Re: Writer's Uninformed Statements - Page 3


DevX Home    Today's Headlines   Articles Archive   Tip Bank   Forums   

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 31 to 39 of 39

Thread: Re: Writer's Uninformed Statements

  1. #31
    Patrick Steele Guest

    Re: Writer's Uninformed Statements

    In article <3b97da78@news.devx.com> (from "Joe \"Nuke Me Xemu\" Foster"
    <joe@bftsi0.UUCP> <"Joe \"Nuke Me Xemu\" Foster" <joe@bftsi0.UUCP>>),
    > "Patrick Steele" <psteele@ipdsolution.com_> wrote in message <news:MPG.16018134a135559a989853@news.devx.com>...
    >
    > > Then perhaps he should not make such statements?

    >
    > Have you ever made statements about, say, heroin or heroin addicts?


    I don't see how that has any relevance to leaking memory "much more
    quickly".

    > > But, let's assume we have a VB Classic example with circular references
    > > (so the object isn't cleaned up properly) and a .NET example where
    > > Dispose is not called (so the object isn't cleaned up properly). Does
    > > the .NET version leak memory "much more quickly"?

    >
    > Let us assume that VB Classic programmers are unable to code their way
    > out of a wet tissue paper bag while we're at it, mmmkay?


    A false assumption, but I'll play your game...

    > Do you claim
    > that Five Forking Years was not enough time for programmers to learn how
    > to cope with and/or avoid circular references?


    All VB programmers? No, there's never going to be a point in time when
    *every* VB programmer is well versed in circular reference avoidance in
    a COM environment. There's always beginners.

    > Will five years be enough
    > time for them to learn how to handle resource management in B# code?


    Can't answer that since there will always be new programmers that need
    to learn the ropes.

    > > I don't want to debate "if" memory can be leaked, I was simply looking
    > > for a code example of how memory is leaked "much more quickly".

    >
    > That's easy enough, since VB.NyET avoids the "obscenely higher" overhead
    > of refcounting altogether, right? Or was Brian Harry lying out his ***
    > after all? http://mvps.org/vbnet/dev/vb7/vbdotn...management.htm


    Why do you keep asking more questions -- to avoid answering mine? You
    made the statement that VB.NET "can leak resources much more quickly".
    You also pointed that I shouldn't discuss a subject "unless you've
    personally taken the time and effort to get to know it. Intimately".

    So I ask again, can you please provide the source code that shows that
    VB.NET leaks resources "much more quickly"?

    --
    Patrick Steele

  2. #32
    Zane Thomas Guest

    Re: Writer's Uninformed Statements

    On Thu, 6 Sep 2001 13:19:03 -0700, "Joe \"Nuke Me Xemu\" Foster"
    <joe@bftsi0.UUCP> wrote:

    >That's easy enough, since VB.NyET avoids the "obscenely higher" overhead
    >of refcounting altogether, right? Or was Brian Harry lying out his ***
    >after all?


    Ya know what Joe, I've met and talked with Brian Harry at MS. My
    experience with him is that he is smart and dedicated to what he does. For
    any question I, or others asked him, he gave good well-thoughout answers
    which have a solid technical foundation. Having a conversation with
    someone like Brian is a refreshing change from the sorts of inane zealous
    anti-everything-ms babble which spews forth from you every day.


    --
    The nice thing about standards is that
    there are so many of them to choose from.

  3. #33
    Phil Weber Guest

    Re: Writer's Uninformed Statements

    > You dislike heroin? Why?

    Joe: Having never tried it, I don't know that I dislike heroin. Based on the
    accounts of addicts, I suspect that I probably would like it -- at least
    initially. As you correctly point out, however, I am in no position to
    engage in a well-informed discussion of heroin addiction until I have had
    some personal experience with addiction or addicts.
    ---
    Phil Weber



  4. #34
    Mike Mitchell Guest

    Re: Writer's Uninformed Statements

    On Thu, 6 Sep 2001 14:48:31 -0700, "Phil Weber" <pweber@devx.com>
    wrote:

    > > You dislike heroin? Why?

    >
    >Joe: Having never tried it, I don't know that I dislike heroin. Based on the
    >accounts of addicts, I suspect that I probably would like it -- at least
    >initially. As you correctly point out, however, I am in no position to
    >engage in a well-informed discussion of heroin addiction until I have had
    >some personal experience with addiction or addicts.


    Yes, you *are*! You have every right to participate in any discussion
    about drugs, purely as a (hopefully) informed citizen. You appear to
    be saying that you would not take part in any discussion about drug
    addiction unless you had had some personal experience of either it or
    its sufferers. But don't you read the newspapers or follow current
    events on TV or radio? Is it not obvious to anyone who can stand
    upright and breathe that addictive drugs are highly dangerous,
    destabilise society, cause tremendous pain and heartache to addicts'
    families and lead to a huge increase in crime?

    MM

  5. #35
    Phil Weber Guest

    Re: Writer's Uninformed Statements

    > You appear to be saying that you would not take part in any
    > discussion about drug addiction unless you had had some personal
    > experience of either it or its sufferers.


    Mike: No, I'm saying that I'm not qualified to be a well-informed
    participant in such a discussion if I'm not well informed. Seems obvious to
    me.
    ---
    Phil Weber



  6. #36
    Joe \Nuke Me Xemu\ Foster Guest

    Re: Writer's Uninformed Statements

    "Larry Serflaten" <serflaten@usinternet.com> wrote in message <news:3b98e85f@news.devx.com>...

    > "Joe "Nuke Me Xemu" Foster" <joe@bftsi0.UUCP> wrote
    > > > > Were your leak tests properly disposing of objects?
    > > >
    > > > Patrick: I think you know as well as I do that Joe has not personally
    > > > conducted any such tests.

    > >
    > > **** straight. Furthermore, I think that every one of you who demands
    > > that I "personally conduct" any such tests should "personally conduct"
    > > experiments with, say, high doses of "black tar" heroin.

    >
    > Why are you here, Joe?


    Because apparently silence is permission:

    news://news.devx.com/3aba805f$1@news.devx.com

    > So you have an issue with MS taking a new direction, OK, that's a given.
    > But what makes you think that the people who want to use it, are going to
    > benefit from your bad mouthing it in every post?


    They won't, but those who have yet to decide might. Or has this ng
    been renamed to vb.dotnet.cheerleading while I wasn't looking?

    --
    Joe Foster <mailto:jlfoster%40znet.com> "Regged" again? <http://www.xenu.net/>
    WARNING: I cannot be held responsible for the above They're coming to
    because my cats have apparently learned to type. take me away, ha ha!



  7. #37
    Larry Serflaten Guest

    Re: Writer's Uninformed Statements


    "Joe "Nuke Me Xemu" Foster" <joe@bftsi0.UUCP> wrote
    > > > Were your leak tests properly disposing of objects?

    > >
    > > Patrick: I think you know as well as I do that Joe has not personally
    > > conducted any such tests.

    >
    > **** straight. Furthermore, I think that every one of you who demands
    > that I "personally conduct" any such tests should "personally conduct"
    > experiments with, say, high doses of "black tar" heroin.


    Why are you here, Joe?

    So you have an issue with MS taking a new direction, OK, that's a given.
    But what makes you think that the people who want to use it, are going to
    benefit from your bad mouthing it in every post?

    Here you are, attempting what amounts to, critiquing a book by its cover,
    making statements that show a significant lack of understanding of the new
    capabilites, to a group of people who, for the most part, are trying to find
    out what's really available. Why do you bother? Anyone can spread lies,
    and misinformation, you're not going to gather support that way....

    I just can't see why you keep at it, day after day....

    LFS






  8. #38
    Larry Serflaten Guest

    Re: Writer's Uninformed Statements


    "Phil Weber" <pweber@devx.com> wrote

    > Mike: You are mistaken. VB.NET is no more difficult to learn than previous
    > versions of VB were. (In fact, with the help of IntelliSense and the copious
    > context-sensitive help provided by the .NET IDE, I'd argure that VB.NET is
    > easier to learn than the VB2 with which I started.)



    I disagree. There is far more to learn in VB.Net, than was required for earlier
    versions. I am more of the opinion that we do in fact have to learn the lower
    intricacies of 'Windows' programming, more now than we ever did, with VB, before.

    For a familiar example, how would you upgrade this:

    Private Sub Form_Load()
    Me.AutoRedraw = True
    Me.Print "Hello World!"
    End Sub

    Then ask yourself if that upgraded syntax, is still a part of the VB language.
    Obviously it has to be learned, so that the sample can be upgraded, but I think,
    the new syntax is more involved with how to manage 'Windows' programming
    than it is a part of VB....


    LFS





  9. #39
    Mike Mitchell Guest

    Re: Writer's Uninformed Statements

    On Fri, 7 Sep 2001 03:27:56 -0700, "Phil Weber" <pweber@devx.com>
    wrote:

    >Mike: No, I'm saying that I'm not qualified to be a well-informed
    >participant in such a discussion if I'm not well informed. Seems obvious to
    >me.


    You can inform yourself to a much better level of knowledge than
    others in the discussion might have, despite there being no need for
    you to imbibe personally.

    MM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
HTML5 Development Center
 
 
FAQ
Latest Articles
Java
.NET
XML
Database
Enterprise
Questions? Contact us.
C++
Web Development
Wireless
Latest Tips
Open Source


   Development Centers

   -- Android Development Center
   -- Cloud Development Project Center
   -- HTML5 Development Center
   -- Windows Mobile Development Center