.NET C# careers

[Harry Mars]

I have a background in software development in the non-Windows world-C++,
Unix, Java, JSP, Servlets. Two months ago, I had an opportunity with a startup
to work on VoiceXML, ASP.NET, Web Services. I am coming to grips with development
in the Windows world and facing technologies like COM. DCOM, Windowes GUI
etc. My question to anyone is: I am a Greenhorn in the MS Software world,
what are the prospects for .NET experienced Greenhorns like myself? Do employers
seek people who have already been working extensively in Microsoft Products
and made the switch to .NET? OR are there decent career prospects for folks
who jumped into the MS Bandwagon with .NET?

[Kman]

> Do employers seek people who have already been working
> extensively in Microsoft Products and made the switch to
> .NET? OR are there decent career prospects for folks who
> jumped into the MS Bandwagon with .NET?

My Thoughts.

Everyone is a greenhorn at .NET. As a Java developer you actually have a
fairly good position if you chose C#. I really do not believe you will have
much trouble.

[MarkN]

"Kman" <kim_kman@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Do employers seek people who have already been working
> > extensively in Microsoft Products and made the switch to
> > .NET? OR are there decent career prospects for folks who
> > jumped into the MS Bandwagon with .NET?
>
>My Thoughts.
>
>Everyone is a greenhorn at .NET. As a Java developer you actually have a
>fairly good position if you chose C#. I really do not believe you will have
>much trouble.
>

I agree. If you have good experience with C++ and Java, you are light years
ahead of the majority of VBers.

[Rich rrichnospam.nospam.com]

"MarkN" <mnuttall@nospam.com> wrote:

>
>I agree. If you have good experience with C++ and Java, you are light years
>ahead of the majority of VBers.
>

Mark,

This is not true. There are many issues to bringing the "total package" to
the employer. You have to understand the operating system. If you are a UNIX
or LINUX guru, yes you understand some things. However, there are many Microsoft
specific issues they have never faced. What about the registry? What about
COM/DCOM? There are many others. In the end, many employers want to see solid
years of using a specific OS. I would not believe someone has used UNIX and
Windows 2000 full time. Some people try to get away with this. In reality,
you can only do one thing full time. :-)

Next, the vast majority of the comapanies will be looking for someone with
skills in Visual Studio 6 (VB6, ASP or VC++) and VS.NET. If you have someone
who knows only VS.NET, they will be at a disadvantage. Now, in three years
or so, it may not be an issue. There may even be a rare case were they will
be doing VS.NET exclusively. However, according to the Gartner Group, Visual
Studio 6 will have most of the market for the next 2.5 years. In this field,
that is a very long time.

Rich

[MarkN]

"Rich" rrichnospam.nospam.com wrote:
>
>"MarkN" <mnuttall@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>I agree. If you have good experience with C++ and Java, you are light
years
>>ahead of the majority of VBers.
>>

I'm not sure that most of what you said has anything to do with Java, etc
being a better starting point than VB. In learning .Net, they are and that
is all I was saying. C# is so much like Java it is not funny.

>This is not true. There are many issues to bringing the "total package"
to
>the employer.

True. One of those this is knowing more than one database, language, OS,
etc so you can pick the right tool for the job.

>You have to understand the operating system.

Not really. Unless you are doing system/embedding programming, it really
doesn't matter that much. Most people who use VB, and they can create apps
that 'work', don't understand the OS.

>If you are a UNIX
>or LINUX guru, yes you understand some things. However, there are many Microsoft
>specific issues they have never faced. What about the registry? What about
>COM/DCOM? There are many others.

How many of these have most VBers faced? Few if any. None of these are
really that tough any

>In the end, many employers want to see solid
>years of using a specific OS.

This I can't deny. It is only because they don't really understand what
it takes to get the job done. Ability is much more important than 'years
experience'. Having a wide range of skills is more valuable than a narrow
one - for yourself and your 'employer'. My range of skills has helped more
than hurt (never known it to hurt). I don't think I would want to work for
those who don't understand this anyway.

Alot of the code I currently write I do on Window's but it can be deployed
on at least 5 platforms with no changes and no knowledge of those OS's on
my part.

>I would not believe someone has used UNIX and
>Windows 2000 full time. Some people try to get away with this. In reality,
>you can only do one thing full time. :-)

True. Does it really matter? What is full time? Some people could work
less than others and still learn and know more. Many people in this industry
work more than 40hrs a week. I do. So is that more than fulltime? And
we take less time off. Especially contractors.

>Next, the vast majority of the comapanies will be looking for someone with
>skills in Visual Studio 6 (VB6, ASP or VC++) and VS.NET. If you have someone
>who knows only VS.NET, they will be at a disadvantage. Now, in three years
>or so, it may not be an issue. There may even be a rare case were they will
>be doing VS.NET exclusively. However, according to the Gartner Group, Visual
>Studio 6 will have most of the market for the next 2.5 years. In this field,
>that is a very long time.

This would definitely seem to be true for those using and continuing to use
MS technologies. Also, those who only know VS6 will be at a disadvantage
too.


Mark

[Nick]

"Harry Mars" <boosman_1969@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>I have a background in software development in the non-Windows world-C++,
>Unix, Java, JSP, Servlets. Two months ago, I had an opportunity with a startup
>to work on VoiceXML, ASP.NET, Web Services. I am coming to grips with development
>in the Windows world and facing technologies like COM. DCOM, Windowes GUI
>etc. My question to anyone is: I am a Greenhorn in the MS Software world,
>what are the prospects for .NET experienced Greenhorns like myself? Do employers
>seek people who have already been working extensively in Microsoft Products
>and made the switch to .NET? OR are there decent career prospects for folks
>who jumped into the MS Bandwagon with .NET?
>

Knowing Java gives you a jump on the syntax of C#. However that does not
mean you know .NET. The whole point of .NET is that the language you write
in is irrelevent. There are already quite a few .NET languages that when
compiled, all run at the same speed (except for C++ but that is not managed).

VB6, ATL, and MFC code will be around for quite some time. The direction
will be in moving to .NET slowly which means that you will need to make .NET
code work with VB6 code, etc. This means you need to learn COM. In fact,
I think that knowing COM (as far as VB6 is concerned) is more important now
than ever. Knowing how COM works gives you a good leg up on writing .NET
code that interoperates with VB6 and ATL, etc.

[Jeff H]

Mark:

There is a huge difference between those who *use* VB and those who *develop*
using VB. Yes, there are many problems associated with COM/DCOM, and yes
you have to understand exactly how it works to get around most of them. One
of the biggest points in .NET actually is to do away with many of those old
problems. It is also a known fact that many VB'ers also code against the
Win32 API, which is OS specific, to do some of the more advanced stuff (e.g.
notification icons). So, you may be able to learn C# and the .NET Framework
quickly, but that does not make you a Windows *developer*.

Have fun.

Jeff

"MarkN" <mnuttall@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>"Rich" rrichnospam.nospam.com wrote:
>>
>>"MarkN" <mnuttall@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>I agree. If you have good experience with C++ and Java, you are light
>years
>>>ahead of the majority of VBers.
>>>
>
>I'm not sure that most of what you said has anything to do with Java, etc
>being a better starting point than VB. In learning .Net, they are and that
>is all I was saying. C# is so much like Java it is not funny.
>
>>This is not true. There are many issues to bringing the "total package"
>to
>>the employer.
>
>True. One of those this is knowing more than one database, language, OS,
>etc so you can pick the right tool for the job.
>
>>You have to understand the operating system.
>
>Not really. Unless you are doing system/embedding programming, it really
>doesn't matter that much. Most people who use VB, and they can create apps
>that 'work', don't understand the OS.
>
>>If you are a UNIX
>>or LINUX guru, yes you understand some things. However, there are many
Microsoft
>>specific issues they have never faced. What about the registry? What about
>>COM/DCOM? There are many others.
>
>How many of these have most VBers faced? Few if any. None of these are
>really that tough any
>
>>In the end, many employers want to see solid
>>years of using a specific OS.
>
>This I can't deny. It is only because they don't really understand what
>it takes to get the job done. Ability is much more important than 'years
>experience'. Having a wide range of skills is more valuable than a narrow
>one - for yourself and your 'employer'. My range of skills has helped more
>than hurt (never known it to hurt). I don't think I would want to work
for
>those who don't understand this anyway.
>
>Alot of the code I currently write I do on Window's but it can be deployed
>on at least 5 platforms with no changes and no knowledge of those OS's on
>my part.
>
>>I would not believe someone has used UNIX and
>>Windows 2000 full time. Some people try to get away with this. In reality,
>>you can only do one thing full time. :-)
>
>True. Does it really matter? What is full time? Some people could work
>less than others and still learn and know more. Many people in this industry
>work more than 40hrs a week. I do. So is that more than fulltime? And
>we take less time off. Especially contractors.
>
>>Next, the vast majority of the comapanies will be looking for someone with
>>skills in Visual Studio 6 (VB6, ASP or VC++) and VS.NET. If you have someone
>>who knows only VS.NET, they will be at a disadvantage. Now, in three years
>>or so, it may not be an issue. There may even be a rare case were they
will
>>be doing VS.NET exclusively. However, according to the Gartner Group, Visual
>>Studio 6 will have most of the market for the next 2.5 years. In this field,
>>that is a very long time.
>
>This would definitely seem to be true for those using and continuing to
use
>MS technologies. Also, those who only know VS6 will be at a disadvantage
>too.
>
>
>Mark
>

[MarkN]

>
>There is a huge difference between those who *use* VB and those who *develop*
>using VB.

So where does the transition occur? Having developed with VB for many years
I don't think there is that huge a difference.

>Yes, there are many problems associated with COM/DCOM, and yes
>you have to understand exactly how it works to get around most of them.
One
>of the biggest points in .NET actually is to do away with many of those
old
>problems. It is also a known fact that many VB'ers also code against the
>Win32 API, which is OS specific, to do some of the more advanced stuff (e.g.
>notification icons).

I wouldn't say many. The Win32 API is C so are you really doing VB anymore?



>So, you may be able to learn C# and the .NET Framework
>quickly, but that does not make you a Windows *developer*.
>

Why not? Isn't .Net platform independent? Why does one need to be a 'Windows'
developer?

Mark