSFT).


    What does this have to do with anything? All of the wildly overpriced tech
    stocks have corrected massively. MSFT never got as wildly overpriced because
    of the DOJ lawsuit. Your point?

    >
    >Many programmers are chasing the money. Many simply take some courses and
    >claim themselves to be a programmer! Yes, they can earn big money for a
    >whole. But what about right now ? I bet many lousy "programmers" are losing
    >their jobs.


    What does this have to do with MS vs. Java?

    >
    >My goal is to do a great job with great developing tools. Money is not

    that
    >important for me. I will not exchange fun for money. Remember, if you don't
    >like the job(including the tools), you can never do a good job and the money
    >that follows.


    Unlike you, I've used both sets extensively. Guess what--the Java tools
    are on the whole just as good as the MS tools.

    >
    >Microsoft is doing some crazy things that will finally push Java to the

    corner.
    > They are trying to integrate the whole internet into a internet OS. .Net
    >is a deadly weapon.


    How can I argue with your logical tour-de-force?

    So far you can not find anything competitive from SUN
    >or Oracle. They are way way behind.


    Geez, java has been out, what, almost 6 years now? And WHEN is DotNet (a
    copy of Java) going to be released? Who is behind?

    Microsoft has tons of money for R&D
    >and they don't care the stock price drop from 80 to 40. They have a whole
    >line of products that provide continuous cash flow. What about Oracle,

    SUN
    >? Try to compare the percentage of price drop and you can tell which company
    >is more strong.


    Yeah, that's right. Oracle and Sun are about to run out of cash to pay their
    bills. Larry had to hock his F15 and is now sitting out by the freeway with
    a tin cup and a sign "will work for food".

    >
    >Enjoy your work.


    I do enjoy working with Java. Kicks COM ***. Which is why MS copied Java
    to make DotNet.

    Play with .Net right now. Your "rich" colleague will come
    >to you later asking you to give him a .Net course so that he can be a .Net
    >"expert" overnight!


    Anyone who knows Java will have absolutely no trouble with DotNet.

    Matthew Cromer
    President, SDA Consulting, Inc.

  3. #3
    David K. Guest

    Re: Stick with Microsoft


    "Peter Z." <zhupeter@usa.net> wrote:
    >If you want to chasing the money, move to Java. If you like to have fun
    >playing technology, Microsoft technology is the place.


    I'm curious. What makes Microsoft "fun" and Java "not fun"?

    Also, why do you think .NET will overtake Java? What do you see in your
    crystal ball that makes you so certain that Java programmers will come crawling
    back to .NET? I'm not saying that your right or wrong. I honestly don't
    know the answer to that question. My feeling is that there is room for both
    of them, since there are enough "anything-but-Microsoft" people to keep it
    around, but like all opinions, it's worth the price you paid for it (i.e.
    think cow dung!)

    Personally, I don't think it's a bad idea just to learn both!


  4. #4
    Richard Guest

    Re: Stick with Microsoft


    "David K." <davidk@nospam.com> wrote:
    >I'm not saying that your right or wrong. I honestly don't
    >know the answer to that question. My feeling is that there is room for

    both
    >of them, since there are enough "anything-but-Microsoft" people to keep

    it
    >around, but like all opinions, it's worth the price you paid for it (i.e.
    >think cow dung!)
    >
    >Personally, I don't think it's a bad idea just to learn both!
    >


    About time somebody put a note of sanity into this love/hate Microsoft/anything-else.
    We use what works and what the clients ask for.

  5. #5
    Raj Guest

    Re: Stick with Microsoft


    Dear Mr.Cromer,

    I do partially agree with your points. But the way in which you tell these
    things are not in a good manner. After all this is not a place to show your
    ARROGANCE!!!

    One more thing, whether you are an expert or architect of things like Java
    or MS things,or president of some %#$@% company.. who cares, this is not
    a place to show your arrogance.

    Raj



  6. #6
    Matthew Cromer Guest

    Re: Stick with Microsoft


    "Raj " <iunknwn@mail.com> wrote:
    >
    >Dear Mr.Cromer,
    >
    >I do partially agree with your points. But the way in which you tell these
    >things are not in a good manner. After all this is not a place to show your
    >ARROGANCE!!!
    >
    >One more thing, whether you are an expert or architect of things like Java
    >or MS things,or president of some %#$@% company.. who cares, this is not
    >a place to show your arrogance.
    >
    >Raj


    Raj,

    I think the fact that someone is successful or not at what they are doing
    is a bit relevant to the careers.advice forum. After all, people are coming
    to careers.advice because they want to improve their careers. I would suggest
    that people who are doing relatively well might have something to contribute,
    and it might be relevant to know that someone is doing well or not with their
    career when deciding whether or not to take their advice. Not everyone's
    advice is worth following, not by a long shot. This isn't a game. This
    is real life, and I'm here to find ideas about how to improve my career and
    help others. I sure wish I had known ten years ago what I know today--it
    would have meant a huge difference in how long it took me to get where I
    am today.

    Matthew Cromer



  7. #7
    Sean Guest

    Re: Stick with Microsoft


    Couldn't have said it better myself Mathew. Cheers!

    Sean.

    "Matthew Cromer" <matthew@sdaconsulting.com> wrote:
    >
    >"Peter Z." <zhupeter@usa.net> wrote:
    >>
    >>Dear Muhammad,
    >>
    >>If you want to chasing the money, move to Java. If you like to have fun
    >>playing technology, Microsoft technology is the place.

    >
    >Yeah, I have *TONS* of fun dealing with
    >
    >
    > I am a Senior Software
    >>Engineer using Microsoft tools. I never even think of switch to Java even
    >>though I can learn it very quickly.

    >
    >I am a software architect and developer who has worked with both technologies
    >very extensively (unlike you).
    >
    >The MS stuff runs on only one platform. The current (COM-based) MS stuff
    >is an absolute nightmare re: COM interface changes and deployment. MS seems
    >to have the attitude that your programming interfaces will never need to
    >change. Ha. Java interfaces can change with no problem--when you change
    >VB/COM interfaces, you end up with a nightmare of regclean / recompile /
    >check binary compatibility dlls, etc. etc. etc.
    >
    >>
    >>Microsoft will win the game, I am very confident. If you attend VBITS

    conference,
    >>you will understand what I said.

    >
    >So you have to go to VBITS and drink the coolaid to believe?
    >
    >>Check the stock price ( SUNW+ORCL and MSFT).

    >
    >What does this have to do with anything? All of the wildly overpriced tech
    >stocks have corrected massively. MSFT never got as wildly overpriced because
    >of the DOJ lawsuit. Your point?
    >
    >>
    >>Many programmers are chasing the money. Many simply take some courses

    and
    >>claim themselves to be a programmer! Yes, they can earn big money for

    a
    >>whole. But what about right now ? I bet many lousy "programmers" are

    losing
    >>their jobs.

    >
    >What does this have to do with MS vs. Java?
    >
    >>
    >>My goal is to do a great job with great developing tools. Money is not

    >that
    >>important for me. I will not exchange fun for money. Remember, if you

    don't
    >>like the job(including the tools), you can never do a good job and the

    money
    >>that follows.

    >
    >Unlike you, I've used both sets extensively. Guess what--the Java tools
    >are on the whole just as good as the MS tools.
    >
    >>
    >>Microsoft is doing some crazy things that will finally push Java to the

    >corner.
    >> They are trying to integrate the whole internet into a internet OS. .Net
    >>is a deadly weapon.

    >
    >How can I argue with your logical tour-de-force?
    >
    > So far you can not find anything competitive from SUN
    >>or Oracle. They are way way behind.

    >
    >Geez, java has been out, what, almost 6 years now? And WHEN is DotNet (a
    >copy of Java) going to be released? Who is behind?
    >
    > Microsoft has tons of money for R&D
    >>and they don't care the stock price drop from 80 to 40. They have a whole
    >>line of products that provide continuous cash flow. What about Oracle,

    >SUN
    >>? Try to compare the percentage of price drop and you can tell which company
    >>is more strong.

    >
    >Yeah, that's right. Oracle and Sun are about to run out of cash to pay

    their
    >bills. Larry had to hock his F15 and is now sitting out by the freeway

    with
    >a tin cup and a sign "will work for food".
    >
    >>
    >>Enjoy your work.

    >
    >I do enjoy working with Java. Kicks COM ***. Which is why MS copied Java
    >to make DotNet.
    >
    > Play with .Net right now. Your "rich" colleague will come
    >>to you later asking you to give him a .Net course so that he can be a .Net
    >>"expert" overnight!

    >
    >Anyone who knows Java will have absolutely no trouble with DotNet.
    >
    >Matthew Cromer
    >President, SDA Consulting, Inc.



  8. #8
    Jae Cha Guest

    Re: Stick with Microsoft


    Agree with you that Java is a great step towards a best approach Object Oriented
    language, but I don't think any of us can truly back you up when you say
    that Java has great tools. Compared to the Visual Studio, most Java tools
    are toys.

    Jae Cha
    Certified Java Programmer
    "Matthew Cromer" <matthew@sdaconsulting.com> wrote:
    >
    >"Peter Z." <zhupeter@usa.net> wrote:
    >>
    >>Dear Muhammad,
    >>
    >>If you want to chasing the money, move to Java. If you like to have fun
    >>playing technology, Microsoft technology is the place.

    >
    >Yeah, I have *TONS* of fun dealing with
    >
    >
    > I am a Senior Software
    >>Engineer using Microsoft tools. I never even think of switch to Java even
    >>though I can learn it very quickly.

    >
    >I am a software architect and developer who has worked with both technologies
    >very extensively (unlike you).
    >
    >The MS stuff runs on only one platform. The current (COM-based) MS stuff
    >is an absolute nightmare re: COM interface changes and deployment. MS seems
    >to have the attitude that your programming interfaces will never need to
    >change. Ha. Java interfaces can change with no problem--when you change
    >VB/COM interfaces, you end up with a nightmare of regclean / recompile /
    >check binary compatibility dlls, etc. etc. etc.
    >
    >>
    >>Microsoft will win the game, I am very confident. If you attend VBITS

    conference,
    >>you will understand what I said.

    >
    >So you have to go to VBITS and drink the coolaid to believe?
    >
    >>Check the stock price ( SUNW+ORCL and MSFT).

    >
    >What does this have to do with anything? All of the wildly overpriced tech
    >stocks have corrected massively. MSFT never got as wildly overpriced because
    >of the DOJ lawsuit. Your point?
    >
    >>
    >>Many programmers are chasing the money. Many simply take some courses

    and
    >>claim themselves to be a programmer! Yes, they can earn big money for

    a
    >>whole. But what about right now ? I bet many lousy "programmers" are

    losing
    >>their jobs.

    >
    >What does this have to do with MS vs. Java?
    >
    >>
    >>My goal is to do a great job with great developing tools. Money is not

    >that
    >>important for me. I will not exchange fun for money. Remember, if you

    don't
    >>like the job(including the tools), you can never do a good job and the

    money
    >>that follows.

    >
    >Unlike you, I've used both sets extensively. Guess what--the Java tools
    >are on the whole just as good as the MS tools.
    >
    >>
    >>Microsoft is doing some crazy things that will finally push Java to the

    >corner.
    >> They are trying to integrate the whole internet into a internet OS. .Net
    >>is a deadly weapon.

    >
    >How can I argue with your logical tour-de-force?
    >
    > So far you can not find anything competitive from SUN
    >>or Oracle. They are way way behind.

    >
    >Geez, java has been out, what, almost 6 years now? And WHEN is DotNet (a
    >copy of Java) going to be released? Who is behind?
    >
    > Microsoft has tons of money for R&D
    >>and they don't care the stock price drop from 80 to 40. They have a whole
    >>line of products that provide continuous cash flow. What about Oracle,

    >SUN
    >>? Try to compare the percentage of price drop and you can tell which company
    >>is more strong.

    >
    >Yeah, that's right. Oracle and Sun are about to run out of cash to pay

    their
    >bills. Larry had to hock his F15 and is now sitting out by the freeway

    with
    >a tin cup and a sign "will work for food".
    >
    >>
    >>Enjoy your work.

    >
    >I do enjoy working with Java. Kicks COM ***. Which is why MS copied Java
    >to make DotNet.
    >
    > Play with .Net right now. Your "rich" colleague will come
    >>to you later asking you to give him a .Net course so that he can be a .Net
    >>"expert" overnight!

    >
    >Anyone who knows Java will have absolutely no trouble with DotNet.
    >
    >Matthew Cromer
    >President, SDA Consulting, Inc.



  9. #9
    Matthew Cromer Guest

    Re: Stick with Microsoft


    "Jae Cha" <jcha@transmuto.com> wrote:
    >
    >Agree with you that Java is a great step towards a best approach Object

    Oriented
    >language, but I don't think any of us can truly back you up when you say
    >that Java has great tools. Compared to the Visual Studio, most Java tools
    >are toys.


    Why do you say this?

    I certainly think the Forte IDE is as good as the VB IDE. It is absolutely
    more stable for us--never crashes, whereas our VB IDE goes down more often
    than a drowning man. It definitely has more features. It is a bit clunkier
    to drive, but since it has far more features I can understand that. It takes
    longer to load and paint, but compiles are much faster.

    Which IDE are you talking about (VC++?) and why is it better than the Java
    tools?

    Matthew Cromer

  10. #10
    Miguel Angel Gonzalez Guest

    Re: Stick with Microsoft


    "Matthew Cromer" <matthew@sdaconsulting.com> wrote:
    >
    >Why do you say this?
    >
    >I certainly think the Forte IDE is as good as the VB IDE. It is absolutely


    Dont u think that 128 RAM is a HUGE memory requirement(and dont go for memory
    prices are cheaper everyday, have in mind that java developers community
    is around the world, and there are countries where even a PC with PII and
    64RAM is a luxury for developers) to have an IDE for Java? as far as I know
    almost any IDE for Java has that level of requirements. It seeems to much
    for me. And... anticipating part of ur response...yes, VS.NET will have the
    same req. more or less, but the point here is that comparing the current
    VB IDE(works perfectly fine with 64RAM) vs. Forte there's a lot of difference
    against Java IDE's. Maybe is as good as VB IDE (in terms of what?) but IT
    demands a lot more resources than VB development. If you judge the IDE's
    goodness in terms of... the less that requires me, the more that I can do
    with this, the more that relief my work efforts, the more productive that
    I am using it, then Java Forte could not be exactly the super IDE for a java
    developer.

    And I think that Jae refers to working with line commands isnt fun at all,
    and I agree. Lot of people comes from those times where the only way to make
    a program compiles was using line commands and as far as i know all they
    always dreamed with an IDE to relief their pains doing it in this way. So,
    i say this anticipating your possible answer saying that for people like
    you is FUN working with line commands, BTW if that were so fun IDEs will
    never came up, so please, lets be honest, nowadays developing without IDEs
    it's NOT fun, and decreases the developers's productivity.


    >more stable for us--never crashes, whereas our VB IDE goes down more often
    >than a drowning man. It definitely has more features. It is a bit


    Abt crashing VB IDE...well I've been working with VB since '94 and I've just
    noted actual unstability in VB4, specially if u installed support for 16
    and 32 bits dev. on the same machine. And I think that if you ask to VB developers
    community you will see that, in general terms, the stability has improved
    a lot since those days and personally I can hardly remember when was the
    last time my VB6 IDE crashes. And much of this crashing problems are due
    to wrong built third-party products, components, setup, etc. (specially faulty
    setup programs that overwrites essential files like dll's, common COM components,
    DB libraries, etc.)

    The other part it's related with the order used when you install (most people
    dont read the instructions before proceed) more products or SP's on the machines.

    It's very easy say such things like that "This works for me, and this doesnt",
    specially if it's a product or technology that doesnt like me. Anyone can
    say the same abt java tools for example, so I think that it's very important
    be honest when someone gives an opinion and try to be objective. I mean...
    the VB IDE that crashes too much for YOU maybe say too much abt your knowledge
    or ability (or lack of) to do a good job when you installed the tools. Let
    me put it in this way, if I install Forte (or another Java IDE) not following
    the recommendations and instructions, I think that very probably I'll end
    with a faulty Forte IDE installation and would be very easy for me to say
    things like....
    "VB IDE is more stable for us--never crashes, whereas our Java FORTE IDE
    goes down more often than a drowning man."

    clunkier
    >to drive, but since it has far more features I can understand that. It


    takes
    >longer to load and paint, but compiles are much faster.
    >


    You see? everything in this life has tradeoffs, nothing can be considered
    absolut good and above at all, neither Microsoft or Java.

    >Which IDE are you talking about (VC++?) and why is it better than the Java
    >tools?


    I conclude here, I think that Jae finished saying that "Compared to the Visual
    Studio, most Java tools are toys." not saying that Visual Studio IDE's are
    better than Java Tools.



  11. #11
    Matthew Cromer Guest

    Re: Stick with Microsoft


    "Miguel Angel Gonzalez" <miguelangelglz@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >"Matthew Cromer" <matthew@sdaconsulting.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>Why do you say this?
    >>
    >>I certainly think the Forte IDE is as good as the VB IDE. It is absolutely

    >
    >Dont u think that 128 RAM is a HUGE memory requirement(and dont go for memory
    >prices are cheaper everyday, have in mind that java developers community
    >is around the world, and there are countries where even a PC with PII and
    >64RAM is a luxury for developers) to have an IDE for Java? as far as I know
    >almost any IDE for Java has that level of requirements. It seeems to much
    >for me. And... anticipating part of ur response...yes, VS.NET will have

    the
    >same req. more or less, but the point here is that comparing the current
    >VB IDE(works perfectly fine with 64RAM) vs. Forte there's a lot of difference
    >against Java IDE's.


    You gave the answer in your post: the DotNet environment requires the same
    resources ad Forte. VB6 is less, yes, but it came out THREE YEARS AGO!
    Gimme a break!

    Maybe is as good as VB IDE (in terms of what?) but IT
    >demands a lot more resources than VB development.


    YOu are comparing the latest version of Forte (released three months ago)
    versus VB6 (released three years ago!!!). The proper comparison is with
    the VS.NET IDE, which has comparable requirements.

    If you judge the IDE's
    >goodness in terms of... the less that requires me, the more that I can do
    >with this, the more that relief my work efforts, the more productive that
    >I am using it, then Java Forte could not be exactly the super IDE for a

    java
    >developer.



    Because it required 128MB to be usable? You can buy 128MB for $70 or so.
    >
    >And I think that Jae refers to working with line commands isnt fun at all,
    >and I agree. Lot of people comes from those times where the only way to

    make
    >a program compiles was using line commands and as far as i know all they
    >always dreamed with an IDE to relief their pains doing it in this way. So,
    >i say this anticipating your possible answer saying that for people like
    >you is FUN working with line commands, BTW if that were so fun IDEs will
    >never came up, so please, lets be honest, nowadays developing without IDEs
    >it's NOT fun, and decreases the developers's productivity.


    I'm baffled. I just named a FREE IDE for Java, and now you are complaining
    about the lack of Java IDEs. Hmmn last time I checked you had to PAY MONEY
    for the visual studio / VB6 IDEs.
    >
    >
    >>more stable for us--never crashes, whereas our VB IDE goes down more often
    >>than a drowning man. It definitely has more features. It is a bit

    >
    >Abt crashing VB IDE...well I've been working with VB since '94 and I've

    just
    >noted actual unstability in VB4, specially if u installed support for 16
    >and 32 bits dev. on the same machine. And I think that if you ask to VB

    developers
    >community you will see that, in general terms, the stability has improved
    >a lot since those days and personally I can hardly remember when was the
    >last time my VB6 IDE crashes.


    You obviously don't do multi-project loading and debugging in your IDEs.

    And much of this crashing problems are due
    >to wrong built third-party products, components, setup, etc. (specially

    faulty
    >setup programs that overwrites essential files like dll's, common COM components,
    >DB libraries, etc.)


    The Java stuff doesn't have these problems.

    >
    >The other part it's related with the order used when you install (most people
    >dont read the instructions before proceed) more products or SP's on the

    machines.

    More MS *&^^ you don't have to deal with using Java.

    >
    >It's very easy say such things like that "This works for me, and this doesnt",
    >specially if it's a product or technology that doesnt like me. Anyone can
    >say the same abt java tools for example, so I think that it's very important
    >be honest when someone gives an opinion and try to be objective. I mean...
    >the VB IDE that crashes too much for YOU maybe say too much abt your knowledge
    >or ability (or lack of) to do a good job when you installed the tools.


    Now you are blaming ME for DLL ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    ROFLMAO!

    Hint, one big impetus to move to DotNet is to get rid of or at least mitigate
    DLL ****.


    Let
    >me put it in this way, if I install Forte (or another Java IDE) not following
    >the recommendations and instructions, I think that very probably I'll end
    >with a faulty Forte IDE installation and would be very easy for me to say
    >things like....
    >"VB IDE is more stable for us--never crashes, whereas our Java FORTE IDE
    >goes down more often than a drowning man."


    Now you are assuming I don't follow the directions. Are you using psychic
    powers to determine this?

    >
    >clunkier
    >>to drive, but since it has far more features I can understand that. It

    >
    >takes
    >>longer to load and paint, but compiles are much faster.
    >>

    >
    >You see? everything in this life has tradeoffs, nothing can be considered
    >absolut good and above at all, neither Microsoft or Java.


    Right. You can have an IDE that repaints more slowly, or an IDE that creates
    DLL **** software. Take your pick.
    >
    >>Which IDE are you talking about (VC++?) and why is it better than the Java
    >>tools?

    >
    >I conclude here, I think that Jae finished saying that "Compared to the

    Visual
    >Studio, most Java tools are toys." not saying that Visual Studio IDE's are
    >better than Java Tools.
    >


    So now the Java tools are "toys" but VS is not better. Right.

    Matthew Cromer


  12. #12
    Miguel Angel Gonzalez Guest

    Re: Stick with Microsoft


    "Matthew Cromer" <matthew@sdaconsulting.com> wrote:
    >
    >You gave the answer in your post: the DotNet environment requires the same
    >resources ad Forte. VB6 is less, yes, but it came out THREE YEARS AGO!


    >Gimme a break!


    Man u started doing this comparision in your reply to Jae, not me ok? so
    you
    own me a break uh? =)

    "I certainly think the Forte IDE is as good as the VB IDE.
    It is absolutely more stable for us--never crashes, whereas our VB IDE
    goes down more often than a drowning man."

    I asume u r talking abt VB 6 IDE, 'cause I suppose that would be very unfair
    comparing a Beta VB NET IDE, which certainly and very problably could be
    crashing more often than a drowning man.

    >
    >YOu are comparing the latest version of Forte (released three months ago)
    >versus VB6 (released three years ago!!!). The proper comparison is with
    >the VS.NET IDE, which has comparable requirements.


    Again, you started this, dont u remember(read your own post)? or it's
    just 'cause u throw the rock before think what r u gonna say? wow whata...

    >
    >
    >Because it required 128MB to be usable? You can buy 128MB for $70 or so.
    >>


    Er... sorry, did u read my first paragraph in my previous reply? where
    I state that would be very helpful if u think in a WIDER way and realize

    that USA economic conditions are not the same worldwide? please dont asume

    that 70 bucks are so easy to get outside USA, and believe me, in most
    countries in the third world isnt easy at all!

    And, anticipating one of ur possibles answers, yes, a VB licence cost a lot
    more than 70 bucks, but the point here was determining if an IDE is good
    or not in terms of its requirements, and I think that if i can do my job
    with a less resources demanding IDE, this is one point to favor this IDE
    not the one that requires me a huge amount of memory or r u going to say
    that an IDE is good or better than other just because is free??? think abt
    it.

    >
    >I'm baffled. I just named a FREE IDE for Java, and now you are complaining
    >about the lack of Java IDEs. Hmmn last time I checked you had to PAY MONEY
    >for the visual studio / VB6 IDEs.
    >>


    Did I complain? WHERE??? =) noway! I just said that IDEs in general make
    fun to program, NEVER asked for more Java IDEs, and BTW, how many free IDEs
    are for Java? How many Java IDEs have to be purchased and how much they cost?

    >
    >You obviously don't do multi-project loading and debugging in your IDEs.
    >


    Of course that I did, multi-project loading and debugging Mr. is what
    EVERYBODY does daily when you are developing, so dont say such thing, or
    do you
    think that I just use the IDE to draw the GUI? =) bad idea!

    >
    >The Java stuff doesn't have these problems.
    >More MS *&^^ you don't have to deal with using Java.
    >


    I know but... can u say the same abt Java IDEs? all of them?
    think it twice! remember man, the point discussed here are the IDE's
    crashes and how they are originated.

    >
    >Now you are blaming ME for DLL ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    >
    >ROFLMAO!


    blaming you? oh! come on man, stop to doing the victim, u r funny playing
    that role but no, i'm not blaming u abt anything, what I was saying was that
    if you follow the directions and read all the related documentation before
    installing your development environment in your machine you are more
    likely to setup a non faulty MS IDE.

    BTW in other posts you have said that you consider yourself a VERY
    proficient VB programmer,right? so if you were so capable, dont u think
    that setting up a non faulty VB dev environment would be a piece of cake

    for u? =).

    >
    >Now you are assuming I don't follow the directions. Are you using psychic
    >powers to determine this?
    >


    Nobody have to be a psychic to realize that if you have a faulty VB IDE
    environment is very probably 'cause you made some mistakes, or do you
    think that just because you had the VERY VERY unfortunate experience of
    having an unstable dev. env. with VB IDE the rest of the mortals run with
    the same terrible bad luck?


    >
    >Hint, one big impetus to move to DotNet is to get rid of or at least mitigate
    >DLL ****.
    >


    Yeah, I know it already, thanx anyway. I just can say abt this that maybe
    it will help you to dont feel blamed abt this dll ****.

    >
    >Right. You can have an IDE that repaints more slowly, or an IDE that creates
    >DLL **** software. Take your pick.
    >>


    DLL **** software is not responsability of VB IDE, in such case is
    platform's responsability, but this is NOT the subject of this thread, but
    if you, as developer, are causing your own DLL ****, then man... maybe
    can help yourself compiling with binary compatibility when u build your
    apps or components or using ur wisdom when you deploy them, but again,
    this is not a problem with the IDE itself.

    And yes, I took my pick, using in the RIGHT way my VB IDE, that paints fast,
    among another virtues, and use my knowledge to compile and deploy in the
    RIGHT way to avoid contribute to the DLL ****, and not blaming the IDE or
    justifying myself abt the mistakes that I've ever made.

    >>

    >
    >So now the Java tools are "toys" but VS is not better. Right.
    >


    buzz! wrong man, u missed it but dont worry, I'll put it more simple:

    VS isnt better or worst than Java IDEs or tools, they are excelent IDEs
    for doing development with the corresponding language.

    Miguel Angel Gonzalez


  13. #13
    Vlad Guest

    Re: Stick with Microsoft


    "Matthew Cromer" <matthew@sdaconsulting.com> wrote:
    >I am a software architect and developer who has worked with both technologies

    very extensively (unlike you).

    It's sad that so-called professionals such as yourself have never developed
    the social skills to be civil and respectful to others.

    >The MS stuff runs on only one platform. The current (COM-based) MS stuff
    >is an absolute nightmare re: COM interface changes and deployment. MS seems
    >to have the attitude that your programming interfaces will never need to
    >change. Ha. Java interfaces can change with no problem--when you change
    >VB/COM interfaces, you end up with a nightmare of regclean / recompile /
    >check binary compatibility dlls, etc. etc. etc.


    Um, you are wrong here. If a Java interface changes, a client to that interface
    can run into serious trouble. If one removes a method from the interface
    and a client calls that method, your program is going to barf.

    You can change COM interfaces just about as easily as you can change Java
    interfaces. The only difference is, MS saw the need to make the contract
    between object and callee a binding one. MS only *recommends* that extensions
    and revisions to COM interfaces be implemented as a whole new interface.

    Of course, you've already shown that your understanding of COM is very limited.
    I very much doubt your experience is "extensive" as you put it.

    >I do enjoy working with Java. Kicks COM ***. Which is why MS copied Java
    >to make DotNet.


    Hmm, these comments seem awfully green for you to be claiming to be "extensively"
    experienced with both platforms. I very much doubt you understand COM beyond
    the extent that it provides interfaces and late binding in C/C++. Few of
    the technologies you use are not copies of older technologies.

    >Anyone who knows Java will have absolutely no trouble with DotNet.


    That's a plus for .NET.

    >Matthew Cromer
    >President, SDA Consulting, Inc.


    Yikes, that's scary.




  14. #14
    Elvis Guest

    Re: Stick with Microsoft


    "Matthew Cromer" <matthew@sdaconsulting.com> wrote:
    >Raj,
    >
    > ...Not everyone's
    >advice is worth following, not by a long shot.
    >


    LOL. Anyone else see the humor in this?

    > This isn't a game. This
    >is real life, and I'm here to find ideas about how to improve my career

    and help others.

    Somehow, I get the feeling you aren't ready to help others. You've got issues,
    my friend, and I'd wait a few years before dispensing advice to people who
    know to be less arrogant than you.

    > I sure wish I had known ten years ago what I know today--it
    >would have meant a huge difference in how long it took me to get where I
    >am today.


    Funny how the President of the U.S. never has to say stuff like this. LOL

    >Matthew Cromer
    >





  15. #15
    Mr X Guest

    Re: Stick with Microsoft


    "Elvis" <elvis_presley@friendsofjesus.net> wrote:
    >


    Have you left the building yet?

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