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Thread: JSP vs ASP vs Cold Fusion ???

  1. #16
    ASP Developer Guest

    Re: JSP vs ASP vs Cold Fusion ???


    I saw your reply on Devx (view below).

    ASP is server-side so no one sees the source code. You can call methods and
    properties in ASP as well through the intrinsic ASP objects as well as components
    written in VB, VC, C, Perl, Java or any other language.

    Your misunderstanding or misrepresentation is unfortunate.




    "Tom Duffy" <td4729@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >Hello Phil:
    >
    >My bank uses JSPs to deliver dynamic content about my checking account.


    >That's all the evidence I need to see to know that JSP is here to stay.
    >
    >The major advantage to JSP vs ASP is that it gives you the ability to call
    >methods in compiled Java code thereby hiding your business rules/logic/intellectual
    >property. ASP code resides in the client document and is readily available
    >through the View Source command. Yes, ASP has been around longer and yes,
    >it is easier to learn from the viewpoint of a Win32 developer (it's really
    >mostly VBScript after all). But are you ready to show everyone your code?
    > I'm not.
    >
    >Tom Duffy
    >
    >"Phil" phil.holbrook wrote:
    >>
    >>Can someone conject as to the viability of Java Server Pages for widespread
    >>web apps development
    >>as opposed to MS' Active Server Pages or Allaire's Cold Fusion 4.0/4.5

    in
    >>the future? Will JSP catch on
    >>or will it be left behind considering the ease-of-use of ASP and Cold Fusion?
    >> It is my understanding
    >>that Java Server Pages are much more powerful and flexible than the other
    >>two technologies but more
    >>difficult to learn. I want to learn and USE Java but I don't wanna' sink
    >>a year of self-study into a
    >>technology that's gonna' fizzle.
    >>
    >>Any ideas?
    >>
    >>
    >>Phil "The Slowly-Reforming MS Developer"
    >>

    >



  2. #17
    ASP Developer Guest

    Re: JSP vs ASP vs Cold Fusion ???


    Cold Fusion is Tagged based. So instead of using a scripting or programming
    language, you use tags (like HTML) to control the program flow in the individual
    pages. Cold Fusion is stated to be 50% faster to develop in compared to ASP.
    But Allaire doesn't have access to Microsoft source code so you will find
    that ASP is optimized to run on the Microsoft Platform over other server
    technologies except ISAPI. Cold Fusion is easy to learn and offers fast development.
    ASP is easy to learn and offer fast development through scripting and more
    power through compiled components.

    "Andi" <annops@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >Hi All,
    >
    >Have anyone have an experience with ColdFusion? I read all your discussion.
    > I just only ASP vs JSP.
    >
    >Thank



  3. #18
    ASP Developer Guest

    Re: JSP vs ASP vs Cold Fusion ???


    J2EE is Sun Microsystems specific it is not vendor neutral because support
    for Java is being pulled off of the Microsoft Platform and since Microsoft
    is a vendor just like Sun Microsystems, then I would say that your statement
    about vendor neutrality is inaccurate. Second, Java is purported to write
    once, run anywhere, but COM also exists on non-Microsoft platforms, so you
    can use ASP on as much servers as Java. Companies like ChiliSoft are enabling
    ASP on other platforms all of the time and they do this through binaries
    and COM (which is dependent on binaries). For those that don't know, COM
    is cross platform (it is all in the binaries).

    "Ross Lambert" <ross@webwolves.com> wrote:
    >
    >> Microsoft has a compelling solution if you
    >> are willing to drink the Microsoft Cool-Aide.
    >> JSP on the other hand has a steeper learning curve but
    >> offers many more deployment options.

    >
    >You are quite correct, but I think _everybody_ is missing the point by just
    >a smidgin: ASP is a Microsoft-specific solution. They're you're only choice
    >for a vendor on Windows. J2EE is vendor neutral. There are already some

    great
    >competing options.
    >
    >Incidentally, I don't really like JSP (or ASP, for that matter). I prefer
    >heavy use of servlets in combination with server-side include statments

    embedded
    >within HTML. I have a clean separation between GUI (HTML) and back-end (servlet)
    >tiers and I don't have to embed JSP stuff in my HTML.
    >
    >== Ross ==
    >
    >Ross Lambert, Senior Programmer/Analyst
    >PUD No. 1 of Douglas County, WA
    >
    >



  4. #19
    ASP Developer Guest

    Re: JSP vs ASP vs Cold Fusion ???


    ASP is not intended to separate logic from presentation in itself, but to
    facilitate that through Components. You logic is written in any programming
    language you want (Java, Basic, C, Perl or whatever) and called from ASP
    which produces HTML. You HTML documents don't have to be littered with ASP
    code but rather place as much of the logic in the compiled dll files and
    only use ASP (VBScript/JavaScript/PerlScript) to send data to these components
    through method calles and the exposure of properties. Depending on how you
    code the components, you end up with very, very little ASP code and much
    more presentation code on the front end. Microsoft describes ASP as a glue.

    JSP is attractive in that it has a program language to make it the "glue"
    or bridge between content and logic as well as being the component. The problem
    you end up with is your designers will have a hard time with presenation
    development and maintenance and they will either have to know Java/JSP or
    you will have to learn design.

    For ultimate speed, functionality and power you really should go with server-side
    technologies developed in C or C++.

    "Sebasten Bouchet" <sebastien.bouchet@lycosmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >You have to analyse whch amount of extra service you need. If you want email
    >capabilities, ldap support, a naming service, platform-independant DB access
    >and growing XML support, then Java (J2EE)is a good think to look at.
    >
    >Then keep in mind that ASP runs best on Microsoft platforms (in spite of
    >Chili software), Java technologies on Unix machines, especially Solaris.
    >
    >But to me, both ASP and JSP (I don't know about CF) fail to separate business
    >logic from presentation by allowing web authors to embed far too much code
    >in their pages.
    >
    >I'm convinced that the only safe way to use JSP is too use them along with
    >servlets. The functional paradigm then becomes :
    >1) Intercept the client request with your servlet, process the data and

    business
    >logic (db access, online pricing ...)
    >2) Forward the results to your JSP which is clearly devoted to presentation
    >and presentation only, with JSP tags containing little code.
    >
    >By doing this your Java code is cleaner and can be as complex as you want
    >it to be (add exception handling to your JSP code and have a look at your
    >document in Dreamweaver ...)
    >
    >Hope this helps understanding what your needs are
    >
    >Sebastien



  5. #20
    mike Guest

    Re: JSP vs ASP vs Cold Fusion ???


    Non Win32 versions of COM cost money and suffer performance problems. I'd
    be interested in hearing specific examples of COM being used by anyone with
    a substantial user count on their web application.

    I believe Microsoft's new cross language runtime (part of COM+)is off target.
    I know Microsoft's answer is to use XML/HTTP (ala SOAP) to provide portable
    data but I'd rather have a cross platform language like Java which I can
    move closer to the data if needed. With Java I get cross platform data and
    programs. With COM I only get the data.

    Regards,

    Mike



  6. #21
    Philippe Blondeaux Guest

    Re: JSP vs ASP vs Cold Fusion ???


    It is true that many asp programmers do all their logic in vbscript in the
    asp because it is fun to do and easy but it is better to do it only for prototyping
    after that , encapsulate your logic in a compiled COM component and call
    it from the asp , this avoids showing your code , works much faster .

    Philippe

    "Tom Duffy" <td4729@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >Hello Phil:
    >
    >My bank uses JSPs to deliver dynamic content about my checking account.


    >That's all the evidence I need to see to know that JSP is here to stay.
    >
    >The major advantage to JSP vs ASP is that it gives you the ability to call
    >methods in compiled Java code thereby hiding your business rules/logic/intellectual
    >property. ASP code resides in the client document and is readily available
    >through the View Source command. Yes, ASP has been around longer and yes,
    >it is easier to learn from the viewpoint of a Win32 developer (it's really
    >mostly VBScript after all). But are you ready to show everyone your code?
    > I'm not.
    >
    >Tom Duffy
    >
    >"Phil" phil.holbrook wrote:
    >>
    >>Can someone conject as to the viability of Java Server Pages for widespread
    >>web apps development
    >>as opposed to MS' Active Server Pages or Allaire's Cold Fusion 4.0/4.5

    in
    >>the future? Will JSP catch on
    >>or will it be left behind considering the ease-of-use of ASP and Cold Fusion?
    >> It is my understanding
    >>that Java Server Pages are much more powerful and flexible than the other
    >>two technologies but more
    >>difficult to learn. I want to learn and USE Java but I don't wanna' sink
    >>a year of self-study into a
    >>technology that's gonna' fizzle.
    >>
    >>Any ideas?
    >>
    >>
    >>Phil "The Slowly-Reforming MS Developer"
    >>

    >



  7. #22
    Michael Tutty Guest

    Re: JSP vs ASP vs Cold Fusion ???


    Tom:
    You obviously don't program in ASP. If you did, you'd realize that the VBScript
    source code executed on the server is NEVER passed to the client. And the
    "compiled code" aspect of your previous note ignores the fact that most serious
    use of ASP involves migrating the code to compile VB DLL's and making very
    simple pass-through calls in the script environment.
    M.

    "Tom Duffy" <td4729@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >Hello Phil:
    >
    >My bank uses JSPs to deliver dynamic content about my checking account.


    >That's all the evidence I need to see to know that JSP is here to stay.
    >
    >The major advantage to JSP vs ASP is that it gives you the ability to call
    >methods in compiled Java code thereby hiding your business rules/logic/intellectual
    >property. ASP code resides in the client document and is readily available
    >through the View Source command. Yes, ASP has been around longer and yes,
    >it is easier to learn from the viewpoint of a Win32 developer (it's really
    >mostly VBScript after all). But are you ready to show everyone your code?
    > I'm not.
    >
    >Tom Duffy
    >
    >"Phil" phil.holbrook wrote:
    >>
    >>Can someone conject as to the viability of Java Server Pages for widespread
    >>web apps development
    >>as opposed to MS' Active Server Pages or Allaire's Cold Fusion 4.0/4.5

    in
    >>the future? Will JSP catch on
    >>or will it be left behind considering the ease-of-use of ASP and Cold Fusion?
    >> It is my understanding
    >>that Java Server Pages are much more powerful and flexible than the other
    >>two technologies but more
    >>difficult to learn. I want to learn and USE Java but I don't wanna' sink
    >>a year of self-study into a
    >>technology that's gonna' fizzle.
    >>
    >>Any ideas?
    >>
    >>
    >>Phil "The Slowly-Reforming MS Developer"
    >>

    >



  8. #23
    Akhilesh Mritunjai Guest

    Re: JSP vs ASP vs Cold Fusion ???


    hey friend...
    i seriously think that u consider ur point once again... jsp is good but
    only in specific ways.

    1) there is a heavy performance cost involved in using jsp! jvm however fast,
    just can't match the speed and versatality of asp on a win2000 machine ie
    IIS 5.0 (even with a lean hardware i use celeron333 with 128mb ram and win2000
    to serve ~2000 comps!!)... and it offers really descent performance... i
    have the ease of naming all the files as asp ie i use a consistent asp template
    for developing pages this drastically reduces the transition and development
    time converting a static page into an asp page later on (u never know when
    u will stumble upon a circumstance when u have to)

    2) jsp is no doubt having an inordinally steep learning curve (i learnt asp
    just by win98 personal web server documentation in 15days!! and started developing
    full-fledged websites with database connectivity and et all) otoh i haven't
    got head and tails of servelet programming as yet after giving a fight for
    1 month, even when i _know_ java pretty well!!

    3) jsp servers ARE RARE species as yet now (hunting for whole good one month)
    i haven't found a descent server that can be obtained as shareware or freeware
    on which i can even BEGIN experimenting!! otoh PWS for win98\95 and IIS 4.0
    for NT and IIS 5.0 (fundoo server) with win2K (a really groundbreaking os)
    comes bundled with their respective OSs and are perfect with asp.

    4) ASP plugins ARE acvailable for other popular web servers also like apache
    and et all that too are free! (and commercial ones won't burn a hole in your
    pocket...)
    5) for ULTIMATE performance when u decide to use C\C++ u will immediatetly
    know what CONSISTENCY means ... it requires importing only ONE dll to have
    aall the look and feel in MSVC++ that too at a superb time efficiency (just
    try to visulize time taken fot development implementing custom libraries
    for connecting to YOUR DATABASE SERVER vis-a-vis using the consistent methods
    to connect to ODBC through virtually ANY database server...)...

    just try to visulize the things and picture will get clearer..
    yours
    Akhilesh Mritunjai

    "Ross Lambert" <ross@webwolves.com> wrote:
    >
    >> Microsoft has a compelling solution if you
    >> are willing to drink the Microsoft Cool-Aide.
    >> JSP on the other hand has a steeper learning curve but
    >> offers many more deployment options.

    >
    >You are quite correct, but I think _everybody_ is missing the point by just
    >a smidgin: ASP is a Microsoft-specific solution. They're you're only choice
    >for a vendor on Windows. J2EE is vendor neutral. There are already some

    great
    >competing options.
    >
    >Incidentally, I don't really like JSP (or ASP, for that matter). I prefer
    >heavy use of servlets in combination with server-side include statments

    embedded
    >within HTML. I have a clean separation between GUI (HTML) and back-end (servlet)
    >tiers and I don't have to embed JSP stuff in my HTML.
    >
    >== Ross ==
    >
    >Ross Lambert, Senior Programmer/Analyst
    >PUD No. 1 of Douglas County, WA
    >
    >



  9. #24
    Mark Weiss Guest

    Re: JSP vs ASP vs Cold Fusion ???


    This is completely untrue. ASP code is parsed, interpreted and executed ON
    THE SERVER. ASP-processing Web servers that receive a request for an *.asp
    page perform all of these steps first, then take the results of the ASP processing
    to assemble the final page, which then and only then is sent to the client.
    If you view source on ANY ASP page you will see only HTML. An ASP page
    with a source file that looks like this:
    <HTML>
    <HEAD></HEAD>
    <BODY>
    <% Response.Write "Hello, World" %>
    </BODY>
    </HTML>

    will look like this when the client views source:
    <HTML>
    <HEAD></HEAD>
    <BODY>
    Hello, World
    </BODY>
    </HTML>

    Try not to post to the board unless you are sure you know what you are talking
    about ... "ASP code resides in the client document" is a fundamentally false
    statement. It is true that JSP servers compile the embedded code they contain
    -- after the first time the page is loaded. And it is true that this is
    an advantage -- because compiled bytecode will execute much faster than interpreted
    ASP code. But in both cases, the code is being executed on the server.


    "Tom Duffy" <td4729@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >Hello Phil:
    >
    >My bank uses JSPs to deliver dynamic content about my checking account.


    >That's all the evidence I need to see to know that JSP is here to stay.
    >
    >The major advantage to JSP vs ASP is that it gives you the ability to call
    >methods in compiled Java code thereby hiding your business rules/logic/intellectual
    >property. ASP code resides in the client document and is readily available
    >through the View Source command. Yes, ASP has been around longer and yes,
    >it is easier to learn from the viewpoint of a Win32 developer (it's really
    >mostly VBScript after all). But are you ready to show everyone your code?
    > I'm not.
    >
    >Tom Duffy
    >
    >"Phil" phil.holbrook wrote:
    >>
    >>Can someone conject as to the viability of Java Server Pages for widespread
    >>web apps development
    >>as opposed to MS' Active Server Pages or Allaire's Cold Fusion 4.0/4.5

    in
    >>the future? Will JSP catch on
    >>or will it be left behind considering the ease-of-use of ASP and Cold Fusion?
    >> It is my understanding
    >>that Java Server Pages are much more powerful and flexible than the other
    >>two technologies but more
    >>difficult to learn. I want to learn and USE Java but I don't wanna' sink
    >>a year of self-study into a
    >>technology that's gonna' fizzle.
    >>
    >>Any ideas?
    >>
    >>
    >>Phil "The Slowly-Reforming MS Developer"
    >>

    >



  10. #25
    Tom Duffy Guest

    Re: JSP vs ASP vs Cold Fusion ???


    Hello Mark:

    So what happens when someone uses FTP to download your page? So much for
    server processing then - huh? The logic is in the page like it or not.
    Gee, sorry if it wasn't the View Source command - a simple mistake. Feel
    free to correct a mistake but save your lecture.

    Tom Duffy

    "Mark Weiss" <marksweiss@aol.com> wrote:
    >
    >This is completely untrue. ASP code is parsed, interpreted and executed

    ON
    >THE SERVER. ASP-processing Web servers that receive a request for an *.asp
    >page perform all of these steps first, then take the results of the ASP

    processing
    >to assemble the final page, which then and only then is sent to the client.
    > If you view source on ANY ASP page you will see only HTML. An ASP page
    >with a source file that looks like this:
    ><HTML>
    ><HEAD></HEAD>
    ><BODY>
    ><% Response.Write "Hello, World" %>
    ></BODY>
    ></HTML>
    >
    >will look like this when the client views source:
    ><HTML>
    ><HEAD></HEAD>
    ><BODY>
    >Hello, World
    ></BODY>
    ></HTML>
    >
    >Try not to post to the board unless you are sure you know what you are talking
    >about ... "ASP code resides in the client document" is a fundamentally false
    >statement. It is true that JSP servers compile the embedded code they contain
    >-- after the first time the page is loaded. And it is true that this is
    >an advantage -- because compiled bytecode will execute much faster than

    interpreted
    >ASP code. But in both cases, the code is being executed on the server.
    >
    >
    >"Tom Duffy" <td4729@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>Hello Phil:
    >>
    >>My bank uses JSPs to deliver dynamic content about my checking account.

    >
    >>That's all the evidence I need to see to know that JSP is here to stay.
    >>
    >>The major advantage to JSP vs ASP is that it gives you the ability to call
    >>methods in compiled Java code thereby hiding your business rules/logic/intellectual
    >>property. ASP code resides in the client document and is readily available
    >>through the View Source command. Yes, ASP has been around longer and yes,
    >>it is easier to learn from the viewpoint of a Win32 developer (it's really
    >>mostly VBScript after all). But are you ready to show everyone your code?
    >> I'm not.
    >>
    >>Tom Duffy
    >>
    >>"Phil" phil.holbrook wrote:
    >>>
    >>>Can someone conject as to the viability of Java Server Pages for widespread
    >>>web apps development
    >>>as opposed to MS' Active Server Pages or Allaire's Cold Fusion 4.0/4.5

    >in
    >>>the future? Will JSP catch on
    >>>or will it be left behind considering the ease-of-use of ASP and Cold

    Fusion?
    >>> It is my understanding
    >>>that Java Server Pages are much more powerful and flexible than the other
    >>>two technologies but more
    >>>difficult to learn. I want to learn and USE Java but I don't wanna' sink
    >>>a year of self-study into a
    >>>technology that's gonna' fizzle.
    >>>
    >>>Any ideas?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>Phil "The Slowly-Reforming MS Developer"
    >>>

    >>

    >



  11. #26
    Dickie Aurora daurora Guest

    Re: JSP vs ASP vs Cold Fusion ???


    "Tom Duffy" <td4729@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >Hello Phil:
    >
    >My bank uses JSPs to deliver dynamic content about my checking account.


    >That's all the evidence I need to see to know that JSP is here to stay.
    >
    >The major advantage to JSP vs ASP is that it gives you the ability to call
    >methods in compiled Java code thereby hiding your business rules/logic/intellectual
    >property. ASP code resides in the client document and is readily available
    >through the View Source command. Yes, ASP has been around longer and yes,
    >it is easier to learn from the viewpoint of a Win32 developer (it's really
    >mostly VBScript after all). But are you ready to show everyone your code?
    > I'm not.
    >
    >Tom Duffy
    >
    >"Phil" phil.holbrook wrote:
    >>
    >>Can someone conject as to the viability of Java Server Pages for widespread
    >>web apps development
    >>as opposed to MS' Active Server Pages or Allaire's Cold Fusion 4.0/4.5

    in
    >>the future? Will JSP catch on
    >>or will it be left behind considering the ease-of-use of ASP and Cold Fusion?
    >> It is my understanding
    >>that Java Server Pages are much more powerful and flexible than the other
    >>two technologies but more
    >>difficult to learn. I want to learn and USE Java but I don't wanna' sink
    >>a year of self-study into a
    >>technology that's gonna' fizzle.
    >>
    >>Any ideas?
    >>
    >>
    >>Phil "The Slowly-Reforming MS Developer"
    >>

    >



  12. #27
    Dickie Aurora Guest

    Re: JSP vs ASP vs Cold Fusion ???


    "Tom Duffy" <td4729@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >Hello Phil:
    >
    >My bank uses JSPs to deliver dynamic content about my checking account.


    >That's all the evidence I need to see to know that JSP is here to stay.
    >
    >The major advantage to JSP vs ASP is that it gives you the ability to call
    >methods in compiled Java code thereby hiding your business rules/logic/intellectual
    >property. ASP code resides in the client document and is readily available
    >through the View Source command. Yes, ASP has been around longer and yes,
    >it is easier to learn from the viewpoint of a Win32 developer (it's really
    >mostly VBScript after all). But are you ready to show everyone your code?
    > I'm not.
    >
    >Tom Duffy
    >
    >"Phil" phil.holbrook wrote:
    >>
    >>Can someone conject as to the viability of Java Server Pages for widespread
    >>web apps development
    >>as opposed to MS' Active Server Pages or Allaire's Cold Fusion 4.0/4.5

    in
    >>the future? Will JSP catch on
    >>or will it be left behind considering the ease-of-use of ASP and Cold Fusion?
    >> It is my understanding
    >>that Java Server Pages are much more powerful and flexible than the other
    >>two technologies but more
    >>difficult to learn. I want to learn and USE Java but I don't wanna' sink
    >>a year of self-study into a
    >>technology that's gonna' fizzle.
    >>
    >>Any ideas?
    >>
    >>
    >>Phil "The Slowly-Reforming MS Developer"
    >>

    >


    Hi Tom!

    There seems to be some confusion regarding ASP residing on "client" and being
    seen from "view source" of the browser. This is not true. ASP is a server
    side scripting and generates pure HTML. The same applies to JSP and servlets.


    Dickie


  13. #28
    subra Guest

    Re: JSP vs ASP vs Cold Fusion ???


    All that features of JSP are fine. But the fuzzy thing with JSP
    is its case-sensitiveness. I run my jsp pages with the help
    of beasystems weblogic server which has a in-built JSP-compiler.
    When i gave the extension of one jsp file in all caps - in MSIE 4.0 browser,
    named logon.JSP immediately the file-download dialog was shown and in no
    time the entire jsp code is downloaded in the client.

    This is really funny.

    Subra


    "John Timney (MVP)" <timneyj@btinternet.com> wrote:
    >I'm afraid your a little incorrect Tom, ASP can easily call methods in
    >compiled Java code and has the added advantage of COM+, its also totally
    >platform independent if you run it over products like Chillisofts asp
    >engine.
    >
    >ASP code is strictly server side, the only think you will see is the same
    >output you would see in a JSP page or servlet output. ASP would typically
    >be developed in vbscript, jscript or javascript so it doesn't only relate

    to
    >win32 developers.
    >
    >I do agree with you that its here to stay, but like Java it still needs

    to
    >mature a bit before it makes a more significant impact on the market.
    >
    >Regards
    >
    >John Timney (MVP)
    >
    >
    >> My bank uses JSPs to deliver dynamic content about my checking account.
    >> That's all the evidence I need to see to know that JSP is here to stay.
    >>
    >> The major advantage to JSP vs ASP is that it gives you the ability to

    call
    >> methods in compiled Java code thereby hiding your business

    >rules/logic/intellectual
    >> property. ASP code resides in the client document and is readily

    >available
    >> through the View Source command. Yes, ASP has been around longer and

    yes,
    >> it is easier to learn from the viewpoint of a Win32 developer (it's really
    >> mostly VBScript after all). But are you ready to show everyone your code?
    >> I'm not.
    >>
    >> Tom Duffy

    >
    >
    >



  14. #29
    Arto Santala Guest

    Re: JSP vs ASP vs Cold Fusion ???


    To me that looks like case of faulty mime-mapping in webserver. I'd guess
    that .jsp is mapped correctly but .JSP is not, and therefore it passes the
    file straight through.

    "subra" <rsm_73@usa.net> wrote:
    >
    >All that features of JSP are fine. But the fuzzy thing with JSP
    >is its case-sensitiveness. I run my jsp pages with the help
    >of beasystems weblogic server which has a in-built JSP-compiler.
    >When i gave the extension of one jsp file in all caps - in MSIE 4.0 browser,
    >named logon.JSP immediately the file-download dialog was shown and in no
    >time the entire jsp code is downloaded in the client.
    >
    >This is really funny.
    >
    >Subra
    >
    >
    >"John Timney (MVP)" <timneyj@btinternet.com> wrote:
    >>I'm afraid your a little incorrect Tom, ASP can easily call methods in
    >>compiled Java code and has the added advantage of COM+, its also totally
    >>platform independent if you run it over products like Chillisofts asp
    >>engine.
    >>
    >>ASP code is strictly server side, the only think you will see is the same
    >>output you would see in a JSP page or servlet output. ASP would typically
    >>be developed in vbscript, jscript or javascript so it doesn't only relate

    >to
    >>win32 developers.
    >>
    >>I do agree with you that its here to stay, but like Java it still needs

    >to
    >>mature a bit before it makes a more significant impact on the market.
    >>
    >>Regards
    >>
    >>John Timney (MVP)
    >>
    >>
    >>> My bank uses JSPs to deliver dynamic content about my checking account.
    >>> That's all the evidence I need to see to know that JSP is here to stay.
    >>>
    >>> The major advantage to JSP vs ASP is that it gives you the ability to

    >call
    >>> methods in compiled Java code thereby hiding your business

    >>rules/logic/intellectual
    >>> property. ASP code resides in the client document and is readily

    >>available
    >>> through the View Source command. Yes, ASP has been around longer and

    >yes,
    >>> it is easier to learn from the viewpoint of a Win32 developer (it's really
    >>> mostly VBScript after all). But are you ready to show everyone your

    code?
    >>> I'm not.
    >>>
    >>> Tom Duffy

    >>
    >>
    >>

    >



  15. #30
    Arto Santala Guest

    Re: JSP vs ASP vs Cold Fusion ???


    True, if you set an ftp-server on your webserver to deliver the documents,
    yes, asp-files can be loaded to client computers. Exactly like they would
    if you copied your files on floppies and put a huge box of them on the street.

    However, ftp doesn't see the webdirs by default, and most webservers don't
    have ftp service at all because 1) it's not usually needed 2) it's a possible
    security hole 3) If they have ftp, it's on other server alltogether.

    So no, you normally can't load asp via ftp. And not via show source. ASP
    used to have a security hole that allowed downloading of sourcecodes via
    certain browser, but I hear it doesn't exist anymore.


    "Tom Duffy" <td4729@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >Hello Mark:
    >
    >So what happens when someone uses FTP to download your page? So much for
    >server processing then - huh? The logic is in the page like it or not.


    >Gee, sorry if it wasn't the View Source command - a simple mistake. Feel
    >free to correct a mistake but save your lecture.
    >
    >Tom Duffy
    >
    >"Mark Weiss" <marksweiss@aol.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>This is completely untrue. ASP code is parsed, interpreted and executed

    >ON
    >>THE SERVER. ASP-processing Web servers that receive a request for an *.asp
    >>page perform all of these steps first, then take the results of the ASP

    >processing
    >>to assemble the final page, which then and only then is sent to the client.
    >> If you view source on ANY ASP page you will see only HTML. An ASP page
    >>with a source file that looks like this:
    >><HTML>
    >><HEAD></HEAD>
    >><BODY>
    >><% Response.Write "Hello, World" %>
    >></BODY>
    >></HTML>
    >>
    >>will look like this when the client views source:
    >><HTML>
    >><HEAD></HEAD>
    >><BODY>
    >>Hello, World
    >></BODY>
    >></HTML>
    >>
    >>Try not to post to the board unless you are sure you know what you are

    talking
    >>about ... "ASP code resides in the client document" is a fundamentally

    false
    >>statement. It is true that JSP servers compile the embedded code they

    contain
    >>-- after the first time the page is loaded. And it is true that this is
    >>an advantage -- because compiled bytecode will execute much faster than

    >interpreted
    >>ASP code. But in both cases, the code is being executed on the server.
    >>
    >>
    >>"Tom Duffy" <td4729@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>Hello Phil:
    >>>
    >>>My bank uses JSPs to deliver dynamic content about my checking account.

    >>
    >>>That's all the evidence I need to see to know that JSP is here to stay.
    >>>
    >>>The major advantage to JSP vs ASP is that it gives you the ability to

    call
    >>>methods in compiled Java code thereby hiding your business rules/logic/intellectual
    >>>property. ASP code resides in the client document and is readily available
    >>>through the View Source command. Yes, ASP has been around longer and

    yes,
    >>>it is easier to learn from the viewpoint of a Win32 developer (it's really
    >>>mostly VBScript after all). But are you ready to show everyone your code?
    >>> I'm not.
    >>>
    >>>Tom Duffy
    >>>
    >>>"Phil" phil.holbrook wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>Can someone conject as to the viability of Java Server Pages for widespread
    >>>>web apps development
    >>>>as opposed to MS' Active Server Pages or Allaire's Cold Fusion 4.0/4.5

    >>in
    >>>>the future? Will JSP catch on
    >>>>or will it be left behind considering the ease-of-use of ASP and Cold

    >Fusion?
    >>>> It is my understanding
    >>>>that Java Server Pages are much more powerful and flexible than the other
    >>>>two technologies but more
    >>>>difficult to learn. I want to learn and USE Java but I don't wanna'

    sink
    >>>>a year of self-study into a
    >>>>technology that's gonna' fizzle.
    >>>>
    >>>>Any ideas?
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>Phil "The Slowly-Reforming MS Developer"
    >>>>
    >>>

    >>

    >



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