Good Editorial by Russell Jones


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Thread: Good Editorial by Russell Jones

  1. #1
    Robert G Guest

    Good Editorial by Russell Jones


    I thought the editorial was right on the money. If you are a programmer and
    you don't want to learn new technologies, it is probably time to start looking
    for a new profession. Once you get down the learning curve, the .NET platform
    actually simplifies things for developers.

    Some people are just too lazy to learn...

  2. #2
    Mark Essex Guest

    Re: Good Editorial by Russell Jones


    "Robert G" <robpg@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >
    >I thought the editorial was right on the money. If you are a programmer

    and
    >you don't want to learn new technologies, it is probably time to start looking
    >for a new profession. Once you get down the learning curve, the .NET platform
    >actually simplifies things for developers.
    >
    >Some people are just too lazy to learn...


    I agree. I thought the article was excellent, and right on the money. I
    think VB Developers have 2 options. Continue programming in VB6, and get
    left behind, or take the time to learn the new architecture and language,
    and take advantage of the new features everybody has been asking for.

    Well put Russell!

    Mark


  3. #3
    Joe Goodman Guest

    Re: Good Editorial by Russell Jones


    You have a good point Robert, we all have to re-train constantly, but this

    release is a huge paradigm shift for some. It's going to require more
    code retooling than it should to bring the old stuff forward, ut that's life.
    I like to tell myself that if this job was easy, anyone could do it. Still,
    Mr. Jones
    editorial that bothers me just a little. He makes light of valid developer
    concerns and then "moves on". He sounds remarkably like a bought-and-paid-for
    Microsoft mouthpiece. I find that a little troubling. I can get the company
    line
    straight from Microsoft. I joined DevX to get more...


    "Robert G" <robpg@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >
    >I thought the editorial was right on the money. If you are a programmer

    and
    >you don't want to learn new technologies, it is probably time to start looking
    >for a new profession. Once you get down the learning curve, the .NET platform
    >actually simplifies things for developers.
    >
    >Some people are just too lazy to learn...



  4. #4
    Roberto Martinez-Brunet Guest

    Re: Good Editorial by Russell Jones

    "Robert G" <robpg@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:3a70222a$1@news.devx.com...
    > I thought the editorial was right on the money. If you are a programmer

    and
    > you don't want to learn new technologies, it is probably time to start

    looking
    > for a new profession. Once you get down the learning curve, the .NET

    platform
    > actually simplifies things for developers.
    >
    > Some people are just too lazy to learn...


    Though I may in general agree with the article some of the opinions
    expressed there are way out of proportion. In particular the suggestion
    that some opinions may be based on the pure egoistic fact that the gurus
    are loosing their condition is imo unnecessary and offensive.

    <quote>
    Here's the real source of the complaints I described at the start. VB.NET
    and the .NET Framework are so different from VB6 and the Windows API that
    existing VB experts have been tossed back into the general .NET programmer
    melting pot—and some of them don't like it there one bit
    </quote>

    How long does the author think it would take to the people he implies to
    get back to the expert level? And why do you think they are lazy? How can
    you accuse of laziness people that have done so much for the VB community
    like Karl Peterson and Randy Birch? (BTW I don't personally know these
    guys and I don't share their views with respect to DOTNET).


    Roberto Martinez-Brunet







  5. #5
    Patrick Troughton Patrick Guest

    Re: Good Editorial by Russell Jones


    FWIW, I don't think lazy is the right word. The fact is that .NET is a whole
    new platform and everyone is essentially starting over from scratch. Experts
    are now former experts. It's only human nature to be resentful or angry.

    "Michael \(michka\) Kaplan" <former_mvp@spamfree.trigeminal.nospam.com> wrote:
    >Great Robert, very dismissive. And I am sure that laziness is the reason
    >that people like me or Karl or Dan or Bob or a myriad of others are
    >concerned.
    >
    >Sheesh, talk about limited vision. I guess dismissing all who disagree with
    >you is a coping mechanism of some sort for you? Or does it just make you
    >feel better to look down on others?


    Ironically, it's the anti-VB.NET folks who lack vision by continuously and
    religiously obsessing over a single issue (compatibility) at the expense
    of all others.

    >Thankfully, MS does not have your attitude and take what is going on now
    >very seriously.


    Other than the last line of Robert's post, he was 100% correct, especially...If
    you are a programmer and you don't want to learn new technologies, it is
    probably time to start looking for a new profession.

    > They do not assume now (if they ever did) that it is
    >laziness, or stupidity, or anything else that holds people back here.


    Laziness probably isn't the right word but it is certainly possible that
    otherwise intelligent people to make mistakes by failing to see the forest
    for the trees. In 5-10 years, we'll look back and see who was right and who
    was wrong...

    /Pat

  6. #6
    Rob Jolt Guest

    Re: Good Editorial by Russell Jones


    <Patrick Troughton Patrick> wrote in message news:3a704a03$1@news.devx.com...
    >
    > FWIW, I don't think lazy is the right word. The fact is that .NET is a whole
    > new platform and everyone is essentially starting over from scratch. Experts
    > are now former experts. It's only human nature to be resentful or angry.


    Ya know, I'm really gettin' po'ed :-) I was very excited last spring when the
    changes for VB7 were listed. I downloaded the .NET SDK the first day I
    could. I saw the changes and overall was very positive. I was thinking,
    "yeah, changed that, fixed that, good job guys." My mind was fancying
    all the code I could rewrite with all the goodies. Inheritance? I can finally
    do away with all that repeated code. The programmer in me was ready
    to rock!

    Now eventually, the developer in me put the whole picture together and
    saw there were more negatives than made up for the benefits, and had
    to face the reality that I couldn't touch all that cool new stuff for years.
    So you call me lazy now because I've evolved my viewpoint beyond
    which you seem capable? Well I may indeed be lazy but at least no way
    I'm that ignorant.



  7. #7
    Patrick Troughton Patrick Guest

    Re: Good Editorial by Russell Jones


    "Rob Jolt" <rjolt@iname.com> wrote:
    >
    ><Patrick Troughton Patrick> wrote in message news:3a704a03$1@news.devx.com...
    >>
    >> FWIW, I don't think lazy is the right word. The fact is that .NET is a

    whole
    >> new platform and everyone is essentially starting over from scratch. Experts
    >> are now former experts. It's only human nature to be resentful or angry.

    >
    >So you call me lazy now because I've evolved my viewpoint beyond
    >which you seem capable? Well I may indeed be lazy but at least no way
    >I'm that ignorant.


    Maybe you're being sarcastic and I'm missing your meaning, but I just said
    'lazy' wasn't the right word.

    /Pat

  8. #8
    Rob Jolt Guest

    Re: Good Editorial by Russell Jones

    "Robert G" <robpg@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:3a70222a$1@news.devx.com...
    >
    > I thought the editorial was right on the money. If you are a programmer and
    > you don't want to learn new technologies, it is probably time to start looking
    > for a new profession.


    Probably. But that shouldn't be used to dismiss the concerns of developers
    who are, after all, the ones that hire the programmers and will ultimately
    determine how successful .NET is or is not.



  9. #9
    Rob Jolt Guest

    Re: Good Editorial by Russell Jones


    "Michael (michka) Kaplan" <former_mvp@spamfree.trigeminal.nospam.com> wrote in message
    news:3a703ef1@news.devx.com...
    > Joe,
    >
    > The fact that Microsoft is a co-sponsor for FTP events has certainly caused
    > some people to wonder.


    It's not hard to understand why a magazine publisher, or component
    vendor, or 9-5 programmer, or a whole lot of people for that matter
    see nothing but good times ahead with .NET. They should not be so
    dissmissive of concerns by the people who will ultimately foot the
    bill (or not) for it all though.

    Magazine publishers have nothing to lose but the trust of their subscribers.



  10. #10
    Rob Jolt Guest

    Re: Good Editorial by Russell Jones


    <Patrick Troughton Patrick> wrote in message news:3a706309@news.devx.com...
    > Maybe you're being sarcastic and I'm missing your meaning, but I just said
    > 'lazy' wasn't the right word.


    That was directed at the "they're just lazy" concept, not necessarily your
    post specifically.



  11. #11
    Mike Mitchell Guest

    Re: Good Editorial by Russell Jones

    On 25 Jan 2001 04:55:06 -0800, "Robert G" <robpg@yahoo.com> wrote:

    >
    >I thought the editorial was right on the money. If you are a programmer and
    >you don't want to learn new technologies, it is probably time to start looking
    >for a new profession. Once you get down the learning curve, the .NET platform
    >actually simplifies things for developers.
    >
    >Some people are just too lazy to learn...


    Being more productive means being lazy. If you aren't lazy by nature,
    you can never appreciate what saving effort really means. Look at many
    of the headless chickens we call managers. They rush hither and
    thither, work 16 hours a day, change decisions on the fly, are
    extremely dynamic, and never actually achieve anything very much,
    because their lives are about striving, not achieving. They are
    convinced they're doing a good job.

    Meanwhile, the lazy low-life of a simple developer, who lacks any
    desire to become another headless chicken, mozeys on down to the
    coffee machine, feeds his face leisurely with another jam doughnut,
    and ponders on whether to rewrite the routine this way or that.

    Who is being more productive here?

    MM

  12. #12
    Sjoerd Verweij Guest

    Re: Good Editorial by Russell Jones

    > Being more productive means being lazy.

    A-freaking-men. For example, I put just about every query that took me more
    than ten minutes to write in a stored procedure. People constantly tell me
    "oh, I never do that... I'm too lazy for that".

    NO, IDIOT, you're _not_lazy_enough_! You're the sap that'll sit there at 7PM
    in about a month writing it all over again!




  13. #13
    Mark Burns Guest

    Re: Good Editorial by Russell Jones


    "Mike Mitchell" <kylix_is@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:3a70bf8d.13207290@news.devx.com...
    > On 25 Jan 2001 04:55:06 -0800, "Robert G" <robpg@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >
    > Meanwhile, the lazy low-life of a simple developer, who lacks any
    > desire to become another headless chicken, mozeys on down to the
    > coffee machine, feeds his face leisurely with another jam doughnut,
    > and ponders on whether to rewrite the routine this way or that.
    >
    > Who is being more productive here?


    shaddup and pass me a donut!....no, not that one, one of those
    cinnamon-sugar ones...<g>



  14. #14
    Karl E. Peterson Guest

    Re: Good Editorial by Russell Jones

    "Mark Burns" <mark@iolofpa.com> wrote in message news:3a711933@news.devx.com...
    >
    > "Mike Mitchell" <kylix_is@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:3a70bf8d.13207290@news.devx.com...
    > > On 25 Jan 2001 04:55:06 -0800, "Robert G" <robpg@yahoo.com> wrote:
    > >
    > > Meanwhile, the lazy low-life of a simple developer, who lacks any
    > > desire to become another headless chicken, mozeys on down to the
    > > coffee machine, feeds his face leisurely with another jam doughnut,
    > > and ponders on whether to rewrite the routine this way or that.
    > >
    > > Who is being more productive here?

    >
    > shaddup and pass me a donut!....no, not that one, one of those
    > cinnamon-sugar ones...<g>


    Yeah, that one, with maple frosting...!

    Later... Karl
    --
    http://www.mvps.org/vb



  15. #15
    Mike Mitchell Guest

    Re: Good Editorial by Russell Jones

    On Fri, 26 Jan 2001 09:04:06 -0800, "Karl E. Peterson" <karl@mvps.org>
    wrote:

    >> shaddup and pass me a donut!....no, not that one, one of those
    >> cinnamon-sugar ones...<g>

    >
    >Yeah, that one, with maple frosting...!
    >


    Goodness, I shall have to Come To America, if you have such very nice
    things like cinnamon-sugar and maple frosting on your do(ugh)nuts!
    (There's no ugh in front of *your* nuts?)

    We only ever get jam in the middle and a bit of granulated round the
    outside. Still pretty nice, though.

    MM

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