Any ideas about smart career networking in IT?


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Thread: Any ideas about smart career networking in IT?

  1. #1
    ML Guest

    Any ideas about smart career networking in IT?

    Hello everyone,

    I've been told that the best way in any field to find a job is by
    networking, or in other words, meeting IT decision makers by setting up
    "informational interviews" and then have those people refer you to other
    people.

    However, from my experience in IT, instead of referrals to more decision
    making people, I continually get referred to recruiters, which is what a
    job candidate is trying to avoid in the process of career networking.

    Some fanatical career networking advisers I know insist that it does'nt
    matter what you know, but what you do need to show is passion for the
    position that you are pursuing. However, the IT decision makers that
    I've dealt with already assume that you are looking for a job, and that
    the business of conducting "informational interviews" doesn't seem to
    register with them. Is there some nuance or step that I'm missing in
    the process? Or is my sneaking suspicion, that what you know in IT
    really does count more than who you do know correct?

    Do any of you have any luck penetrating small business using these kinds
    of techniques?

    I've had a few years of experience COBOL programming during Y2K and have
    partially engineered a switch to Java. What I mean by partially is that
    I've taken a class and have it working on a website I'm hosting at home
    for a non-profit (www.ocachicago.org). However, I am looking for a
    means to getting more meatier experience.


  2. #2
    Steve Guest

    Re: Any ideas about smart career networking in IT?


    Don't be surprised with the response. IT people are more than happy to discuss
    their needs, but aren't about to invest in keeping track of, or conducting
    informal discussions using their company's time for other company's potential
    needs. That *is* what recruiters are there for, so I certainly wouldn't avoid
    them.

    If you're looking for a Java development position and don't have very much
    Java experience, expect this to take a while if the market remains sluggish.
    Recruiters can be expensive for companies, and generally aren't used for
    entry level positions. Your best bet is a lot of canvassing, and looking
    at "foot in the door" style positions such as Testers for companies that
    use Java. Indicate your interest & experience in development, and ask them
    about whether migrating to development is an option at a later time.

    What I'd recommend is using a short & sweet letter inquiring about possible
    positions, indicating a brief skill-set & experience, and express your inquiry
    based on your interest. I.e. "I'm currently focussing on developing a career
    in Java development..." I probably wouldn't even include a resume. If they're
    interested in considering you, or assisting you by passing info along, they'll
    ask to see your resume.

    Steve.


    ML <mlo888@usa.net> wrote:
    >Hello everyone,
    >
    >I've been told that the best way in any field to find a job is by
    >networking, or in other words, meeting IT decision makers by setting up


    >"informational interviews" and then have those people refer you to other


    >people.
    >
    >However, from my experience in IT, instead of referrals to more decision


    >making people, I continually get referred to recruiters, which is what a


    >job candidate is trying to avoid in the process of career networking.
    >
    >Some fanatical career networking advisers I know insist that it does'nt


    >matter what you know, but what you do need to show is passion for the
    >position that you are pursuing. However, the IT decision makers that
    >I've dealt with already assume that you are looking for a job, and that


    >the business of conducting "informational interviews" doesn't seem to
    >register with them. Is there some nuance or step that I'm missing in
    >the process? Or is my sneaking suspicion, that what you know in IT
    >really does count more than who you do know correct?
    >
    >Do any of you have any luck penetrating small business using these kinds


    >of techniques?
    >
    >I've had a few years of experience COBOL programming during Y2K and have


    >partially engineered a switch to Java. What I mean by partially is that


    >I've taken a class and have it working on a website I'm hosting at home


    >for a non-profit (www.ocachicago.org). However, I am looking for a
    >means to getting more meatier experience.
    >



  3. #3
    Elena Guest

    Re: Any ideas about smart career networking in IT?


    The "informational interview" is an idea that was in vogue a few years back
    but is basically worthless now. I'm not sure it ever yielded a lot of results
    but it certainly sold books for whoever came up with the idea.

    Basically, business people aren't keen on spending a lot of time on what
    is often a thinly-disguised job pitch which is why you're getting referred
    to recruiters. I'm not drawing any conclusions about you personally, I'm
    just saying you're not the first one to try this idea.

    In brief, if you want to network with business people, it needs to be in
    what they perceive as a productive context - - not one where you are asking
    for something but one where you are helping them reach their goals. I'm
    thinking of things like various business professional groups, charity, or
    chamber-of-commerce-type things. You offer to help plan the luncheon, be
    secretary for the meetings, serve on a committee, whatever. It takes a lot
    of sustained contact over time - - this won't happen over night and requires
    a substantial investment in time. I personally don't know of any shortcuts.


    Elena

  4. #4
    simon Guest

    Re: Any ideas about smart career networking in IT?


    I don't know about the others, but in my "dictionary", "networking" <> "informational
    interviews". Networking, IMHO, is to have/make friends in different companies/industries,
    to attend professional meetings and special interest group/user meetings.

    Most companies like to hire people referred by current employees than a total
    stranger. Saving money (i.e. fees to recruiters which could be as high as
    30% of your annual salary) is one factor. But more important is to have
    someone who knows you well and knows that you can work with the team. These
    "referers" DO NOT have to be the decision-makers. They just need to know
    who to submit the referral and must have good relationship with the management,
    of course.

    DO NOT keep the recuiters out of your job-search equation. They should be
    an important part. You just have to screen out the bad ones, and yes, there
    are a lot of them out there.

    Hate to tell you that, but legacy system experience do not count in job search
    nowadays. It is wrong, but it is also reality (and that's another discussion).

    Since your Java experience is very limited, it is very difficult to find
    a job that can give you "meatier experience". They are going to demand more
    from you.... things like J2EE and JavaBean.

    As the other poster suggested, you might have to find a different job that
    can ease you into the Java programming in the near future. It is tough and
    there is no guarantee. Sometimes you just have to be at the right place
    on the right time. But at this economic slowdown, nobody is hiring an entry-level
    Java programmer.... there are too many out there.

    Just hang in there, position yourself, wait for the economic turn-around,
    and your luck might change.

    Hope this helps.

    simon.


    ML <mlo888@usa.net> wrote:
    >Hello everyone,
    >
    >I've been told that the best way in any field to find a job is by
    >networking, or in other words, meeting IT decision makers by setting up


    >"informational interviews" and then have those people refer you to other


    >people.
    >
    >However, from my experience in IT, instead of referrals to more decision


    >making people, I continually get referred to recruiters, which is what a


    >job candidate is trying to avoid in the process of career networking.
    >
    >Some fanatical career networking advisers I know insist that it does'nt


    >matter what you know, but what you do need to show is passion for the
    >position that you are pursuing. However, the IT decision makers that
    >I've dealt with already assume that you are looking for a job, and that


    >the business of conducting "informational interviews" doesn't seem to
    >register with them. Is there some nuance or step that I'm missing in
    >the process? Or is my sneaking suspicion, that what you know in IT
    >really does count more than who you do know correct?
    >
    >Do any of you have any luck penetrating small business using these kinds


    >of techniques?
    >
    >I've had a few years of experience COBOL programming during Y2K and have


    >partially engineered a switch to Java. What I mean by partially is that


    >I've taken a class and have it working on a website I'm hosting at home


    >for a non-profit (www.ocachicago.org). However, I am looking for a
    >means to getting more meatier experience.
    >



  5. #5
    MarkN Guest

    Re: Any ideas about smart career networking in IT?


    ML,
    Don't count out your Legacy skills just yet. There is a lot of COBOL (etc.)
    code out there and many of those who know it are beginning to retire. This
    is especially true in the Government sector. So going forward, these companies/organizations
    will have choice: stay with what they have, convert or hook old systems to
    new. Those with both old and news skills will have the best chance at these
    jobs (you will find exceptions). Some companies (would like to say many)
    are continuing to develop in legacy languages because their people know them,
    they are 'easy to learn' and 'take less time to get into production'. I'm
    not saying I agree with these things but perception is more important than
    reality sometimes.

    A question. What Java have you done on your website? Are you doing applets?
    Servlets? The reason I ask is because way too many people confuse Java
    with Javascript. They have some syntax and some concepts in common but they
    really are different.

    Mark

    "simon" <substring0NOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >I don't know about the others, but in my "dictionary", "networking" <> "informational
    >interviews". Networking, IMHO, is to have/make friends in different companies/industries,
    >to attend professional meetings and special interest group/user meetings.
    >
    >Most companies like to hire people referred by current employees than a

    total
    >stranger. Saving money (i.e. fees to recruiters which could be as high

    as
    >30% of your annual salary) is one factor. But more important is to have
    >someone who knows you well and knows that you can work with the team. These
    >"referers" DO NOT have to be the decision-makers. They just need to know
    >who to submit the referral and must have good relationship with the management,
    >of course.
    >
    >DO NOT keep the recuiters out of your job-search equation. They should

    be
    >an important part. You just have to screen out the bad ones, and yes, there
    >are a lot of them out there.
    >
    >Hate to tell you that, but legacy system experience do not count in job

    search
    >nowadays. It is wrong, but it is also reality (and that's another discussion).
    >
    >Since your Java experience is very limited, it is very difficult to find
    >a job that can give you "meatier experience". They are going to demand

    more
    >from you.... things like J2EE and JavaBean.
    >
    >As the other poster suggested, you might have to find a different job that
    >can ease you into the Java programming in the near future. It is tough

    and
    >there is no guarantee. Sometimes you just have to be at the right place
    >on the right time. But at this economic slowdown, nobody is hiring an entry-level
    >Java programmer.... there are too many out there.
    >
    >Just hang in there, position yourself, wait for the economic turn-around,
    >and your luck might change.
    >
    >Hope this helps.
    >
    >simon.
    >
    >
    >ML <mlo888@usa.net> wrote:
    >>Hello everyone,
    >>
    >>I've been told that the best way in any field to find a job is by
    >>networking, or in other words, meeting IT decision makers by setting up

    >
    >>"informational interviews" and then have those people refer you to other

    >
    >>people.
    >>
    >>However, from my experience in IT, instead of referrals to more decision

    >
    >>making people, I continually get referred to recruiters, which is what

    a
    >
    >>job candidate is trying to avoid in the process of career networking.
    >>
    >>Some fanatical career networking advisers I know insist that it does'nt

    >
    >>matter what you know, but what you do need to show is passion for the


    >>position that you are pursuing. However, the IT decision makers that
    >>I've dealt with already assume that you are looking for a job, and that

    >
    >>the business of conducting "informational interviews" doesn't seem to
    >>register with them. Is there some nuance or step that I'm missing in
    >>the process? Or is my sneaking suspicion, that what you know in IT
    >>really does count more than who you do know correct?
    >>
    >>Do any of you have any luck penetrating small business using these kinds

    >
    >>of techniques?
    >>
    >>I've had a few years of experience COBOL programming during Y2K and have

    >
    >>partially engineered a switch to Java. What I mean by partially is that

    >
    >>I've taken a class and have it working on a website I'm hosting at home

    >
    >>for a non-profit (www.ocachicago.org). However, I am looking for a
    >>means to getting more meatier experience.
    >>

    >



  6. #6
    ML Guest

    Re: Any ideas about smart career networking in IT?

    MarkN wrote:
    > ML,
    > Don't count out your Legacy skills just yet. There is a lot of COBOL (etc.)
    > code out there and many of those who know it are beginning to retire. This
    > is especially true in the Government sector. So going forward, these companies/organizations
    > will have choice: stay with what they have, convert or hook old systems to
    > new. Those with both old and news skills will have the best chance at these
    > jobs (you will find exceptions). Some companies (would like to say many)
    > are continuing to develop in legacy languages because their people know them,
    > they are 'easy to learn' and 'take less time to get into production'. I'm
    > not saying I agree with these things but perception is more important than
    > reality sometimes.
    >
    > A question. What Java have you done on your website? Are you doing applets?
    > Servlets? The reason I ask is because way too many people confuse Java
    > with Javascript. They have some syntax and some concepts in common but they
    > really are different.
    >
    > Mark
    >
    > "simon" <substring0NOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >>I don't know about the others, but in my "dictionary", "networking" <> "informational
    >>interviews". Networking, IMHO, is to have/make friends in different companies/industries,
    >>to attend professional meetings and special interest group/user meetings.
    >>
    >>Most companies like to hire people referred by current employees than a
    >>

    > total
    >
    >>stranger. Saving money (i.e. fees to recruiters which could be as high
    >>

    > as
    >
    >>30% of your annual salary) is one factor. But more important is to have
    >>someone who knows you well and knows that you can work with the team. These
    >>"referers" DO NOT have to be the decision-makers. They just need to know
    >>who to submit the referral and must have good relationship with the management,
    >>of course.
    >>
    >>DO NOT keep the recuiters out of your job-search equation. They should
    >>

    > be
    >
    >>an important part. You just have to screen out the bad ones, and yes, there
    >>are a lot of them out there.
    >>
    >>Hate to tell you that, but legacy system experience do not count in job
    >>

    > search
    >
    >>nowadays. It is wrong, but it is also reality (and that's another discussion).
    >>
    >>Since your Java experience is very limited, it is very difficult to find
    >>a job that can give you "meatier experience". They are going to demand
    >>

    > more
    >>from you.... things like J2EE and JavaBean.

    >
    >>As the other poster suggested, you might have to find a different job that
    >>can ease you into the Java programming in the near future. It is tough
    >>

    > and
    >
    >>there is no guarantee. Sometimes you just have to be at the right place
    >>on the right time. But at this economic slowdown, nobody is hiring an entry-level
    >>Java programmer.... there are too many out there.
    >>
    >>Just hang in there, position yourself, wait for the economic turn-around,
    >>and your luck might change.
    >>
    >>Hope this helps.
    >>
    >>simon.
    >>
    >>
    >>ML <mlo888@usa.net> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Hello everyone,
    >>>
    >>>I've been told that the best way in any field to find a job is by
    >>>networking, or in other words, meeting IT decision makers by setting up
    >>>
    >>>"informational interviews" and then have those people refer you to other
    >>>
    >>>people.
    >>>
    >>>However, from my experience in IT, instead of referrals to more decision
    >>>
    >>>making people, I continually get referred to recruiters, which is what
    >>>

    > a
    >
    >>>job candidate is trying to avoid in the process of career networking.
    >>>
    >>>Some fanatical career networking advisers I know insist that it does'nt
    >>>
    >>>matter what you know, but what you do need to show is passion for the
    >>>

    >
    >>>position that you are pursuing. However, the IT decision makers that
    >>>I've dealt with already assume that you are looking for a job, and that
    >>>
    >>>the business of conducting "informational interviews" doesn't seem to
    >>>register with them. Is there some nuance or step that I'm missing in
    >>>the process? Or is my sneaking suspicion, that what you know in IT
    >>>really does count more than who you do know correct?
    >>>
    >>>Do any of you have any luck penetrating small business using these kinds
    >>>
    >>>of techniques?
    >>>
    >>>I've had a few years of experience COBOL programming during Y2K and have
    >>>
    >>>partially engineered a switch to Java. What I mean by partially is that
    >>>
    >>>I've taken a class and have it working on a website I'm hosting at home
    >>>
    >>>for a non-profit (www.ocachicago.org). However, I am looking for a
    >>>means to getting more meatier experience.
    >>>
    >>>

    >


    First of all... A great thanks to all of you who have posted.... To
    answer your question about what Java I have on the site, First of all, I
    have an applet running to create the banner. Secondly, I have a servlet
    running to create the login box which leads to a servlet-JDBC
    application. If some prospective employers want to check it out, I
    provide them with a log in.


  7. #7
    ML Guest

    Re: Any ideas about smart career networking in IT?

    simon wrote:
    > I don't know about the others, but in my "dictionary", "networking" <> "informational
    > interviews". Networking, IMHO, is to have/make friends in different companies/industries,
    > to attend professional meetings and special interest group/user meetings.
    >
    > Most companies like to hire people referred by current employees than a total
    > stranger. Saving money (i.e. fees to recruiters which could be as high as
    > 30% of your annual salary) is one factor. But more important is to have
    > someone who knows you well and knows that you can work with the team. These
    > "referers" DO NOT have to be the decision-makers. They just need to know
    > who to submit the referral and must have good relationship with the management,
    > of course.
    >
    > DO NOT keep the recuiters out of your job-search equation. They should be
    > an important part. You just have to screen out the bad ones, and yes, there
    > are a lot of them out there.
    >
    > Hate to tell you that, but legacy system experience do not count in job search
    > nowadays. It is wrong, but it is also reality (and that's another discussion).
    >
    > Since your Java experience is very limited, it is very difficult to find
    > a job that can give you "meatier experience". They are going to demand more
    > from you.... things like J2EE and JavaBean.
    >
    > As the other poster suggested, you might have to find a different job that
    > can ease you into the Java programming in the near future. It is tough and
    > there is no guarantee. Sometimes you just have to be at the right place
    > on the right time. But at this economic slowdown, nobody is hiring an entry-level
    > Java programmer.... there are too many out there.
    >
    > Just hang in there, position yourself, wait for the economic turn-around,
    > and your luck might change.
    >
    > Hope this helps.
    >
    > simon.
    >
    >
    > ML <mlo888@usa.net> wrote:
    >
    >>Hello everyone,
    >>
    >>I've been told that the best way in any field to find a job is by
    >>networking, or in other words, meeting IT decision makers by setting up
    >>

    >
    >>"informational interviews" and then have those people refer you to other
    >>

    >
    >>people.
    >>
    >>However, from my experience in IT, instead of referrals to more decision
    >>

    >
    >>making people, I continually get referred to recruiters, which is what a
    >>

    >
    >>job candidate is trying to avoid in the process of career networking.
    >>
    >>Some fanatical career networking advisers I know insist that it does'nt
    >>

    >
    >>matter what you know, but what you do need to show is passion for the
    >>position that you are pursuing. However, the IT decision makers that
    >>I've dealt with already assume that you are looking for a job, and that
    >>

    >
    >>the business of conducting "informational interviews" doesn't seem to
    >>register with them. Is there some nuance or step that I'm missing in
    >>the process? Or is my sneaking suspicion, that what you know in IT
    >>really does count more than who you do know correct?
    >>
    >>Do any of you have any luck penetrating small business using these kinds
    >>

    >
    >>of techniques?
    >>
    >>I've had a few years of experience COBOL programming during Y2K and have
    >>

    >
    >>partially engineered a switch to Java. What I mean by partially is that
    >>

    >
    >>I've taken a class and have it working on a website I'm hosting at home
    >>

    >
    >>for a non-profit (www.ocachicago.org). However, I am looking for a
    >>means to getting more meatier experience.
    >>
    >>

    >


    Thanks for the advice.... Since you mention beans and J2EE, can you
    recommend any good websites/books dealing with these topics?

    I have also been attending the local Java users group meetings in my
    area and by a some stroke of luck, I managed to win IBM Websphere Studio
    in a lottery. Can any of you recommend websites/books about learning this?


  8. #8
    MarkN Guest

    Re: Any ideas about smart career networking in IT?


    >
    >Thanks for the advice.... Since you mention beans and J2EE, can you
    >recommend any good websites/books dealing with these topics?
    >
    >I have also been attending the local Java users group meetings in my
    >area and by a some stroke of luck, I managed to win IBM Websphere Studio


    >in a lottery. Can any of you recommend websites/books about learning this?
    >


    I wouldn't bother much with 'Javabeans'. Spend more time with core Java
    and J2EE technologies. And don't get caught up in the EJB and Web services
    hype(s)

    www.theserverside.com
    www.ibm.com/developerworks
    www.javaworld.com
    www.java.orielly.com
    java.sun.com
    www.apache.org
    www.sys-con.com/java
    www.javalobby.org

    As for books - anything from O'Reilly or WROX.


    By Websphere Studio do you mean 'Websphere Studio' or 'Websphere Studio Application
    Developer'?



  9. #9
    simon Guest

    Re: Any ideas about smart career networking in IT?


    Best practices for writing EJBs and architecting J2EE based solutions
    are available at http://java.sun.com/j2ee/blueprints/index.html. I found

    the design patterns section in there to be very useful.

    And the following links have some interesting articles on Java development
    and its future...

    Java's Future:
    http://www.fawcette.com/reports/java...02/roundtable/

    Java App Development Trends:
    http://www.fawcette.com/reports/java...apro_presents/

    Sun's Java Plans:
    http://www.fawcette.com/reports/javaone/032702/keynote/

    As of IBM Websphere, I am not familiar with it. As a matter of fact, all
    the IBM I have ever worked with are AS400 and Lotus Notes, and that's enough
    IBM for me, ha.

    Hope this helps.

    simon.


    ML <mlo888@usa.net> wrote:
    >simon wrote:
    >> I don't know about the others, but in my "dictionary", "networking" <>

    "informational
    >> interviews". Networking, IMHO, is to have/make friends in different companies/industries,
    >> to attend professional meetings and special interest group/user meetings.
    >>
    >> Most companies like to hire people referred by current employees than

    a total
    >> stranger. Saving money (i.e. fees to recruiters which could be as high

    as
    >> 30% of your annual salary) is one factor. But more important is to have
    >> someone who knows you well and knows that you can work with the team.

    These
    >> "referers" DO NOT have to be the decision-makers. They just need to know
    >> who to submit the referral and must have good relationship with the management,
    >> of course.
    >>
    >> DO NOT keep the recuiters out of your job-search equation. They should

    be
    >> an important part. You just have to screen out the bad ones, and yes,

    there
    >> are a lot of them out there.
    >>
    >> Hate to tell you that, but legacy system experience do not count in job

    search
    >> nowadays. It is wrong, but it is also reality (and that's another discussion).
    >>
    >> Since your Java experience is very limited, it is very difficult to find
    >> a job that can give you "meatier experience". They are going to demand

    more
    >> from you.... things like J2EE and JavaBean.
    >>
    >> As the other poster suggested, you might have to find a different job

    that
    >> can ease you into the Java programming in the near future. It is tough

    and
    >> there is no guarantee. Sometimes you just have to be at the right place
    >> on the right time. But at this economic slowdown, nobody is hiring an

    entry-level
    >> Java programmer.... there are too many out there.
    >>
    >> Just hang in there, position yourself, wait for the economic turn-around,
    >> and your luck might change.
    >>
    >> Hope this helps.
    >>
    >> simon.
    >>
    >>
    >> ML <mlo888@usa.net> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Hello everyone,
    >>>
    >>>I've been told that the best way in any field to find a job is by
    >>>networking, or in other words, meeting IT decision makers by setting up
    >>>

    >>
    >>>"informational interviews" and then have those people refer you to other
    >>>

    >>
    >>>people.
    >>>
    >>>However, from my experience in IT, instead of referrals to more decision
    >>>

    >>
    >>>making people, I continually get referred to recruiters, which is what

    a
    >>>

    >>
    >>>job candidate is trying to avoid in the process of career networking.
    >>>
    >>>Some fanatical career networking advisers I know insist that it does'nt
    >>>

    >>
    >>>matter what you know, but what you do need to show is passion for the


    >>>position that you are pursuing. However, the IT decision makers that


    >>>I've dealt with already assume that you are looking for a job, and that
    >>>

    >>
    >>>the business of conducting "informational interviews" doesn't seem to


    >>>register with them. Is there some nuance or step that I'm missing in


    >>>the process? Or is my sneaking suspicion, that what you know in IT
    >>>really does count more than who you do know correct?
    >>>
    >>>Do any of you have any luck penetrating small business using these kinds
    >>>

    >>
    >>>of techniques?
    >>>
    >>>I've had a few years of experience COBOL programming during Y2K and have
    >>>

    >>
    >>>partially engineered a switch to Java. What I mean by partially is that
    >>>

    >>
    >>>I've taken a class and have it working on a website I'm hosting at home
    >>>

    >>
    >>>for a non-profit (www.ocachicago.org). However, I am looking for a
    >>>means to getting more meatier experience.
    >>>
    >>>

    >>

    >
    >Thanks for the advice.... Since you mention beans and J2EE, can you
    >recommend any good websites/books dealing with these topics?
    >
    >I have also been attending the local Java users group meetings in my
    >area and by a some stroke of luck, I managed to win IBM Websphere Studio


    >in a lottery. Can any of you recommend websites/books about learning this?
    >



  10. #10
    MarkN Guest

    Re: Any ideas about smart career networking in IT?


    ">As of IBM Websphere, I am not familiar with it. As a matter of fact, all
    >the IBM I have ever worked with are AS400 and Lotus Notes, and that's enough
    >IBM for me, ha.


    Sorry your experience was not the best. I understand you feelings. Some
    things on the AS400 are not the best and Lotus Notes can be a pain if not
    used properly - which is usually the case.

    As for 'IBM Websphere' - well I use IBM products daily so here it goes.

    IBM is rebranding many of its products under the Websphere name. It use
    to mean the application server.

    Before Now
    Websphere Websphere Application Server
    VisualAge for Java and Websphere Studio Application Developer (and
    Websphere Studio variations)
    MQSeries Websphere MQ

    DB2 is also being incorporated in such away that it is 'disappearing'. Lotus
    Notes is beginning to use DB2 and Websphere. Who knows if it won't become
    Websphere Messaging and Collaberation.

    Mark


  11. #11
    simon Guest

    Re: Any ideas about smart career networking in IT?

    Thanks for the interesting info, Mark. IBM has always given me the
    impression of a huge corporate bureaucratic dinosaur that is very very slow
    to changes. They might be good at innovation, but terrible at marketing and
    terrible at customers support (this is based on my personal experience with
    their AS400 support team). I can almost see their senior management,
    sitting behind their mahogany desks, playing gods and lost touch with the
    customers/market needs.

    Anyway, I sure hope this "rebranding" works, for the sakes of those hard
    working developers in that company. =)

    simon.


    "MarkN" <m@n.com> wrote in message news:3d473b6f@10.1.10.29...
    >
    > ">As of IBM Websphere, I am not familiar with it. As a matter of fact,

    all
    > >the IBM I have ever worked with are AS400 and Lotus Notes, and that's

    enough
    > >IBM for me, ha.

    >
    > Sorry your experience was not the best. I understand you feelings. Some
    > things on the AS400 are not the best and Lotus Notes can be a pain if not
    > used properly - which is usually the case.
    >
    > As for 'IBM Websphere' - well I use IBM products daily so here it goes.
    >
    > IBM is rebranding many of its products under the Websphere name. It use
    > to mean the application server.
    >
    > Before Now
    > Websphere Websphere Application Server
    > VisualAge for Java and Websphere Studio Application Developer (and
    > Websphere Studio variations)
    > MQSeries Websphere MQ
    >
    > DB2 is also being incorporated in such away that it is 'disappearing'.

    Lotus
    > Notes is beginning to use DB2 and Websphere. Who knows if it won't become
    > Websphere Messaging and Collaberation.
    >
    > Mark
    >




  12. #12
    patch Guest

    Re: Any ideas about smart career networking in IT?

    MarkN wrote in message <3d473b6f@10.1.10.29>...
    [..]
    >As for 'IBM Websphere' - well I use IBM products daily so here it goes.
    >
    >IBM is rebranding many of its products under the Websphere name. It use
    >to mean the application server.
    >
    >Before Now
    >Websphere Websphere Application Server
    >VisualAge for Java and Websphere Studio Application Developer (and
    >Websphere Studio variations)
    >MQSeries Websphere MQ
    >
    >DB2 is also being incorporated in such away that it is 'disappearing'.

    Lotus
    >Notes is beginning to use DB2 and Websphere. Who knows if it won't become
    >Websphere Messaging and Collaberation.



    Hey Mark/group... is it save to assume

    MS .net == IBM Websphere?

    and maybe not litarly but as in idea/design/strategy?

    patch




  13. #13
    MarkN Guest

    Re: Any ideas about smart career networking in IT?


    I would say you have the right Idea. Sun is doing the same thing. MS is
    creating .Net servers, etc.

    I guess it is so people will get the idea that these things work together
    and are not just a database and a webserver and an ....
    The difference being that MS stuff pretty much only works with MS's stuff
    or on it. There are a few exceptions (i.e. .Net is supposed to work with
    Apache webserver - with an extra 'pay for' product) but then it is MS's stuff
    works better than anyone else's with their stuff.


    >Hey Mark/group... is it save to assume
    >
    >MS .net == IBM Websphere?
    >
    >and maybe not litarly but as in idea/design/strategy?
    >
    >patch
    >
    >
    >



  14. #14
    MarkN Guest

    Re: Any ideas about smart career networking in IT?


    Any large organization is like that (I do believe it is not a good thing).
    IBM is very large and is made up of many different parts and purchased companies.
    So that is why (sometimes) certain parts of their tools don't work well
    with others. But many of those have improved. For all the platforms and
    tools they support - things aren't so bad. And sometimes different divisions
    work better than others. I've had a pretty good experience with them. Part
    of the reason things seem to be bad is that they still seem to be skitish
    because of their own past legal issues. Also, as for Lotus Notes, they really
    were purchased by IBM 'recently'. It is a large product and does much more
    out of the box than any other product including Exchange. They seemed to
    have wanted to keep it separate until recently and the next version will
    incorporate some of the things I mentioned.

    They are trying to regain touch (as much as possible) and are trying to help
    out AS400 customers - they are offering them free upgrades to the new OS
    - and bring them into the new/current world. Although AS400 has been a good
    platform for Java.

    IBM isn't going away. Linux has been good for them and has breathed new
    life (or has seem to) into old products and given life to new.

    Mark


    "simon" <substring0NOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >Thanks for the interesting info, Mark. IBM has always given me the
    >impression of a huge corporate bureaucratic dinosaur that is very very slow
    >to changes. They might be good at innovation, but terrible at marketing

    and
    >terrible at customers support (this is based on my personal experience with
    >their AS400 support team). I can almost see their senior management,
    >sitting behind their mahogany desks, playing gods and lost touch with the
    >customers/market needs.
    >
    >Anyway, I sure hope this "rebranding" works, for the sakes of those hard
    >working developers in that company. =)
    >
    >simon.
    >
    >
    >"MarkN" <m@n.com> wrote in message news:3d473b6f@10.1.10.29...
    >>
    >> ">As of IBM Websphere, I am not familiar with it. As a matter of fact,

    >all
    >> >the IBM I have ever worked with are AS400 and Lotus Notes, and that's

    >enough
    >> >IBM for me, ha.

    >>
    >> Sorry your experience was not the best. I understand you feelings. Some
    >> things on the AS400 are not the best and Lotus Notes can be a pain if

    not
    >> used properly - which is usually the case.
    >>
    >> As for 'IBM Websphere' - well I use IBM products daily so here it goes.
    >>
    >> IBM is rebranding many of its products under the Websphere name. It use
    >> to mean the application server.
    >>
    >> Before Now
    >> Websphere Websphere Application Server
    >> VisualAge for Java and Websphere Studio Application Developer (and
    >> Websphere Studio variations)
    >> MQSeries Websphere MQ
    >>
    >> DB2 is also being incorporated in such away that it is 'disappearing'.

    >Lotus
    >> Notes is beginning to use DB2 and Websphere. Who knows if it won't become
    >> Websphere Messaging and Collaberation.
    >>
    >> Mark
    >>

    >
    >



  15. #15
    ML Guest

    Re: Any ideas about smart career networking in IT?

    MarkN wrote:
    >>Thanks for the advice.... Since you mention beans and J2EE, can you
    >>recommend any good websites/books dealing with these topics?
    >>
    >>I have also been attending the local Java users group meetings in my
    >>area and by a some stroke of luck, I managed to win IBM Websphere Studio
    >>

    >
    >>in a lottery. Can any of you recommend websites/books about learning this?
    >>
    >>

    >
    > I wouldn't bother much with 'Javabeans'. Spend more time with core Java
    > and J2EE technologies. And don't get caught up in the EJB and Web services
    > hype(s)
    >
    > www.theserverside.com
    > www.ibm.com/developerworks
    > www.javaworld.com
    > www.java.orielly.com
    > java.sun.com
    > www.apache.org
    > www.sys-con.com/java
    > www.javalobby.org
    >
    > As for books - anything from O'Reilly or WROX.
    >
    >
    > By Websphere Studio do you mean 'Websphere Studio' or 'Websphere Studio Application
    > Developer'?
    >
    >
    >


    I have IBM WebSphere Studio Application Developer for Windows, although
    I believe that there are some apps in the package that will work with
    Linux or Unix.

    J2EE eh? What makes EJB and Javabeans overrated?


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