Web Services

[Zane Thomas]

On Sun, 25 Nov 2001 11:55:21 GMT, kylix_is@yahoo.co.uk (Mike Mitchell)
wrote:

>Will Windows Forms make money in their own right? Will SOAP make money
>in its own right? What about XML? HTML? All these re-hashed
>"innovations" will serve one purpose, and that is to produce, deliver,
>and consume web services within a .NET world controlled, if possible,

Wrong again Mike, Windows Forms apps are not joined-at-the hip to soap or
any other web-related stuff. I'm wondering how many people have to tell
you that how many times before you get it.


--
It's never too late to have
a happy childhood.

[Mike Mitchell]

On Sun, 25 Nov 2001 19:07:51 GMT, zane@mabry.com (Zane Thomas) wrote:

>On Sun, 25 Nov 2001 11:55:21 GMT, kylix_is@yahoo.co.uk (Mike Mitchell)
>wrote:
>
>>Will Windows Forms make money in their own right? Will SOAP make money
>>in its own right? What about XML? HTML? All these re-hashed
>>"innovations" will serve one purpose, and that is to produce, deliver,
>>and consume web services within a .NET world controlled, if possible,
>
>Wrong again Mike, Windows Forms apps are not joined-at-the hip to soap or
>any other web-related stuff. I'm wondering how many people have to tell
>you that how many times before you get it.

As the jury will see in the above quote, I did not mention Windows
Forms apps, you did. Neither did I join anything at the hip, I merely
enumerated some of the parts making up .NET, the synergy of which will
combine for producing, delivering and consuming web services. What is
the point of a WinForm on its lonesome? Is Microsoft going to make any
money by some developer somewhere in Maryland sticking a WinForm in
his app? No. The most Microsoft could hope to earn there is from sales
of the OS and Visual Studio.NET. But if that app consumes, produces or
delivers a web service, or participates in some way in those
processes, especially if many thousands of users consume, i.e. use,
that app with the WinForm in it, then Microsoft has a good chance of
being remunerated for supplying value-adding services to assist that
web service on its way out to its users, and also can earn from the
various core services, such as Passport and My Services for validating
user accounts, granting permissions, raising charges, and monitoring
web service usage. In another case, the web service itself could in
fact be a Microsoft-written product, and money can flow from that,
too. The WinForm bit is just that, a cog in the machine. The machine
has started rolling, Microsoft has thrown the gear lever and kicked in
the clutch and the cogs are beginning to mesh. The juggernaut has
life, and it's called .NET, all-encompassing around, behind, above and
beneath web services.

MM

[Zane Thomas]

Mike,

>As the jury will see in the above quote ...

If there was a jury here you'd have been tried, found guilty, and would
have long since rotted at the end of a rope.


>... I did not mention Windows Forms apps

Free clue: There are no Windows Forms without Windows Forms apps.


>What is the point of a WinForm on its lonesome? Is Microsoft going
>to make any money by some developer somewhere in Maryland sticking
>a WinForm in his app? No.


First, see previous comment again. Second, MS benefits from windows forms
applications by continuing to be the de facto desktop operating system.
Duh.



>The most Microsoft could hope to earn there is from sales
>of the OS and Visual Studio.NET.

The most? You think there's something insignificant about the revenue
they derive from such sales?


<rest snipped>

Give it a rest Mike, you clearly don't know what you're talking about.


--
It's never too late to have
a happy childhood.

[balanbe]

> I venture to guess
>that I have much more insight into this issue than you do, since I've been
>writing .net code for over a year and only played with web services for
a
>few days total. You, otoh, apparently haven't even bothered installing
>..net or reading the documentation.

Thanks Zane. Thanks all.
From what all of you guys said, I found out that I could continue to write
Windows Applications (desk top apps) with out bothering myself with these
Web Services things. That was what I wanted to do at least in the coming
year or two. I like Windows and I sort of feel uncomfortable when talking
about anything that has a 'Web' in it. Long live VS and Windows.

[Zane Thomas]

On 25 Nov 2001 22:02:20 GMT, "balanbe" <betemariam@yahoo.com> wrote:

>From what all of you guys said, I found out that I could continue to write
>Windows Applications (desk top apps)

Enjoy, and if you have technical questions they're best posted in
vb.dotnet.technical instead of here. :-)


--
It's never too late to have
a happy childhood.

[Patrick Steele]

In article <3bfd6937@147.208.176.211> (from Jay Glynn
<jlsglynn@hotmail.com>),
> I'm sure in a minute or two I'll be laughing as hard as Zane.

Took me less than a second. Every one around me thought I'd gotten an
email with the best joke in the world I was laughing so hard.

--
Patrick Steele
Microsoft .NET MVP

[Joe \Nuke Me Xemu\ Foster]

"balanbe" <betemariam@yahoo.com> wrote in message <news:3c016a6c$1@147.208.176.211>...

> Thanks Zane. Thanks all.
> From what all of you guys said, I found out that I could continue to write
> Windows Applications (desk top apps) with out bothering myself with these
> Web Services things. That was what I wanted to do at least in the coming
> year or two. I like Windows and I sort of feel uncomfortable when talking
> about anything that has a 'Web' in it. Long live VS and Windows.

So nobody still running Lose95 could possibly be interested in your new
work? You're comfortable with showing your algorithms to the world?
(Check out http://www.saurik.com/net/exemplar/ ) At least with Classic
VB, the Visual C++ guys were in the same boat with us if a discompiler
for VS5/6 started making the rounds. Oh yeah, B# will give you the very
overhyped "XCOPY installs" only if the .NET run-times are already on the
target computers. If your apps have had self-healing capabilities since
the VB3 days, "XCOPY install" is an "XTREME yawner". It's not so hard,
once you've taken a tour of the VB setupkit's "setup1" directory. Start
with the form_load event in setup1.frm. I'm not saying I've never been
in "DLL ****", but the overwhelming majority of my DLL **** problems are
because of Microsoft, such as ADO and their OCXs, the ****ing jerks...

Speaking of .NET run-times, how big will they be, as compared to MSVBVM?

http://support.microsoft.com/support.../Q290/8/87.ASP

Oh well, thank %INVISIBLE_FRIEND% for QCHAIN, if not its documentation...

http://microsoft.com/NTServer/nts/do...in/default.asp

--
Joe Foster <mailto:jlfoster%40znet.com> Sacrament R2-45 <http://www.xenu.net/>
WARNING: I cannot be held responsible for the above They're coming to
because my cats have apparently learned to type. take me away, ha ha!

[Jay Glynn]

You know where Microsoft sees web services being used in the next 2 - 3
years? Corporate intranets and some B2B. That is where they see it. You are
so absolutely clueless that I just amazed you can find your way to work
everyday.


>
> Will Windows Forms make money in their own right? Will SOAP make money
> in its own right? What about XML? HTML? All these re-hashed
> "innovations" will serve one purpose, and that is to produce, deliver,
> and consume web services within a .NET world controlled, if possible,
> by Microsoft. That's what they're doing it for. To make money. They're
> not going to make money by selling VB.NET, C#, or the .NET framework
> to a few thousand (okay, so it's Sunday, I'm feeling generous)
> programmers. (After all, they'll be giving away the .NET framework
> soon enough with the next OS or the one after.) Those kinds of sums
> from the developer community are miniscule. No, they will get their
> money from the web services that millions upon millions of consumers
> will buy. The consumers will buy web services on the fly for one-off
> use, or by subscription for longer term, pre-planned use -- like
> stopping taking the anti-baby pill in good time if you decide to get
> pregnant. This way lies the road to riches, and every new baby will
> get a Passport. Eventually, everything you do on a personal computer,
> and maybe even in the mainframe world, too, will be a web service of
> one kind or another. Ideally, if I don Microsoft's rose-tinted
> spectacles for a moment, each and every transaction between any two
> computers on the planet will involve a web service of some kind and
> that web service will trickle micropayments to Microsoft. That's
> probably why Bill thought up the name "Microsoft" -- it was all
> eventually going to be about micropayments from millions of consumers.
> He's got vision, has Bill. What is it that you think he does on his
> think weeks?
>
> >I guess all I can do is sit and shake my head some more....
>
> Isn't that what they call head-banging? Isn't it dangerous?
>
> MM

[Larry Serflaten]

"Jay Glynn" <jlsglynn@hotmail.com> wrote
> You know where Microsoft sees web services being used in the next 2 - 3
> years? Corporate intranets and some B2B. That is where they see it. You are
> so absolutely clueless that I just amazed you can find your way to work
> everyday.

How long do you think it will take MS to back/market a PDA whose sole purpose is
to be a front end for MyServices? I'd lay odds its already on the drawing board....

<g>
LFS