Why don't you go back to the days of DOS!!

[Joe \Nuke Me Xemu\ Foster]

"W.E. (Bill) Goodrich, PhD" <bgoodric@earthlink.net> wrote in message <news:3BAD1C1D.571391CB@earthlink.net>...

> In article <3bacdecc.733169343@news.devx.com>,
> zane@mabry.com (Zane Thomas) writes:

> > According to the authoritative source you claim you are.
>
> Unlike you (have you EVER provided a cite in this newsgroup?), I have

Yes: He's posted multiple links to, among others, "Joel on Software",
the guy Ian R. likes to dismiss as "an idiot" who "(as usual) is just
pointing out something obvious" <news:3babe73f$1@news.devx.com> :

"No, I'm calling him an idiot." -- Ian R., news:3bacc429$1@news.devx.com

> provided pointers to sources OUTSIDE of this group and encouraged
> people to check the facts for themselves. To date, all I have seen you
> do is make unsubstantiated assertions and insult anyone who doesn't
> accept your word as Gospel.

The Gospel has changed radically. The Old Zestament is in vb.vb7...

"Ya know, the sort of hype and hoopla that we're seeing from MS Marketting
is getting really old. The whole world is going to change!!! Yeah,
right.

"Here's some interesting reading for those who haven't seen it yet,
recommened reading for those who think the sky is falling:

" http://joel.editthispage.com/stories/storyReader$133 "
-- Z, 2000-08-04, news://news.devx.com/3a0a2f8c.586707490@news.devx.com

--
Joe Foster <mailto:jlfoster%40znet.com> Greed = God? <http://www.xenu.net/>
WARNING: I cannot be held responsible for the above They're coming to
because my cats have apparently learned to type. take me away, ha ha!

[Ian R]

"W.E. (Bill) Goodrich, PhD" <bgoodric@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3BAD1C1D.571391CB@earthlink.net...

....[more dribble snipped]...
>
> And I don't recall you disputing the fact that M$ entered EXISTING
> markets with unstable, technologically inferior imitations of CP/M
> and the Mac OS. But Ian keeps trying to pretend otherwise, and you
> keep responding to my answers to HIS pathetic attempts at rewriting
> history.
>

That's not what I've been saying you blockhead. The whole point of my
argument has been that MS is responsible for many technologies currently out
on the market today, which you keep denying.

> > For the vast majority of MS's existence they have not been the
> > first in the market,
>
> Which is EXACTLY what I was saying, and exactly what Ian has been
> trying so hard to deny. But then again, he is the one who keeps

Read the above point. And do it with your eyes open.

> trying to redefine "implemented".
>

Most of us don't use the Mt. Olympus edition.

....[more dribble snipped]...

Bill, you are a pompous *** who likes to argue for the sake of arguing. Your
posts are long winded, evasive and have no bearing at all to any questions
that are posed to you. Your pompous airs may impress those back on Mt
Olympus, but they don't impress myself or anyone else who can see what a
fraudulent idiot you are.
There is no point in carrying on any sort of conversation with you since you
don't bother reading anything that's posted and only see what you want to
see. It's obvious you know nothing about technology and .NET in particular.
What you're doing here is beyond me.
This thread has gone on far too long. Don't bother replying, you're going on
my ignore list. Your pathetic attempts to try and carry on conversations
outside of this newsgroup are well known. If I so much as get an email or
ping from you, I'm going to come down there and put my boot up your ***. You
got that ?
My apologies to all, for this crap. Consider it done on my end.

END OF THREAD

[Joe \Nuke Me Xemu\ Foster]

"Ian R" <ianr@na.net> wrote in message <news:3bacc429$1@news.devx.com>...

> "Joe "Nuke Me Xemu" Foster" <joe@bftsi0.UUCP> wrote in message
> news:3bacbe48@news.devx.com...
> > > > " http://joel.editthispage.com/stories/storyReader$133 "
> > > > -- Gollum Z, 2000-08-04, vb.vb7, in <3a0a2f8c.586707490@news.devx.com>
> >
> > > Another idiot who hasn't bothered to actually check things out.
> >
> > Thank you for confirming that Zane Thomas is in fact an idiot. How
>
> Joe, you are completely and utterly insane. Where does that say anything
> about anyone other than Joel or possibly you ?
> Now listen carefully. Do not ever infer or in any way change anything I say
> to fit your twisted quest again ? You got that ?

I feel absolutely free to add two and two to get four anytime I wish!
Now why would Zane be posting multiple links to "another idiot who hasn't
bothered to actually check things out" unless he was another idiot himself,
hmmm?

"I think this is appropriate here as it relates to complaints about the
size of .net: http://joel.editthispage.com/stories/storyReader$308"
-- Ice Z, 2001-03-23, news:3afb0e80.249740703@news.devx.com

"Yes, I've been reading Joel's stuff for a while. He has some excellent
articles, especially regarding design issues
(http://joel.editthispage.com/stories/storyReader$212). However, I don't
think he's always right and like you reserve my ability to exercise
critical judgement no matter who the author is."
-- Zane, 2001-09-07, news:3ba025e9.48592750@news.devx.com

And now, the original link, with which Zane (and Karl) seemed to agree:

"Ya know, the sort of hype and hoopla that we're seeing from MS Marketting
is getting really old. The whole world is going to change!!! Yeah,
right.

"Here's some interesting reading for those who haven't seen it yet,
recommened reading for those who think the sky is falling:

"http://joel.editthispage.com/stories/storyReader$133"
-- Zane, 2000-08-04, news:3a0a2f8c.586707490@news.devx.com

Are you going to keep denying the obvious?

--
Joe Foster <mailto:jlfoster%40znet.com> Sacrament R2-45 <http://www.xenu.net/>
WARNING: I cannot be held responsible for the above They're coming to
because my cats have apparently learned to type. take me away, ha ha!

[Ian R]

"Joe "Nuke Me Xemu" Foster" <joe@bftsi0.UUCP> wrote in message
news:3bad2613@news.devx.com...
> > > Thank you for confirming that Zane Thomas is in fact an idiot. How
> >
> > Joe, you are completely and utterly insane. Where does that say anything
> > about anyone other than Joel or possibly you ?
> > Now listen carefully. Do not ever infer or in any way change anything I
say
> > to fit your twisted quest again ? You got that ?
>
> I feel absolutely free to add two and two to get four anytime I wish!
>

You're free to have your opinions. You're not free to twist and put words in
other peoples' mouths. Don't push your luck anymore.

[Joe \Nuke Me Xemu\ Foster]

"Ian R" <ianr@na.net> wrote in message <news:3bad2aac@news.devx.com>...

> "Joe "Nuke Me Xemu" Foster" <joe@bftsi0.UUCP> wrote in message
> news:3bad2613@news.devx.com...
> > > > Thank you for confirming that Zane Thomas is in fact an idiot. How
> > >
> > > Joe, you are completely and utterly insane. Where does that say anything
> > > about anyone other than Joel or possibly you ?
> > > Now listen carefully. Do not ever infer or in any way change anything I
> say
> > > to fit your twisted quest again ? You got that ?
> >
> > I feel absolutely free to add two and two to get four anytime I wish!

> You're free to have your opinions. You're not free to twist and put words in
> other peoples' mouths. Don't push your luck anymore.

Twist them, how? Are your words infallible ex cathedra utterances, or
what? Just what /should/ be inferred when Zane recommends reading the
articles of "another idiot who hasn't bothered to actually check things
out" who "(as usual) is just pointing out something obvious", hmmm?
And with what, exactly, are you threatening me for daring to infer the
obvious?

"If I so much as get an email or ping from you, I'm going to come down
there and put my boot up your ***."
-- Ian R, 2001-09-22, news:3bad25bc$1@news.devx.com

--
Joe Foster <mailto:jlfoster%40znet.com> Space Cooties! <http://www.xenu.net/>
WARNING: I cannot be held responsible for the above They're coming to
because my cats have apparently learned to type. take me away, ha ha!

[Ian R]

"Joe "Nuke Me Xemu" Foster" <joe@bftsi0.UUCP> wrote in message
news:3bad499d@news.devx.com...
>
> > You're free to have your opinions. You're not free to twist and put
words in
> > other peoples' mouths. Don't push your luck anymore.
>
> Twist them, how? Are your words infallible ex cathedra utterances, or
> what? Just what /should/ be inferred when Zane recommends reading the
> articles of "another idiot who hasn't bothered to actually check things

The idiot in question was Joel. I posted "Another idiot who hasn't bothered
to actually check things out" in response to the link you posted to Joel's
site. To which you replied "Thank you for confirming that Zane Thomas is in
fact an idiot.". No where did I mention Zane. You're either blind, on drugs
or twisting words. It's beginning to look like all three.

> out" who "(as usual) is just pointing out something obvious", hmmm?
> And with what, exactly, are you threatening me for daring to infer the
> obvious?
>
> "If I so much as get an email or ping from you, I'm going to come down
> there and put my boot up your ***."
> -- Ian R, 2001-09-22, news:3bad25bc$1@news.devx.com
>

Joe, you really are out to lunch, utterly and completely out to lunch. Look
at the post. It's directed to Bill Goodrich. No where is your name
mentioned. Anywhere. You're now resorting to using posts to other people to
fuel your paranoia. That's insane. Joe, you're a raving lunatic. Go get some
help. Seriously.

Will somebody do something about this nut ?

[David A. Rothgery]

Ian R <ianr@na.net> wrote:

> Joe, you really are out to lunch, utterly and completely out to lunch. Look
> at the post. It's directed to Bill Goodrich. No where is your name
> mentioned. Anywhere. You're now resorting to using posts to other people to
> fuel your paranoia. That's insane. Joe, you're a raving lunatic. Go get some
> help. Seriously.
>
> Will somebody do something about this nut ?

You're using Outlook Express.
Message->Block Sender.
HTH.

--
Dave Rothgery
Picking nits since 1976
drothgery@alum.wpi.edu
http://drothgery.editthispage.com

[Ian R]

It's not just a matter of blocking. I'm aware of how to that. He's a raving
lunatic who's pissing a lot of people off. Including some of the new users
in the MS groups.

"David A. Rothgery" <drothgery@alum.wpi.edu> wrote in message
news:MPG.1616f5d623ce86989896e5@news.devx.com...
> Ian R <ianr@na.net> wrote:
>
> > Joe, you really are out to lunch, utterly and completely out to lunch.
Look
> > at the post. It's directed to Bill Goodrich. No where is your name
> > mentioned. Anywhere. You're now resorting to using posts to other people
to
> > fuel your paranoia. That's insane. Joe, you're a raving lunatic. Go get
some
> > help. Seriously.
> >
> > Will somebody do something about this nut ?
>
> You're using Outlook Express.
> Message->Block Sender.
> HTH.
>
> --
> Dave Rothgery
> Picking nits since 1976
> drothgery@alum.wpi.edu
> http://drothgery.editthispage.com

[Joe \Nuke Me Xemu\ Foster]

"David A. Rothgery" <drothgery@alum.wpi.edu> wrote in message <news:MPG.1613180f3c48f0dc9896e0@news.devx.com>...

> Ian R <ianr@na.net> wrote:
> >
> > "Joe "Nuke Me Xemu" Foster" <joe@bftsi0.UUCP> wrote in message
> > news:3ba96e53@news.devx.com...
> > >
> > > "Here's some interesting reading for those who haven't seen it yet,
> > > recommened reading for those who think the sky is falling:
> > >
> > > " http://joel.editthispage.com/stories/storyReader$133 "
> > > -- Gollum Z, 2000-08-04, vb.vb7, in <3a0a2f8c.586707490@news.devx.com>

> > Another idiot who hasn't bothered to actually check things out.
>
> No, just an article written over a year ago, blasting Microsoft's .NET
> marketing strategy, not Visual Studio.NET.

Wasn't the whole Hobbit/Gollum thing a strong hint that my post was
about how Gospel Z has changed quite radically over time, thereby
guaranteeing inconsistency and error? Kids these days... =^|

--
Joe Foster <mailto:jlfoster%40znet.com> On the cans? <http://www.xenu.net/>
WARNING: I cannot be held responsible for the above They're coming to
because my cats have apparently learned to type. take me away, ha ha!

[David A. Rothgery]

Ian R <ianr@na.net> wrote:
> It's not just a matter of blocking. I'm aware of how to that. He's a raving
> lunatic who's pissing a lot of people off. Including some of the new users
> in the MS groups.

There was some degree of sarcasm in my previous post.

More seriously, it's been my experience with persistant trolls in other
newsgroups that the only way to get rid of them is for everyone else to
killfile and ignore them. Eventually, they realize that they're only
talking to themselves, pick up their toys, and go home.

--
Dave Rothgery
Picking nits since 1976
drothgery@alum.wpi.edu
http://drothgery.editthispage.com

[Mike Mitchell]

On Fri, 21 Sep 2001 17:57:11 -0500, "Jay Glynn" <jlsglynn@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>For once do your homework. This concept is NOT new. It's been aroundd for a
>while under several different names. The key thing is having strong
>developers (something you wouldn't know about). The productivity actually
>goes up....considerably.

I didn't say it was a new concept. And I have absolutely no complaints
about the need for strong developers. Heck, they (i.e. we) used to
have to be physically strong to shift those floor-standing 40 MB
Control Data drive units and the other real 'hard'ware of the 70s. You
every tried keeping 8 inch floppies from bending? I tell ya, it's a
nightmare that would have the best brains in Viagra labs all over the
world scratching their heads. And my 'strong developers' are the
internet FAQs and forums, the countless books written about myriad
aspects of computing, and, until recently, magazines like VBPJ. Not
every firm can afford a Karl Peterson on the staff, but for under four
bucks a pop we had him pop in once a month, and it was great! We
learned a lot.

MM

[Mike Mitchell]

On Fri, 21 Sep 2001 18:58:43 -0400, "Ian R" <ianr@na.net> wrote:

>Ok Mike. I'll make it simple. I don't (or at least I try to avoid) making
>claims and comments about something I'm not well informed on.
>Opinions are fine. This is after all a public newsgroup. Wild inaccurate
>claims I don't agree with. With me so far ?

Nope. (It's only an opinion, though.)

MM

[Mike Mitchell]

On Sat, 22 Sep 2001 21:37:15 -0700, David A. Rothgery
<drothgery@alum.wpi.edu> wrote:

>More seriously, it's been my experience with persistant trolls in other
>newsgroups that the only way to get rid of them is for everyone else to
>killfile and ignore them. Eventually, they realize that they're only
>talking to themselves, pick up their toys, and go home.

"Any society which is afraid enough of criticism that it shoots the
messengers must be unsure of its own gospel."

MM

[Mike Mitchell]

On Fri, 21 Sep 2001 12:39:22 -0700, "Zane Thomas" <zane@mabry.com>
wrote:

>I'll let Ian deal with you on that issue,

What's this? Good cop/bad cop?

> however I will add that MS has
>some significant innovations in vs.net and the framework. Which, I gather,
>you actually don't know anything about.

Name one innovation that will benefit users. They're the ones paying
for it.

>I know, we're all familiar with the stream of assertions which flow from
>you. The fact is, however, that MS has produced very good tools for
>developers over the years. And, to point out the obvious since it is
>apparently lost on you, VB1 was a significant innovation.

Was this not actually Alan Cooper's innovation?

>And, you appear to be suffering from a rather shallow understanding of what
>creativity and innovation are really like. Very few new ideas arise whole
>without relying on the work of people who have gone before, both good and
>bad. Most innovation is incremental.

Innovate: "To begin or introduce (something new) for or as if for the
first time."

(Microsoft Bookshelf, The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English
Language, Third Edition copyright © 1992 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Electronic version licensed from InfoSoft International, Inc. All
rights reserved.)

>ROFMLAO! CP/M? You've got to be kidding, that was a cobbled-together piece
>of crap and MS/DOS was better from day one.

How was it better? Some facts, please!

MM

[Mike Mitchell]

On Sat, 22 Sep 2001 19:07:11 GMT, zane@mabry.com (Zane Thomas) wrote:

>Imitative? MS has, as usual, gone beyond what already exists.

Are you admitting that Microsoft just reverse-engineered Java?

> Vs.net is
>a very nice development environment, c# is nice, and the framework classes
>provide a huge amount of leverage to developers.

Maybe, but only by becoming ever more tightly locked into their
proprietary solution. Even "unmanaged" is now a dirty word. We cannot
be allowed to think for ourselves. This is stifling innovation rather
than increasing it. You seem to forget that the ONLY reason Microsoft
is doing this is to ensure more of OUR money passes to THEM.

>As to "belated", we've already covered that topic and I don't recall you
>disputing the idea that there is some merit from a business perspective to
>see what happens in the market and then "embrace and extend". For the
>vast majority of MS's existence they have not been the first in the
>market, and have imo profited from taking a more conservative approach to
>emerging technology and markets.

That's correct. They weren't the first. They waited for a startup to
deliver the innovation, which they then purchased. Result? Startup
folds. No more innovation. Until the next startup, that is.

MM