Re: VBClasic#.NET (OT)

[Jay Glynn]

>improved. And the IDE that I use, although not perfect, beats the VB6 IDE
>hands down and has for as many years that I've been using it. And I use
>both daily for distributed computing.

I'm currently evaluating Java IDE. Which one are you using?? Why do you think
it is so good?

[Mark]

"Jay Glynn" <jlsglynn@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>improved. And the IDE that I use, although not perfect, beats the VB6
IDE
>>hands down and has for as many years that I've been using it. And I use
>>both daily for distributed computing.
>
>I'm currently evaluating Java IDE. Which one are you using?? Why do you
think
>it is so good?

I was hoping to avoid mentioning that to avoid flaming. Plus, this is discussion
is for VB.NET. I can email it to you or discuss it in a Java discussion.

Mark

[Jay Glynn]

>
>I was hoping to avoid mentioning that to avoid flaming.

Chicken ;-)

>Plus, this is discussion
>is for VB.NET. I can email it to you or discuss it in a Java discussion.
>

Email is fine. I'm just curious what others think...

[Aaron Sevivas]

JBuilder wins hands down in my opinion..

although I heard Together rocks (and has a price tag to match.. like $15000)..


I'm using JBuilder personal version at work (I know, not supposed to..),
it itegrates seamlessly with with many software systems which are on the
perimeter of the project through the use of plugins.. U can find plugins
that integrates source control systems (clearcase) into the ide.. ANT build
utility, refactoring tools, weblogic specific EJB deployment descriptor utilities..
etc.. jbuilder feels ALOT lighter than Forte in my opinion and has a much
better code insight utility than Symantec's cafe (which, even in the enterprise
version didn't show return types.. Its been a while since I 've seen cafe,
so that might have changed).. I still haven't found GUI creator support
in a Java IDE that comes close to the MS Visual Studio ide though.. Java
GUIs stink anyways, in my opinion.. -(here we go..)


"Jay Glynn" <jlsglynn@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>I was hoping to avoid mentioning that to avoid flaming.
>
>Chicken ;-)
>
>>Plus, this is discussion
>>is for VB.NET. I can email it to you or discuss it in a Java discussion.
>>
>
>Email is fine. I'm just curious what others think...
>

[MarkN]

>... in my opinion.. -(here we go..)

And that is why I took my opinion offline. I feel the opposite about Java
GUI. I can do more with Swing and much easier than I can do in VB and J++.
Maybe others can't. I hope .Net will solve those issues when it is released.

Mark

[Aaron Sevivas]

"MarkN" <mnuttall@nospam.com> wrote:
>And that is why I took my opinion offline. I feel the opposite about Java
>GUI. I can do more with Swing and much easier than I can do in VB and J++.
> Maybe others can't. I hope .Net will solve those issues when it is released.

I'm curious. what is it, as it pertains to GUIs, that u can do easier in
java than in vb6? Besides the fact u can have controls resize with forms
:P

The first thing that strikes VB programmers when writing java guis is the
fact that theres hundreds of lines of code thats generated after writing
just a mediocre in complexity gui. Number 2, all java guis feel nastily
non-native. Their unresponsive and java controls lack intrinsic funcions
that come natively to win32 controls (like right click menus.. u have to
specifically code fuctions onto java controls.. vb2, but there are default
behaviors u dont get in java).. just my $.02..
~aaron

[MarkN]

BTW, I've used VB since the early 90's so I have had good experience with
it.

Are you talking about AWT or Swing? I don't care much for AWT.

Anyway, yes, resizable forms - I consider it a tremendous advantage being
able to using layout managers. Layout managers make it much easier to dynmically
add controls to a 'form'. Also, I can create reusable components without
having to deal with creating an ActiveX Control. I can model data without
having copy it multiple times (MVC).

I'm not saying Java GUI is perfect. There are things that drive me nuts.
It comes down to what does one want to deal with.

If you have a good Java IDE, it will "hide" most of the generated code from
you (kind of like VB does). The upside is that I can change it if I need
to. One can't in VB6.

[Steve Dee]

> you (kind of like VB does). The upside is that I can change it if I need
> to. One can't in VB6.

Untrue. It's just not as obvious as Java.

"MarkN" <mnuttall@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:3bd00818$1@news.devx.com...
>
> BTW, I've used VB since the early 90's so I have had good experience with
> it.
>
> Are you talking about AWT or Swing? I don't care much for AWT.
>
> Anyway, yes, resizable forms - I consider it a tremendous advantage being
> able to using layout managers. Layout managers make it much easier to
dynmically
> add controls to a 'form'. Also, I can create reusable components without
> having to deal with creating an ActiveX Control. I can model data without
> having copy it multiple times (MVC).
>
> I'm not saying Java GUI is perfect. There are things that drive me nuts.
> It comes down to what does one want to deal with.
>
> If you have a good Java IDE, it will "hide" most of the generated code
from
> you (kind of like VB does). The upside is that I can change it if I need
> to. One can't in VB6.
>
>

[MarkN]

Ok, if what you say is true, then not being obvious is better? MS doesn't
seem to think so because it will be more obvious in .NET.