Is java still relevant


DevX Home    Today's Headlines   Articles Archive   Tip Bank   Forums   

Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Is java still relevant

  1. #1
    jaleel Guest

    Is java still relevant


    I am seriously questionging the relevance of Java and the JVM. This is a very
    serious question. My question is what does java and the jvm give us now that
    c#/.net/clr is out there? One of the beautiful things about java was that
    it gave us the flexiblity of platform independence. One of the bad things
    is that we are relegated to only using java. The CLR gives us the best of
    both worlds. Platform independence(i.e., the mono project and ms port of
    the clr to fbsd) and language independence. What else could we possible ask
    for.

  2. #2
    MarkN Guest

    Re: Is java still relevant


    "jaleel" <jaleel@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >
    >I am seriously questionging the relevance of Java and the JVM. This is a

    very
    >serious question. My question is what does java and the jvm give us now

    that
    >c#/.net/clr is out there? One of the beautiful things about java was that
    >it gave us the flexiblity of platform independence. One of the bad things
    >is that we are relegated to only using java. The CLR gives us the best of
    >both worlds. Platform independence(i.e., the mono project and ms port of
    >the clr to fbsd) and language independence. What else could we possible

    ask
    >for.


    First, Java is not perfect.

    Second, Platform independence for .Net has not yet truly been tested or proven.
    The only .Net platform that actually does anything is MS's. MS is light
    years ahead of Mono. Yet they are way off from making everything .Net.
    It is very unlikely that the majority of MS.Net apps will work with anything
    but MS.Net (Check out their track record). MS has not provided alot of what
    others will need to build their own .Net.

    Third, As for language independence - if you look at the languages they
    really are very similar. What's the point? Most of the languages available
    have alot of baggage. It would be better to learn a new syntax and forget
    old habits than to think the language is the same and continue. For anyone
    to get value out of running the the CLR they will need to rewrite their code.
    Might as well do it with C#. And if you write a program in COBOL.Net will
    it run on Linux - anytime soon?

    Fourth, Have you used a language where you don't know what exceptions will
    be thrown? I have and it is horrible. Makes me look bad. If I try to code
    for the unknown it makes my code and me look bad.

    So what you really end up with is propaganda and vaporware with .Net. If
    .Net actually VIABLY works on Linux(and the Mac and ....) and real 'programs'
    can easily move between platforms and someone besides MS provides CLRs for
    Windows and the other platforms then they might have something. Well, MS
    probably won't have anything - and there is the fly in the ointment. You
    think they will allow that? They can't.

  3. #3
    Tia Guest

    Re: Is java still relevant


    "jaleel" <jaleel@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >
    >I am seriously questionging the relevance of Java and the JVM. This is a

    very
    >serious question. My question is what does java and the jvm give us now

    that
    >c#/.net/clr is out there? One of the beautiful things about java was that
    >it gave us the flexiblity of platform independence. One of the bad things
    >is that we are relegated to only using java. The CLR gives us the best of
    >both worlds. Platform independence(i.e., the mono project and ms port of
    >the clr to fbsd) and language independence. What else could we possible

    ask
    >for.


    Have you gone mad? Don't buy into the MS propoganda...".Net/C# is the future
    of everything and Java is all but dead." This is simply not true and is just
    another media ploy backed by nothing to get you locked in to MS technologies.
    It is meant to keep IT folks from jumping the Windoze ship in the midst of
    enforcing the new software subscription license paradigm and running scared
    because Java became a much more popular language than they ever expected.
    There is nothing they can do that Java can't. So you have to have a JVM to
    run it, big deal. Try getting any MS app to run on Linux, you'll beg for
    something as simple as installing a JVM/JRE. Java is still a very prominent
    enterprise level language and continues to grow. As for similarities between
    C# and Java, well, that was no accident. Bill has made a fortune from stealing
    or mimicking other people's technologies.

  4. #4
    J.M. Nicholls Guest

    Re: Is java still relevant


    "jaleel" <jaleel@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >
    >I am seriously questionging the relevance of Java and the JVM. This is a

    very
    >serious question. My question is what does java and the jvm give us now

    that
    >c#/.net/clr is out there? One of the beautiful things about java was that
    >it gave us the flexiblity of platform independence. One of the bad things
    >is that we are relegated to only using java. The CLR gives us the best of
    >both worlds. Platform independence(i.e., the mono project and ms port of
    >the clr to fbsd) and language independence. What else could we possible

    ask
    >for.


    For one thing C# will be considered a backward step in the progress towards
    stable well-structed Object Oriented programming languages because it retained
    direct memory addressing and pointers. For reasons of stability, better
    memory management, maintainability and security Java dropped the use of direct
    pointer access. The type of object addressing that is allowable in C# shows
    that it really hasn't moved on that much from C++ which was only a partial
    implementation of the Object Oriented model.

    But the issues of the language alone are not the only reason why there is
    a marked resistance to C# both in the corporate world and in the public sector.


    The recent move by Microsoft to patent Open Source technologies that it did
    not create does such as OpenGL does not bode well for the continuation of
    C# as an open standard free of patents and royalties.

    The changes in Microsoft licensing has another reason why C# is being largely
    ignored. Governments around the world to consider the possibilities offered
    by Open Source software as alternative to closed proprietary technologies
    and even though Microsoft have submitted C# to be an ECMA standard that does
    not reassure even the staunchest Microsoft supporters that C# will continue
    to remain an open standard. The "embrace and extend" policy has always been
    applied to create software that is dependent on a Windows environment. There
    are no real indications that this not-so-hidden agenda will be abandoned
    in future.

    Microsoft have also confused their own customers by offering conflicting
    advice regarding their recommendations for .Net development. Companies do
    not know whether to standardise on C# or J# or VB.net or whether to avoid
    using Microsoft proprietary languages at all since Microsoft claim that you
    can develop software for the .Net environment in any language.

    Java is definitely here to stay and, like Linux, is already installed on
    everthing from IBM mainframes down to PDAs and cellphones. The Microsoft
    strategy presentation of the .Net strategy has managed to confuse just about
    everybody. This was the message of Bill Gates himself in a recent interview.


    Perhaps the real question ought to be are Microsoft Windows-dependent technologies
    still relevant?

    In contrast with C#, Java is a proven technology that is growing in acceptance
    worldwide. Few technology experts will make the same prediction for C# which
    may end up as a minority niche market equivalent to that enjoyed by OS/2.


    J.M. Nicholls
    London






  5. #5
    J.M. Nicholls Guest

    Re: Is java still relevant


    "J.M. Nicholls" <java.@127.0.0.1> wrote:
    >
    >"jaleel" <jaleel@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>I am seriously questionging the relevance of Java and the JVM. This is

    a
    >very
    >>serious question. My question is what does java and the jvm give us now

    >that
    >>c#/.net/clr is out there? One of the beautiful things about java was that
    >>it gave us the flexiblity of platform independence. One of the bad things
    >>is that we are relegated to only using java. The CLR gives us the best

    of
    >>both worlds. Platform independence(i.e., the mono project and ms port of
    >>the clr to fbsd) and language independence. What else could we possible

    >ask
    >>for.

    >
    >For one thing C# will be considered a backward step in the progress towards
    >stable well-structed Object Oriented programming languages because it retained
    >direct memory addressing and pointers. For reasons of stability, better
    >memory management, maintainability and security Java dropped the use of

    direct
    >pointer access. The type of object addressing that is allowable in C# shows
    >that it really hasn't moved on that much from C++ which was only a partial
    >implementation of the Object Oriented model.
    >
    >But the issues of the language alone are not the only reason why there is
    >a marked resistance to C# both in the corporate world and in the public

    sector.
    >
    >
    >The recent move by Microsoft to patent Open Source technologies that it

    did
    >not create does such as OpenGL does not bode well for the continuation of
    >C# as an open standard free of patents and royalties.
    >
    >The changes in Microsoft licensing has another reason why C# is being largely
    >ignored. Governments around the world to consider the possibilities offered
    >by Open Source software as alternative to closed proprietary technologies
    >and even though Microsoft have submitted C# to be an ECMA standard that

    does
    >not reassure even the staunchest Microsoft supporters that C# will continue
    >to remain an open standard. The "embrace and extend" policy has always

    been
    >applied to create software that is dependent on a Windows environment.

    There
    >are no real indications that this not-so-hidden agenda will be abandoned
    >in future.
    >
    >Microsoft have also confused their own customers by offering conflicting
    >advice regarding their recommendations for .Net development. Companies

    do
    >not know whether to standardise on C# or J# or VB.net or whether to avoid
    >using Microsoft proprietary languages at all since Microsoft claim that

    you
    >can develop software for the .Net environment in any language.
    >
    >Java is definitely here to stay and, like Linux, is already installed on
    >everthing from IBM mainframes down to PDAs and cellphones. The Microsoft
    >strategy presentation of the .Net strategy has managed to confuse just about
    >everybody. This was the message of Bill Gates himself in a recent interview.
    >
    >
    >Perhaps the real question ought to be are Microsoft Windows-dependent technologies
    >still relevant?
    >
    >In contrast with C#, Java is a proven technology that is growing in acceptance
    >worldwide. Few technology experts will make the same prediction for C#

    which
    >may end up as a minority niche market equivalent to that enjoyed by OS/2.
    >
    >
    >J.M. Nicholls
    >London
    >
    >


    ------------------------------------------------------

    Sorry to comment on my own comment but I thought that readers would like
    to follow the story I referred to in depth:

    It is on the ZDNet site
    ".Net has Microsoft tongue tied" August 8, 2002, 4:20 AM PT
    http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104-948838.html

    Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates has said that building the company's .Net software
    architecture is more difficult than "getting to the moon or designing the
    747."

    But the company's massive initiative apparently faces an even tougher problem
    that has nothing to do with the technology itself: explaining the meaning
    of .Net to consumers, corporate executives and investors.

    ------------------------------------------------------

    Once you work you way through the MS-speak you will probably appreciate some
    of the comments in the TalkBack session where many readers view the prospect
    of MS creating a 747 with abject horror:

    Check out this link:

    ------------------------------------------------------

    http://forums.com.com/group/zd.News....NODEID=&SHOST=

    Re: Top ten reasons why Microsoft should not be allowed to build a 747.

    Name: Patrick Mitchell
    Posted At: 16:48 GMT 08/08/2002

    ------------------------------------------------------

    Some of my colleagues in a major oil company on the South Bank has voted
    this one of the most popular email attachment of the month.

    I won't spoil your surprise ... take a look at it yourself.





  6. #6
    Khaled Guest

    Re: Is java still relevant


    hi all,
    so do u really think .net will not succeed ?
    I really wish it won't succeed. but do u think M$ will invest all that in
    a failure ?

    do u think M$'s control over the software market won't give it the ability
    to kind of "force" ppl. to use their .net ?


    again I wish this whole thing would fail ... Amen !




  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    3
    Thanks,
    Absolutely. Java is everywhere from enterprise servers to phones to Microwaves. The .net stuff is definitely taking market share but Java is still out there, believe that. And their web stuff is evolving quite nicely. Java servlets, and server pages are alive and well, besides the desktop stuff.

    So in short, yes. Still very relevant.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1
    Don't doubt it. Java is very relevant and will probably end up being the most relevant language as the world moves more and more to cloud computing. The network is the computer and Java has a proven track record of making that network sing. Java is everywhere. On the network. On desktop Linux, Windows and Mac. With Android, on the smartphone. And, of course, in embedded technology. It supports a miriad of other languages too.
    Java is being adopted and put into production by some of the biggest businesses on this planet. Ask them if they think it's relevant!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sterling Heights, Michigan
    Posts
    8,666
    In 2002 when this thread was first created the debate regarding Java relevency might have had some merit.

    But, in 2010, I think it is clear beyond a doubt that, as marc_don and Javapoet have pointed out, Java is a very relevent, and in demand, develpment platform.
    I don't answer coding questions via PM or Email. Please post a thread in the appropriate forum section.
    Please use [Code]your code goes in here[/Code] tags when posting code.
    Before posting your question, did you look here?
    Got a question on Linux? Visit our Linux sister site.
    Modifications Required For VB6 Apps To Work On Vista

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
HTML5 Development Center
 
 
FAQ
Latest Articles
Java
.NET
XML
Database
Enterprise
Questions? Contact us.
C++
Web Development
Wireless
Latest Tips
Open Source


   Development Centers

   -- Android Development Center
   -- Cloud Development Project Center
   -- HTML5 Development Center
   -- Windows Mobile Development Center