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Thread: What are my options?

  1. #16
    Manoj Guest

    Re: What are my options?


    Hi,
    Thanks for your post, it is an intresting one. Do you really belive that
    most software development in not done that well? For example one reads lots
    about the classes and use of usercontrols and custom activex controls etc
    in many magazines. I would imagine that thats how software is developed,
    also when searching for jobs, all the adds are looking for people who know
    how to desine app in that way. My search is purely based on VB6, and its
    components.
    As you might know there are a number of ways to develop apps in VB. For example
    the use of a user control for say employee information and then making that
    control a standard throughout the organisation. The other way would be to
    create a form and reuse that form, most of the code would probably reside
    in the form itself. If the form was to be resused then it's added to the
    current project and the developer ammends it. So after a couple of years
    you have several variations of that one form, in various projects, maintencance
    will become a lot more difficult as a result.
    It's good to know that its not worth persuing with webclasses cause I dont
    like them.
    Well as for the citrix solution, I would not classify it as "a cheap alternative
    to webifying legacy desktop" not in the contaxt that we plan to use it anyway.
    Look at things this way, I would find it very difficult to write an application
    on the web with the same level of functionality and quickness of development
    as I would a VB app. Also I dont have to worry about deploying various components
    on various clients once the ICA client is in place. Since we are dealing
    with external clients who mainly use netscape with some using IE, I dont
    worry about the browser complications.
    Also we plan to update the app over time, and belive me the business req
    change quite quickly. Citirx makes a lot of sense, after all our business
    in not focused on software distribution but on providing clients with a service
    of online reporting. As for using a dial up connection, I was quite happy
    with the response, I tested it our a modem connected at 56K over the phone
    line. Things seemed fine, but remmember most of our clients will have a faster
    connection at work. However I do see the use of webpages for a genral audience
    to be a good approach e.g. like yahoo etc.
    As for VB.net can't realy deliver a project until we have a proper releses
    of the software even then we shall wait a while before going down that route
    in this company.
    The only thing wrong about my situation is that the way we develop, I'm a
    single developer in the department and its difficult to bounce ideas of others.
    But I still enjoy the work, I am just curious as to how things work else
    where.
    As for the law firm, I thought they make more money then market research
    companies and as a result they can pay a lot more. In my case 7K more plus
    private health and good working hours, and I will be given a much simpler
    task just automation of word.
    Anyway what sort of sector would you recommand apart from the financials?
    Just to end this message, do you know where I would be able to find out more
    about how VB is used in organisations and how software development is managed,
    I just can't belive that most companies go about software devlopment in the
    way we do it over here.
    I look forward to your response.
    Regards
    Manoj




    "Frustrated IT Worker" <frustrated@nospam.com> wrote:
    >
    >Law firms are none to be cheap so before you take the offer ask some questions
    >about training, etc. Citrix server is that how your clients run your apps
    >remotely? Never used it myself, but I have been told that it a cheap alternative
    >to webifying legacy desktop applications. I bet the response is bad on a
    >dial up.
    >
    >Webclasses -- forget about them their dead. ASP -- will be around for sometime.
    >I really haven't had the opportunity read up on the .NET framework, however,
    >it appears that it will make web development more accessible to the programming
    >masses. That is they won't have to learn a whole slew of scripting languages.
    >
    >What's wrong with your situation? Many people seem to think (idea comes

    from
    >books, magazines, hype?) that everyone is doing software development correctly
    >except for the company they work at. Well, the reality is that most people
    >are in a situation similiar to yours. Companies/Teams that have their act
    >together are tough to find.
    >
    >"Manoj" <AKshah1@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >



  2. #17
    Frustrated IT Worker Guest

    Re: What are my options?


    >Anyone doing development in the US and doing it well should be compensated
    >AT LEAST 50K, 60K+ is the norm for good developers. That's for a >permanent

    job with a real company.

    Yup, I would tend to agree with these numbers. That is, they seem to be what
    most experienced developers are making nowdays.

    Mid to upper 30K on average, 40K - 50K for the "top guns" coming out of college
    (yes, I have twisted Matthew's words here) is probably about right if you
    were looking to come up with a so called "national average". Note: 10 years
    ago, these numbers would have been significantly lower.

    All in all, I would say that Matthew's salary figures are a pretty good guestimate
    for his region of the country since it is one of the hotbeds in the IT industry
    (probably right behind Silly Valley and the DC area).

    Personally, I don't think a person can take the figures quoted here as a
    good benchmark for what they *should* be earning. There are too many variables
    that need to calculated into the equation before a person can determine their
    true market worth (i.e. geograhpic location, years of experience, skill set,
    business knowledge/experience, roles played on past projects, size of past
    projects worked on, and the list goes on and on and on). There is a compensation
    web site http://www.salary.com/ that tries to help you come up with a benchmark
    based on position, geographic location, etc. I don't know how accurate their
    figures really are, but I suppose that it is a good place to start.

    Personal Opinion: I would take a 30K - 40K developer position over a much
    higher paying, dead-end, skills dulling job, such as, maintenance programming
    any day of the week. Long-term marketability is more important than how much
    money you can make in shortest period of time.




  3. #18
    Frustrated IT Worker Guest

    Re: What are my options?


    Hi Manoj,

    Below are my brief comments on your last post.

    >Thanks for your post, it is an intresting one. Do you really belive that
    >most software development in not done that well? For example one reads lots
    >about the classes and use of usercontrols and custom activex controls etc
    >in many magazines. I would imagine that thats how software is developed,
    >also when searching for jobs, all the adds are looking for people who know
    >how to desine app in that way. My search is purely based on VB6, and its
    >components.


    My observation is that employers tend to want someone who has a big S on
    their chest, wears blue tights with a cape, and has a strong aversion to
    the mineral kryptonite. Just because a job ad states some particular set
    of technologies or development experience doesn't mean that they will find
    an acceptable candidate to fill the open position. One of the reasons that
    so many IT positions go unfilled for long periods of time is that employers
    would rather hold out and continue looking for that perfect candidate to
    come along rather then fill it with someone who has the potential to do the
    job. In the "old days", you were not expected to be "productive" right out
    of the gate. However, times have changed and so have performance expectations.

    >I just can't belive that most companies go about software devlopment in

    the
    >way we do it over here.


    How do find out if a company is doing sofware development the way "you think"
    they should be? Ask a lot of questions during the interview process.

    >The only thing wrong about my situation is that the way we develop, I'm

    a
    >single developer in the department and its difficult to bounce ideas of

    others.

    I hear what you are saying. Assuming you can find a job where you would be
    working with highly experieced and selfless employees this can be a great
    perk to have at your disposal. Have you tried to discuss some of your ideas
    with the seperate IT department's employees at your current company?
    Is this a impractical or impossible solution? One of nice things about your
    current situation (or so it seems) is that you can implement your own procedures
    without being shot down by others since you are working alone.

    Btw, Citirx seems to be a very good product. I hope you didn't interpret
    my words any other way. I know that I made it sound as if webifying desktop
    applications is the only thing it is good for when clearly this is not the
    case. Glad to hear that performance is not an issue for you. Several years
    ago, I installed Citrix's client software on my home PC. The client that
    I was doing work for at the time was going to use me (along with dozen or
    so others) as a guinnea pig to see if some of their desktop applications
    could be run remotely. Of course, I never found out how things turned out
    for them since I left for bigger and better things a short time after I installed
    this software.

    >As for the law firm, I thought they make more money then market research
    >companies and as a result they can pay a lot more. In my case 7K more plus
    >private health and good working hours, and I will be given a much simpler
    >task just automation of word.
    >Anyway what sort of sector would you recommand apart from the financials?


    Just my observation: In the states, most law firms seem to have modest IT
    needs. That is, they would probably find a person with your skill set to
    be a pefect match for almost all of their current and future needs. Are there
    law firms that have a large internal IT staff on hand? I don't know the answer
    to that question, but in my area the answer is "generally speaking no". As
    for the financials sector, there are certain financial type of companies
    (i.e. Charles Schwab) that are definately cutting edge and they employ quite
    a few IT workers. I can't give you any easier answers to your questions about
    a particular business sector of the economy. I think that you need to assess
    each IT position being offered to you on a case-by-case basis. For example,
    in the USA some telecommunication companies pay fairly low wages while in
    other areas of the country that may not be the case.

  4. #19
    Jeff Guest

    Re: What are my options?


    As a solo worker, one thing you can do is to read all you can about software
    development techniques. You don't necessarily need to be in a group setting
    to get all that knowledge. Just get some good magazines, read some good
    books (check your local library), and become a student of these techniques.
    If your group expands to the point it needs more people, then you'll be
    the guru on software development for your group. If you get the chance,
    network with other developers too. This will give you some of the advantages
    of gaining knowledge from others.

  5. #20
    Jeff Guest

    Re: What are my options?


    >Personal Opinion: I would take a 30K - 40K developer position over a much
    >higher paying, dead-end, skills dulling job, such as, maintenance >programming

    any day of the week. Long-term marketability is more >important than how
    much money you can make in shortest period of time.

    I would prefer to do that too. But I'm not in a position to take a significant
    pay cut to do something that I would enjoy more. That's the frustrating
    part of work, I guess. I guess I'll keep hoping for the Holy Grail - a good
    developer position with the same or better pay than I'm getting now


  6. #21
    Pierre G. Boutquin Guest

    Re: What are my options?

    "Elena" <egermano@home.com> wrote in message
    news:3ac9d43b$1@news.devx.com...
    > Normally, I'm not a big fan of certifications - - I did an MCSD myself a
    > few years back and was told by many employers it was worthless.


    IMO, it was worthless a few years back. However, MS revised the requirements
    and made it more relevant to what a developer needs to know. In particular,
    the architecture exam is a fairly useful test.

    <Pierre/>



  7. #22
    Elena Guest

    Re: What are my options?


    Well, my point was not that the exam itself was worthless, but that employers
    had no respect for the idea of application developer certs. I have not detected
    any change in that attitude. I rather doubt that any sort of test could
    be devised that would convince development managers. They just tend to dismiss
    all software certs as "paper tests", irrelevant to "real work".

    There are a few companies that seem to support the idea and if you work for
    one of those, great. Otherwise, use the exams as an outline to study from
    but don't spend a lot of money or build up a lot of expectations as to what
    they will do for your career.

    Elena

    "Pierre G. Boutquin" <boutquin@home.com> wrote:
    >"Elena" <egermano@home.com> wrote in message
    >news:3ac9d43b$1@news.devx.com...
    >> Normally, I'm not a big fan of certifications - - I did an MCSD myself

    a
    >> few years back and was told by many employers it was worthless.

    >
    >IMO, it was worthless a few years back. However, MS revised the requirements
    >and made it more relevant to what a developer needs to know. In particular,
    >the architecture exam is a fairly useful test.
    >
    ><Pierre/>
    >
    >



  8. #23
    simon Guest

    Re: What are my options?

    Perception is everything. There are way too many "Paper MCSE" and "Paper
    MCSD" out there (people passed the exams by pure memorization, with no
    practical experience to back them up), causing employers not to trust them
    entirely. IMHO, certification should be used as *compliment* to your
    working experience, no more and no less. I am Microsoft-certified myself,
    but I view it as a personal feat and not a "meal ticket".

    Just my $0.02.

    simon.



    "Elena" <egermano@home.com> wrote in message
    news:3ad5ac2e$1@news.devx.com...
    >
    > Well, my point was not that the exam itself was worthless, but that

    employers
    > had no respect for the idea of application developer certs. I have not

    detected
    > any change in that attitude. I rather doubt that any sort of test could
    > be devised that would convince development managers. They just tend to

    dismiss
    > all software certs as "paper tests", irrelevant to "real work".
    >
    > There are a few companies that seem to support the idea and if you work

    for
    > one of those, great. Otherwise, use the exams as an outline to study from
    > but don't spend a lot of money or build up a lot of expectations as to

    what
    > they will do for your career.
    >
    > Elena
    >
    > "Pierre G. Boutquin" <boutquin@home.com> wrote:
    > >"Elena" <egermano@home.com> wrote in message
    > >news:3ac9d43b$1@news.devx.com...
    > >> Normally, I'm not a big fan of certifications - - I did an MCSD myself

    > a
    > >> few years back and was told by many employers it was worthless.

    > >
    > >IMO, it was worthless a few years back. However, MS revised the

    requirements
    > >and made it more relevant to what a developer needs to know. In

    particular,
    > >the architecture exam is a fairly useful test.
    > >
    > ><Pierre/>
    > >
    > >

    >



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