Dim X, Y as Integer


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Thread: Dim X, Y as Integer

  1. #1
    Rich Guest

    Dim X, Y as Integer


    "Ronald Laeremans [MSFT]" <ronlaere@microsoft.com> wrote:
    >Dim X, Y as Integer
    >
    >was an interview question I liked to ask of VB candidates. Want to guess

    at
    >the percentage of applicants that described the semantics right? <g>
    >
    >-Ronald-


    Less than one half?

    Rich

  2. #2
    Ronald Laeremans [MSFT] Guest

    Re: Dim X, Y as Integer

    Around 30-40%.

    -Ronald-

    "Rich" <nomail@nomail.com> wrote in message news:3b72a3fa$1@news.devx.com...
    >
    > "Ronald Laeremans [MSFT]" <ronlaere@microsoft.com> wrote:
    > >Dim X, Y as Integer
    > >
    > >was an interview question I liked to ask of VB candidates. Want to guess

    > at
    > >the percentage of applicants that described the semantics right? <g>
    > >
    > >-Ronald-

    >
    > Less than one half?
    >
    > Rich




  3. #3
    Mark Hurd Guest

    Re: Dim X, Y as Integer

    Yeah, and then MS goes of an makes the VB.Net adhere to what novices thought
    it would be >:-(

    One of those bothering things in VB.Net that won't actually affect me, but
    still gets me supporting KEP!

    (Won't affect me because I'll continue to Dim one variable per line.)

    Regards,
    Mark Hurd, B.Sc.(Ma.) (Hons.)

    "Rich" <nomail@nomail.com> wrote in message news:3b72a3fa$1@news.devx.com...
    >
    > "Ronald Laeremans [MSFT]" <ronlaere@microsoft.com> wrote:
    > >Dim X, Y as Integer
    > >
    > >was an interview question I liked to ask of VB candidates. Want to guess

    > at
    > >the percentage of applicants that described the semantics right? <g>
    > >
    > >-Ronald-

    >
    > Less than one half?
    >
    > Rich




  4. #4
    Karl E. Peterson Guest

    Re: Dim X, Y as Integer

    One more change that favors ambiguity! Bad news, huh? Used to be a guy could read a
    snippet, and *know* what it did.
    --
    http://www.mvps.org/vb


    "Mark Hurd" <markhurd@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message news:3b72b79a@news.devx.com...
    > Yeah, and then MS goes of an makes the VB.Net adhere to what novices thought
    > it would be >:-(
    >
    > One of those bothering things in VB.Net that won't actually affect me, but
    > still gets me supporting KEP!
    >
    > (Won't affect me because I'll continue to Dim one variable per line.)
    >
    > Regards,
    > Mark Hurd, B.Sc.(Ma.) (Hons.)
    >
    > "Rich" <nomail@nomail.com> wrote in message news:3b72a3fa$1@news.devx.com...
    > >
    > > "Ronald Laeremans [MSFT]" <ronlaere@microsoft.com> wrote:
    > > >Dim X, Y as Integer
    > > >
    > > >was an interview question I liked to ask of VB candidates. Want to guess

    > > at
    > > >the percentage of applicants that described the semantics right? <g>
    > > >
    > > >-Ronald-

    > >
    > > Less than one half?
    > >
    > > Rich

    >
    >



  5. #5
    Ronald Laeremans [MSFT] Guest

    Re: Dim X, Y as Integer

    No Karl, the majority of users read that piece of code and were mistaken
    about what it does. Even just in the VB 6.0 context. I know your argument
    would be that even if VB 6 used '-' to specify addition and '+' to specify
    subtraction, that is what all future versions need to use just because it
    doesn't change the language. I think we simply differ in opinion as to
    whether it is a good idea to change a piece of syntax that has proven to be
    misinterpreted by a large portion of users.

    -Ronald-

    "Karl E. Peterson" <karl@mvps.org> wrote in message
    news:3b731116@news.devx.com...
    > One more change that favors ambiguity! Bad news, huh? Used to be a guy

    could read a
    > snippet, and *know* what it did.
    > --
    > http://www.mvps.org/vb
    >
    >
    > "Mark Hurd" <markhurd@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message

    news:3b72b79a@news.devx.com...
    > > Yeah, and then MS goes of an makes the VB.Net adhere to what novices

    thought
    > > it would be >:-(
    > >
    > > One of those bothering things in VB.Net that won't actually affect me,

    but
    > > still gets me supporting KEP!
    > >
    > > (Won't affect me because I'll continue to Dim one variable per line.)
    > >
    > > Regards,
    > > Mark Hurd, B.Sc.(Ma.) (Hons.)
    > >
    > > "Rich" <nomail@nomail.com> wrote in message

    news:3b72a3fa$1@news.devx.com...
    > > >
    > > > "Ronald Laeremans [MSFT]" <ronlaere@microsoft.com> wrote:
    > > > >Dim X, Y as Integer
    > > > >
    > > > >was an interview question I liked to ask of VB candidates. Want to

    guess
    > > > at
    > > > >the percentage of applicants that described the semantics right? <g>
    > > > >
    > > > >-Ronald-
    > > >
    > > > Less than one half?
    > > >
    > > > Rich

    > >
    > >

    >




  6. #6
    Karl E. Peterson Guest

    Re: Dim X, Y as Integer

    Hi Ronald --

    > No Karl, the majority of users read that piece of code and were mistaken
    > about what it does. Even just in the VB 6.0 context.


    That's because the majority of *VB* users are casual users, by nature. That you were
    interviewing these folks only demonstrates how easy it was to ramp-up on the
    language.

    > I know your argument
    > would be that even if VB 6 used '-' to specify addition and '+' to specify
    > subtraction, that is what all future versions need to use just because it
    > doesn't change the language.


    So, you're gonna change plus and minus, next, huh? (See, I can wrap this stuff just
    as easily as you can! <g>)

    > I think we simply differ in opinion as to
    > whether it is a good idea to change a piece of syntax that has proven to be
    > misinterpreted by a large portion of users.


    Yeah, hard to argue that having a given syntax for only 25 years would make it any
    more or less right. The chosen syntax is more ambiguous than the rejected one.
    That, you cannot argue. Formerly, declaration was *explicit*. That confusion
    existed at all was simply due to Microsoft's catering to the weanies who'd rather
    type less, than say what they mean outright. (IOW, default behaviors.) If you want
    unambiguous declaration, then just *do* it. Don't make it more so by extending
    implicit typing and say it's more readable.

    Later... Karl
    --
    http://www.mvps.org/vb


    "Ronald Laeremans [MSFT]" <ronlaere@microsoft.com> wrote in message
    news:3b7319c4$1@news.devx.com...
    > No Karl, the majority of users read that piece of code and were mistaken
    > about what it does. Even just in the VB 6.0 context. I know your argument
    > would be that even if VB 6 used '-' to specify addition and '+' to specify
    > subtraction, that is what all future versions need to use just because it
    > doesn't change the language. I think we simply differ in opinion as to
    > whether it is a good idea to change a piece of syntax that has proven to be
    > misinterpreted by a large portion of users.
    >
    > -Ronald-
    >
    > "Karl E. Peterson" <karl@mvps.org> wrote in message
    > news:3b731116@news.devx.com...
    > > One more change that favors ambiguity! Bad news, huh? Used to be a guy

    > could read a
    > > snippet, and *know* what it did.
    > > --
    > > http://www.mvps.org/vb
    > >
    > >
    > > "Mark Hurd" <markhurd@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message

    > news:3b72b79a@news.devx.com...
    > > > Yeah, and then MS goes of an makes the VB.Net adhere to what novices

    > thought
    > > > it would be >:-(
    > > >
    > > > One of those bothering things in VB.Net that won't actually affect me,

    > but
    > > > still gets me supporting KEP!
    > > >
    > > > (Won't affect me because I'll continue to Dim one variable per line.)
    > > >
    > > > Regards,
    > > > Mark Hurd, B.Sc.(Ma.) (Hons.)
    > > >
    > > > "Rich" <nomail@nomail.com> wrote in message

    > news:3b72a3fa$1@news.devx.com...
    > > > >
    > > > > "Ronald Laeremans [MSFT]" <ronlaere@microsoft.com> wrote:
    > > > > >Dim X, Y as Integer
    > > > > >
    > > > > >was an interview question I liked to ask of VB candidates. Want to

    > guess
    > > > > at
    > > > > >the percentage of applicants that described the semantics right? <g>
    > > > > >
    > > > > >-Ronald-
    > > > >
    > > > > Less than one half?
    > > > >
    > > > > Rich
    > > >
    > > >

    > >

    >
    >



  7. #7
    Ronald Laeremans [MSFT] Guest

    Re: Dim X, Y as Integer

    I wasn't interviewing casual VB users. I was interviewing people that said
    on their resume that they had been professional, full time VB developers for
    at least 3 years, many of them much longer than that.

    -Ronald-

    "Karl E. Peterson" <karl@mvps.org> wrote in message
    news:3b731c78@news.devx.com...
    > Hi Ronald --
    >
    > > No Karl, the majority of users read that piece of code and were mistaken
    > > about what it does. Even just in the VB 6.0 context.

    >
    > That's because the majority of *VB* users are casual users, by nature.

    That you were
    > interviewing these folks only demonstrates how easy it was to ramp-up on

    the
    > language.





  8. #8
    Dan Barclay Guest

    Re: Dim X, Y as Integer

    On Thu, 9 Aug 2001 16:17:47 -0700, "Ronald Laeremans [MSFT]"
    <ronlaere@microsoft.com> wrote:

    >No Karl, the majority of users read that piece of code and were mistaken
    >about what it does. Even just in the VB 6.0 context.


    No accounting for folks claiming to be what they aren't.

    >I know your argument
    >would be that even if VB 6 used '-' to specify addition and '+' to specify
    >subtraction, that is what all future versions need to use just because it
    >doesn't change the language.


    Alright! Symbol cleanup time! When do we start on C/C++???

    >I think we simply differ in opinion as to
    >whether it is a good idea to change a piece of syntax that has proven to be
    >misinterpreted by a large portion of users.


    Ever think about educating 'em?

    Whatcha gonna fix next? Huummmmmm????

    Dan
    Language Stability is a *feature* I wish VB had!
    (#6)

  9. #9
    David A. Rothgery Guest

    Re: Dim X, Y as Integer

    Dan Barclay <Dan@MVPs.org> wrote:
    > On Thu, 9 Aug 2001 16:17:47 -0700, "Ronald Laeremans [MSFT]"
    > <ronlaere@microsoft.com> wrote:
    > >I know your argument
    > >would be that even if VB 6 used '-' to specify addition and '+' to specify
    > >subtraction, that is what all future versions need to use just because it
    > >doesn't change the language.

    >
    > Alright! Symbol cleanup time! When do we start on C/C++???


    The day after Microsoft controls a majority of the seats on the
    standards committees.

    --
    Dave Rothgery
    Picking nits since 1976
    drothgery@myrealbox.com
    http://drothgery.editthispage.com

  10. #10
    Dan Barclay Guest

    Re: Dim X, Y as Integer

    On Thu, 9 Aug 2001 20:11:47 -0700, David A. Rothgery
    <drothgery@myrealbox.com> wrote:

    >Dan Barclay <Dan@MVPs.org> wrote:
    >> On Thu, 9 Aug 2001 16:17:47 -0700, "Ronald Laeremans [MSFT]"
    >> <ronlaere@microsoft.com> wrote:
    >> >I know your argument
    >> >would be that even if VB 6 used '-' to specify addition and '+' to specify
    >> >subtraction, that is what all future versions need to use just because it
    >> >doesn't change the language.

    >>
    >> Alright! Symbol cleanup time! When do we start on C/C++???

    >
    >The day after Microsoft controls a majority of the seats on the
    >standards committees.


    And the week following that, MS folds their Office/OS/SQL (and .net)
    tent and goes home. Oh yea, and they wouldn't be able to get their
    compiler to work again either.

    Dan

    Language Stability is a *feature* I wish VB had!
    (#6)

  11. #11
    Craig Clearman Guest

    Re: Dim X, Y as Integer

    Hi Ronald,

    >I think we simply differ in opinion as to
    >whether it is a good idea to change a piece of syntax that has proven to be
    >misinterpreted by a large portion of users.


    I would guess that the disagreement has as much with you picking a bad
    example.

    The truth is that the VB team could have squashed this problem flat
    without changing the language. If you use Option Strict, you could not
    declare something like the title, because you could not define
    something as Dim x. You always needed to explicitly declare the type
    of variable. It has the added benefit of being explicit. In fact, it
    would follow with VB's old best practices.

    Why they chose to go beyond that to introduce more ambiguity, I will
    never understand. Well, really, I do understand. They wanted VB to
    look more closely like C and its derivatives.

    Ciao, Craig


  12. #12
    Karl E. Peterson Guest

    Re: Dim X, Y as Integer

    Just goes to show ya, huh? ;-)

    Such was the beauty of VB.
    --
    http://www.mvps.org/vb


    "Ronald Laeremans [MSFT]" <ronlaere@microsoft.com> wrote in message
    news:3b732dbe$1@news.devx.com...
    > I wasn't interviewing casual VB users. I was interviewing people that said
    > on their resume that they had been professional, full time VB developers for
    > at least 3 years, many of them much longer than that.
    >
    > -Ronald-
    >
    > "Karl E. Peterson" <karl@mvps.org> wrote in message
    > news:3b731c78@news.devx.com...
    > > Hi Ronald --
    > >
    > > > No Karl, the majority of users read that piece of code and were mistaken
    > > > about what it does. Even just in the VB 6.0 context.

    > >
    > > That's because the majority of *VB* users are casual users, by nature.

    > That you were
    > > interviewing these folks only demonstrates how easy it was to ramp-up on

    > the
    > > language.

    >
    >
    >



  13. #13
    Ronald Laeremans [MSFT] Guest

    Re: Dim X, Y as Integer

    Such was the amount of interviews that didn't last the full hour. ;-)

    -Ronald-

    "Karl E. Peterson" <karl@mvps.org> wrote in message
    news:3b74181b$1@news.devx.com...
    > Just goes to show ya, huh? ;-)
    >
    > Such was the beauty of VB.
    > --
    > http://www.mvps.org/vb





  14. #14
    Richard Curzon Guest

    Re: Dim X, Y as Integer

    Seeing it's a new Subject line... <g>

    Just curious, how many of the 30-40% also said they were previous C
    programmers? When I see that kind of declaration, I generally conclude I'm
    looking at a C coders work, usually that's right.

    Often, a C guy will assume cuz he's an expert C coder, he's also an expert
    VB coder, cuz ... whatever. If you can run, you can walk, surely? <bg> And
    it works in C, so they just do it in VB.

    Most of the misinformation I hear about VB actually comes from some of those
    C coders, who confidently declaim all kinds of nonsense... "Can't open a
    file", "can't read a command line argument", "can't use Win32 API", "can't
    access databases"

    regards
    Richard.
    --
    -----
    Live without dead time - Raoul Vaneigem
    May I borrow your towel, my car just hit a water buffalo - Chevy Chase



  15. #15
    Karl E. Peterson Guest

    Re: Dim X, Y as Integer

    I knew you were a quick study. :-)
    --
    http://www.mvps.org/vb


    "Ronald Laeremans [MSFT]" <ronlaere@microsoft.com> wrote in message
    news:3b7498c8@news.devx.com...
    > Such was the amount of interviews that didn't last the full hour. ;-)
    >
    > -Ronald-
    >
    > "Karl E. Peterson" <karl@mvps.org> wrote in message
    > news:3b74181b$1@news.devx.com...
    > > Just goes to show ya, huh? ;-)
    > >
    > > Such was the beauty of VB.
    > > --
    > > http://www.mvps.org/vb

    >
    >
    >



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