C++ or Java ??


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Thread: C++ or Java ??

  1. #1
    Paul Guest

    C++ or Java ??


    I am currently trying to change careers into IT by taking an open university
    IT and Computing degree as well as studying for a C++ programmers course,
    and am trying to pre guess what the best programming language is to learn
    for 2 yrs on...C++ or Java ???, and would anyone have some good hints on
    how to overcome the "lack of experience" bit that comes with new careers
    in IT ??

  2. #2
    David K. Guest

    Re: C++ or Java ??


    I learned C++ before I learned Java, and I didn't have much trouble picking
    up the latter. Java borrows a lot of syntax from C++, so it's not too bad
    to pick it up if you know C++.

    I think C++ is a good general purpose language. It's used on a variety of
    platforms and in numerous types of applications. Ideally, though, you shouldn't
    limit yourself to one language. After you pick up a few languages, you'll
    soon realize that most share a lot of the same concepts. The important thing
    is to learn general programming techniques, like algorithms, data structures,
    software engineering, object-oriented analysis & design. That way you will
    be a good developer in ANY language.

    As far as hints for overcoming "lack of experience", there are already a
    lot of excellent posts on this board with a lot of great suggestions. Since
    you are going to school, see if your school has a career office. They may
    be able to help you get your foot in the door.

    "Paul" <Paulykins@btinternet.com> wrote:
    >
    >I am currently trying to change careers into IT by taking an open university
    >IT and Computing degree as well as studying for a C++ programmers course,
    >and am trying to pre guess what the best programming language is to learn
    >for 2 yrs on...C++ or Java ???, and would anyone have some good hints on
    >how to overcome the "lack of experience" bit that comes with new careers
    >in IT ??



  3. #3
    Jayson Guest

    Re: C++ or Java ??


    "Paul" <Paulykins@btinternet.com> wrote:
    >
    >I am currently trying to change careers into IT by taking an open university
    >IT and Computing degree as well as studying for a C++ programmers course,
    >and am trying to pre guess what the best programming language is to learn
    >for 2 yrs on...C++ or Java ???, and would anyone have some good hints on
    >how to overcome the "lack of experience" bit that comes with new careers
    >in IT ??


    Paul,
    I have learned a long time ago, that programming is very related to your
    personality. In this context, how curious are you about programming? If
    you're very curious, and have dreams about being an electron moving from
    transitor to another, turning bytes on and off, then I suggest C++. If you're
    purely a UI person, where all you think about is what users see, and don't
    have a care in the world how things are implemented behind the scenes, then
    go for Java. I really curl up in discontent on how you managed to compare
    C++ and Java. That's probably only because, I'm a VB/C++ lover and hate
    Java with a passion. There's issues behind that "hate" too, that we won't
    get into. If you want to learn a real programming language and recieve the
    self-content feeling in learning a challenging language, go for C++. Don't
    waste your time with Java, its going to go away, anyway. Believe me, Java
    won't provide you with Pazlov's self-actualized feeling.

    That's my humble opinion.
    Jayson

  4. #4
    Jayson Guest

    Re: C++ or Java ??


    I very much agree with David on his notion of learning concepts, rather than
    the language. If you learn what he mentioned, and really understand the
    concepts behind them, you'll set yourself apart from other developers.

    DO NOT RELY on schooling alone. I've been down that path, and got really
    frustrated with it. Before I landed a developer job, school was everything
    to me. I loved going there and just being in front of VB and C++. However,
    when I got my "foot" in the door, everything became tedious. I saw that
    my school (I won't mention the name), wasn't really teaching me what I needed
    to learn. I learned far more than I ever could've in the two weeks at my
    new job than I would've at school. Use schooling as a tool and a tool only.

    Pursue your interests, delve into subjects, and most importantly, explore.
    Question everything.

    "David K." <davidk@nospam.com> wrote:
    >
    >I learned C++ before I learned Java, and I didn't have much trouble picking
    >up the latter. Java borrows a lot of syntax from C++, so it's not too bad
    >to pick it up if you know C++.
    >
    >I think C++ is a good general purpose language. It's used on a variety

    of
    >platforms and in numerous types of applications. Ideally, though, you shouldn't
    >limit yourself to one language. After you pick up a few languages, you'll
    >soon realize that most share a lot of the same concepts. The important

    thing
    >is to learn general programming techniques, like algorithms, data structures,
    >software engineering, object-oriented analysis & design. That way you will
    >be a good developer in ANY language.
    >
    >As far as hints for overcoming "lack of experience", there are already a
    >lot of excellent posts on this board with a lot of great suggestions. Since
    >you are going to school, see if your school has a career office. They may
    >be able to help you get your foot in the door.
    >
    >"Paul" <Paulykins@btinternet.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>I am currently trying to change careers into IT by taking an open university
    >>IT and Computing degree as well as studying for a C++ programmers course,
    >>and am trying to pre guess what the best programming language is to learn
    >>for 2 yrs on...C++ or Java ???, and would anyone have some good hints on
    >>how to overcome the "lack of experience" bit that comes with new careers
    >>in IT ??

    >



  5. #5
    Matthew Cromer Guest

    Re: C++ or Java ??


    Translation: Jayson says avoid Java because he hates it and it sucks and trust
    him its going away and he has good reasons to hate it but won't tell you.


  6. #6
    John Cantley Guest

    Re: C++ or Java ??

    Matthew,

    Don't you tire of the 'My language is better than yours' crap?

    John



  7. #7
    Matthew Cromer Guest

    Re: C++ or Java ??


    "John Cantley" <jcstrider@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >Matthew,
    >
    > Don't you tire of the 'My language is better than yours' crap?
    >
    >John
    >
    >


    So Jayson can just post unsubstantiated smears like the above and I should
    let it pass?!


  8. #8
    Chris Hofstaedter Guest

    Re: C++ or Java ??


    "Matthew Cromer" <matthew@sdaconsulting.com> wrote:
    >
    >"John Cantley" <jcstrider@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >>Matthew,
    >>
    >> Don't you tire of the 'My language is better than yours' crap?
    >>
    >>John
    >>
    >>

    >
    >So Jayson can just post unsubstantiated smears like the above and I should
    >let it pass?!
    >


    yes. of course you should.

    religious language wars are for the immature. whether by accident or on
    purpose, jayson's unsubstantiated statement of hate for java was an obvious
    troll. it should be ignored.



  9. #9
    David K. Guest

    Re: C++ or Java ??


    Jayson:

    "Jayson" <jayson.go@home.com> wrote:
    >
    >Paul,
    >I have learned a long time ago, that programming is very related to your
    >personality. In this context, how curious are you about programming? If
    >you're very curious, and have dreams about being an electron moving from
    >transitor to another, turning bytes on and off, then I suggest C++. If

    you're
    >purely a UI person, where all you think about is what users see, and don't
    >have a care in the world how things are implemented behind the scenes, then
    >go for Java.


    Actually, if you REALLY want to program close to the metal, why not just
    program in straight assembler? Of couse, don't expect to actually get anything
    done in a reasonable amount of time!

    I don't totally agree with your comment about choosing a language based on
    your personality. I agree that there are some languages I enjoy more than
    others, but that's not a good enough reason to learn it. You should learn
    a language that is appropriate and relevant to whatever your career goals
    happen to be. Languages are tools. Period.

    >I really curl up in discontent on how you managed to compare
    >C++ and Java. That's probably only because, I'm a VB/C++ lover and hate
    >Java with a passion.


    It's funny that use the phrase "VB/C++" like they are brothers or something,
    and yet you don't like the comparison between C++ and Java! I think that
    speaks for itself.

    >There's issues behind that "hate" too, that we won't
    >get into.


    I'm not a big Java rah-rah person, but I wouldn't say I "hate" the language.
    To be honest, I reserve words like "hate" for things that really deserve
    them, not programming languages.

    By the way, since you brought it up, why DO you "hate" Java?

    If you want to learn a real programming language and recieve the
    >self-content feeling in learning a challenging language, go for C++.


    Again, "challenging" should have nothing to do with it. You should base
    your decision on what language is relevant to your career. I'm not saying
    that you shouldn't learn C++. In fact, I'm a big fan of C++. However, I
    think you need to have more practical reasons than, "it's challenging".

    >Don't waste your time with Java, its going to go away, anyway. Believe
    >me, Java won't provide you with Pazlov's self-actualized feeling.
    >


    While I can't predict the future, it's unlikely that it's going to go away
    in the near term. There is enough people and companies behind Java to keep
    it going for quite some time. It's the platform of choice for the "anything-but-Microsoft"
    crowd, and that alone is enough to keep it relevant.

    >That's my humble opinion.
    >Jayson


    Likewise
    David


  10. #10
    Matthew Cromer Guest

    Re: C++ or Java ??


    "Chris Hofstaedter" <chofstaedter@padcomusa.com> wrote:
    >
    >"Matthew Cromer" <matthew@sdaconsulting.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>"John Cantley" <jcstrider@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >>>Matthew,
    >>>
    >>> Don't you tire of the 'My language is better than yours' crap?
    >>>
    >>>John
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>So Jayson can just post unsubstantiated smears like the above and I should
    >>let it pass?!
    >>

    >
    >yes. of course you should.
    >
    >religious language wars are for the immature. whether by accident or on
    >purpose, jayson's unsubstantiated statement of hate for java was an obvious
    >troll. it should be ignored.


    It was a troll, but it was couched as _advice_ for a new developer. And
    that is the purpose of this forum. So when someone offers what I consider
    an unsubstantiated smear of Java and no argument, I think it is worth pointing
    out the fact so my silence is not taken as assent.

  11. #11
    chris Guest

    Re: C++ or Java ??


    "Matthew Cromer" <matthew@sdaconsulting.com> wrote:
    >
    >"Chris Hofstaedter" <chofstaedter@padcomusa.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>"Matthew Cromer" <matthew@sdaconsulting.com> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>"John Cantley" <jcstrider@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >>>>Matthew,
    >>>>
    >>>> Don't you tire of the 'My language is better than yours' crap?
    >>>>
    >>>>John
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>So Jayson can just post unsubstantiated smears like the above and I should
    >>>let it pass?!
    >>>

    >>
    >>yes. of course you should.
    >>
    >>religious language wars are for the immature. whether by accident or on
    >>purpose, jayson's unsubstantiated statement of hate for java was an obvious
    >>troll. it should be ignored.

    >
    >It was a troll, but it was couched as _advice_ for a new developer. And
    >that is the purpose of this forum. So when someone offers what I consider
    >an unsubstantiated smear of Java and no argument, I think it is worth pointing
    >out the fact so my silence is not taken as assent.


    this is very similar to a conversation that i recently had with my nephew
    about road rage....he claimed that if he didnt respond to the other driver's
    rudeness on the road, then that was implied approval of the other driver's
    bad behavior.

    i wasnt able to convince him. i guess i dont care enough to try to convince
    you either.


  12. #12
    samuel Guest

    Re: C++ or Java ??


    "Matthew Cromer" <matthew@sdaconsulting.com> wrote:
    >
    >"John Cantley" <jcstrider@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >>Matthew,
    >>
    >> Don't you tire of the 'My language is better than yours' crap?
    >>
    >>John
    >>
    >>

    >
    >So Jayson can just post unsubstantiated smears like the above and I should
    >let it pass?!
    >



  13. #13
    David K.. Guest

    Re: C++ or Java ??


    Why is everyone giving Mr. Cromer so much grief???? I don't particularly
    like "religious wars", and I realize that Jayson's post was a troll; however,
    I can't blame somebody for standing up and challenging Jayson's "advice".

    If you are so concerned about the signal-to-noise ratio, you should contribute
    to the "signal" instead of complaining about the "noise", thereby adding
    to it in a most ironic fashion!

  14. #14
    Jayson Guest

    Re: C++ or Java ??


    "John Cantley" <jcstrider@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >Matthew,
    >
    > Don't you tire of the 'My language is better than yours' crap?
    >
    >John
    >
    >

    Don't be a hypocrite. The fact that your face is red frustration with my
    opinions, only show that you have bias in some other language. I have languages
    of choice and I'm not afraid to voice my affinity for them. Before you go
    on with your "crap" remark, think about what that makes you look like.

    Jayson

  15. #15
    Kip Guest

    Re: C++ or Java ??


    About a year ago, an editor from a very popular national computer paper wrote
    an article on the similarities and differences concerning Java and C++. The
    article was unfairly and obviously biased, as most language comparisons are.
    I wrote a letter to the editor (which was published in the next issue) and
    expressed my resentment at printing such a column, that served no real technical
    purpose to the programming community, other than perhaps some emergency toilet
    paper. The editor tried to defend his article, but to no success.

    After coming across this kind of ‘thing’ (language bashing) a few more times.
    I realized that the kind of people who do this, are probably people that
    are either:

    -internally frustrated at their lack of programming talent.
    -afraid of learning a new language.
    -or simply live inside a protective bubble that is their “favorite” language:
    thus making themselves inefficient in making technical decisions.

    The above is not a “be all or end all” view, just me 2 cents. I’ve said it
    many times (like others here) and I will say it again and again:

    PROGRAMMING LANUAGES ARE TOOLS.

    Like a hammer and chisel are tools to a carpenter. Can you imagine a carpenter
    vigorously arguing that the hammer is better than the saw???? That would
    make no sense. Your comments were either a TROLL….or they were simply an
    uneducated, biased opinion about our current technologies. Many books and
    publications consider avid language comparisons as unprofessional and childish.

    You need to spend more time with good books and get some diverse programming
    knowledge….then again, maybe your just in the wrong career. Have your tried
    law school? I hear lawyers need more irrational minds… ; )

    *Kip*



    "Jayson" <jayson.go@home.com> wrote:
    >
    >"John Cantley" <jcstrider@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >>Matthew,
    >>
    >> Don't you tire of the 'My language is better than yours' crap?
    >>
    >>John
    >>
    >>

    >Don't be a hypocrite. The fact that your face is red frustration with my
    >opinions, only show that you have bias in some other language. I have languages
    >of choice and I'm not afraid to voice my affinity for them. Before you

    go
    >on with your "crap" remark, think about what that makes you look like.
    >
    >Jayson



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