ASP.NET vs. Flash vs. Java

[Michael Gautier]

Fellow programmer's, I would appreciate your opinions based on your many years
of experience about client technologies and technical strategy.

My customer wants a cross platform, offline capable, data entry application.
Before I knew of the cross platform and offline requirements, I was pushing
Windows Forms or Web Forms. Due to the new requirements, the following matrix
was proposed:

WinForms | WebForms | Flash | Java | Java Applet
----------------------------------------------------------------
Cross Platform X X X X
----------------------------------------------------------------
Offline X X X
----------------------------------------------------------------
Robust Data Entry X ? X X X
----------------------------------------------------------------
Consistency N/A ? X X X
----------------------------------------------------------------
Deployment .Net Client N/A Plugin JRE Plugin
----------------------------------------------------------------
Experience High Highest Low Lowest Lowest
----------------------------------------------------------------
Learning Curve Moderate High High
----------------------------------------------------------------

Basically, he is leaning towards Flash first and Java Second. The predetermined
delivery date is March 2003 (They wanted January). 2 - 3 months have been
slated for development. This would compete against an existing product that
is a pre-.NET Win32 desktop application from a competitor. They want to beat
out the competition by getting in Mac users. Offline is debateable and was
to be put off until the next phase but they didn't want two or more UIs.


My recommendation is ASP.NET if rich data entry and offline are acceptable
tradeoffs. Flash would come next. However, I am getting the sense that Java
or Flash would be the best tool for the job.

Several questions:

1. Am I missing anything related to the breakdown of the technologies?
2. Is there a way to maintain the .NET technologies and achieve the customer's
desires? I am thinking, no, but I have to double check just in case. The
decision will be based off of all relevant parameters.
3. Would anyone do anything differently?

I will post this in a few areas to get different perspectives. Thank you
in advance.

[Noel Lysaght]

Michael,
There is no reasons why you can't use any of the technologies you propose
for both on-line and off-line processing. If what you mean by off-line is
a mobile device or for when there is no connection available to the main
server. You should have a look at message queue's and Web Services as a means
of delivering data once the main servers come back on-line. Any of the technologies
you have mentioned are capable of this you just need to consider a store-and-forward
paradigm as well as a direct on-line paradigm.
Form the very short abstract of the problem you are proposing to solve
I would use either Web-forms or JSP. Develop the system to work using message
queues and treat everything as if it were off-line where possible.
Obviously for things like stock quantities or customer balances you need
an on-line facility for these but these can be managed using web-services
where you handle the situation of the service not being available.

If the main server is on-line depending on your client configuration you
can have the messages delivered by the messaging software (IBM’s MQ Series
or Microsoft’s MSMQ) or else you can manually deliver the information over
a Web Service by reading the queues directly on the client are posting the
information to a web-service.

Anyway without a detailed description of what exactly you need when in
on-line mode or off-line (any even what you mean by those terms) it is difficult
to propose an critic of you what you are planning.

I know this is not of much help in the decision of which technology to
use, I have never used Flash but have used all of the other quite extensively
and in my opinion there is not much between any of them.

Hope this is of some help, or raises a few questions for though

Kind Regards
Noel


"Michael Gautier" <vb.@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>
>Fellow programmer's, I would appreciate your opinions based on your many
years
>of experience about client technologies and technical strategy.
>
>My customer wants a cross platform, offline capable, data entry application.
>Before I knew of the cross platform and offline requirements, I was pushing
>Windows Forms or Web Forms. Due to the new requirements, the following matrix
>was proposed:
>
> WinForms | WebForms | Flash | Java | Java Applet
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>Cross Platform X X X X
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>Offline X X X
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>Robust Data Entry X ? X X X
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>Consistency N/A ? X X X
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>Deployment .Net Client N/A Plugin JRE Plugin
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>Experience High Highest Low Lowest Lowest
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>Learning Curve Moderate High High
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Basically, he is leaning towards Flash first and Java Second. The predetermined
>delivery date is March 2003 (They wanted January). 2 - 3 months have been
>slated for development. This would compete against an existing product that
>is a pre-.NET Win32 desktop application from a competitor. They want to
beat
>out the competition by getting in Mac users. Offline is debateable and was
>to be put off until the next phase but they didn't want two or more UIs.
>
>
>My recommendation is ASP.NET if rich data entry and offline are acceptable
>tradeoffs. Flash would come next. However, I am getting the sense that Java
>or Flash would be the best tool for the job.
>
>Several questions:
>
>1. Am I missing anything related to the breakdown of the technologies?
>2. Is there a way to maintain the .NET technologies and achieve the customer's
>desires? I am thinking, no, but I have to double check just in case. The
>decision will be based off of all relevant parameters.
>3. Would anyone do anything differently?
>
>I will post this in a few areas to get different perspectives. Thank you
>in advance.
>
>
>
>

[Michael Gautier]

I apologize, I didn't mean offline as in the application server being down,
but offline as in the user's connection being down. These users would be
nationwide (eventually world) and not on our network (Internet).

My customer's objective is to have an application that can be used by their
customers if their customer's connection to the server is offline. And it
has to be cross platform. That was the reason for not considering WinForms
and standard Web Forms. In addition, he only wants one UI (development costs
I guess). The original proposal last year was to develop a web application
and then develop an offline component later. He would also like to get good
data entry capabilities as this application would compete against an
existing competitors application which is a Win32 Desktop application that's
been out for over 7 years.

I am trying to figure out which would be the best strategy for his
requirements. Any suggestions based off of this would be appreciated.

"Noel Lysaght" <btc@iol.ie> wrote in message news:3d771653$1@10.1.10.29...
>
> Michael,
> There is no reasons why you can't use any of the technologies you
propose
> for both on-line and off-line processing. If what you mean by off-line is
> a mobile device or for when there is no connection available to the main
> server. You should have a look at message queue's and Web Services as a
means
> of delivering data once the main servers come back on-line. Any of the
technologies
> you have mentioned are capable of this you just need to consider a
store-and-forward
> paradigm as well as a direct on-line paradigm.
> Form the very short abstract of the problem you are proposing to solve
> I would use either Web-forms or JSP. Develop the system to work using
message
> queues and treat everything as if it were off-line where possible.
> Obviously for things like stock quantities or customer balances you need
> an on-line facility for these but these can be managed using web-services
> where you handle the situation of the service not being available.
>
> If the main server is on-line depending on your client configuration you
> can have the messages delivered by the messaging software (IBM's MQ Series
> or Microsoft's MSMQ) or else you can manually deliver the information over
> a Web Service by reading the queues directly on the client are posting the
> information to a web-service.
>
> Anyway without a detailed description of what exactly you need when in
> on-line mode or off-line (any even what you mean by those terms) it is
difficult
> to propose an critic of you what you are planning.
>
> I know this is not of much help in the decision of which technology to
> use, I have never used Flash but have used all of the other quite
extensively
> and in my opinion there is not much between any of them.
>
> Hope this is of some help, or raises a few questions for though
>
> Kind Regards
> Noel
>
>
> "Michael Gautier" <vb.@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> >
> >Fellow programmer's, I would appreciate your opinions based on your many
> years
> >of experience about client technologies and technical strategy.
> >
> >My customer wants a cross platform, offline capable, data entry
application.
> >Before I knew of the cross platform and offline requirements, I was
pushing
> >Windows Forms or Web Forms. Due to the new requirements, the following
matrix
> >was proposed:
> >
> > WinForms | WebForms | Flash | Java | Java Applet
> >----------------------------------------------------------------
> >Cross Platform X X X X
> >----------------------------------------------------------------
> >Offline X X X
> >----------------------------------------------------------------
> >Robust Data Entry X ? X X X
> >----------------------------------------------------------------
> >Consistency N/A ? X X X
> >----------------------------------------------------------------
> >Deployment .Net Client N/A Plugin JRE Plugin
> >----------------------------------------------------------------
> >Experience High Highest Low Lowest Lowest
> >----------------------------------------------------------------
> >Learning Curve Moderate High High
> >----------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >Basically, he is leaning towards Flash first and Java Second. The
predetermined
> >delivery date is March 2003 (They wanted January). 2 - 3 months have been
> >slated for development. This would compete against an existing product
that
> >is a pre-.NET Win32 desktop application from a competitor. They want to
> beat
> >out the competition by getting in Mac users. Offline is debateable and
was
> >to be put off until the next phase but they didn't want two or more UIs.
> >
> >
> >My recommendation is ASP.NET if rich data entry and offline are
acceptable
> >tradeoffs. Flash would come next. However, I am getting the sense that
Java
> >or Flash would be the best tool for the job.
> >
> >Several questions:
> >
> >1. Am I missing anything related to the breakdown of the technologies?
> >2. Is there a way to maintain the .NET technologies and achieve the
customer's
> >desires? I am thinking, no, but I have to double check just in case. The
> >decision will be based off of all relevant parameters.
> >3. Would anyone do anything differently?
> >
> >I will post this in a few areas to get different perspectives. Thank you
> >in advance.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

[James Knowles]

I would go with ASP.NET or Windows Forms or Java . Do not use Flash it is
far to basic for this requirement and will limit you in the long run. If
you need the user to work and then sync then Windows Forms would work better
in that situation and you could ajust for deployment and update issues with
a Update Componet see http://www.gotdotnet.com/team/window...ppupdater.aspx
and use Message Queues or store it on a local database then sync.
ASP.NET will give you a development advantage and would probably scale better
but you would have no offline sync function so may not be the best choice
especailly if you compete has already an option of this... So maybe JAVA
or Windows Forms would be best. I would go personally with Windows Forms
but if you are looking for Mac users you will have to go for Java as they
are all turning over to a Unix environment with Mac OS X.. But there are
some signs that .NET is getting ported to Unix or at least the ASP.NET is
so far. It might be better to write two clients one with the Mac Java interface
and one for Windows 32 as there is different implementation of UI for Java
is some respects for Mac OS X. Check out www.mac.com/developer and you will
see they have created several layers of UI for Java developers to use and
develop on top of.

there is my ten cents...

"Michael Gautier" <gautier_michael@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I apologize, I didn't mean offline as in the application server being down,
>but offline as in the user's connection being down. These users would be
>nationwide (eventually world) and not on our network (Internet).
>
>My customer's objective is to have an application that can be used by their
>customers if their customer's connection to the server is offline. And it
>has to be cross platform. That was the reason for not considering WinForms
>and standard Web Forms. In addition, he only wants one UI (development costs
>I guess). The original proposal last year was to develop a web application
>and then develop an offline component later. He would also like to get good
>data entry capabilities as this application would compete against an
>existing competitors application which is a Win32 Desktop application that's
>been out for over 7 years.
>
>I am trying to figure out which would be the best strategy for his
>requirements. Any suggestions based off of this would be appreciated.
>
>"Noel Lysaght" <btc@iol.ie> wrote in message news:3d771653$1@10.1.10.29...
>>
>> Michael,
>> There is no reasons why you can't use any of the technologies you
>propose
>> for both on-line and off-line processing. If what you mean by off-line
is
>> a mobile device or for when there is no connection available to the main
>> server. You should have a look at message queue's and Web Services as
a
>means
>> of delivering data once the main servers come back on-line. Any of the
>technologies
>> you have mentioned are capable of this you just need to consider a
>store-and-forward
>> paradigm as well as a direct on-line paradigm.
>> Form the very short abstract of the problem you are proposing to solve
>> I would use either Web-forms or JSP. Develop the system to work using
>message
>> queues and treat everything as if it were off-line where possible.
>> Obviously for things like stock quantities or customer balances you need
>> an on-line facility for these but these can be managed using web-services
>> where you handle the situation of the service not being available.
>>
>> If the main server is on-line depending on your client configuration you
>> can have the messages delivered by the messaging software (IBM's MQ Series
>> or Microsoft's MSMQ) or else you can manually deliver the information
over
>> a Web Service by reading the queues directly on the client are posting
the
>> information to a web-service.
>>
>> Anyway without a detailed description of what exactly you need when
in
>> on-line mode or off-line (any even what you mean by those terms) it is
>difficult
>> to propose an critic of you what you are planning.
>>
>> I know this is not of much help in the decision of which technology
to
>> use, I have never used Flash but have used all of the other quite
>extensively
>> and in my opinion there is not much between any of them.
>>
>> Hope this is of some help, or raises a few questions for though
>>
>> Kind Regards
>> Noel
>>
>>
>> "Michael Gautier" <vb.@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>> >
>> >Fellow programmer's, I would appreciate your opinions based on your many
>> years
>> >of experience about client technologies and technical strategy.
>> >
>> >My customer wants a cross platform, offline capable, data entry
>application.
>> >Before I knew of the cross platform and offline requirements, I was
>pushing
>> >Windows Forms or Web Forms. Due to the new requirements, the following
>matrix
>> >was proposed:
>> >
>> > WinForms | WebForms | Flash | Java | Java Applet
>> >----------------------------------------------------------------
>> >Cross Platform X X X X
>> >----------------------------------------------------------------
>> >Offline X X X
>> >----------------------------------------------------------------
>> >Robust Data Entry X ? X X X
>> >----------------------------------------------------------------
>> >Consistency N/A ? X X X
>> >----------------------------------------------------------------
>> >Deployment .Net Client N/A Plugin JRE Plugin
>> >----------------------------------------------------------------
>> >Experience High Highest Low Lowest Lowest
>> >----------------------------------------------------------------
>> >Learning Curve Moderate High High
>> >----------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >Basically, he is leaning towards Flash first and Java Second. The
>predetermined
>> >delivery date is March 2003 (They wanted January). 2 - 3 months have
been
>> >slated for development. This would compete against an existing product
>that
>> >is a pre-.NET Win32 desktop application from a competitor. They want
to
>> beat
>> >out the competition by getting in Mac users. Offline is debateable and
>was
>> >to be put off until the next phase but they didn't want two or more UIs.
>> >
>> >
>> >My recommendation is ASP.NET if rich data entry and offline are
>acceptable
>> >tradeoffs. Flash would come next. However, I am getting the sense that
>Java
>> >or Flash would be the best tool for the job.
>> >
>> >Several questions:
>> >
>> >1. Am I missing anything related to the breakdown of the technologies?
>> >2. Is there a way to maintain the .NET technologies and achieve the
>customer's
>> >desires? I am thinking, no, but I have to double check just in case.
The
>> >decision will be based off of all relevant parameters.
>> >3. Would anyone do anything differently?
>> >
>> >I will post this in a few areas to get different perspectives. Thank
you
>> >in advance.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>