Im an Entry Level Programmer trying to break in,and have yet to find an opening what should I do?


DevX Home    Today's Headlines   Articles Archive   Tip Bank   Forums   

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 17

Thread: Im an Entry Level Programmer trying to break in,and have yet to find an opening what should I do?

  1. #1
    Allen Guest

    Im an Entry Level Programmer trying to break in,and have yet to find an opening what should I do?


    I have an Associates of Science(Computer Info Systems).Have studied ASP,Javascript,Vb6.0,C++(Borland)VBA.I
    have a good core starting point.I wonder how to gain an entry level job in
    the DFW,Tx area.Would A MCSD or JAVA Cert.get me in the door somewhere

  2. #2
    Elena Guest

    Re: Im an Entry Level Programmer trying to break in,and have yet to find an opening what should I do


    Right now the job market is very bad. I can't speak for DFW, but in general
    the market is slow across the country. I'm hearing predictions that it will
    be the end of year before things really get going again. So don't take any
    of this personally. It's not you!

    You can pursue a cert but I'm pretty sure a cert with no experience will
    not help a great deal. Also, in the long-term, a bachelor's degree will
    serve you better than an associates. Some people will certainly argue this
    point with me, but that is what I have seen. And the college internship
    (which usually takes place in the junior and senior years) is the most common
    way for student programmers to get "real" experience in the field - - the
    kind that employers consider acceptable.

    By all means keep looking, but you might give serious consideration to completing
    that bachelor's degree.

    Best of Luck.
    Elena




    "Allen" <allen_R_lewis@email.com> wrote:
    >
    >I have an Associates of Science(Computer Info Systems).Have studied ASP,Javascript,Vb6.0,C++(Borland)VBA.I
    >have a good core starting point.I wonder how to gain an entry level job

    in
    >the DFW,Tx area.Would A MCSD or JAVA Cert.get me in the door somewhere



  3. #3
    Gerald Nunn Guest

    Re: Im an Entry Level Programmer trying to break in,and have yet to find an opening what should I do

    "Allen" <allen_R_lewis@email.com> wrote in message
    news:3cc6d7bd$1@10.1.10.29...
    >
    > I have an Associates of Science(Computer Info Systems).Have studied

    ASP,Javascript,Vb6.0,C++(Borland)VBA.I
    > have a good core starting point.I wonder how to gain an entry level job in
    > the DFW,Tx area.Would A MCSD or JAVA Cert.get me in the door somewhere


    My standard reply is simply to write some code. Create a publically
    available hobby project or participate in an open source project. You'll
    network with people and employers get an idea for your capabilities. Also,
    it makes your resume a little more distinct from your peers, particularly at
    the entry level, when you have something concrete to show. Pick something
    your interested in and go for it.

    Gerald



  4. #4
    PHIL Guest

    Re: Im an Entry Level Programmer trying to break in,and have yet to find an opening what should I do


    "Elena" <egermano@comcast.net> wrote:
    >
    >Right now the job market is very bad. I can't speak for DFW, but in general
    >the market is slow across the country. I'm hearing predictions that it

    will
    >be the end of year before things really get going again. So don't take

    any
    >of this personally. It's not you!
    >
    >You can pursue a cert but I'm pretty sure a cert with no experience will
    >not help a great deal. Also, in the long-term, a bachelor's degree will
    >serve you better than an associates. Some people will certainly argue this
    >point with me, but that is what I have seen. And the college internship
    >(which usually takes place in the junior and senior years) is the most common
    >way for student programmers to get "real" experience in the field - - the
    >kind that employers consider acceptable.
    >
    >By all means keep looking, but you might give serious consideration to completing
    >that bachelor's degree.
    >
    >Best of Luck.
    >Elena
    >

    I agree with Elena on this one. At a minimum, go get your bachelor's degree.
    Even though the economy is pretty bad right now, I have discovered to my
    shocking surprise that many IT professionals who've been laid off DID NOT
    have college degrees. They either had certificates from one of those crank-em
    out certification schools or hands-on experience. Although a person might
    be able to do IT work based on hands-on experience, if they do not have the
    required educational background, they are NOT qualified to have the job and
    this economy proves it. Many people in IT have mistakenly believe they can
    get just a certificate in lieu of a computer science degree. My younger brother
    found this out THE HARD WAY!! Employers still want to see that degree. What
    some of these people fail to realize is that the certification schools teach
    what is hot and in demand at the moment. Very often, what is learned at those
    schools usually becomes obsolete very quickly. Therefore, the student who
    spends thousands of dollars on this school soon finds out that their skills
    are obsolete because of newer and changing technology and finds him/herself
    back to square one. Very frustrating indeed. The person with the degree however
    has well-rounded overall knowledge of computer science and therefore, can
    adapt to ANY change that comes their way, unlike a person with just a certicate.
    I do want to make it clear that I am not bashing certication schools. But
    what I am saying is I feel they are good supplements for people with CS degrees,
    NOT IN PLACE OF!!

    Allen, you said you have an Associates Degree but no experience. As I said
    previously, go back to school and get your Bachelors. Preferably your Masters,
    but definitely the Bachelors. The majority of employers will not look at
    you without it, especially since you don't have any experience. As it stands
    currently, there are many IT people out of work, including those with degrees
    who have lots of experience. It's an employer's market and they are very
    picky to see the least. But at any rate, keep looking and don't give up hope.
    But I must warn you, based on what you have currently, you have a very, very
    tall mountain to climb as other IT professionals can attest. Best of luck
    to you. PHIL
    >
    >
    >"Allen" <allen_R_lewis@email.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>I have an Associates of Science(Computer Info Systems).Have studied ASP,Javascript,Vb6.0,C++(Borland)VBA.I
    >>have a good core starting point.I wonder how to gain an entry level job

    >in
    >>the DFW,Tx area.Would A MCSD or JAVA Cert.get me in the door somewhere

    >



  5. #5
    MarkN Guest

    Re: Im an Entry Level Programmer trying to break in,and have yet to find an opening what should I do


    "PHIL" <crackermoon@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >
    >"Elena" <egermano@comcast.net> wrote:
    >>
    >>Right now the job market is very bad. I can't speak for DFW, but in general
    >>the market is slow across the country. I'm hearing predictions that it

    >will
    >>be the end of year before things really get going again. So don't take

    >any
    >>of this personally. It's not you!
    >>
    >>You can pursue a cert but I'm pretty sure a cert with no experience will
    >>not help a great deal. Also, in the long-term, a bachelor's degree will
    >>serve you better than an associates. Some people will certainly argue

    this
    >>point with me, but that is what I have seen. And the college internship
    >>(which usually takes place in the junior and senior years) is the most

    common
    >>way for student programmers to get "real" experience in the field - - the
    >>kind that employers consider acceptable.
    >>
    >>By all means keep looking, but you might give serious consideration to

    completing
    >>that bachelor's degree.
    >>
    >>Best of Luck.
    >>Elena
    >>

    >I agree with Elena on this one. At a minimum, go get your bachelor's degree.
    >Even though the economy is pretty bad right now, I have discovered to my
    >shocking surprise that many IT professionals who've been laid off DID NOT
    >have college degrees. They either had certificates from one of those crank-em
    >out certification schools or hands-on experience. Although a person might
    >be able to do IT work based on hands-on experience, if they do not have

    the
    >required educational background, they are NOT qualified to have the job

    and
    >this economy proves it. Many people in IT have mistakenly believe they can
    >get just a certificate in lieu of a computer science degree. My younger

    brother
    >found this out THE HARD WAY!! Employers still want to see that degree. What
    >some of these people fail to realize is that the certification schools teach
    >what is hot and in demand at the moment. Very often, what is learned at

    those
    >schools usually becomes obsolete very quickly. Therefore, the student who
    >spends thousands of dollars on this school soon finds out that their skills
    >are obsolete because of newer and changing technology and finds him/herself
    >back to square one. Very frustrating indeed. The person with the degree

    however
    >has well-rounded overall knowledge of computer science and therefore, can
    >adapt to ANY change that comes their way, unlike a person with just a certicate.
    >I do want to make it clear that I am not bashing certication schools. But
    >what I am saying is I feel they are good supplements for people with CS

    degrees,
    >NOT IN PLACE OF!!
    >
    >Allen, you said you have an Associates Degree but no experience. As I said
    >previously, go back to school and get your Bachelors. Preferably your Masters,
    >but definitely the Bachelors. The majority of employers will not look at
    >you without it, especially since you don't have any experience. As it stands
    >currently, there are many IT people out of work, including those with degrees
    >who have lots of experience. It's an employer's market and they are very
    >picky to see the least. But at any rate, keep looking and don't give up

    hope.
    >But I must warn you, based on what you have currently, you have a very,

    very
    >tall mountain to climb as other IT professionals can attest. Best of luck
    >to you. PHIL
    >>
    >>
    >>"Allen" <allen_R_lewis@email.com> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>I have an Associates of Science(Computer Info Systems).Have studied ASP,Javascript,Vb6.0,C++(Borland)VBA.I
    >>>have a good core starting point.I wonder how to gain an entry level job

    >>in
    >>>the DFW,Tx area.Would A MCSD or JAVA Cert.get me in the door somewhere

    >>

    >


    If you are saying that a CS degree is required to get the job done (in other
    words CSers are better developers) then I would say you are wrong.

    If you are saying that a CS degree is required to get the job (in other words
    it gives one a leg up) then I would agree.

    Other than for the 'sheepskin' and employers like people to have 'sheepskins'
    I see no need for a CS Bachelors degree. Definitely not a Masters. Unfortunately,
    this person (and others) needs a job. So you gotta do what you gotta do.

    I would go back and get my masters if I wasn't so busy working and thought
    it was actually technically valuable.

    Mark

  6. #6
    simon Guest

    Re: Im an Entry Level Programmer trying to break in,and have yet to find an opening what should I do

    Allen,

    The DFW area is famous for its Telecom Corridor. It was hit hard when the
    dotcom bubble bursted. All the telecom *equipment* companies had massive
    layoff. Some companies like Nortel Networks are planning for more layoff
    later this year. Companies with better position, like Cisco, are having
    hiring freeze.... more likely for the rest of the year.

    Other industries, like insurance (hey, DFW is also an insurance capital) and
    banking for example, are hiring people. But with all the unemployed
    software engineers out there, employers can be very picky. The chance of
    hiring an entry level programmer is very slim when they can hire experienced
    programmers at bargain basement price.

    My advice is that, at this economic down time, it is the *perfect* time to
    pursue your education. The economy will bounce back and you will be in
    better position when you finish the school.

    College is practically free in America. You can get grant, loan,
    scholarship, etc etc. I remember when I was in grad school, there was an
    old lady in my class. She told me she got laid off and goverment was paying
    her to get a master degree. It is what they call to "retrain" you to get
    back into the workforce. But at $350 per credit hour, it is a heck of a
    deal!!! And I think she made an excellent decision. If the old lady can do
    it, why can't you?

    When it comes to your career, you have to think it thru very carefully. And
    most important of them all, think in *long term*.

    Hope this helps.

    simon.

    "Allen" <allen_R_lewis@email.com> wrote in message
    news:3cc6d7bd$1@10.1.10.29...
    >
    > I have an Associates of Science(Computer Info Systems).Have studied

    ASP,Javascript,Vb6.0,C++(Borland)VBA.I
    > have a good core starting point.I wonder how to gain an entry level job in
    > the DFW,Tx area.Would A MCSD or JAVA Cert.get me in the door somewhere




  7. #7
    R Brown Guest

    Re: Im an Entry Level Programmer trying to break in,and have yet to find an opening what should I do


    "Allen" <allen_R_lewis@email.com> wrote:
    >
    >I have an Associates of Science(Computer Info Systems).Have studied ASP,Javascript,Vb6.0,C++(Borland)VBA.I
    >have a good core starting point.I wonder how to gain an entry level job

    in
    >the DFW,Tx area.Would A MCSD or JAVA Cert.get me in the door somewhere



    April 29, 2002

    Hello Allen

    I am responding to your message you posted on Devx.com under careers.advice.

    In response to what you should do to break into the IT market, I would not
    at this time. I would go back to school and get your undergraduate degree
    because the market no longer exists at this time and you will have more education.
    I have been seeing more requirements for an education than I have in the
    last three years.. I say this because I am going onto three years in the
    IT profession and I have been unemployed for over six months with a degree
    and finishing with a minor soon.

    As the MCSD certification, I would not get it at this time because the new
    certification requirements for the .NET archetecture will not be out sometime
    2003. MCSD certification with Visual Studio 6 is not transferable to Visual
    Studio.NET

    Now, what I would do is start learning Visual Basic.NET, Visual C# and ASP.NET
    languages because when the market begins to pickup, most companies will move
    to .NET for new applications. If you have the skills in .NET, you will have
    an advantage over college students that graduate from college.

    Another career advancement I would recommend is learning Oracle Databases,
    which includes PL/SQL extensively. I have lost full-time programming positions
    because I did not know Oracle. The second Database system you sould learn
    is SQL Server.

    In short, you must keep trying to get into the market in a creative way.
    For instance, if you know someone with a business that needs some programming
    work done, which the company cannot afford a consultant, offer to do it free
    of charge. This is one way to get the expirance and you will build up your
    resume. That is how I did it to an extent. I did some work for my fathers
    business. That is how I got into the business.

    If you would like to take more, just e-mail me anytime at developerofsoftware@hotmail.com.

    R. Brown II

  8. #8
    PHIL Guest

    Re: Im an Entry Level Programmer trying to break in,and have yet to find an opening what should I do


    "MarkN" <m@n.com> wrote:
    >
    >"PHIL" <crackermoon@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>"Elena" <egermano@comcast.net> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>Right now the job market is very bad. I can't speak for DFW, but in general
    >>>the market is slow across the country. I'm hearing predictions that it

    >>will
    >>>be the end of year before things really get going again. So don't take

    >>any
    >>>of this personally. It's not you!
    >>>
    >>>You can pursue a cert but I'm pretty sure a cert with no experience will
    >>>not help a great deal. Also, in the long-term, a bachelor's degree will
    >>>serve you better than an associates. Some people will certainly argue

    >this
    >>>point with me, but that is what I have seen. And the college internship
    >>>(which usually takes place in the junior and senior years) is the most

    >common
    >>>way for student programmers to get "real" experience in the field - -

    the
    >>>kind that employers consider acceptable.
    >>>
    >>>By all means keep looking, but you might give serious consideration to

    >completing
    >>>that bachelor's degree.
    >>>
    >>>Best of Luck.
    >>>Elena
    >>>

    >>I agree with Elena on this one. At a minimum, go get your bachelor's degree.
    >>Even though the economy is pretty bad right now, I have discovered to my
    >>shocking surprise that many IT professionals who've been laid off DID NOT
    >>have college degrees. They either had certificates from one of those crank-em
    >>out certification schools or hands-on experience. Although a person might
    >>be able to do IT work based on hands-on experience, if they do not have

    >the
    >>required educational background, they are NOT qualified to have the job

    >and
    >>this economy proves it. Many people in IT have mistakenly believe they

    can
    >>get just a certificate in lieu of a computer science degree. My younger

    >brother
    >>found this out THE HARD WAY!! Employers still want to see that degree.

    What
    >>some of these people fail to realize is that the certification schools

    teach
    >>what is hot and in demand at the moment. Very often, what is learned at

    >those
    >>schools usually becomes obsolete very quickly. Therefore, the student who
    >>spends thousands of dollars on this school soon finds out that their skills
    >>are obsolete because of newer and changing technology and finds him/herself
    >>back to square one. Very frustrating indeed. The person with the degree

    >however
    >>has well-rounded overall knowledge of computer science and therefore, can
    >>adapt to ANY change that comes their way, unlike a person with just a certicate.
    >>I do want to make it clear that I am not bashing certication schools. But
    >>what I am saying is I feel they are good supplements for people with CS

    >degrees,
    >>NOT IN PLACE OF!!
    >>
    >>Allen, you said you have an Associates Degree but no experience. As I said
    >>previously, go back to school and get your Bachelors. Preferably your Masters,
    >>but definitely the Bachelors. The majority of employers will not look at
    >>you without it, especially since you don't have any experience. As it stands
    >>currently, there are many IT people out of work, including those with degrees
    >>who have lots of experience. It's an employer's market and they are very
    >>picky to see the least. But at any rate, keep looking and don't give up

    >hope.
    >>But I must warn you, based on what you have currently, you have a very,

    >very
    >>tall mountain to climb as other IT professionals can attest. Best of luck
    >>to you. PHIL
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>"Allen" <allen_R_lewis@email.com> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>I have an Associates of Science(Computer Info Systems).Have studied ASP,Javascript,Vb6.0,C++(Borland)VBA.I
    >>>>have a good core starting point.I wonder how to gain an entry level job
    >>>in
    >>>>the DFW,Tx area.Would A MCSD or JAVA Cert.get me in the door somewhere
    >>>

    >>

    >
    >If you are saying that a CS degree is required to get the job done (in other
    >words CSers are better developers) then I would say you are wrong.
    >
    >If you are saying that a CS degree is required to get the job (in other

    words
    >it gives one a leg up) then I would agree.
    >
    >Other than for the 'sheepskin' and employers like people to have 'sheepskins'
    >I see no need for a CS Bachelors degree. Definitely not a Masters. Unfortunately,
    >this person (and others) needs a job. So you gotta do what you gotta do.
    >
    >I would go back and get my masters if I wasn't so busy working and thought
    >it was actually technically valuable.
    >
    >Mark


    Hey Mark, it has been shown that a person who is non-degreed is usually the
    first to be let go when times get tough. I know of this first-hand. Just
    because you have the ability to do the job doesn't mean you are qualified
    to have it from an educational standpoint. Employers want to know you have
    formal CS education from a college or university. For the most part, they
    want to see the degree. Certificates from those crank-em out certification
    schools ARE NOT ENOUGH in the long run. They focus on what's hot at the moment.
    Because technology changes so rapidly(about 12 to 18 months to be exact),
    many of these certificates become worthless very quickly. YOU NEED THE CS
    DEGREE TO HAVE THE WELL-ROUNDED EDUCATION NEEDED TO (as you say)HAVE A LEG
    UP IN THIS BUSINESS!!!!! Understanding the changing nature of this field,
    it is VERY UNWISE to become too specialized in one area. By having the degree,
    you increase your chances of being retain by your employer when times become
    very lean. While it does not immune you from a layoff, it would certainly
    help to have it just in case you need to look for another job. You must look
    at this long-term. Allen needs to get his Bachelor's or very few to no employers
    will consider him, especially when employers have so many unemployed IT professionals
    to choose from. Just my opinion. PHIL

  9. #9
    MarkN Guest

    Re: Im an Entry Level Programmer trying to break in,and have yet to find an opening what should I do


    Phil, if you read my post, this is mostly what I said.

    >>
    >>Mark

    >
    >Hey Mark, it has been shown that a person who is non-degreed is usually

    the
    >first to be let go when times get tough.


    Agreed.

    >Because technology changes so rapidly(about 12 to 18 months to be exact),
    >many of these certificates become worthless very quickly.


    Agreed.

    >YOU NEED THE CS
    >DEGREE TO HAVE THE WELL-ROUNDED EDUCATION NEEDED TO (as you say)HAVE A LEG
    >UP IN THIS BUSINESS!!!!!


    Yes and No. You only get a leg up because employers perceive this to be
    true. Alot of the time spent in degree programs is wasted time (Basket weaving
    101). Also, most degreed programs are taught by educators and not real-world
    developers. (Fortunately for me, my classes were taught by those actually
    doing development during the day.) Everything needed to develop most applications
    can be learned via individual classes, books and OJT. There are many very
    good developers who don't have any degree. Unfortunately the prevailing
    thinking says that aren't as good as those with degrees.

    >Understanding the changing nature of this field,
    >it is VERY UNWISE to become too specialized in one area.


    Very true. I think that most CS degrees are too specialized and need to
    be broader.

    >By having the degree,
    >you increase your chances of being retain by your employer when times become
    >very lean.


    What does the degree have to do with it? It can only be perception on the
    employers part.

    >While it does not immune you from a layoff, it would certainly
    >help to have it just in case you need to look for another job. You must

    look
    >at this long-term. Allen needs to get his Bachelor's or very few to no employers
    >will consider him, especially when employers have so many unemployed IT

    professionals
    >to choose from.


    Agreed. I said he should get the sheepskin. But, for the most part, it
    is just that. He may be bored for 4 years(more or less) but because many
    employers think it is important - it is and he should get one.

    The other option is to work for oneself.

    Mark

  10. #10
    PHIL Guest

    Re: Im an Entry Level Programmer trying to break in,and have yet to find an opening what should I do


    "MarkN" <m@n.com> wrote:
    >
    >Phil, if you read my post, this is mostly what I said.
    >
    >>>
    >>>Mark

    >>
    >>Hey Mark, it has been shown that a person who is non-degreed is usually

    >the
    >>first to be let go when times get tough.

    >
    >Agreed.
    >
    >>Because technology changes so rapidly(about 12 to 18 months to be exact),
    >>many of these certificates become worthless very quickly.

    >
    >Agreed.
    >
    >>YOU NEED THE CS
    >>DEGREE TO HAVE THE WELL-ROUNDED EDUCATION NEEDED TO (as you say)HAVE A

    LEG
    >>UP IN THIS BUSINESS!!!!!

    >
    >Yes and No. You only get a leg up because employers perceive this to be
    >true. Alot of the time spent in degree programs is wasted time (Basket

    weaving
    >101). Also, most degreed programs are taught by educators and not real-world
    >developers. (Fortunately for me, my classes were taught by those actually
    >doing development during the day.) Everything needed to develop most applications
    >can be learned via individual classes, books and OJT. There are many very
    >good developers who don't have any degree. Unfortunately the prevailing
    >thinking says that aren't as good as those with degrees.
    >
    >>Understanding the changing nature of this field,
    >>it is VERY UNWISE to become too specialized in one area.

    >
    >Very true. I think that most CS degrees are too specialized and need to
    >be broader.
    >
    >>By having the degree,
    >>you increase your chances of being retain by your employer when times become
    >>very lean.

    >
    >What does the degree have to do with it? It can only be perception on the
    >employers part.
    >
    >>While it does not immune you from a layoff, it would certainly
    >>help to have it just in case you need to look for another job. You must

    >look
    >>at this long-term. Allen needs to get his Bachelor's or very few to no

    employers
    >>will consider him, especially when employers have so many unemployed IT

    >professionals
    >>to choose from.

    >
    >Agreed. I said he should get the sheepskin. But, for the most part, it
    >is just that. He may be bored for 4 years(more or less) but because many
    >employers think it is important - it is and he should get one.
    >
    >The other option is to work for oneself.
    >
    >Mark


    Hey Mark. Phil here. Your points are well taken. You are absolutely right
    about some CS programs that are too shallow in course content. This I agree
    with. However, when selecting a program, it's very wise to do your homework
    to find out how well a program has been developed. Simply put, it depends
    on the school offering the program. Some are very good and others aren't
    worth a mouth full of cold water. The reason why I keep saying get your degree
    is because number one, you do tend to get a bit more knowledge and number
    two, employers unfortunately have a phobia for people not having a degree.
    Their mindset is "you know more if you have your degree". This of course
    is NOT always true. But be that as it may, it's wise to have it just in case
    (what if so to speak).

    As for your comment about working for yourself, I support this 1000 percent!!
    It amazes me to hear about all of these unemployed IT workers. Anybody that's
    been in this business long enough should know that CS is about innovation
    and what you can create for the benefit of all. Why do all these people have
    a mindset on looking for jobs when they can make more working for themselves?
    Now you might say not everybody is cut out to work for themselves but I think
    that point is moot. The only that an employer can truly offer, especially
    in today's economy is verified paid experience. In this business, companies
    are here today, gone tomorrow. Brutal I admit, but this the reality. Another
    harsh reality is that EVERYBODY is a temporary employee. The 40 year career
    with benefits and retirement are LONG, LONG GONE!! It's a new game out there
    and most don't like it. Therefore, it makes sense to me that people should
    think about some form of self-employment because when it all comes down to
    it, YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN ANYWAY!! Just my opinion. PHIL

  11. #11
    Elena Guest

    Re: Im an Entry Level Programmer trying to break in,and have yet to find an opening what should I do


    >>As for your comment about working for yourself, I support this 1000 percent!!

    It amazes me to hear about all of these unemployed IT workers.<<

    I have nothing against having your own business if that's the way you want
    to go - - but it is not a cure for unemployment. I suggest you stop by www.realrates.com/bbs
    and soak up some of the ambience of a large group of independent consultants
    who have been out of work for months.

  12. #12
    MarkN Guest

    Re: Im an Entry Level Programmer trying to break in,and have yet to find an opening what should I do


    "Elena" <egermano@comcast.net> wrote:
    >
    >>>As for your comment about working for yourself, I support this 1000 percent!!

    >It amazes me to hear about all of these unemployed IT workers.<<
    >
    >I have nothing against having your own business if that's the way you want
    >to go - - but it is not a cure for unemployment. I suggest you stop by www.realrates.com/bbs
    >and soak up some of the ambience of a large group of independent consultants
    >who have been out of work for months.


    My point was diversification, skills and 'employer'. This is very difficult
    if one is an employee. Unfortunately there is no such thing as a permanent
    employee anymore and we need to realize this and plan for it. Deversification
    will not prevent undemployment but it will less the chance and affect.

    What is considered as an independent consultant? What are their skillsets?
    Answering this will probably explain why many of them are.

    Mark

  13. #13
    PHIL Guest

    Re: Im an Entry Level Programmer trying to break in,and have yet to find an opening what should I do


    "Elena" <egermano@comcast.net> wrote:
    >
    >>>As for your comment about working for yourself, I support this 1000 percent!!

    >It amazes me to hear about all of these unemployed IT workers.<<
    >
    >I have nothing against having your own business if that's the way you want
    >to go - - but it is not a cure for unemployment. I suggest you stop by www.realrates.com/bbs
    >and soak up some of the ambience of a large group of independent consultants
    >who have been out of work for months.


    Elena, there are a couple of sayings that describe the business world quite
    well. They are: "Business is a game of inches" and "Don't compete, CREATE!!
    Find out what everybody else is doing and then DON'T DO IT!!" People who
    live by those sayings are those who stand out from the pack, those who take
    charge of their lives, but most important, those who WILL NOT wait for opportunity,
    but insist on getting and creating it. If you wait for opportunity, it may
    never happen. The same principle applies to the unemployed IT workers. They're
    waiting for jobs to open up. I would think that as much experience as they
    have that would be able to create their own opportunities. But as I see it,
    they are nothing more than followers in a pack all competing AGAINST each
    other for so-call jobs that offer no growth and questionable security. The
    pack isn't going anywhere! The only thing employers care about are their
    profits. Are far as they are concerned, the employee is an expendable item
    to be used until it can't be used again. Then, it is toss aside like an old
    oily rag and forgotten about as many people can attest.

    Unfortunately, we still have people with mindsets that they will retire from
    jobs. If they believe that, then I will convince them that there's oceanfront
    property in Kansas!!

    Now I will confess something to you. I am a rookie/student in this business
    with still a lot to learn. But at the same time, I've done my homework. I'm
    a 42 year old black male who sees the opportunities for CS to be limitless.
    Therefore, how well I do will depend on how well I recognize opportunity
    and take advantage of it, but most important, create it. In my opinion, that's
    the key. But as I look at our economy, I am convinced of one thing, when
    it comes to your livelihood, stop depending on employers and create opportunity
    because in the end, YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN!! My two cents worth. PHIL


  14. #14
    Elena Guest

    Re: Im an Entry Level Programmer trying to break in,and have yet to find an opening what should I do


    >>What is considered as an independent consultant? What are their skillsets?

    > Answering this will probably explain why many of them are.
    >
    >Mark


    An independent consultant does anything any other IT person does - - he just
    owns his own business while doing it. It has nothing to do with skillset.
    It has to do with the type of relationship you have with the person "buying"
    your skills. Some find their own clients, some work thru job "brokers" that
    take a cut of the billing rate. As for skills, some are in network admin,
    some in applications development, some in architecture, whatever. Any language,
    any OS, any tools.

    Actually, the market for consulting skills is so wretched right now that
    many are considering going back to FTE jobs just to get some money coming
    back in the door.

    Elena

  15. #15
    MarkN Guest

    Re: Im an Entry Level Programmer trying to break in,and have yet to find an opening what should I do


    "Elena" <egermano@comcast.net> wrote:
    >
    >>>What is considered as an independent consultant? What are their skillsets?

    >> Answering this will probably explain why many of them are.
    >>
    >>Mark

    >
    >An independent consultant does anything any other IT person does - - he

    just
    >owns his own business while doing it.


    From my experience there is a difference between independent 'consultants'
    and 'FTE's. Typcially, an independent spends more time learning new things
    and expanding their skillset. They have to. FTEs have more of tendancy
    of only 'learning' when the company pays for it (there are good ones who
    break this mold ).

    Independents must differentiate themselves. If they can't, then they are
    at great risk of being out of work. Companies typically like to have employees.
    They make more money off them and can control them more. So why deal with
    independents if they bring nothing extra.

    >It has nothing to do with skillset.


    It does typically affect it though.

    >
    >Actually, the market for consulting skills is so wretched right now that
    >many are considering going back to FTE jobs just to get some money coming
    >back in the door.
    >

    This is very sad.

    I wasn't saying that everyone should be a independent 'consultant'. There
    are more ways to have a business in this industry. I would say that being
    an 'independant consultant' is the lowest on my list. Why? Because there
    are only so many hours in a day and an IC gets payed by the hour.



Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
HTML5 Development Center
 
 
FAQ
Latest Articles
Java
.NET
XML
Database
Enterprise
Questions? Contact us.
C++
Web Development
Wireless
Latest Tips
Open Source


   Development Centers

   -- Android Development Center
   -- Cloud Development Project Center
   -- HTML5 Development Center
   -- Windows Mobile Development Center