Looking for VB.Net Program

[Mark Gonzales]

Anyone know where I can find a VB.Net program to mess around with (not the
source - just the completed exe). Maybe someone knows of a downloadable
trial software that was created in VB.Net? I'd kind of like to see what it
look like - don't really care what it does.
--


Thanks,
Mark

[Phil Weber]

> Anyone know where I can find a VB.NET program
> to mess around with?

Mark: Try...

http://www.gotdotnet.com/userarea/
http://msdn.microsoft.com/vbasic/dow...isualbasic.asp
http://www.syncfusion.com/downloads/evals.asp
(I'm thinking particularly of the Essential Suite Interactive Showcase)

There are also numerous sample apps available at http://www.fawcette.com/vsm
..
---
Phil Weber

[Mark Gonzales]

"Phil Weber" <pweber@nospam.fawcette.com> wrote in message
news:3d49c00d$1@10.1.10.29...
> > Anyone know where I can find a VB.NET program
> > to mess around with?
>
> Mark: Try...
>
> http://www.gotdotnet.com/userarea/
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/vbasic/dow...isualbasic.asp
> http://www.syncfusion.com/downloads/evals.asp
> (I'm thinking particularly of the Essential Suite Interactive
Showcase)
>
> There are also numerous sample apps available at
http://www.fawcette.com/vsm
> .

Thanks, Phil.
--

Mark

> ---
> Phil Weber
>
>

[Arthur Wood]

Mark,
Surprising as it may sound, there is VERY little that you will be able
to discern from RUNNING a program, created with VB.NET that willlook diferent
from the SAME program, created with VB6.

In fact, there is very little, externally, that will indicated which verion
of VB was used to create the program.

Arthur Wood


"Mark Gonzales" <markgonzalesx@attbi.com> wrote:
>Anyone know where I can find a VB.Net program to mess around with (not the
>source - just the completed exe). Maybe someone knows of a downloadable
>trial software that was created in VB.Net? I'd kind of like to see what
it
>look like - don't really care what it does.
>--
>
>
>Thanks,
>Mark
>
>

[Larry Triezenberg]

But what does that have to do with how it "looks"?

"Michael (michka) Kaplan" <michka@spamless.trigeminal.nospamcom> wrote in
message news:3d49dac6$1@10.1.10.29...
> It takes me less than five seconds to install the Hindi traditional
keyboard
> and type in vanakam to an application.
>
> Clearly you do not develop multilingual applications, applications that
deal
> with complex scripts, or apps that handle Unicode-only languages.
>
> "Arthur Wood" <wooda@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:3d49d9cc@10.1.10.29...
> >
> > Mark,
> > Surprising as it may sound, there is VERY little that you will be
able
> > to discern from RUNNING a program, created with VB.NET that willlook
> diferent
> > from the SAME program, created with VB6.

[Rune Bivrin]

Michael,

Being Swedish myself, I commend and applaud your efforts to educate the
world about the existence of non-english speaking people. I have suffered
countless brain-dead applications that needlessly either view anything
outside of a-z non-alphabetic or blindly remove the diacriticals above
letters, thus possibly turning innocent words into dirty words.

However, I think maybe you are a trifle over-zealous right now. Most of us
would be incapable of correctly assessing the correctness of the
presentation of foreign script, Bengali, Hindi, Thai or even US-English.
Furthermore, many of probably have little interest in capitalizing on the
markets they represent, given the sizable market of any single one of these.

Thus, the UNICODE marvels of .NET are probably something that are left out
when doing a quick surface scan of a VB.NET application, wouldn't you think?
At least for the majority of us.

However, as Arthur wrote, there's probably not much to see in the running
application that differentiate .NET apps from other native Windows apps.
They don't come across as your average quirky and sluggish 1:st generation
Java applet. The biggest difference will probably be in the greater ratio of
forms that resize correctly.

Rune Bivrin

"Michael (michka) Kaplan" <michka@spamless.trigeminal.nospamcom> wrote in
message news:3d4a992f@10.1.10.29...
> Um, it can display this data in its UI? So you launch it and see Hindi or
> Tamil or Bangali data?
>
>
> --
> MichKa
>
> Michael Kaplan
> Trigeminal Software, Inc. -- http://www.trigeminal.com/
>
> International VB? -- http://www.i18nWithVB.com/
> C++? MSLU -- http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/01/10/
>
>
> "Larry Triezenberg" <ltriezenberg@pathsys.com> wrote in message
> news:3d4a635b$1@10.1.10.29...
> > But what does that have to do with how it "looks"?
> >
> > "Michael (michka) Kaplan" <michka@spamless.trigeminal.nospamcom> wrote
in
> > message news:3d49dac6$1@10.1.10.29...
> > > It takes me less than five seconds to install the Hindi traditional
> > keyboard
> > > and type in vanakam to an application.
> > >
> > > Clearly you do not develop multilingual applications, applications
that
> > deal
> > > with complex scripts, or apps that handle Unicode-only languages.
> > >
> > > "Arthur Wood" <wooda@nospam.com> wrote in message
> > > news:3d49d9cc@10.1.10.29...
> > > >
> > > > Mark,
> > > > Surprising as it may sound, there is VERY little that you will be
> > able
> > > > to discern from RUNNING a program, created with VB.NET that willlook
> > > diferent
> > > > from the SAME program, created with VB6.
> >
> >
>
>

[Phil Weber]

> Now you will not see them well represented in this forum,
> but that is because Fawcette and DevX do not consider
> those other markets to be a priority -- in meetings with
> Patrick Meader and Jim Fawcette I have been told point
> blank that reaching these markets are not major goals
> of either the magazines or the conferences.

Michael: http://www.fawcette.com/global/
---
Phil Weber

[Phil Weber]

> Their global program and its distributor system
> is entirely unimpressive.

Michael: How would you suggest FTP reach non-English-speaking markets, in
addition to translating online and magazine content into their languages,
and holding conferences there?
---
Phil Weber

[Phil Weber]

> I have talked to both Patrick and Jim about this...

Michael: How recently? I can't speak for the magazine side, but the online
business (where I work) is actively pursuing non-English-speaking markets.
---
Phil Weber

[Phil Weber]

> Maybe plans have changed since then, but I have not
> seen any big changes -- did something new happen there
> in the DevX realm?

Michael: DevX has nothing to do with FTP; they're entirely separate
companies. I'm talking about FTPOnline ( http://www.fawcette.com ), which
just launched a Chinese-language site, and has an Italian-language version
in the works. These were both mentioned on the FTP Global page I cited a few
messages ago; perhaps you missed them?
---
Phil Weber

[Phil Weber]

> Entirely separate companies which are I believe still
> owned by the same people, right? :-)

Michael: Jim Fawcette founded DevX, but he does not "own" it, nor is he at
all involved in its day-to-day operation. I don't know if he even holds any
DevX stock. They are, as I said, entirely separate companies.
---
Phil Weber

[Phil Weber]

> You decided to ignore the rest of my post? The part
> with the actual content? <g>

Michael: I don't know how to respond to it: you're entitled to your opinion,
and the magazines and conferences are outside my purvue. I only replied
initially to let you know that FTPOnline is, in fact, actively pursuing
non-English-speaking markets.
---
Phil Weber

[Rune Bivrin]

"Michael \(michka\) Kaplan" <michka@spamless.trigeminal.nospamcom> wrote
in news:3d4c2b55$1@10.1.10.29:

> "Rune Bivrin" <runeUNSPAM@bivrin.com> wrote...
>
>> However, I think maybe you are a trifle over-zealous right now. Most
>> of us would be incapable of correctly assessing the correctness of
>> the
>> presentation of foreign script, Bengali, Hindi, Thai or even
>> US-English.
>
> Actually, anyone can tell that a UI that shows ???????? is wrong. :-)
>
Maybe so, but just being able to say that something is wrong isn't quite
enough to say why and how it's wrong (could be a ref-count problem..). One
has to be able to test it and tell if it's right, I'd say. Which may be a
problem for quite a few of us.


>> Furthermore, many of probably have little interest in capitalizing on
>> the markets they represent, given the sizable market of any single
>> one of these.
>
> Well, over 60% of MS sales are outside the US, and 70-100% of those
> people do not consider English an acceptable option -- so anyone whose
> sales figures are not the same as that are missing out on a lot of
> potenial sales?
>:-)

And a lot of potential work too. After all, either learning Hindi, Japanese
and a few other languages along with their particular cultural quirks, or
hiring and managing the people that do would be a formidable task, to say
the least.


>
>> Thus, the UNICODE marvels of .NET are probably something that
>> are left out when doing a quick surface scan of a VB.NET application,
>> wouldn't you think? At least for the majority of us.
>
> Well, its not what I see, but then I deal with a lot of those
> developers in other countries.

It all depends on what group of people you define as *us*. You have the
time and resources to devote to these issues, which is great. A lot of the
people that follow this NG probably don't. Heck, most of them can't spell,
even in their own language. Can you all write "I will not miss-spell
compatibility" 100 times on the black board, please :-]

Last night, I tried to configure my newly bought TV using the on-screen
menu. However, that came up in Arabic. At least that's what I think it was.
It proved quite challenging to change that, since I couldn't tell which
menu defined the language. It would have been much simpler if the menus had
been all engrish. (After a while, I cheated and read the manual, but what
fun is that? It was still hard getting out of Arab mode, though. Left and
right didn't quite match my Swedish manual).

Rune Bivrin

[Phil Weber]

> Hmmm.... I claimed that I had talked to Patrick and Jim about
> the policies of the mag and the conferences, and you chose to
> counter my claim yet both of the areas I was talking about are
> outside of your purvue?

Michael: I was disagreeing with your statement that "Fawcette...[does] not
consider those other markets to be a priority." FTPOnline (a division of
Fawcette) has demonstrated that it does consider the Chinese and
Italian-speaking markets to be a priority. That was all I was trying to
point out with my initial reply.

> I then point out that the ownership is probably about the same
> as it was despite FTP and DevX being separate companies, which
> you start to contest till you realize that you cannot state whether
> they are owned by the same people (or should I say person?)

You have no more information than I do about who owns DevX, so it's not
productive to argue that point. Even if JF is a majority shareholder,
however, I can state from personal experience (having been employed by both
companies) that he is not involved in the day-to-day operation of DevX, and
they are, in fact, separate companies. If you have something other than
baseless conjecture to dispute that statement, feel free to share it.

> I made a comment about the DevX international story after a
> conversation with Matt Carter and you did not comment at all.

What would you like me say? Neither Matt Carter nor I know anything about
DevX's current international strategy: neither of us has worked for the
company for 18 months or more, and as I keep trying to tell you, FTP has
nothing to do with DevX.

I have had enough of this argument. You may now have the last word, if you
wish.
---
Phil Weber

[Gary Nelson]

Michka,

> The other language sites are interesting and very cool -- of course that
> still does not improve their international subscription policy, their
> translation policy at conferences, or any of the other things I suggested
> would be crucial to change if they truly expected to get numbers anything
> like MS sales of the products they write magazines for?

From experience I can say that it is one thing to translate the interface of
a program, and another thing entirely to translate the documentation. The
program we sell has a multilingual interface, but the documentation is only
in one language (Spanish as we are based in Spain). Doing a good job of
translating a technical magazine into many languages is a very imposing and
costly task, and I would doubt very much that FTP could even cover costs
translating into some of the languages that you mention. For a time FTP had
a Spainsh version of VBPJ, but I believe it went under (at least I haven't
seen it for some time). I am of the opinion that if a person wants to be a
professional programmer, learning English should be one of their priorities.

Gary