We feel betrayed, Dave. [Re: Getting Answers from Microsoft on VB.NET]


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Thread: We feel betrayed, Dave. [Re: Getting Answers from Microsoft on VB.NET]

  1. #1
    Dave Mendlen (Microsoft) Guest

    We feel betrayed, Dave. [Re: Getting Answers from Microsoft on VB.NET]


    "benjaminkv" <benjaminkv@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >Dave Mendlen (Microsoft) <davemen@microsoft.com> wrote in message
    >news:39ef9292$1@news.devx.com...
    >|
    >| I apologize for keeping Ari off the groups today - he's been in meetings
    >with
    >| me and others from the VB management team summarizing some of the
    >misunderstandings
    >| and genuine concerns voiced in the forums.
    >|
    >| Again, my apologies.
    >| Dave Mendlen
    >| Lead Product Manager, Visual Studio.NET
    >
    >Dave,
    >
    >There is other much more important things that I wish to draw your attention
    >to:
    >
    >There was another place where Ari posted the same message as well. I simply
    >cannot understand how you MSFT folks can forget your own NG and have all
    >important messages and news posted firstly at devx or at devx only. I
    >regularly see Mr. Robert Scoble posting the fact that devx has direct access
    >to MSFT and all important news get revealed first through devx and then

    only
    >elsewhere. Is the MSFT website and newsgroups such a big shame or burden

    to
    >all of you at MSFT?
    >
    >Well it could be a matter of internal discipline, or you could have legal
    >agreements to this effect. But we feel betrayed and ashamed.
    >
    >I reiterate the fact that I continue to love devx and support them for their
    >splendid dotnet coverage.
    >
    >Benjamin.
    >
    >

    Actually, Ari posted his message to the Microsoft newsgroup first and then
    later to DevX.

    Dave Mendlen
    Lead Product Manager, Visual Studio.NET

  2. #2
    Karl E. Peterson Guest

    Re: We feel betrayed, Dave. [Re: Getting Answers from Microsoft on VB.NET]

    "Dave Mendlen (Microsoft)" <davemen@microsoft.com> wrote...
    >
    > >cannot understand how you MSFT folks can forget your own NG and have all
    > >important messages and news posted firstly at devx or at devx only.

    >
    > Actually, Ari posted his message to the Microsoft newsgroup first and then
    > later to DevX.


    Facts suck, sometimes, don't they? :-)
    --
    http://www.mvps.org/vb



  3. #3
    Michael \(michka\) Kaplan Guest

    Re: We feel betrayed, Dave. [Re: Getting Answers from Microsoft on VB.NET]

    Well, he did fail to allow for the dual server system on the Microsoft
    newsgroups that causes a delay before any post shows up.

    So even posting on the MS newsgroups first does not mean it shows up there
    first. And certainly it is reasonable for some people to kind of wonder when
    they have supposedly designated Robert as an official Microsoft (r) Leak
    Source (tm). :-)

    --
    MichKa

    random junk of dubious value at the
    multilingual http://www.trigeminal.com/ and
    a new book on internationalization in VB at
    http://www.i18nWithVB.com/

    "Karl E. Peterson" <karl@mvps.org> wrote in message
    news:39f0991d$1@news.devx.com...
    > "Dave Mendlen (Microsoft)" <davemen@microsoft.com> wrote...
    > >
    > > >cannot understand how you MSFT folks can forget your own NG and have

    all
    > > >important messages and news posted firstly at devx or at devx only.

    > >
    > > Actually, Ari posted his message to the Microsoft newsgroup first and

    then
    > > later to DevX.

    >
    > Facts suck, sometimes, don't they? :-)
    > --
    > http://www.mvps.org/vb
    >
    >




  4. #4
    Robert Scoble Guest

    Re: We feel betrayed, Dave. [Re: Getting Answers from Microsoft on VB.NET]

    > So even posting on the MS newsgroups first does not mean it shows up there
    > first. And certainly it is reasonable for some people to kind of wonder

    when
    > they have supposedly designated Robert as an official Microsoft (r) Leak
    > Source (tm). :-)


    Huh?

    If that was only the truth.

    :-)

    Robert Scoble

    ###



  5. #5
    Michael \(michka\) Kaplan Guest

    Re: We feel betrayed, Dave. [Re: Getting Answers from Microsoft on VB.NET]

    Well, you like to talk about conversations with people from MS in public....
    most people who have such conversations do not share the information
    revealed to them. But you do.... and they have seen it. The fact that they
    continue to share information with you means you have been designated as a
    person they can leak stuff through.

    ****, its not even a technique that is unique to Microsoft, and its hardly
    evil or anything. Remember a few months back when I said you were a "pawn"?
    I was mistaken, they were testing you, guy. :-)

    Seems like you passed. <g>

    --
    MichKa

    random junk of dubious value at the
    multilingual http://www.trigeminal.com/ and
    a new book on internationalization in VB at
    http://www.i18nWithVB.com/

    "Robert Scoble" <rscoble@fawcette.com> wrote in message
    news:39f0d0d7$1@news.devx.com...
    > > So even posting on the MS newsgroups first does not mean it shows up

    there
    > > first. And certainly it is reasonable for some people to kind of wonder

    > when
    > > they have supposedly designated Robert as an official Microsoft (r) Leak
    > > Source (tm). :-)

    >
    > Huh?
    >
    > If that was only the truth.
    >
    > :-)
    >
    > Robert Scoble
    >
    > ###
    >
    >




  6. #6
    Zane Thomas Guest

    Re: We feel betrayed, Dave. [Re: Getting Answers from Microsoft on VB.NET]

    On Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:24:54 -0700, "Michael \(michka\) Kaplan"
    <former_mvp@spamfree.trigeminal.nospam.com> wrote:

    >The fact that they continue to share information with you means
    >you have been designated as a person they can leak stuff through.


    Oh fer ****'s sake! Get a grip Michka. Do you think that MS emails all
    its employees saying "Use Robert Scoble to leak info."? Geesh - people at
    MS are just like other people, they talk some. Big deal - there is no
    conspiracy.

    ---
    Zane Thomas (zane@mabry.com)
    President - Mabry Software Inc.

  7. #7
    Robert Scoble Guest

    Re: We feel betrayed, Dave. [Re: Getting Answers from Microsoft on VB.NET]

    > Well, you like to talk about conversations with people from MS in
    public....
    > most people who have such conversations do not share the information
    > revealed to them. But you do.... and they have seen it. The fact that they
    > continue to share information with you means you have been designated as a
    > person they can leak stuff through.


    Heheh. Right. One guy from the Microsoft team I had dinner with had
    absolutely no clue who I was (it was an accident that I had dinner with
    him).

    Believe me, most of what I learn isn't supposed to be for public
    consumption.

    I'm sure that it drives certain people at Microsoft nuts. I was nearly fired
    for "leaking" so I know that it isn't acceptable for people to talk with me.
    After all, if I was really being used as a stooge, wouldn't my management
    appreciate the help I was giving Microsoft?

    Robert Scoble

    ###



  8. #8
    benjaminkv Guest

    Re: We feel betrayed, Dave. [Re: Getting Answers from Microsoft on VB.NET]

    Here are the main reasons that prompted me to post my first message:

    When I read from the devx NG Dave's apology for Ary's absence, I could not
    find the same at microsoft.public.dotnet.vb.general. If the server delay was
    the problem, I apologize.

    I congragulate Robert for giving us some of the earliest news, for example
    that beta1 will be out in October/November. I do not know if it is because I
    looked up MSFT site afterwards that I found MSFT to be late. If this delay
    is true, I feel MSFT should put up better perfomance.

    I reiterate that I do not find anything wrong, but rather want Robert and
    devx to continue giving us the kind of prompt support they are giving us
    irrespective of whether the information is from a dinner table, or a
    conference. I never accused Robert nor devx, but MSFT.

    To sum up, If my observations are factual, MSFT should put up better
    perfomance; else I apologize deeply.

    Benjamin.




  9. #9
    benjaminkv Guest

    Re: We feel betrayed, Dave. [Re: Getting Answers from Microsoft on VB.NET]

    Adding to my previous post appended at the bottom:

    Robert,

    "I was almost fired for leaking VB4 information a month before its release,
    for instance"

    I quoted you above to prove the point I raised: MSFT should come out with
    information before we get it elsewhere( this might touch you, but forgive
    me). I know this would not be possible for MSFT in cases where confidential
    information is leaked. But in cases where information can be divulged, do it
    first through their own sites and NG's before doing it elsewhere.

    Benjamin.

    benjaminkv <benjaminkv@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:39f3cd19@news.devx.com...
    | Here are the main reasons that prompted me to post my first message:
    |
    | When I read from the devx NG Dave's apology for Ary's absence, I could
    not
    | find the same at microsoft.public.dotnet.vb.general. If the server delay
    was
    | the problem, I apologize.
    |
    | I congragulate Robert for giving us some of the earliest news, for example
    | that beta1 will be out in October/November. I do not know if it is because
    I
    | looked up MSFT site afterwards that I found MSFT to be late. If this delay
    | is true, I feel MSFT should put up better perfomance.
    |
    | I reiterate that I do not find anything wrong, but rather want Robert and
    | devx to continue giving us the kind of prompt support they are giving us
    | irrespective of whether the information is from a dinner table, or a
    | conference. I never accused Robert nor devx, but MSFT.
    |
    | To sum up, If my observations are factual, MSFT should put up better
    | perfomance; else I apologize deeply.
    |
    | Benjamin.




  10. #10
    Patrick Steele Guest

    Re: We feel betrayed, Dave. [Re: Getting Answers from Microsoft on VB.NET]

    Michael (michka) Kaplan <former_mvp@spamfree.trigeminal.nospam.com> wrote in
    message news:39f0ee25@news.devx.com...
    > Well, you like to talk about conversations with people from MS in

    public....
    > most people who have such conversations do not share the information
    > revealed to them. But you do.... and they have seen it. The fact that they
    > continue to share information with you means you have been designated as a
    > person they can leak stuff through.


    How in the h*ll do you get to that conclusion? The only way to know if he's
    really a person to "leak" stuff, we would have to know *everything* Robert
    knows. If *everything* Microsoft told him ended up in the newsgroup, he
    might be considered a "leaker". However, there's a good chance Robert knows
    more than he's telling. In short, there's no real way to tell if he leaks
    info.

    > ****, its not even a technique that is unique to Microsoft, and its hardly
    > evil or anything. Remember a few months back when I said you were a

    "pawn"?
    > I was mistaken, they were testing you, guy. :-)


    Man, you watch too much X-Files...

    --
    Patrick Steele
    (patrick_at_neovisionsystems_dot_com)
    http://www.neovisionsystems.com
    Microsoft MCP





  11. #11
    Robert Scoble Guest

    Re: We feel betrayed, Dave. [Re: Getting Answers from Microsoft on VB.NET]

    > I congragulate Robert for giving us some of the earliest news, for example
    > that beta1 will be out in October/November. I do not know if it is because

    I
    > looked up MSFT site afterwards that I found MSFT to be late. If this delay
    > is true, I feel MSFT should put up better perfomance.


    Take all dates you hear with a grain of salt. Even mine. Dates do and
    probably will slip.

    Already I'm hearing that "by the end of the year" might be a more accurate
    answer than the dates I gave you earlier.

    > I reiterate that I do not find anything wrong, but rather want Robert and
    > devx to continue giving us the kind of prompt support they are giving us
    > irrespective of whether the information is from a dinner table, or a
    > conference. I never accused Robert nor devx, but MSFT.


    You'd be suprised at where I find some stuff out. Someday I'll write a book.
    It amazes me sometimes.

    Robert Scoble

    ###



  12. #12
    Robert Scoble Guest

    Re: We feel betrayed, Dave. [Re: Getting Answers from Microsoft on VB.NET]

    > "I was almost fired for leaking VB4 information a month before its
    release,
    > for instance"
    > I quoted you above to prove the point I raised: MSFT should come out with
    > information before we get it elsewhere( this might touch you, but forgive
    > me). I know this would not be possible for MSFT in cases where

    confidential
    > information is leaked. But in cases where information can be divulged, do

    it
    > first through their own sites and NG's before doing it elsewhere.


    Microsoft rarely talks about future plans in public. The past six months
    have been totally amazing from my point of view since it's the first time VB
    has been released to the public before it even hits beta.

    Keep in mind, NONE of the information I share with you comes from official
    Microsoft sources. So, take it with a grain of salt.

    Robert Scoble

    ###



  13. #13
    Robert Scoble Guest

    Re: We feel betrayed, Dave. [Re: Getting Answers from Microsoft on VB.NET]

    > How in the h*ll do you get to that conclusion? The only way to know if
    he's
    > really a person to "leak" stuff, we would have to know *everything* Robert
    > knows. If *everything* Microsoft told him ended up in the newsgroup, he
    > might be considered a "leaker". However, there's a good chance Robert

    knows
    > more than he's telling. In short, there's no real way to tell if he leaks
    > info.


    There's an excellent chance I know more than I'm telling. And, because my
    management is sick and tired of getting calls from Microsoft asking them to
    keep me quiet, there's an excellent chance I won't say what I know either.
    :-)

    Robert Scoble

    ###



  14. #14
    Patrick Steele Guest

    Re: We feel betrayed, Dave. [Re: Getting Answers from Microsoft on VB.NET]

    Robert Scoble <rscoble@fawcette.com> wrote in message
    news:39f4773c@news.devx.com...
    >
    > There's an excellent chance I know more than I'm telling. And, because my
    > management is sick and tired of getting calls from Microsoft asking them

    to
    > keep me quiet, there's an excellent chance I won't say what I know either.
    > :-)


    So... What are you saying?

    --
    Patrick Steele
    (patrick_at_neovisionsystems_dot_com)
    http://www.neovisionsystems.com
    Microsoft MCP




  15. #15
    Zane Thomas Guest

    Re: We feel betrayed, Dave. [Re: Getting Answers from Microsoft on VB.NET]

    On Mon, 23 Oct 2000 10:48:04 -0700, "Robert Scoble" <rscoble@fawcette.com>
    wrote:

    >...there's an excellent chance I won't say what I know either.


    You're such a tease.




    ---
    Homie Z

    You're just mad because the voices don't talk to you.

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