Poll: What are the best protocols to use with XML?

[Randy Charles Morin]

Yes, plain ASP works very well with XML.
--
Randy Charles Morin
http://www.kbcafe.com

Feel free to contact me by private email or messenger
randy@kbcafe.com
morin_randy@hotmail.com

"Bruce C" <pobox@brucemusic.com> wrote in message news:3cea8dbd$1@10.1.10.29...
>
> I am just starting to use XML and I see everywhere that XML is great for databases,
> but it just seems that all the protocols and new technologies coming out
> are just too much to learn in a lifetime. I have a feeling that people who
> call themselves web designers just because they read the FrontPage or DreamWeaver
> manuals cover to cover are going to need people like us here to do the XML
> and database work and I see that these people are just happy making simple
> static web pages. They will need us to design the good stuff.
>
> So, besides using all these newer protocols and systems such as SAX,SOAP,.NET,
> etc, and since it seems that everything is almost object oriented these days,
> I am so overwhelmed. I want to know if plain ASP works well with XML. I code
> heavily in VBScript these days via ASP and before I add XML to my programming
> arsenal for good, I want to know what else is worth learning besides XML
> that will not take all that long.
>
> My current ASP and XML programming styles include reading XML tags through
> LEFT, RIGHT, and MID VB functions as well as using the DOM functions, methods
> and properties. I know DOM is the most powerful technology that I personally
> use, but is SAX and SOAP worth it? What else am I missing from here?

[Bruce C]

I am just starting to use XML and I see everywhere that XML is great for databases,
but it just seems that all the protocols and new technologies coming out
are just too much to learn in a lifetime. I have a feeling that people who
call themselves web designers just because they read the FrontPage or DreamWeaver
manuals cover to cover are going to need people like us here to do the XML
and database work and I see that these people are just happy making simple
static web pages. They will need us to design the good stuff.

So, besides using all these newer protocols and systems such as SAX,SOAP,.NET,
etc, and since it seems that everything is almost object oriented these days,
I am so overwhelmed. I want to know if plain ASP works well with XML. I code
heavily in VBScript these days via ASP and before I add XML to my programming
arsenal for good, I want to know what else is worth learning besides XML
that will not take all that long.

My current ASP and XML programming styles include reading XML tags through
LEFT, RIGHT, and MID VB functions as well as using the DOM functions, methods
and properties. I know DOM is the most powerful technology that I personally
use, but is SAX and SOAP worth it? What else am I missing from here?

[XMLExpert Joe]

Just getting good at using DOM techniques works really well. The other stuff
will be short lived, but ASP and DOM are here to stay.

"Randy Charles Morin" <rmorin@kbcafe.com> wrote:
>Yes, plain ASP works very well with XML.
>--
>Randy Charles Morin
>http://www.kbcafe.com
>
>Feel free to contact me by private email or messenger
>randy@kbcafe.com
>morin_randy@hotmail.com
>
>"Bruce C" <pobox@brucemusic.com> wrote in message news:3cea8dbd$1@10.1.10.29...
>>
>> I am just starting to use XML and I see everywhere that XML is great for
databases,
>> but it just seems that all the protocols and new technologies coming out
>> are just too much to learn in a lifetime. I have a feeling that people
who
>> call themselves web designers just because they read the FrontPage or
DreamWeaver
>> manuals cover to cover are going to need people like us here to do the
XML
>> and database work and I see that these people are just happy making simple
>> static web pages. They will need us to design the good stuff.
>>
>> So, besides using all these newer protocols and systems such as SAX,SOAP,.NET,
>> etc, and since it seems that everything is almost object oriented these
days,
>> I am so overwhelmed. I want to know if plain ASP works well with XML.
I code
>> heavily in VBScript these days via ASP and before I add XML to my programming
>> arsenal for good, I want to know what else is worth learning besides XML
>> that will not take all that long.
>>
>> My current ASP and XML programming styles include reading XML tags through
>> LEFT, RIGHT, and MID VB functions as well as using the DOM functions,
methods
>> and properties. I know DOM is the most powerful technology that I personally
>> use, but is SAX and SOAP worth it? What else am I missing from here?
>
>

[Fredrik]

Well, SOAP is realy a standard for transfering XML in real time.

SAX is a better way of parsing large XML files. I parse up to 10 MB of XML
files with DOM and th memory consumptions is about 70 - 90 MB. Ofcourse this
is a very large application in a powerful server, but anyway 100 MB means
then 700 - 900 MB!!! I did get error when reaching over 100 MB. The DOM
model seams easily corrupted when reaching large amount of data.

I am not VB programmer but work in C++ and Java. In my world XML is an
integration tool not a publishing tool. Different techniques have to be used
in different ways, and has different meaning. In my world SAX is more useful
than DOM. XSLT more interesting than any graphical style sheets. Learn what
you have to learn to do what you do.

"Bruce C" <pobox@brucemusic.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:3cea8dbd$1@10.1.10.29...
>
> I am just starting to use XML and I see everywhere that XML is great for
databases,
> but it just seems that all the protocols and new technologies coming out
> are just too much to learn in a lifetime. I have a feeling that people who
> call themselves web designers just because they read the FrontPage or
DreamWeaver
> manuals cover to cover are going to need people like us here to do the XML
> and database work and I see that these people are just happy making simple
> static web pages. They will need us to design the good stuff.
>
> So, besides using all these newer protocols and systems such as
SAX,SOAP,.NET,
> etc, and since it seems that everything is almost object oriented these
days,
> I am so overwhelmed. I want to know if plain ASP works well with XML. I
code
> heavily in VBScript these days via ASP and before I add XML to my
programming
> arsenal for good, I want to know what else is worth learning besides XML
> that will not take all that long.
>
> My current ASP and XML programming styles include reading XML tags through
> LEFT, RIGHT, and MID VB functions as well as using the DOM functions,
methods
> and properties. I know DOM is the most powerful technology that I
personally
> use, but is SAX and SOAP worth it? What else am I missing from here?

[MarkN]

XML by itself is very easy. If you understand HTML you will get XML.

What you do with it is the more complicated part. Some of it is 'proprietary'
or doesn't work well with other things.

Depending on what you are doing will determine the tool and techinique you
should use.

I too use XML for an integeration tool. I think more of it as a serialized
object and less as XML data. I've used XML with XSL for a few things but
- yuck.

Any of these are tedious if you try to deal with XML on a low level.

As for large XML documents - if you have these look for a better way to do
what you doing. Like smaller units of work.

Depending on what you mean, XML may or may not be great for databases. XML
is not that great as a database. Now something like XQuery is good. I can
treat all my persistant stores/datastores as one type and return XML which
(for the most part) neutral. From there I can easily de-serialize it to
an object or combine/transform it via XSL/XSLT/etc.



"Fredrik" <fredrik@cimade.com> wrote:
>Well, SOAP is realy a standard for transfering XML in real time.
>
>SAX is a better way of parsing large XML files. I parse up to 10 MB of XML
>files with DOM and th memory consumptions is about 70 - 90 MB. Ofcourse
this
>is a very large application in a powerful server, but anyway 100 MB means
>then 700 - 900 MB!!! I did get error when reaching over 100 MB. The DOM
>model seams easily corrupted when reaching large amount of data.
>
>I am not VB programmer but work in C++ and Java. In my world XML is an
>integration tool not a publishing tool. Different techniques have to be
used
>in different ways, and has different meaning. In my world SAX is more useful
>than DOM. XSLT more interesting than any graphical style sheets. Learn what
>you have to learn to do what you do.
>
>"Bruce C" <pobox@brucemusic.com> escribió en el mensaje
>news:3cea8dbd$1@10.1.10.29...
>>
>> I am just starting to use XML and I see everywhere that XML is great for
>databases,
>> but it just seems that all the protocols and new technologies coming out
>> are just too much to learn in a lifetime. I have a feeling that people
who
>> call themselves web designers just because they read the FrontPage or
>DreamWeaver
>> manuals cover to cover are going to need people like us here to do the
XML
>> and database work and I see that these people are just happy making simple
>> static web pages. They will need us to design the good stuff.
>>
>> So, besides using all these newer protocols and systems such as
>SAX,SOAP,.NET,
>> etc, and since it seems that everything is almost object oriented these
>days,
>> I am so overwhelmed. I want to know if plain ASP works well with XML.
I
>code
>> heavily in VBScript these days via ASP and before I add XML to my
>programming
>> arsenal for good, I want to know what else is worth learning besides XML
>> that will not take all that long.
>>
>> My current ASP and XML programming styles include reading XML tags through
>> LEFT, RIGHT, and MID VB functions as well as using the DOM functions,
>methods
>> and properties. I know DOM is the most powerful technology that I
>personally
>> use, but is SAX and SOAP worth it? What else am I missing from here?
>
>

[Fredrik]

The Problem with DOM is that it comsumes too much memory. I think SAX will
be the way to do things. DOM only is valid for small applications. Yes, many
parsers can be optimized further. The worst example is probably Explorer
where the parsed xml file ocupies 15 - 17 more memory than the xml file
do!!!
Still DOM will always be a very very large tree structure, SAX will always
be more eficient and with the trend towards shorter read time from/to disks
I am sure it will replace DOM.


"XMLExpert Joe" <xmljoe@hotmail.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:3ceaa385$1@10.1.10.29...
>
> Just getting good at using DOM techniques works really well. The other
stuff
> will be short lived, but ASP and DOM are here to stay.
>
> "Randy Charles Morin" <rmorin@kbcafe.com> wrote:
> >Yes, plain ASP works very well with XML.
> >--
> >Randy Charles Morin
> >http://www.kbcafe.com
> >
> >Feel free to contact me by private email or messenger
> >randy@kbcafe.com
> >morin_randy@hotmail.com
> >
> >"Bruce C" <pobox@brucemusic.com> wrote in message
news:3cea8dbd$1@10.1.10.29...
> >>
> >> I am just starting to use XML and I see everywhere that XML is great
for
> databases,
> >> but it just seems that all the protocols and new technologies coming
out
> >> are just too much to learn in a lifetime. I have a feeling that people
> who
> >> call themselves web designers just because they read the FrontPage or
> DreamWeaver
> >> manuals cover to cover are going to need people like us here to do the
> XML
> >> and database work and I see that these people are just happy making
simple
> >> static web pages. They will need us to design the good stuff.
> >>
> >> So, besides using all these newer protocols and systems such as
SAX,SOAP,.NET,
> >> etc, and since it seems that everything is almost object oriented these
> days,
> >> I am so overwhelmed. I want to know if plain ASP works well with XML.
> I code
> >> heavily in VBScript these days via ASP and before I add XML to my
programming
> >> arsenal for good, I want to know what else is worth learning besides
XML
> >> that will not take all that long.
> >>
> >> My current ASP and XML programming styles include reading XML tags
through
> >> LEFT, RIGHT, and MID VB functions as well as using the DOM functions,
> methods
> >> and properties. I know DOM is the most powerful technology that I
personally
> >> use, but is SAX and SOAP worth it? What else am I missing from here?
> >
> >
>