ASP vs JSP, Servlets vs WebClass


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Thread: ASP vs JSP, Servlets vs WebClass

  1. #1
    Ewan Makepeace Guest

    ASP vs JSP, Servlets vs WebClass


    I am only a couple of months into Java so I hope I dont tread on any toes
    here!
    The problem as I see it is this: both ASP and JSP embed code in your HTML,
    which makes it problematic to use tools such as Frontpage et al to redesign
    the content or manage the site - managing large ASP/JSP sites becomes a real
    headache.
    Using Servlets or WebClasses to generate HTML from code is even uglier -
    anyone trying to generate more than simple HTML from println statements is
    going to lose a lot of hair.
    I thought MS had come out with the perfect compromise in VB6/WebClasses with
    their template system. Basically an HTML template was parsed by the WebClass
    and matching tags were replaced by custom data/HTML or whatever and the result
    sent to the browser. That way HTML stays (mostly) in the template, and code
    stays in the application. Sadly I have yet to see this feature in the Java
    world, so I have written my own parser servlets and am very happy with the
    result. I can write my pages in Frontpage (or other HTML editor) putting
    custom tags where I want my data to appear, then when the page is requested
    the servlet scans it and substitutes the data, typically with fields from
    persistent objects retrieved from a database.
    Am I reinventing the wheel here? Has this already been done (probably better
    too!) Anyone interested in this approach?

    Rgds
    Ewan

  2. #2
    Paul Clapham Guest

    Re: ASP vs JSP, Servlets vs WebClass

    Reinventing the wheel? Isn't that our way of life? But anyway, you may be
    interested in an article entitled "Servlet Programming for Teams - How Java
    programmers and HTML designers can collaborate using XML". It was at
    http://developer.netscape.com/viewso...archal_xml.htm last October. It
    starts out "This article presents a technique I developed for cleanly
    separating the presentation aspect from the application logic in Java
    servlets, to match the organization of most web site development teams into
    HTML designers and Java developers." If you can't find it and want to see
    it, contact me and I'll get a paper copy to you somehow.

    Ewan Makepeace <ewan@ibm.net> wrote in message
    news:38e1a726$1@news.devx.com...
    >
    > I am only a couple of months into Java so I hope I dont tread on any toes
    > here!
    > The problem as I see it is this: both ASP and JSP embed code in your HTML,
    > which makes it problematic to use tools such as Frontpage et al to

    redesign
    > the content or manage the site - managing large ASP/JSP sites becomes a

    real
    > headache.
    > Using Servlets or WebClasses to generate HTML from code is even uglier -
    > anyone trying to generate more than simple HTML from println statements is
    > going to lose a lot of hair.
    > I thought MS had come out with the perfect compromise in VB6/WebClasses

    with
    > their template system. Basically an HTML template was parsed by the

    WebClass
    > and matching tags were replaced by custom data/HTML or whatever and the

    result
    > sent to the browser. That way HTML stays (mostly) in the template, and

    code
    > stays in the application. Sadly I have yet to see this feature in the Java
    > world, so I have written my own parser servlets and am very happy with the
    > result. I can write my pages in Frontpage (or other HTML editor) putting
    > custom tags where I want my data to appear, then when the page is

    requested
    > the servlet scans it and substitutes the data, typically with fields from
    > persistent objects retrieved from a database.
    > Am I reinventing the wheel here? Has this already been done (probably

    better
    > too!) Anyone interested in this approach?
    >
    > Rgds
    > Ewan




  3. #3
    Strider Guest

    Re: ASP vs JSP, Servlets vs WebClass

    read this

    http://www.devx.com/upload/free/feat...jt0004/jt0004.
    asp

    jc
    Ewan Makepeace <ewan@ibm.net> wrote in message
    news:38e1a726$1@news.devx.com...
    >
    > I am only a couple of months into Java so I hope I dont tread on any toes
    > here!
    > The problem as I see it is this: both ASP and JSP embed code in your HTML,
    > which makes it problematic to use tools such as Frontpage et al to

    redesign
    > the content or manage the site - managing large ASP/JSP sites becomes a

    real
    > headache.
    > Using Servlets or WebClasses to generate HTML from code is even uglier -
    > anyone trying to generate more than simple HTML from println statements is
    > going to lose a lot of hair.
    > I thought MS had come out with the perfect compromise in VB6/WebClasses

    with
    > their template system. Basically an HTML template was parsed by the

    WebClass
    > and matching tags were replaced by custom data/HTML or whatever and the

    result
    > sent to the browser. That way HTML stays (mostly) in the template, and

    code
    > stays in the application. Sadly I have yet to see this feature in the Java
    > world, so I have written my own parser servlets and am very happy with the
    > result. I can write my pages in Frontpage (or other HTML editor) putting
    > custom tags where I want my data to appear, then when the page is

    requested
    > the servlet scans it and substitutes the data, typically with fields from
    > persistent objects retrieved from a database.
    > Am I reinventing the wheel here? Has this already been done (probably

    better
    > too!) Anyone interested in this approach?
    >
    > Rgds
    > Ewan




  4. #4
    Mark Guest

    Re: ASP vs JSP, Servlets vs WebClass


    "Ewan Makepeace" <ewan@ibm.net> wrote:
    >
    >I am only a couple of months into Java so I hope I dont tread on any toes
    >here!
    >The problem as I see it is this: both ASP and JSP embed code in your HTML,
    >which makes it problematic to use tools such as Frontpage et al to redesign
    >the content or manage the site - managing large ASP/JSP sites becomes a

    real
    >headache.
    >Using Servlets or WebClasses to generate HTML from code is even uglier -
    >anyone trying to generate more than simple HTML from println statements

    is
    >going to lose a lot of hair.
    >I thought MS had come out with the perfect compromise in VB6/WebClasses

    with
    >their template system. Basically an HTML template was parsed by the WebClass
    >and matching tags were replaced by custom data/HTML or whatever and the

    result
    >sent to the browser. That way HTML stays (mostly) in the template, and code
    >stays in the application. Sadly I have yet to see this feature in the Java
    >world, so I have written my own parser servlets and am very happy with the
    >result. I can write my pages in Frontpage (or other HTML editor) putting
    >custom tags where I want my data to appear, then when the page is requested
    >the servlet scans it and substitutes the data, typically with fields from
    >persistent objects retrieved from a database.
    >Am I reinventing the wheel here? Has this already been done (probably better
    >too!) Anyone interested in this approach?
    >
    >Rgds
    >Ewan


    Ewan,
    We've come up with the same concept. It is very much like the examples
    of using macro code (JPython, etc.) instead of Java in the JSP's.

    Have a look at http://www.servlets.com/soapbox/problems-jsp.html.

    I didn't think having marco code in JSP's was much different than Java -
    it is still code.

    Mark


  5. #5
    Mark Halloran Guest

    Re: ASP vs JSP, Servlets vs WebClass


    Ewan--

    Have a look at Enhydra Application Server. Same ideas (?) as your parser
    servlets in open source Java.

    http://www.enhydra.org/

    -----------
    Mark
    markh@iwidgets.com


    "Mark" <mknuttall@sprynet.com> wrote:
    >
    >"Ewan Makepeace" <ewan@ibm.net> wrote:
    >>
    >>I am only a couple of months into Java so I hope I dont tread on any toes
    >>here!
    >>The problem as I see it is this: both ASP and JSP embed code in your HTML,
    >>which makes it problematic to use tools such as Frontpage et al to redesign
    >>the content or manage the site - managing large ASP/JSP sites becomes a

    >real
    >>headache.
    >>Using Servlets or WebClasses to generate HTML from code is even uglier

    -
    >>anyone trying to generate more than simple HTML from println statements

    >is
    >>going to lose a lot of hair.
    >>I thought MS had come out with the perfect compromise in VB6/WebClasses

    >with
    >>their template system. Basically an HTML template was parsed by the WebClass
    >>and matching tags were replaced by custom data/HTML or whatever and the

    >result
    >>sent to the browser. That way HTML stays (mostly) in the template, and

    code
    >>stays in the application. Sadly I have yet to see this feature in the Java
    >>world, so I have written my own parser servlets and am very happy with

    the
    >>result. I can write my pages in Frontpage (or other HTML editor) putting
    >>custom tags where I want my data to appear, then when the page is requested
    >>the servlet scans it and substitutes the data, typically with fields from
    >>persistent objects retrieved from a database.
    >>Am I reinventing the wheel here? Has this already been done (probably better
    >>too!) Anyone interested in this approach?
    >>
    >>Rgds
    >>Ewan

    >
    >Ewan,
    > We've come up with the same concept. It is very much like the examples
    >of using macro code (JPython, etc.) instead of Java in the JSP's.
    >
    >Have a look at http://www.servlets.com/soapbox/problems-jsp.html.
    >
    >I didn't think having marco code in JSP's was much different than Java -
    >it is still code.
    >
    >Mark
    >



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