Classic ASP: Need help understanding the status of RDS


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Thread: Classic ASP: Need help understanding the status of RDS

  1. #1
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    Classic ASP: Need help understanding the status of RDS

    Hi there

    One of my clients has this web application that uses classic ASP technology and uses RDS (remote data services) in ASP pages to manipulate data on the client side, via some bound controls such as <input type=text>, etc.

    While it is a pretty cool application, I understand that RDS has been deprecated by Microsoft. What really is the implication of that? Can someone please tell me?

    The thing is migrating to .NET is not a feasible solution for the time being because of a tight money budget.

    If we are to stay with classic ASP, are there any technologies besides RDS we can use that we can manipulate data in .asp pages on the client side?

    Just to make sure I get the message through, here is what's inside the HTML code:

    <object classid="clsid:BD96C556-65A3-11D0-983A-00C04FC29E33" id="ADC1" height="1" width="1">
    </object>

    <script language=vbscript>
    sub window_onload()
    Dim objBusinessObj
    Set objBusinessObj = CreateObject(<something>)
    ADC1.SourceRecordset = objBusinessObj.GetData(<parameters>)
    end sub
    </script>


    Any ideas would be great.

    Thanks
    CC

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by calgarychinese
    I understand that RDS has been deprecated by Microsoft. What really is the implication of that? Can someone please tell me?
    The implication is that future versions of IE may not support RDS. I stress "may not" - there are a lot of classic ASP users still out there and Microsoft can't afford to pull the plug on them all at once any more than they could afford to pull the plug on VB6 all at once.

    I suspect you will be fine for the immediate future, however, it would most assurdly be in your best interest to start considering the move to ASP.NET - it is something that probably needs to be done before it HAS to be done.
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  3. #3
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    Hack,

    Thanks a lot for your quick reply. I assume based on your reply, that ASP.NET supports client-side data access too? (and are there any activex controls involved, just like RDS?)

    And are there really no other alternatives for client-side data access when it comes to classic ASP?

    Thanks.
    CC

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by calgarychinese
    I assume based on your reply, that ASP.NET supports client-side data access too?
    Yes
    Quote Originally Posted by calgarychinese
    (and are there any activex controls involved, just like RDS?)
    Yes
    Quote Originally Posted by calgarychinese
    And are there really no other alternatives for client-side data access when it comes to classic ASP?
    That would depend on what road you wanted to go down. There are a number of other web development languages, like Java, PHP, etc that might be worth investigating. I went from classic to .NET simply because that was the environment my customers/clients wanted to stay in. Many customers/clients, however, wouldn't know ASP from ASAP so the language used is often pretty much up to the programmer.
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  5. #5
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    Hi Hack

    Thanks again.

    The current application is large, with over 100 source files. It's been written in classic ASP and for us to change it to other languages like Java or PHP is not the feasible way because it involves too much time and money.

    We're just hoping that if we could replace RDS activex control with some other activex control, then that may impact us the least, because we're just swapping the <object> tag with another <object> tag. The question is whether this is possible or not.

    I have even thought about doing server-side data access, that way there won't be any RDS or client-side activex control, but even that would mean I have to change all our source files, and that again would mean a lot of time and money involved, so that's out too....

    So I guess to make it simple, my question is, are there any activex controls that we can use so we can just swap in with a different <object> tag and make the software work?

    Thanks
    CC

  6. #6
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    Going back to your original post/question.

    Is the program/site working fine now (with respect to RDS etc, etc) and your primary concern is will it continue to function down the road?

    Or, is there now something that either isn't working, or is a new feature the client wants, that you are having a problem with?
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  7. #7
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    Hi Hack

    Everything is working now. It's just that it's always been a worry that Microsoft may decide to disable RDS altogether one day, (for example, setting the kill bit of the RDS' CLSID in the registry through some of its future updates) rendering our application completely useless.... We definitely don't want to remove the kill bit if it ever happens - we have no desire to make these changes to our user's desktop.

    So, answer is, our primary concern is whether it'll continue to function down the road.

    Thanks
    CC

  8. #8
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    My opinion is that this could happen, however, it won't happen without Microsoft making an industry wide announcement and stipulating a cut off date.

    That cut off date would, if Microsoft follows the trends it has set for technology phase outs, provide ample time for all developers to ensure that the transition from RDS to <insert RDS replacement here> could take place with minimal impact.

    After all, they are in the business of making sure that people like you and I stay in business.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by calgarychinese
    I understand that RDS has been deprecated by Microsoft.
    I just spent some time googling and searching on MSDN and I couldn't find anything on this.

    Where did you get this information?
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  10. #10
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    Hack

    I hope what you said is true, that Microsoft will give us enough time to replace our old technology with new ones, although in one of its security reports, at http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sec.../ms06-014.mspx (look under Vulnerability Details), it actually attempts to set the kill bit for the RDS. I am not sure if it ever gets deployed to my own machine, because my application has always run, so I don't know if this ever goes into some kind of Microsoft updates.

    To answer your question, the information can be found here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms810810.aspx. Or if you use this as the search string at google

    rds deprecated site:microsoft.com

    you'll see lots of other information. What bugs me is that Microsoft never clearly states what are the alternatives to RDS; it did mention SOAP but even that I think has since become old technology and I don't know where to go from there.

    In a nutshell, our app uses RDS, client-side data access and disconnected result sets. I don't know what are some easy replacements to it without us having to rewrite the whole thing.

    I spent a few days googling here and there too, but completely in vain. I'm actually in the middle of evaluating the impact of RDS, but I can't find any useful information.

    Getting very desperate here.

    CC

  11. #11
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    Clearly I wasn't looking in the right place. In addition to what you found, I also found this:

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms811968.aspx

    I also found a couple of other things you might be interested in:

    SOAP Toolkit 2.0

    SOAP Toolkit 2.0 Definition
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  12. #12
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    Hi Hack

    Thanks for the information - I saw that earlier too about SOAP. What's very frustrating with MS is that the articles are never dated, so you don't know if you're looking at a new article or old. For example, the first link you gave me linked to a page that said RDS has been deprecated and that MS asked us to migrate to SOAP. They never marked the date, so when I went to your second link (SOAP Toolkit 2.0), if you scroll down a little, you'll see "SOAP Toolkit support will be retired in April 2005 with extended support retiring in April 2008."

    So all the articles MS provided I have found so far were simply telling us to move from one deprecated technology to another deprecated technology. In this case, I'm not sure if MS meant that the toolkit itself was deprecated or if SOAP technology was deprecated. In fact they even have SOAP Toolkit 3.0 (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...DisplayLang=en) but that toolkit support had also been deprecated.

    MS is now asking us to go to http://msdn.microsoft.com/webservices/ for the new technology, but that no doubt meant that I cannot just rewrite a few lines of code to my existing app; it must mean a major rewrite, which is exactly the thing I need to avoid to do because of time and money budget....

    Anyway, your SOAP Toolkit 2.0 Definition looks like a good read, and I decided I am still going to install the toolkit just to see what idea it has for us developers to remotely access Microsoft ADO Recordsets.

    I have pretty decided it's not possible to jump into a non-deprecated technology without major change to what we've got; but if I can jump to another deprecated that is at least not causing any security threats or concerns from our clients, maybe that's the road I'm willing to walk.

    Thanks a lot Hack. If you have any more info please send them my way too. You have been very patient with me, and I appreciate your help and opinion very much.

    Thanks
    CC

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by calgarychinese
    If you have any more info please send them my way too. You have been very patient with me, and I appreciate your help and opinion very much.
    I will. In fact, I guy I used to work with left our company to go to work for a consultanting firm that is a Microsoft partner.

    I got an email from him today, and at the moment, he is in Redmond meeting with some Microsoft folks. I'm going to send him a email on this subject and ask him if he can find out anything diffinitive.
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  14. #14
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    Hi Hack

    That would be super wonderful. I look forward to hearing from you. The toolkit I just downloaded and I just tried the first sample, and that failed to run properly. sigh... And looking at the code it wasn't even that straightforward - it's very different from our infrastructure already. Not sure if we are ready to go down that route. I'll do more resrarch and sample search on the net and see what I can find.

    Thanks
    CC

  15. #15
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    I sent him the email shortly after I posted last. When I hear from him, I'll let you know.
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