Geesh people....

[Mark Hoffman]

Every so often I drop by this discussion board to see other's opinions on
.NET and the like.

I'm absolutely floored by the unprofessionalism, childish behavior and downright
insulting messages. Exactly how do comments referring to people having sex
with their sister have anything to do with discussing .NET?

What's even more shocking is that some of the participants are fairly well
known, and supposedly respected, members of the VB community.

I know we're all going to disagree about .NET's impact on our industry, but
can't we refrain from insulting people and cursing?

Lighten up, folks....

Mark

[Zane Thomas]

Mark,

> I'm absolutely floored by the unprofessionalism, childish behavior and
downright
> insulting messages. Exactly how do comments referring to people having sex
> with their sister have anything to do with discussing .NET?

I agree that the level of 'discussion' here is pretty pathetic. However,
wrt to the sister-sex comment you should be aware that Joe is quoting that
out of context, one of his favorite passtimes. That question, posted by me,
was contextually exactly the same as the often seen "when did you stop
beating your wife?" - it was intended to highlight the nature of one of MM's
questions. Joe has apparently taken great pleasure in pulling that out of
context - a clear demonstration of his lack of integrity, imo.

Zane

[Joe \Nuke Me Xemu\ Foster]

"Mark Hoffman" <markhoffman@onebox.com> wrote in message <news:3baa3070$1@news.devx.com>...

> Every so often I drop by this discussion board to see other's opinions on
> NET and the like.
>
> I'm absolutely floored by the unprofessionalism, childish behavior and downright
> insulting messages. Exactly how do comments referring to people having sex
> with their sister have anything to do with discussing .NET?

You'll have to ask Zane about that.

news://news.devx.com/3b2f3393.10209671@news.devx.com

news://news.devx.com/3b5b14d8.72209750@news.devx.com

> What's even more shocking is that some of the participants are fairly well
> known, and supposedly respected, members of the VB community.
>
> I know we're all going to disagree about .NET's impact on our industry, but
> can't we refrain from insulting people and cursing?
>
> Lighten up, folks....

That has been impossible, ever since Zane was love-bombed at the Redmond
Org late last year and became a True Believer, even going so far as to
demand *exactly* how many changes it would take to turn Visual Basic into
another language (species?) distinct from Visual Basic. One might as
well deny that horses and donkeys are distinct species! After all, since
members of different species supposedly do not interbreed, the existence
of "mules" must shatter this silly Belief in the "species" Religion...

http://epswww.unm.edu/facstaff/zshar...sification.htm

http://epswww.unm.edu/facstaff/zsharp/106/eps106.htm

--
Joe Foster <mailto:jlfoster%40znet.com> DC8s in Spaace: <http://www.xenu.net/>
WARNING: I cannot be held responsible for the above They're coming to
because my cats have apparently learned to type. take me away, ha ha!

[John Butler]

Hang around, between the bullshit and mud-slinging, some good stuff does
come out every now and then. There are some good brains that hang around
here, and although it is sometimes tedious, often it is quite funny (or
maybe it is just my odd sense of humour!) and many times, it is
enlightening.

The world is a serious enough place, as it is...if this group drifts off
into EgoLand/LalaLand every now and then, and then and then <grin>..then it
is still useful. I may be wrong, but I don't think any of the people, who
accuse or get accused of various nefarious, incestous doings, really lose
any sleep about the accusations or counter-accusations. Joe though, does
tend to sound rather angry, most of the time (?), Mike seems to be sulking
(?) and who knows where Karl is (?).

:-)
Rgds
John Butler






"Mark Hoffman" <markhoffman@onebox.com> wrote in message
news:3baa3070$1@news.devx.com...
>
> Every so often I drop by this discussion board to see other's opinions on
> NET and the like.
>
> I'm absolutely floored by the unprofessionalism, childish behavior and
downright
> insulting messages. Exactly how do comments referring to people having sex
> with their sister have anything to do with discussing .NET?
>
> What's even more shocking is that some of the participants are fairly well
> known, and supposedly respected, members of the VB community.
>
> I know we're all going to disagree about .NET's impact on our industry,
but
> can't we refrain from insulting people and cursing?
>
> Lighten up, folks....
>
> Mark
>
>

[Joe \Nuke Me Xemu\ Foster]

"John Butler" <jrbutler@nospambtclick.com> wrote in message <news:3baa6a6b$1@news.devx.com>...

> is still useful. I may be wrong, but I don't think any of the people, who
> accuse or get accused of various nefarious, incestous doings, really lose
> any sleep about the accusations or counter-accusations.

Naah. Especially not after taking my "meds"... Right, ZIan?

> Joe though, does
> tend to sound rather angry, most of the time (?), Mike seems to be sulking
> (?) and who knows where Karl is (?).

**** right I'm rather angry -- XP, FailStorm, and DOnTNET are clear and
present dangers to the value of my MSFT stock! Plus, if Microsoft goes
down, who fills the vacuum, the Scott and Larry show? <brrrr/>

--
Joe Foster <mailto:jlfoster%40znet.com> Sign the Check! <http://www.xenu.net/>
WARNING: I cannot be held responsible for the above They're coming to
because my cats have apparently learned to type. take me away, ha ha!

> ... and who knows where Karl is (?).
Please, don't say that too loud, I really don't miss him.

Jens

[Rob Teixeira]

Well, in Karl's defense - despite he and i having diametrically opposed viewpoints
about .NET - he has been an important member of the VB community for a long
time.
Now if I could only get him to actually sit down and do some real objective
analysis of .NET...

-Rob

<jens@esalar.be> wrote:
>> ... and who knows where Karl is (?).
>Please, don't say that too loud, I really don't miss him.
>
>Jens
>
>

[Kunle Odutola]

<jens@esalar.be> wrote in message news:3bab222b$1@news.devx.com...
> > ... and who knows where Karl is (?).
> Please, don't say that too loud, I really don't miss him.

LOL!!

Kunle

>
> Jens
>
>

[Larry Linson]

"Rob Teixeira" <RobTeixeira@@msn.com> wrote:

> Now if I could only get him to actually
> sit down and do some real objective
> analysis of .NET...

One more slighting comment from one of the Deluded.NET because someone, in
this case Karl, has not, in fact, abandoned his objectivity to become a Cheerleader.NET.
Karl has done some _really_ "objective" analysis; not "objective" in the
sense that ".NET is object-oriented so it must be better than anything that
isn't"; but objective in the sense that he evaluated the good, the bad, and
the ugly, evaluated its applicability to target audiences that he knows from
experience exist in the VB developer community, evaluated the impact on those
audiences, and is forthcoming in declaring what his evaluations led him to
believe, and why.

For example, I do not recall Karl making any sweeping, all-encompassing condemnation
of .NET -- that is, saying that .NET is basically no good for anything for
anybody. I do recall him making some very pointed, and well-reasoned condemnations
of VB.NET in regard to the majority of VB developers. Assuming .NET is successful,
VB.NET may well be good for the large, enterprise applications for which
Microsoft has (almost exclusively) promoted and pushed it. Karl, and many
others, think it is not good for what they (and I) perceive to be the majority
of VB users: people who do single-user standalone applications, straight
two-tier client-server, and very simple websites, and other applications
not requiring a web-centric, server-dependent, thin/browser-client approach.

[Patrick Steele]

In article <3bab5b1c$1@news.devx.com> (from Larry Linson
<larry.linson@ntpcug.org>),
> One more slighting comment from one of the Deluded.NET because someone, in
> this case Karl, has not, in fact, abandoned his objectivity to become a Cheerleader.NET.

I snipped the rest of your post, but I want to point out that I agree
with your view of Karl's opinion. I've also come to understand he likes
the stuff in .NET, he just doesn't like VB.NET.

So Rob's comment could have been more accurate by saying "VB.NET" and
not just ".NET". But is that any reason to jump on the guy and start
the name calling?

--
Patrick Steele

[Rob Teixeira]

Larry,
I'm going to say this in as nice a way as I can right now:
Piss off.

There was no slighting intended in that comment. I respect Karl as a leader
in the VB community. However, while he's done a lot of reading of the material
on .NET, and has composed a list of things he believs is missing/wrong from
VB.NET, there are two issues:
1) some entries in his list are not entirely correct
2) he has personally admitted to not physically doing much with the product
itself (which lends to the problems I saw in issue 1)

All I'm stating is that I hope that he sits down and actually does some programming
in .NET to more objectively refine his viewpoint. I'm not opposed to the
viewpoint itself, and I'm not bashing Karl.

Take your hypocritical "anti-cheerleading" rhetoric elsewhere. It has nothing
to do with this thread.

This forum is already far too polluted with irrelevant material in respect
to the discussion, I don't need you prompting more of it.

-Rob


"Larry Linson" <larry.linson@ntpcug.org> wrote:
>
>"Rob Teixeira" <RobTeixeira@@msn.com> wrote:
>
> > Now if I could only get him to actually
> > sit down and do some real objective
> > analysis of .NET...
>
>One more slighting comment from one of the Deluded.NET because someone,
in
>this case Karl, has not, in fact, abandoned his objectivity to become a
Cheerleader.NET.
>Karl has done some _really_ "objective" analysis; not "objective" in the
>sense that ".NET is object-oriented so it must be better than anything that
>isn't"; but

[snip a bunch of pointless crap]

[Larry Linson]

"Rob Teixeira" <RobTeixeira@@msn.com> wrote:

>Larry,
>I'm going to say this in as nice a way as I can right now:
>Piss off.

I thank you very kindly for saying it "nicely". Certainly, if that is "nicely",
it wouldn't likely have been suitable for a public forum if you hadn't done
it "nicely". And, I'd certainly hate for you to put one of our Esteemed Section
Leaders in a position where they wer forced to have to admonish a fellow
Deluded.NETter to "take it to the off.ramp".

> There was no slighting intended in that comment.
<meaningless ducking, dodging, and weasel-words snipped>

It was, indeed, a "slighting comment", particularly in view of the original
post in this thread, the one that Kunle found so entertaining. If you didn't
_intend_ to slight Karl, then you should have engaged your brain before activating
your typing fingertips, considered what you wrote, and not written something
that did slight him.

> Take your hypocritical "anti-cheerleading"
> rhetoric elsewhere. It has nothing to do
> with this thread.

You may not like my opinions, you may not like my characterizations, but
they are not in the least "hypocritical". Drag out your Webster's and your
Roget's and check.

> This forum is already far too polluted with
> irrelevant material in respect to the discussion,
> I don't need you prompting more of it.

Well, Rob, I really didn't know that it was _your_ forum and that you were
the one who had the authority to decide what should and should not be posted.
That, too, seems typical of the Deluded.NET crowd... to think that this is
vb.dotnet.praisetotheheavens instead of vb.dotnet.discussion as I read it
to be.

[Zane Thomas]

Larry,

> And, I'd certainly hate for you to put one of our Esteemed Section
> Leaders in a position where they wer forced to have to admonish a fellow
> Deluded.NETter to "take it to the off.ramp".

A number of people, including you and Joe (and frequently in his case given
his proclivity to call people liars), have been admonished to "take it to
the off ramp". Since you and he refuse it's a bit amusing to see you now
whining and trying to make a case that you aren't being treated fairly.

If you want to see something resembling rational discussion here then take
*your* rants to the offramp. You don't have a leg to stand on when it comes
to complaining about what other people post here.

Zane

[Rob Teixeira]

"Larry Linson" <larry.linson@ntpcug.org> wrote:
>
>I thank you very kindly for saying it "nicely". Certainly, if that is "nicely",
>it wouldn't likely have been suitable for a public forum if you hadn't done
>it "nicely". And, I'd certainly hate for you to put one of our Esteemed
Section
>Leaders in a position where they wer forced to have to admonish a fellow
>Deluded.NETter to "take it to the off.ramp".

The "section leader" is free to admonish anyone he likes.

> > There was no slighting intended in that comment.
> <meaningless ducking, dodging, and weasel-words snipped>
>
>It was, indeed, a "slighting comment", particularly in view of the original
>post in this thread, the one that Kunle found so entertaining. If you didn't
>_intend_ to slight Karl, then you should have engaged your brain before
activating
>your typing fingertips, considered what you wrote, and not written something
>that did slight him.

BS: I was trying to defend Karl, and this was far *before* Kunle, or anyone
else for that matter, had posted.
You are *inferring* that it was intended as a slight, nothing more.

> > Take your hypocritical "anti-cheerleading"
> > rhetoric elsewhere. It has nothing to do
> > with this thread.
>
>You may not like my opinions, you may not like my characterizations, but
>they are not in the least "hypocritical". Drag out your Webster's and your
>Roget's and check.

I know presicely what it means.
And if you can't determine that I'm saying you and and your little gang are
frequently guilty of the same things you accuse others of doing, then it
is you who should drag out the dictionary.

> > This forum is already far too polluted with
> > irrelevant material in respect to the discussion,
> > I don't need you prompting more of it.
>
>Well, Rob, I really didn't know that it was _your_ forum and that you were
>the one who had the authority to decide what should and should not be posted.
>That, too, seems typical of the Deluded.NET crowd... to think that this
is
>vb.dotnet.praisetotheheavens instead of vb.dotnet.discussion as I read it
>to be.

It is the *.NET* discussion forum, which has nothing to do with your ramblings
in this thread. Can it be clearer than that?
You are inferring a conflict where there is none, in several cases.
If you have a valid point, for or against .NET, feel free to continue posting.
If you want to promote argumentative ranting, do it somewhere else.

As for this branch of the thread, it's over. If Karl feels I've slighted
him, he can take it up with me personally without your help.

-Rob

[Mike Mitchell]

On Thu, 20 Sep 2001 23:25:57 +0100, "John Butler"
<jrbutler@nospambtclick.com> wrote:

>tend to sound rather angry, most of the time (?), Mike seems to be sulking
>(?) and who knows where Karl is (?).

I am not sulking. In the aftermath of the atrocities perpetrated on
America, I thought the last thing you lot would need right now is some
clever sod like me from the UK giving you all grief about Microsoft,
since the kinds of discussions we hold here disappear into an abyss of
insignificance in comparison.

MM