Re: Your thoughts on WAP?


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Thread: Re: Your thoughts on WAP?

  1. #1
    Mike Sax Guest

    Re: Your thoughts on WAP?

    In spite of all the hype, WAP will never achieve broad appeal: It's too
    hard to use, and there is too little value. Have you ever tried entering a
    website using your phone's numeric keypad? It slow, difficult, and
    frustrating. So is browsing through the hierarchical set of menus. Once
    you finally get to where you want to be, the information is presented in a
    tiny screen while your neck hurts from bending down staring at your cell
    phone the whole time.

    To see the future of wireless devices, look at the Palm VII
    (http://www.Palm.com), the VisorPhone (http://www.HandSpring), and the
    Compaq iPaq handheld (http://www.compaq.com/products/handhelds/pocketpc/).
    The combination of a cell phone and a web-clippings/pocket browser is much
    more powerful than anything WAP can provide. Unfortunately, this future is
    still at least three years away from reaching broad acceptance.



  2. #2
    Greg Davis Guest

    Re: Your thoughts on WAP?

    I personally like having my e-mail available on my phone.

    You are arguing that the interface is poor not the technology. The
    interface will improve.



    "Mike Sax" <mike@saxsoft..com.> wrote in message
    news:39e73fcb$1@news.devx.com...
    > In spite of all the hype, WAP will never achieve broad appeal: It's too
    > hard to use, and there is too little value. Have you ever tried entering

    a
    > website using your phone's numeric keypad? It slow, difficult, and
    > frustrating. So is browsing through the hierarchical set of menus. Once
    > you finally get to where you want to be, the information is presented in a
    > tiny screen while your neck hurts from bending down staring at your cell
    > phone the whole time.





  3. #3
    Steve Wade Guest

    Re: Your thoughts on WAP?

    That's what the OS2 guys used to say!

    "Greg Davis" <gdavis@citynetworks.com> wrote in message
    news:39e75ba8$1@news.devx.com...
    > I personally like having my e-mail available on my phone.
    >
    > You are arguing that the interface is poor not the technology. The
    > interface will improve.
    >
    >
    >
    > "Mike Sax" <mike@saxsoft..com.> wrote in message
    > news:39e73fcb$1@news.devx.com...
    > > In spite of all the hype, WAP will never achieve broad appeal: It's too
    > > hard to use, and there is too little value. Have you ever tried

    entering
    > a
    > > website using your phone's numeric keypad? It slow, difficult, and
    > > frustrating. So is browsing through the hierarchical set of menus.

    Once
    > > you finally get to where you want to be, the information is presented in

    a
    > > tiny screen while your neck hurts from bending down staring at your cell
    > > phone the whole time.

    >
    >
    >




  4. #4
    Greg Davis Guest

    Re: Your thoughts on WAP?

    Hmmm.... So phones with displays will stop being supported by someone?

    I'll bet that in the next five years we will see PDA and phone capabilities
    blossom into full fledged MM platoforms in their own right. Further I bet
    that WML/WAP contribute mightily to the delivery of the content.

    BTW has anyone tried to use soap method invocation from a phone yet?

    "Steve Wade" <stevew@prophet.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:39ea360d$1@news.devx.com...

    > That's what the OS2 guys used to say!







  5. #5
    Steve Wade Guest

    Re: Your thoughts on WAP?

    The point I was making here is that, whilst I'm a techie, the technology
    means nothing if it looks bad and is cumbersome. All current WAP offerings
    are this. It will only be accepted with it get's the 1990 Windows 3.0
    treatment - ie something so easy to use (at the time) and intuitive that you
    can't imagine any other way to do it. This is what happened to the PC and
    the rest is history. Then people will buy it and it'll become a necessity.

    "Greg Davis" <gdavis@citynetworks.com> wrote in message
    news:39ea5928@news.devx.com...
    > Hmmm.... So phones with displays will stop being supported by someone?
    >
    > I'll bet that in the next five years we will see PDA and phone

    capabilities
    > blossom into full fledged MM platoforms in their own right. Further I

    bet
    > that WML/WAP contribute mightily to the delivery of the content.
    >
    > BTW has anyone tried to use soap method invocation from a phone yet?
    >
    > "Steve Wade" <stevew@prophet.co.uk> wrote in message
    > news:39ea360d$1@news.devx.com...
    >
    > > That's what the OS2 guys used to say!

    >
    >
    >
    >
    >




  6. #6
    Mike Sax Guest

    Re: Your thoughts on WAP?

    > You are arguing that the interface is poor not the technology.
    > The interface will improve.


    The interface doesn't have any room to improve. The hardware is a
    limitation, with very tiny screens. The software only lets you pick from a
    menu or enter data using a keyboard that requires an average of more than
    two key presses for each character. You can argue that the screens will get
    bigger and that "WAP 2.0 will solve all those problems", and I'm sure that's
    true. But my point was that WAP as it currently exists is not useful enough
    to achieve widespread usage.



  7. #7
    KC Guest

    Re: Your thoughts on WAP?

    I beleive a few things which concern WAP are the bandwidth and its clunky
    interface.GPRS has been doing the rounds and is expected to make waves but
    as WAP phones were very costly when launched, GPRS phones are also very
    expensive. Apart from that the small and textual interface makes it
    difficult for a user to accept WAP as a replacement for the PC.

    WAP should be used only for displaying time critical informtion.None will
    use WAP to browse through a portal because its not a critical thing. He may
    as well wait until he gets home and then uses his favourite browser.

    I still feel pushing information across to the user is better than pull.
    Here is where SMS comes into the picture.

    Ever heard of i-Mode, well if you havent I think NTT communications of Japan
    are having a ball. Uses a compact version of HTML called CHTML, its much
    better than WAP since it can supprt images and also colours and has a much
    wider appeal than WAP apart from the good bandwidth.

    Lot of technology advances ... only time will tell, who sustains and who
    wears out. But I guess WAP may have some competition.





  8. #8
    Östen Guest

    Re: Your thoughts on WAP?



    The hardest and biggest obstacle (from a techniqual point of view) will be
    to develop applications that looks good and works within the hundreds of
    different browsers out there (and not yet out there:-), each device has its
    own capabilities, memory storage, screen size, different WAP version etc.
    We will see a race of platforms that tries to overcome this problem like
    Oracle Portal-to-go and the IBM Transcoder but there is still a long way
    to walk!

    Until that is solved, its impossible to do more complex thing like "Hello
    world" if we want everyone with a WAP device to be able to access it...

    Regards
    Östen



    "Stefan Grünwedel" <sgrunwedel@devx.com> wrote:
    >
    >Welcome to the WAP newsgroup on DevX! Please feel free to discuss any concerns,
    >issues, problems, etc. that you have with WAP development.
    >
    >What are your thoughts on this spec, anyway? At last week's Wireless World
    >2000 in New York ( http://www.wirelessworld2000.com/index.html ), there

    was
    >a debate pro and con WAP. Raj Gupta, CEO of YadaYada, hated it but Devin
    >Pike, an editor at AnywhereYouGo.com, thought it had merits.
    >
    >Does "WAP take companies away from their core competencies by making content
    >creators worry about transport and protocols and wireless carriers worry
    >about content and servers?"
    >
    >Jeromy Hill, the DevX Wireless Development Pro, wrote in a recent editorial
    >that the question is not whether WAP can survive but will it?
    >http://www.devx.com/free/press/2000/081800.asp
    >
    >Regards,
    >
    >Stefan Grünwedel
    >Senior Editor, DevX.com, Inc.



  9. #9
    Gypsy Guest

    Re: Your thoughts on WAP?


    While I agree that the main problem is to get a WML page to display nicely
    in all the different WAP browsers out there,
    I have to disagree to the fact that you can't build any relatively complex
    application...
    I have been actually pretty successful in developing applications
    for cell phones using Java, XML/XSLT. You have to realize that the two main
    browsers (in the US) are the UPBrowser (Phone.com)
    and the Nokia one.You can either design a generic display that
    shows up decently in both of them, or use User Agent recognition
    to load a different XSL file for each one of them...
    Furthermore, I'd like to make a few points, based on what I have been reading
    in this newsgroup:
    -The WAP browser is not intended to replace the HTTP browser.
    What you want your cell phone users to have is time-critical,
    location-based info e.g where is the nearest ATM, checking
    stock quotes...What I am talking about is extending our apps
    to incorporate the mobile user.
    -In my opinion,iMode is NOT going to replace WAP.First, the WAP
    2.0 specifications are taking in the iMode specifications.
    Second, the future of the Web leans towards XML (that's why
    we have XHTML),and iMode uses cHTML,which is a subset of plain
    ol' HTML..WML is XML-based.

    Regards,
    Gypsy.

    "Östen" <ofd@ausys.se> wrote:
    >
    >
    >The hardest and biggest obstacle (from a techniqual point of view) will

    be
    >to develop applications that looks good and works within the hundreds of
    >different browsers out there (and not yet out there:-), each device has

    its
    >own capabilities, memory storage, screen size, different WAP version etc.
    >We will see a race of platforms that tries to overcome this problem like
    >Oracle Portal-to-go and the IBM Transcoder but there is still a long way
    >to walk!
    >
    >Until that is solved, its impossible to do more complex thing like "Hello
    >world" if we want everyone with a WAP device to be able to access it...
    >
    >Regards
    >Östen
    >
    >
    >
    >"Stefan Grünwedel" <sgrunwedel@devx.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>Welcome to the WAP newsgroup on DevX! Please feel free to discuss any concerns,
    >>issues, problems, etc. that you have with WAP development.
    >>
    >>What are your thoughts on this spec, anyway? At last week's Wireless World
    >>2000 in New York ( http://www.wirelessworld2000.com/index.html ), there

    >was
    >>a debate pro and con WAP. Raj Gupta, CEO of YadaYada, hated it but Devin
    >>Pike, an editor at AnywhereYouGo.com, thought it had merits.
    >>
    >>Does "WAP take companies away from their core competencies by making content
    >>creators worry about transport and protocols and wireless carriers worry
    >>about content and servers?"
    >>
    >>Jeromy Hill, the DevX Wireless Development Pro, wrote in a recent editorial
    >>that the question is not whether WAP can survive but will it?
    >>http://www.devx.com/free/press/2000/081800.asp
    >>
    >>Regards,
    >>
    >>Stefan Grünwedel
    >>Senior Editor, DevX.com, Inc.

    >



  10. #10
    Östen Guest

    Re: Your thoughts on WAP?


    I disagree...

    I have also ran a couple of projects based on XML/XSLT where each device
    had its own set of stylesheets generating the WML for the application. It
    worked quite nice when we just had four - five devices to consider (half
    year ago), but it soon turned into a pure XSL-**** when new devices was released
    every "week"!! It is still quite easy to add a new devices but its a nightmare
    to maintain the application (e.g. change the flow, adding new features etc)
    keeping all sets of stylesheets synchronized.

    Your application works well now but does it scale to 60+ devices (the estimated
    number of WAP devices by summer 2001)??

    A solution to this XSL-**** could be to abstract more doing like Portal-to-Go
    and have one set of XSLs for the application generating an abstract layout,
    and one XSL for each device converting it into appropriate WML or equal.
    This looks nice on paper but its not very easy to implement, the browsers
    behaves so different and has very shifting capabilities, this limits an abstract
    layout language to only contain the very simplest layout elements, else it
    wouldn't be convertable to suite all browsers...
    And on top of this we have to make the application look decent in devices
    with all possible screen dimensions and resolutions...
    And on top of this we have to think of the memory capacity for each device,
    how big pages can we send to the browser and how should this be treated in
    our stylesheets...
    And on top of th....

    Is there any other techniques suitable for this kind of 6-dimensional problem????

    So for a while I think we can forget to develop "more" complex applications
    that should be accessable by any type of device...

    Regards
    Östen


    "Gypsy" <gyspy617@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >While I agree that the main problem is to get a WML page to display nicely
    >in all the different WAP browsers out there,
    >I have to disagree to the fact that you can't build any relatively complex
    >application...
    >I have been actually pretty successful in developing applications
    >for cell phones using Java, XML/XSLT. You have to realize that the two main
    >browsers (in the US) are the UPBrowser (Phone.com)
    >and the Nokia one.You can either design a generic display that
    >shows up decently in both of them, or use User Agent recognition
    >to load a different XSL file for each one of them...
    >Furthermore, I'd like to make a few points, based on what I have been reading
    >in this newsgroup:
    >-The WAP browser is not intended to replace the HTTP browser.
    > What you want your cell phone users to have is time-critical,
    > location-based info e.g where is the nearest ATM, checking
    > stock quotes...What I am talking about is extending our apps
    > to incorporate the mobile user.
    >-In my opinion,iMode is NOT going to replace WAP.First, the WAP
    > 2.0 specifications are taking in the iMode specifications.
    > Second, the future of the Web leans towards XML (that's why
    > we have XHTML),and iMode uses cHTML,which is a subset of plain
    > ol' HTML..WML is XML-based.
    >
    > Regards,
    > Gypsy.
    >
    >"Östen" <ofd@ausys.se> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>The hardest and biggest obstacle (from a techniqual point of view) will

    >be
    >>to develop applications that looks good and works within the hundreds of
    >>different browsers out there (and not yet out there:-), each device has

    >its
    >>own capabilities, memory storage, screen size, different WAP version etc.
    >>We will see a race of platforms that tries to overcome this problem like
    >>Oracle Portal-to-go and the IBM Transcoder but there is still a long way
    >>to walk!
    >>
    >>Until that is solved, its impossible to do more complex thing like "Hello
    >>world" if we want everyone with a WAP device to be able to access it...
    >>
    >>Regards
    >>Östen
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>"Stefan Grünwedel" <sgrunwedel@devx.com> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>Welcome to the WAP newsgroup on DevX! Please feel free to discuss any

    concerns,
    >>>issues, problems, etc. that you have with WAP development.
    >>>
    >>>What are your thoughts on this spec, anyway? At last week's Wireless World
    >>>2000 in New York ( http://www.wirelessworld2000.com/index.html ), there

    >>was
    >>>a debate pro and con WAP. Raj Gupta, CEO of YadaYada, hated it but Devin
    >>>Pike, an editor at AnywhereYouGo.com, thought it had merits.
    >>>
    >>>Does "WAP take companies away from their core competencies by making content
    >>>creators worry about transport and protocols and wireless carriers worry
    >>>about content and servers?"
    >>>
    >>>Jeromy Hill, the DevX Wireless Development Pro, wrote in a recent editorial
    >>>that the question is not whether WAP can survive but will it?
    >>>http://www.devx.com/free/press/2000/081800.asp
    >>>
    >>>Regards,
    >>>
    >>>Stefan Grünwedel
    >>>Senior Editor, DevX.com, Inc.

    >>

    >



  11. #11
    Eddie Guest

    Re: Your thoughts on WAP?


    my thoughts as follow:

    1) WAP is a protocol. it transports your request, sends back a WML content.
    Phone browser displays it. It leaves how the phone manufacturer to display
    the WML content. WAP is not just for mobile phone, it for all wireless devices.

    2)WAP is evolving everyday. We have to move forward and not standing there
    looking at its past. WAP is a open standard. i-mode..nope.

    What if flash content could be transported to wap phone What if Java Midlets
    can let you use swing to design your own interface?(does this solve the interface
    problem?) what if GPRS being introduced? Just change the WSP layer to support
    it.

    3)WML content is a subset of XML. I guess we all know how powerful XML is.
    cHTML is proprietary standard. Some cHTML tags is not able to be displayed
    in different versions of phones.

    4)i-mode phone is just availeble in Japan. wap tools/phone is availble and
    supported worldwide. You have the choices. As i-mode is setting up oversea
    research centre in UK, i am waiting to see the improvements.

    5) hmm..colorful display in wireless devices. how come the Japanese manage
    to do in their cell phone? (video conferencing in 9600bps) Why not the cell
    phone Europe, US or elsewhere? I wonder. Their cell phone manage to do video-conferencing,
    why not ours? In a nutshell, it's all up to cell phone manufacturer.

    BR
    Edward Lim


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