Qualifications?

[Lithic]

A question for the professionals here, I was just wondering what qualifications are needed to get into the programming scene?

[mstraf]

I have a Physics degree from an Italian university, I did not have that mush trouble finding a job in the US and now I am responsible of screening possible candidates.
The importance of the qualification depends on the entry level. I usually do not count on that if a candidate has more than three years of job experience. And I do not count on Miscrosoft certifications, that in my opinion are just a reap off.
Marco

[Lithic]

So are you self-taught in Visual Basic?

[mstraf]

yep. my boss went to visit a company we bought, saw them in trouble and call me there. 'by the way, teach yourself visual basic' told me... that was, when, maybe '97?
Marco

[Lithic]

But what about the more advanced stuff - databases, APIs etc...?

What do you think is the minimum level of VB knowledge before you can work in the field, particularly when you don't have programming qualifications?

[mstraf]

that is a hard question, that is not easy to answer. It depends on the field, and on the job qualifications. For example, as a rule of thumb in my company we do not hire programmers with only VB knowledge, because we use VB only as front end. We have fun using it, all the GUI, main applications and user controls are written in VB, but everything else (services, libraries and real time code) is in C/C++ Right now, as we read this forum it is clear that VB by itself does not pay, most of the jobs require knowledge of some kind of database, because that is where VB is used mostly.
Marco

[Lithic]

Thakns for your reply Marco.

hmmm, but where are you staff getting their skills and experience with the more in-depth concepts - university courses, on-the-job...??

[mstraf]

College is a good way to start.
Unfortunatelly there are so many bad schools, maybe as much as bad students...
For examples there are too many students complaining 'why are they teaching me that instead of that', forgetting that a school must give 'formation', not 'information'. School should teach enough (it is impossible to learn 'everything' in four years) so that after they graduate students can learn on their own what is requested at the moment. Computer languages is one of these concepts. School should NOT teach VB, but C++ or C at least, because a C++ programmer can learn VB in two weeks, not vice versa.
Marco

[Anklebuster]

School should NOT teach VB, but C++ or C at least, because a C++ programmer can learn VB in two weeks, not vice versa.
Marco

I agree with Marco. Back in 1975, I discovered BASIC, fell in love with it and never came up for air. when I went to Temple University in 1979, I did learn FORTRAN, COBOL and Assembler, but nothing else. My best friend went to Penn State at the same time, picked up C and coded rings around me ever since.
I don't make any excuses: I just could not afford to pay for a C IDE package.
Whenever I want to do something really cool in VB6 - I have to really go through contortions (or browse the Devx forum for ideas!)

However, since I am not a professional, I make do. (Anybody got a FREE C++ package ?)

Anklebuster

[Lithic]

Thanks for the insights Anklebuster and Marco. C++ hey....one day I guess.
I've noticed plenty of free C++ compilers around but I'm not sure about an enture package.

[el__sid]

School should NOT teach VB, but C++ or C at least, because a C++ programmer can learn VB in two weeks, not vice versa.
Marco

How much is there to learn of c++?

I am currently doing VB at school and for us to learn it AND get used to it it took most of us the best part of 2-3 months (including hols), and thats just basic stuff (excuse the pun). And seeing as we have to cover 14 topics in 2 years (including massive projects using Excel and Access) we, and most other schools in the UK, wouldnt have time for C++/C.

Would still be nice tho, I'm getting ready for a computer programming degree this year and am going to get thrown in the deep end with C and C++ .

Karl

[MulaChula]

... anyone wanting to learn a "harder" (I have trouble picking my words) language at almost no cost should consider, imho, Java. SDK and development tools are for free, and there are excellent free on-line resources (do check Bruce Eckel's "Thinking in Java"). I learnt Java by myself using good old EMACS as developing environment and the book I mentioned. I do not work as a Java programmer, but it sure gave me new insights on programming.

Excuse me for being so off-topic!


mc

[Lithic]

Thanks for the responses everyone, none of it is 'off topic'.

MulaChula, your advice about Java is interesting, one day....

So it seems that to get any 'serious' programming done you need C++??
What about C#?

I guess though that being 'self-taught' in anything is not going to be enough to secure employment in that field though is it?

[mstraf]

I do not think that only C++ allows "serious' programming, although (sic) some people says yes. C is a great programming language to do almost everything. C++ adds native (almost) object oriented programming to C. But nothing equals VB for RAD, or Fortran for math, or Cobol for finance, or Eiffel for OOP. My point is: learn C, and from that everything is easy.

I prefer not to enter in the debate about C# and VB.NET... too much already (read other devx forums). Just one thing: they are just other Microsoft tools... at least C (or Java) do not lock you on any architecture.


Being 'self-tought' makes really hard to find a 'first' job. Remember that right now there is a pletora of programmers with one degree or another looking for a job. Someone has to put at least one application in the market before people start being interested.

Marco

[Lithic]

Thanks for the post Marco - whats "RAD" (as in VB for RAD)?

What do you mean by 'put one application on the market'?