Re: VS.NET is written in C# and open source! CORRECTION


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Thread: Re: VS.NET is written in C# and open source! CORRECTION

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  1. #1
    Sean Guest

    Re: VS.NET is written in C# and open source! CORRECTION


    Sorry folks, I meant C# NOT VS.NET is going open source. No flame mail please.
    Once again, announced at Tech-Ed Atlanta GA last week. Thanks...

    -Sean-

    "Sean" <ilogix@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >Not sure if all you know this, but it was mentioned in Tech-Ed Atlanta GA,
    >last week that Visual Studio.Net is completely written in C#. That is something
    >else!
    >
    >Also, it was announced that Visual Studio.Net is going to be open source.
    >Now I am not sure how, or when, but they were talking about as early as

    Beta
    >2. Of course, they want to "clean up" some code as it were before anyone
    >else gets to it, basically formating, proper comments and things of that
    >nature.
    >
    >Just thought I'd share this...
    >
    >Cheers,
    >
    >-Sean-



  2. #2
    AJ Armstrong Guest

    Re: VS.NET is written in C# and open source! CORRECTION

    C# is a language, not an application. It can't be open source. Do you mean
    the compiler will be open source? I strongly doubt it. Perhaps you are
    referring to the fact that the C# language spec has been submitted to (can't
    remember the org - the ECMA folks) for acceptance as an "Open Standard"?

    I'll bet you a cookie (****, a fresh-from-the-oven tollhouse) that MS will
    not release anything, ever, under GPL, but you might see some chunks of code
    under something like the BSD. I doubt, however, that a compiler would be in
    that category - too much proprietary optimization code.

    -AJA


    "Sean" <ilogix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:3b38d9b9$1@news.devx.com...
    >
    > Sorry folks, I meant C# NOT VS.NET is going open source. No flame mail

    please.
    > Once again, announced at Tech-Ed Atlanta GA last week. Thanks...
    >
    > -Sean-
    >
    > "Sean" <ilogix@hotmail.com> wrote:
    > >
    > >Not sure if all you know this, but it was mentioned in Tech-Ed Atlanta

    GA,
    > >last week that Visual Studio.Net is completely written in C#. That is

    something
    > >else!
    > >
    > >Also, it was announced that Visual Studio.Net is going to be open source.
    > >Now I am not sure how, or when, but they were talking about as early as

    > Beta
    > >2. Of course, they want to "clean up" some code as it were before anyone
    > >else gets to it, basically formating, proper comments and things of that
    > >nature.
    > >
    > >Just thought I'd share this...
    > >
    > >Cheers,
    > >
    > >-Sean-

    >




  3. #3
    Shaun Wilson Guest

    Re: VS.NET is written in C# and open source! CORRECTION



    More dribble from the masses.

    Here, read this... http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/dotn...27/dotnet.html

    and now you know, you're not always right.

    "AJ Armstrong" <nospamfor_ajarmstrong@ttg-inc.com> wrote:
    >C# is a language, not an application. It can't be open source. Do you

    mean
    >the compiler will be open source? I strongly doubt it. Perhaps you are
    >referring to the fact that the C# language spec has been submitted to (can't
    >remember the org - the ECMA folks) for acceptance as an "Open Standard"?
    >
    >I'll bet you a cookie (****, a fresh-from-the-oven tollhouse) that MS will
    >not release anything, ever, under GPL, but you might see some chunks of

    code
    >under something like the BSD. I doubt, however, that a compiler would be

    in
    >that category - too much proprietary optimization code.
    >
    >-AJA
    >
    >
    >"Sean" <ilogix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    >news:3b38d9b9$1@news.devx.com...
    >>
    >> Sorry folks, I meant C# NOT VS.NET is going open source. No flame mail

    >please.
    >> Once again, announced at Tech-Ed Atlanta GA last week. Thanks...
    >>
    >> -Sean-
    >>
    >> "Sean" <ilogix@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >> >
    >> >Not sure if all you know this, but it was mentioned in Tech-Ed Atlanta

    >GA,
    >> >last week that Visual Studio.Net is completely written in C#. That is

    >something
    >> >else!
    >> >
    >> >Also, it was announced that Visual Studio.Net is going to be open source.
    >> >Now I am not sure how, or when, but they were talking about as early

    as
    >> Beta
    >> >2. Of course, they want to "clean up" some code as it were before anyone
    >> >else gets to it, basically formating, proper comments and things of that
    >> >nature.
    >> >
    >> >Just thought I'd share this...
    >> >
    >> >Cheers,
    >> >
    >> >-Sean-

    >>

    >
    >



  4. #4
    AJ Armstrong Guest

    Re: VS.NET is written in C# and open source! CORRECTION

    Actually, I already knew I wasn't always right. However, so far you haven't
    shown me that I'm wrong in this case. Did you read the article you posted?
    Stutz never says that MS will release anything under "open source". He uses
    the phrase "shared source". The link I include below has descriptions of
    what MS means by "shared source", and it quite obviously excludes just about
    everything that we would normally attribute to an open source licencse.
    From the FAQ:

    "Shared Source is a balanced approach that allows us to share source code
    with customers and partners while maintaining the intellectual property
    rights needed to support a strong software business. Shared Source is a
    framework that creates business value and fosters technical innovation. It
    covers a variety of source licensing programs tailored to the diverse needs
    of customers and partners for source code access."

    Doesn't sound like "free speech, not free beer" to me. Sounds like the sort
    of licensing that MS has always offered to universities, research orgs, etc.
    Just because MS has started using the phrase "shared source" and a whole
    bunch of people have misinterpreted that to mean that VS.Net will be
    released as open source doesn't by any means detract from my points.

    That, however, is beside the point. What I have been saying is that Visual
    Studio will not be released under open source and that I didn't think that
    the only currently extant C# compiler (the one for Windows that is included
    in VS.Net and the SDK) would be, either. It looks like part of my statement
    might be wrong, or incomplete, with MS releasing a C# compiler as "shared
    source", but if you look at the fine print - the offer is to allow others to
    "license" their source, and a specific preclusion from using the source for
    commercial purposes.

    If you look at other articles posted in this thread, you'll see that MS is
    reserving much of the proprietary code of the framework (garbage collection,
    for example) from any shared source arrangement. The article you post says
    that Microsoft is going to let (some of) us see some of the code on two
    compilers (compilers that don't currently exist) and "a subset" of the CLI,
    and specifically restrict commercial users from using the code directly.
    What it does not say is whether MS will have ownership (partial or full) of
    any derivative works based on the source. It specifically precludes the
    sort of community-maintenance scheme that is the core of open-source
    development. What it says is that we can (under very specific circumstances
    and subject to carerfully written license strictures) see some of the source
    code for a compiler. That is not an open source release of a C# compiler,
    not by a long shot. I applaud it, but I am not going to pretend it is more
    than it is - certainly not to the point of proclaiming that VS.Net was going
    to be released as open source - the statement that started this thread.

    I still stand by my statement that Microsoft will never release anything
    under GPL (the open source license used throughout the Linux community) and
    I stand by that (note that Stutz doesn't even say they will release under
    FreeBSD licensing - they have their own (currently secret) license). Here's
    why:

    http://www.microsoft.com/business/li...aredsource.asp

    Looks like you're not always right, either.


    -AJA


    "Shaun Wilson" <elywilson@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:3b3ae5f5@news.devx.com...
    >
    >
    > More dribble from the masses.
    >
    > Here, read this...

    http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/dotn...27/dotnet.html
    >
    > and now you know, you're not always right.
    >
    > "AJ Armstrong" <nospamfor_ajarmstrong@ttg-inc.com> wrote:
    > >C# is a language, not an application. It can't be open source. Do you

    > mean
    > >the compiler will be open source? I strongly doubt it. Perhaps you are
    > >referring to the fact that the C# language spec has been submitted to

    (can't
    > >remember the org - the ECMA folks) for acceptance as an "Open Standard"?
    > >
    > >I'll bet you a cookie (****, a fresh-from-the-oven tollhouse) that MS

    will
    > >not release anything, ever, under GPL, but you might see some chunks of

    > code
    > >under something like the BSD. I doubt, however, that a compiler would be

    > in
    > >that category - too much proprietary optimization code.
    > >
    > >-AJA
    > >
    > >
    > >"Sean" <ilogix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > >news:3b38d9b9$1@news.devx.com...
    > >>
    > >> Sorry folks, I meant C# NOT VS.NET is going open source. No flame mail

    > >please.
    > >> Once again, announced at Tech-Ed Atlanta GA last week. Thanks...
    > >>
    > >> -Sean-
    > >>
    > >> "Sean" <ilogix@hotmail.com> wrote:
    > >> >
    > >> >Not sure if all you know this, but it was mentioned in Tech-Ed Atlanta

    > >GA,
    > >> >last week that Visual Studio.Net is completely written in C#. That is

    > >something
    > >> >else!
    > >> >
    > >> >Also, it was announced that Visual Studio.Net is going to be open

    source.
    > >> >Now I am not sure how, or when, but they were talking about as early

    > as
    > >> Beta
    > >> >2. Of course, they want to "clean up" some code as it were before

    anyone
    > >> >else gets to it, basically formating, proper comments and things of

    that
    > >> >nature.
    > >> >
    > >> >Just thought I'd share this...
    > >> >
    > >> >Cheers,
    > >> >
    > >> >-Sean-
    > >>

    > >
    > >

    >




  5. #5
    Frank Gleeson Guest

    Re: VS.NET is written in C# and open source! CORRECTION

    Shared Source: is MSs new licensing concept. You pay
    big money and they let you look at the source code and
    tell them what is wrong with it. I guess it's better than the
    current state of affairs. Everyone knows about a bug
    codes around it and waits for the next service pack in the
    hopes that it was fixed.

    Shared source bears little resemblance to any open source
    licensing. It is basically irrelevant to individual developers.
    It is only big companies with big IT budgets who would even
    consider doing this.

    Shaun Wilson wrote:

    > More dribble from the masses.
    >
    > Here, read this... http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/dotn...27/dotnet.html
    >
    > and now you know, you're not always right.
    >
    > "AJ Armstrong" <nospamfor_ajarmstrong@ttg-inc.com> wrote:
    > >C# is a language, not an application. It can't be open source. Do you

    > mean
    > >the compiler will be open source? I strongly doubt it. Perhaps you are
    > >referring to the fact that the C# language spec has been submitted to (can't
    > >remember the org - the ECMA folks) for acceptance as an "Open Standard"?
    > >
    > >I'll bet you a cookie (****, a fresh-from-the-oven tollhouse) that MS will
    > >not release anything, ever, under GPL, but you might see some chunks of

    > code
    > >under something like the BSD. I doubt, however, that a compiler would be

    > in
    > >that category - too much proprietary optimization code.
    > >
    > >-AJA
    > >
    > >
    > >"Sean" <ilogix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > >news:3b38d9b9$1@news.devx.com...
    > >>
    > >> Sorry folks, I meant C# NOT VS.NET is going open source. No flame mail

    > >please.
    > >> Once again, announced at Tech-Ed Atlanta GA last week. Thanks...
    > >>
    > >> -Sean-
    > >>
    > >> "Sean" <ilogix@hotmail.com> wrote:
    > >> >
    > >> >Not sure if all you know this, but it was mentioned in Tech-Ed Atlanta

    > >GA,
    > >> >last week that Visual Studio.Net is completely written in C#. That is

    > >something
    > >> >else!
    > >> >
    > >> >Also, it was announced that Visual Studio.Net is going to be open source.
    > >> >Now I am not sure how, or when, but they were talking about as early

    > as
    > >> Beta
    > >> >2. Of course, they want to "clean up" some code as it were before anyone
    > >> >else gets to it, basically formating, proper comments and things of that
    > >> >nature.
    > >> >
    > >> >Just thought I'd share this...
    > >> >
    > >> >Cheers,
    > >> >
    > >> >-Sean-
    > >>

    > >
    > >



  6. #6
    Sam Stokes Guest

    Re: VS.NET is written in C# and open source! CORRECTION


    Ok, so open source allows "free" stuff for everyone and shared source means
    that you have to pay for the tools, etc. So how does anyone make money?
    Please explain to me the model to make money from "open" source. I am afraid
    that you will not in the long term continue to make money using open source
    and it's threat of intellectual property infrigement.


    Frank Gleeson <fgleeson@rcn.com> wrote:
    >Shared Source: is MSs new licensing concept. You pay
    >big money and they let you look at the source code and
    >tell them what is wrong with it. I guess it's better than the
    >current state of affairs. Everyone knows about a bug
    >codes around it and waits for the next service pack in the
    >hopes that it was fixed.
    >
    >Shared source bears little resemblance to any open source
    >licensing. It is basically irrelevant to individual developers.
    >It is only big companies with big IT budgets who would even
    >consider doing this.
    >
    >Shaun Wilson wrote:
    >
    >> More dribble from the masses.
    >>
    >> Here, read this... http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/dotn...27/dotnet.html
    >>
    >> and now you know, you're not always right.
    >>
    >> "AJ Armstrong" <nospamfor_ajarmstrong@ttg-inc.com> wrote:
    >> >C# is a language, not an application. It can't be open source. Do you

    >> mean
    >> >the compiler will be open source? I strongly doubt it. Perhaps you are
    >> >referring to the fact that the C# language spec has been submitted to

    (can't
    >> >remember the org - the ECMA folks) for acceptance as an "Open Standard"?
    >> >
    >> >I'll bet you a cookie (****, a fresh-from-the-oven tollhouse) that MS

    will
    >> >not release anything, ever, under GPL, but you might see some chunks

    of
    >> code
    >> >under something like the BSD. I doubt, however, that a compiler would

    be
    >> in
    >> >that category - too much proprietary optimization code.
    >> >
    >> >-AJA
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >"Sean" <ilogix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    >> >news:3b38d9b9$1@news.devx.com...
    >> >>
    >> >> Sorry folks, I meant C# NOT VS.NET is going open source. No flame mail
    >> >please.
    >> >> Once again, announced at Tech-Ed Atlanta GA last week. Thanks...
    >> >>
    >> >> -Sean-
    >> >>
    >> >> "Sean" <ilogix@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >> >> >
    >> >> >Not sure if all you know this, but it was mentioned in Tech-Ed Atlanta
    >> >GA,
    >> >> >last week that Visual Studio.Net is completely written in C#. That

    is
    >> >something
    >> >> >else!
    >> >> >
    >> >> >Also, it was announced that Visual Studio.Net is going to be open

    source.
    >> >> >Now I am not sure how, or when, but they were talking about as early

    >> as
    >> >> Beta
    >> >> >2. Of course, they want to "clean up" some code as it were before

    anyone
    >> >> >else gets to it, basically formating, proper comments and things of

    that
    >> >> >nature.
    >> >> >
    >> >> >Just thought I'd share this...
    >> >> >
    >> >> >Cheers,
    >> >> >
    >> >> >-Sean-
    >> >>
    >> >
    >> >

    >



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