Are Customers Microsoft's Number 1 Priority?


DevX Home    Today's Headlines   Articles Archive   Tip Bank   Forums   

Page 1 of 18 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 256

Thread: Are Customers Microsoft's Number 1 Priority?

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Ed Guest

    Are Customers Microsoft's Number 1 Priority?


    Reading the various postings, it is becoming clear that most participants
    either love Microsoft or hate Microsoft and each side supports their position
    with facts, antidotes, rumors, etc. As always the truth
    is somewhere in the middle. Microsoft does make good products and Microsoft
    needs to improve. This forum should be one where developers, customers, etc.
    can voice their issues and concerns about what Microsoft does or doesn't
    do with their product offerings.

    My number one concern is the customer is NOT Microsoft's number one priority.
    The material disclosed during their latest anti-thrust case indicates that
    Microsoft is obsessed with beating their competition. Microsoft is so focused
    on their competition that they have lost or losing sight of their customers.

    Many of you will say, it isnít so. But let's look at the facts.

    1. Microsoft doesn't have anything coming close to a User Group that most
    other IT Companies have. Yes, these groups are bureaucratic and cumbersome.
    But at least their is a formal mechanism for people to voice their concerns
    and suggestions. The announcement of assigning YAG to the VB Product team
    is Microsoft's reluctant way of agreeing with
    this observation. However, what Microsoft has done with YAG is simply throwing
    the VB Community a bone. Everyone should be able to agree that the VB.Net
    strategy has some significant shortcomings. A VB Userís forum would have
    given Microsoft important and immediate feedback. But when Marketing is
    looking after future product direction and features and the companyís number
    one priority is beating the competition, then customer concerns get lost.
    Do you think the following conversation ever happened at Microsoft:

    MS Staff #1, We have to get VB onto the .Net bandwagon.

    MS Staff #2, That sounds like a good idea but there will be some migration
    problems going from VB6 to .Net.

    MS Staff #1, Ya, that sounds like it may be a problem. But remember, we
    need .Net to beat Java, Linux, Sun, Sony, etc. So, letís go. We're betting
    the company on .Net. Besides what are the VBers going to do. Take their
    code to Linux or Unix. Donít think so. Not an issue.

    You think that maybe this conversation would be different if someone around
    the table from the VB User Community were present and said something like:

    A lot of the developers really like .Net but we have some serious concerns.
    Firstly, we have a community of VB developers who have a migration problem
    going from VB6 to .Net. Is there anything you can do to make this migration
    smoother. Maybe you could support both versions for the time being until
    you can provide the tools to make migration easier. Secondly, we have a
    community of VB developers who want the product to remain easy to use. There
    is no real desire for these developers to program enterprise applications.
    What can you do to continue to make VB easy to use?


    2. For years, customers have been complaining about security.
    Microsoft makes some token announcement but doesn't really do anything about
    it. When your number one priority is
    beating the competition, customer concerns are secondary. Finally, a Gartner
    analyst announces that customers should not use Microsoft IIS for their Web
    hosting platform because of it's serious security shortcomings.
    Whatís the reaction? The Microsoft lovers say that the analyst doesn't know
    what he is talking about. Security problems are simply a product of Microsoftís
    success. Guess what. Bill Gates announces that Trustworthy Computing is
    now Microsoft's Number 1 priority. What happen here? What happen to betting
    the company on .Net? Well, suddenly
    customers are hitting Microsoft over the head with a 2 by 4 and they're finally
    listening to their customers.


    The biggest problem with Microsoft today is that it is too obsessed with
    beating down the competition. This is not to say that it should completely
    ignore its competition. But it shouldn't be so obsessed that it is blind
    to other aspects of its business such as its customers. Customers have every
    right to voice their concerns about what their supplier is doing with its
    products and services. I know that you canít satisfy everyone. But that
    is what companies have to do; they have to balance their vision of the future
    with their current and future customerís vision of the future. The closer
    those two visions are the more successful the company. It is time for Microsoft
    to put customers number one and make beating the competition number 2 or
    3 because if they satisfy their customers better than their competition,
    then beating the competition takes care of itself. There are serious concerns
    coming from the VB community. Writing these concerns off as rants from Microsoft
    haterís is not doing justice to these concerns. If Microsoft is serious
    about making the customer number 1, then they better start finding better
    ways of getting customer feedback and addressing customer concerns. By the
    way, listening to IT management and developers from Fortune 100 companies
    is not my idea of listening to your customers.




  2. #2
    Cali LaFollett Guest

    Re: Are Customers Microsoft's Number 1 Priority?

    > 1. Microsoft doesn't have anything coming close to a User Group that most
    > other IT Companies have. Yes, these groups are bureaucratic and

    cumbersome.
    > But at least their is a formal mechanism for people to voice their

    concerns
    > and suggestions. The announcement of assigning YAG to the VB Product team
    > is Microsoft's reluctant way of agreeing with
    > this observation. However, what Microsoft has done with YAG is simply

    throwing
    > the VB Community a bone. Everyone should be able to agree that the VB.Net
    > strategy has some significant shortcomings. A VB Userís forum would have
    > given Microsoft important and immediate feedback. But when Marketing is
    > looking after future product direction and features and the companyís

    number
    > one priority is beating the competition, then customer concerns get lost.
    > Do you think the following conversation ever happened at Microsoft:



    Ed,

    Not to burst your bubble but have you gone to the "news.microsoft.com" news
    groups lately (i.e. within the past year). There are NGs for VB.NET as well
    as the rest of .NET in general (Framework, CLR, Interop, C#, etc....)

    Try pointing your news reader to this one:

    "microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.vb"

    There are also several VB.NET NGs in other languages if you are interested.
    I have found that MS devs and support personnel frequent the .NET NGs quite
    often and often listen and assist where they can.

    Cal



  3. #3
    Phil Weber Guest

    Re: Are Customers Microsoft's Number 1 Priority?

    > The material disclosed during their latest anti-thrust case...

    Ed: "Anti-thrust?" ;-)

    > You think that maybe this conversation would be different if
    > someone around the table from the VB User Community were
    > present and said something like: A lot of the developers really
    > like .Net but we have some serious concerns. Firstly, we have
    > a community of VB developers who have a migration problem
    > going from VB6 to .Net...


    That is *exactly* what happened. I was there. The VB MVPs Microsoft brought
    to Redmond last March said (almost verbatim) what you posted, and the .NET
    dev team responded with several changes in Beta 2 to make VB.NET somewhat
    more compatible with VB6. The team also assured us that we had not told them
    anything that they had not already considered, and that after having weighed
    matters carefully, they felt that they had good reasons for making the
    changes they did in VB.NET.

    At that point, what more could we do? The MVPs had done their best to convey
    the concerns of the VB community, and MS assured us that they understood
    them, but had decided that its vision of the future of VB was different from
    that of the MVPs. A few of the MVPs shifted their focus on what could be
    done in future versions (such as implementing edit-and-continue and the "Dim
    X As (Y To Z)" array syntax) to make VB.NET more appealing to "Classic" VB
    users. Others continued to stress the importance of backward compatibility,
    while still others grew silent, apparently throwing up their hands in
    disgust.

    Bottom line: MS is well aware of the concerns of the VB community, and is
    going to do with VB.NET what it thinks is best regardless. All we can do at
    this point is vote with our wallets.
    ---
    Phil Weber



  4. #4
    Mike Mitchell Guest

    Re: Are Customers Microsoft's Number 1 Priority?

    On Sat, 19 Jan 2002 22:05:37 -0800, "Phil Weber"
    <pweberonline@fawcette.com> wrote:

    > > The material disclosed during their latest anti-thrust case...


    Something introduced to rein in Bill Clinton's amorous fantasies?

    MM
    "Look, Barney, Spot, I can balance a pretzel on my tonsils...aaarggh."


  5. #5
    Kunle Odutola Guest

    Re: Are Customers Microsoft's Number 1 Priority?


    "Phil Weber" <pweberonline@fawcette.com> wrote in message
    news:3c4a4e96$1@147.208.176.211...

    > That is *exactly* what happened. I was there. The VB MVPs Microsoft

    brought
    > to Redmond last March said (almost verbatim) what you posted,


    *All* the MVPs were "against" VB.NET? They *all* wanted a VB7.NET?

    > At that point, what more could we do? The MVPs had done their best to

    convey
    > the concerns of the VB community, and MS assured us that they understood
    > them, but had decided that its vision of the future of VB was different

    from
    > that of the MVPs.


    I am happy that MS was brave enough to make the changes. I hope the code
    migration tools (last tried them in Beta 1/2) have improved too. But
    overall, VB.NET had to happen IMO. It happened almost too late too. C# is
    one **** of a language...

    > Others continued to stress the importance of backward compatibility,
    > while still others grew silent, apparently throwing up their hands in
    > disgust.


    > Bottom line: MS is well aware of the concerns of the VB community, and is
    > going to do with VB.NET what it thinks is best regardless. All we can do

    at
    > this point is vote with our wallets.


    Hasn't this always been the case?. How did we get to this situation when
    everything that MS did VB/BASIC in the past is revered and all it is doing
    today is villified?

    Wait.....wait....this is how things have always been. Remember
    QBASIC/PDS/VB-DOS/Windows? VB3/VB4?
    It always happen when the underlying platform changes. I'm OK now.

    Kunle



  6. #6
    Mark Hurd Guest

    Re: Are Customers Microsoft's Number 1 Priority?

    "Ed" <ed_raffin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:3c49a672$1@147.208.176.211...
    >
    > My number one concern is the customer is NOT Microsoft's number one

    priority.
    > The material disclosed during their latest anti-thrust case indicates that
    > Microsoft is obsessed with beating their competition. Microsoft is so

    focused
    > on their competition that they have lost or losing sight of their customers.
    >


    Many (or at least two) of Microsoft's competition is too obsessed with beating
    Microsoft.

    Regards,
    Mark Hurd, B.Sc.(Ma.) (Hons.)



  7. #7
    Mike Mitchell Guest

    Re: Are Customers Microsoft's Number 1 Priority?

    On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:09:16 +1030, "Mark Hurd"
    <markhurd@ozemail.com.au> wrote:

    >Many (or at least two) of Microsoft's competition is too obsessed with beating
    >Microsoft.
    >


    Oh? And do they have Conclusions in Law against them as well?

    MM

  8. #8
    Yair Alan Griver [MSFT] Guest

    Re: Are Customers Microsoft's Number 1 Priority?

    I just wanted to respond to your message.

    I wouldn't call what we're doing "throwing the VB community a bone". There
    is a concerted effort within MS to focus harder on community building and
    fostering the 2-way communication that is necessary. It's an ongoing
    process - we've had the MVP community for quite a while (I was one of them
    for years), there are also regular customer meetings.

    As part of these efforts, all the groups at MS (not just developer tools)
    are looking at how they can best work with the customer. Many of the groups
    are bringing in people from the community, like me, to focus on this effort
    and ensure that we're doing what we can.

    So, let's talk about what *I'm* doing right now. My time is being spent
    gathering information on who is doing what community efforts here so that we
    can begin coordinating them. I'm also collecting a group of ideas of what we
    can do better - and I plan on posting many of them for your votes on what
    the order of implementation should be.

    I am very gratified that I've been getting swamped with emails telling me
    exactly what I should be doing <g> - makes my life easier... <g>

    yag

    "Ed" <ed_raffin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:3c49a672$1@147.208.176.211...
    >
    > Reading the various postings, it is becoming clear that most participants
    > either love Microsoft or hate Microsoft and each side supports their

    position
    > with facts, antidotes, rumors, etc. As always the truth
    > is somewhere in the middle. Microsoft does make good products and

    Microsoft
    > needs to improve. This forum should be one where developers, customers,

    etc.
    > can voice their issues and concerns about what Microsoft does or doesn't
    > do with their product offerings.
    >
    > My number one concern is the customer is NOT Microsoft's number one

    priority.
    > The material disclosed during their latest anti-thrust case indicates that
    > Microsoft is obsessed with beating their competition. Microsoft is so

    focused
    > on their competition that they have lost or losing sight of their

    customers.
    >
    > Many of you will say, it isn't so. But let's look at the facts.
    >
    > 1. Microsoft doesn't have anything coming close to a User Group that most
    > other IT Companies have. Yes, these groups are bureaucratic and

    cumbersome.
    > But at least their is a formal mechanism for people to voice their

    concerns
    > and suggestions. The announcement of assigning YAG to the VB Product team
    > is Microsoft's reluctant way of agreeing with
    > this observation. However, what Microsoft has done with YAG is simply

    throwing
    > the VB Community a bone. Everyone should be able to agree that the VB.Net
    > strategy has some significant shortcomings. A VB User's forum would have
    > given Microsoft important and immediate feedback. But when Marketing is
    > looking after future product direction and features and the company's

    number
    > one priority is beating the competition, then customer concerns get lost.
    > Do you think the following conversation ever happened at Microsoft:
    >
    > MS Staff #1, We have to get VB onto the .Net bandwagon.
    >
    > MS Staff #2, That sounds like a good idea but there will be some

    migration
    > problems going from VB6 to .Net.
    >
    > MS Staff #1, Ya, that sounds like it may be a problem. But remember, we
    > need .Net to beat Java, Linux, Sun, Sony, etc. So, let's go. We're

    betting
    > the company on .Net. Besides what are the VBers going to do. Take their
    > code to Linux or Unix. Don't think so. Not an issue.
    >
    > You think that maybe this conversation would be different if someone

    around
    > the table from the VB User Community were present and said something like:
    >
    > A lot of the developers really like .Net but we have some serious

    concerns.
    > Firstly, we have a community of VB developers who have a migration

    problem
    > going from VB6 to .Net. Is there anything you can do to make this

    migration
    > smoother. Maybe you could support both versions for the time being until
    > you can provide the tools to make migration easier. Secondly, we have a
    > community of VB developers who want the product to remain easy to use.

    There
    > is no real desire for these developers to program enterprise applications.
    > What can you do to continue to make VB easy to use?
    >
    >
    > 2. For years, customers have been complaining about security.
    > Microsoft makes some token announcement but doesn't really do anything

    about
    > it. When your number one priority is
    > beating the competition, customer concerns are secondary. Finally, a

    Gartner
    > analyst announces that customers should not use Microsoft IIS for their

    Web
    > hosting platform because of it's serious security shortcomings.
    > What's the reaction? The Microsoft lovers say that the analyst doesn't

    know
    > what he is talking about. Security problems are simply a product of

    Microsoft's
    > success. Guess what. Bill Gates announces that Trustworthy Computing is
    > now Microsoft's Number 1 priority. What happen here? What happen to

    betting
    > the company on .Net? Well, suddenly
    > customers are hitting Microsoft over the head with a 2 by 4 and they're

    finally
    > listening to their customers.
    >
    >
    > The biggest problem with Microsoft today is that it is too obsessed with
    > beating down the competition. This is not to say that it should completely
    > ignore its competition. But it shouldn't be so obsessed that it is blind
    > to other aspects of its business such as its customers. Customers have

    every
    > right to voice their concerns about what their supplier is doing with its
    > products and services. I know that you can't satisfy everyone. But that
    > is what companies have to do; they have to balance their vision of the

    future
    > with their current and future customer's vision of the future. The closer
    > those two visions are the more successful the company. It is time for

    Microsoft
    > to put customers number one and make beating the competition number 2 or
    > 3 because if they satisfy their customers better than their competition,
    > then beating the competition takes care of itself. There are serious

    concerns
    > coming from the VB community. Writing these concerns off as rants from

    Microsoft
    > hater's is not doing justice to these concerns. If Microsoft is serious
    > about making the customer number 1, then they better start finding better
    > ways of getting customer feedback and addressing customer concerns. By

    the
    > way, listening to IT management and developers from Fortune 100 companies
    > is not my idea of listening to your customers.
    >
    >
    >




  9. #9
    Mike Mitchell Guest

    Re: Are Customers Microsoft's Number 1 Priority?

    On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 11:21:11 -0800, "Yair Alan Griver [MSFT]"
    <yag@microsoft.com> wrote:

    >I wouldn't call what we're doing "throwing the VB community a bone". There
    >is a concerted effort within MS to focus harder on community building and
    >fostering the 2-way communication that is necessary. It's an ongoing
    >process - we've had the MVP community for quite a while (I was one of them
    >for years), there are also regular customer meetings.


    Here's a thought: What will Microsoft do if VB.NET is largely ignored?
    Boycotted, even? Okay, so maybe a few thousand of the most stalwart
    evangelists -- you know, the ones with brains the size of gas trucks
    -- will be in their sleeping bags outside Redmond Towers on The Night
    of the Launch (cue weird Stephen King-like music), but I'm thinking of
    the huge numbers of VB users/programmers/occasional programmers who
    will slowly start to realise that the New Version is hardly anything
    like VB6, let alone VB1 through 5. So, what then, I wonder?

    Of course, you'll use the Microsoft billions to blanket advertise your
    way out of the "none today, thank you, Missah Bill, suh" scenario; but
    what then, I wonder? What if you can't GIVE the product away? What
    will Microsoft do if there is a huge mass protest, viz Coke, Pepsi, to
    Bring Back VB? What would three million programmers marching down One
    Hegemony Way need do in order to impress upon Microsoft that what
    they're doing with classic VB is crassly unfair? I mean, you're not
    even saying to those three million "Gee, thanks for sticking with us
    for ten years, but it's time to move on." All you seem to be implying
    is that the next version is the replacement and, with the conversion
    tool, everything will be hunky dory. I don't know 'bout America, but
    over here there are rules and laws about mispresenting the facts.

    So, I appreciate you've been handed a poisoned chalice, if it's your
    job to be cheerleader this month, but as long as you keep passing the
    good -- and bad -- feedback "upstairs", maybe His Billness will wake
    up one morning, cancel the entire .NET project as being not ready yet
    for his security/trustworthiness makeovers and then we can all go back
    to using the product we have been using, we want to keep on using, and
    that our clients know they can continue to depend upon, rather than
    have the Sword of Damocles hanging over it and them.

    ....and now, with those immortal words learned at the bosom of all
    protest (thanks, Karl),

    HTH!

    MM

  10. #10
    Kunle Odutola Guest

    Re: Are Customers Microsoft's Number 1 Priority?


    "Mike Mitchell" <kylix_is@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:3c4f40a7.11061492@news.devx.com...

    > >I wouldn't call what we're doing "throwing the VB community a bone".

    There
    > >is a concerted effort within MS to focus harder on community building and
    > >fostering the 2-way communication that is necessary. It's an ongoing
    > >process - we've had the MVP community for quite a while (I was one of

    them
    > >for years), there are also regular customer meetings.


    > Here's a thought: What will Microsoft do if VB.NET is largely ignored?


    You probbaly hope it will implement a parser for 100% VB6 syntax. Ever
    thought about doing it yourself?

    Kunle



  11. #11
    Zane Thomas Guest

    Re: Are Customers Microsoft's Number 1 Priority?

    On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 23:20:13 GMT, kylix_is@yahoo.co.uk (Mike Mitchell)
    wrote:

    >What will Microsoft do if VB.NET is largely ignored?


    I don't think that's the right question. The right question is: What
    will the rest of us do if VB.NET is largely ignored. Answer: We will own
    RAD for Windows five years from now and you will be working in some TV
    repair shop.


    --
    When freedom is outlawed
    only outlaws will be free.

  12. #12
    Yair Alan Griver [MSFT] Guest

    Re: Are Customers Microsoft's Number 1 Priority?

    I can't tell you what will happen if it's largely ignored because I don't
    think it will happen. I've developed systems using it. I've developed under
    BASIC in DOS all the way thru till now. I've debugged COBOL. I've developed
    with dBase, Clipper, Foxbase, FoxPro etc. Heck, I even worked on a COM-based
    app that included Delphi. <g>

    ..NET development is fun. More than that it shows a *ton* of promise. I'm
    here in this position not because I was forced to but because I volunteered.
    I was a consultant/speaker/author for 13 years. Sold my company. I was a CIO
    for a public company. I'm saying this to tell you where I come from. I'm
    financially secure, I've accomplished a lot of my goals. I was looking for a
    job where I could have fun, make a difference, and work with cool people. I
    get off on helping people grow. That's why I'm here.

    I'm not here as a cheerleader - I'm here to tell you what I really believe.
    To take your feedback and make sure that the input goes into the product. I
    can promise you that people hear what you say. I can't promise that you'll
    get what you want.

    Again, I really believe in .NET - I've seen it at work in shipping
    applications that I was involved with as a non-MS person. I also really
    believe in the promise of community. I think that the community has been
    wounded - and not only thru MS actions. I've complained about features and
    changes in products also. I've also realized when it's just getting
    repetitive. You're free to keep this up - I don't mind. I'd be reading your
    stuff even if I was still outside of MS - I enjoy people who are passionate
    and can write eloquently. I happen to be one of them <g>

    So, I'll stay here, listening, working with the product team to incorporate
    as much feedback as we can. Over the next few weeks I'll be coming back with
    ideas for ways we can all work more closely together - some will get
    ridiculed, some won't. Cool.

    yag


    "Mike Mitchell" <kylix_is@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:3c4f40a7.11061492@news.devx.com...
    > On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 11:21:11 -0800, "Yair Alan Griver [MSFT]"
    > <yag@microsoft.com> wrote:
    >
    > >I wouldn't call what we're doing "throwing the VB community a bone".

    There
    > >is a concerted effort within MS to focus harder on community building and
    > >fostering the 2-way communication that is necessary. It's an ongoing
    > >process - we've had the MVP community for quite a while (I was one of

    them
    > >for years), there are also regular customer meetings.

    >
    > Here's a thought: What will Microsoft do if VB.NET is largely ignored?
    > Boycotted, even? Okay, so maybe a few thousand of the most stalwart
    > evangelists -- you know, the ones with brains the size of gas trucks
    > -- will be in their sleeping bags outside Redmond Towers on The Night
    > of the Launch (cue weird Stephen King-like music), but I'm thinking of
    > the huge numbers of VB users/programmers/occasional programmers who
    > will slowly start to realise that the New Version is hardly anything
    > like VB6, let alone VB1 through 5. So, what then, I wonder?
    >
    > Of course, you'll use the Microsoft billions to blanket advertise your
    > way out of the "none today, thank you, Missah Bill, suh" scenario; but
    > what then, I wonder? What if you can't GIVE the product away? What
    > will Microsoft do if there is a huge mass protest, viz Coke, Pepsi, to
    > Bring Back VB? What would three million programmers marching down One
    > Hegemony Way need do in order to impress upon Microsoft that what
    > they're doing with classic VB is crassly unfair? I mean, you're not
    > even saying to those three million "Gee, thanks for sticking with us
    > for ten years, but it's time to move on." All you seem to be implying
    > is that the next version is the replacement and, with the conversion
    > tool, everything will be hunky dory. I don't know 'bout America, but
    > over here there are rules and laws about mispresenting the facts.
    >
    > So, I appreciate you've been handed a poisoned chalice, if it's your
    > job to be cheerleader this month, but as long as you keep passing the
    > good -- and bad -- feedback "upstairs", maybe His Billness will wake
    > up one morning, cancel the entire .NET project as being not ready yet
    > for his security/trustworthiness makeovers and then we can all go back
    > to using the product we have been using, we want to keep on using, and
    > that our clients know they can continue to depend upon, rather than
    > have the Sword of Damocles hanging over it and them.
    >
    > ...and now, with those immortal words learned at the bosom of all
    > protest (thanks, Karl),
    >
    > HTH!
    >
    > MM




  13. #13
    Ray Collins Guest

    Re: Are Customers Microsoft's Number 1 Priority?

    Since you didn't bother with a response to my post in the other thread I
    will post it (in part) again here.

    Here is a thought for you, stop giving so much weight to the opinions of the
    minority of VB programmers that hang out in newsgroups like this and ask the
    majority of registered users what they think about VB and what they use it
    for.

    I have been a registered user of VB since version 1 and never has Microsoft
    communicated with me except to tell me there was a new version and how much
    it would cost to keep up. In this day and age how much could it cost for M$
    to survey their registered users ? And having asked them maybe listen as
    well.

    I think it is a safe bet that what the majority of past/current VB
    programmers want is not the same as what the "high end"
    VB programmers that you love to talk to want.

    What are you going to do about talking to and listening to the majority of
    VB users ?




  14. #14
    Yair Alan Griver [MSFT] Guest

    Re: Are Customers Microsoft's Number 1 Priority?

    Well, I can't tell you what's been done so far, but I'm planning on doing
    the following:

    1. Hanging out in newsgroups and the web.
    2. Going to conferences and talking to people.
    3. Going to customers and talking to them.
    4. Going to User Groups and talking to people there.

    I'm also looking for various survey information that I know exists here
    somewhere (remember, I've been here 7 or so days so far). If I need to, I'll
    go further.

    But, I won't do all of it today. Or tomorrow. Though I have managed to get
    to a Seattle-based UG this week.

    btw, If we posit (as you did in a prior message) that there are 3 million VB
    users out there, for me to talk to the majority is impossible. Will there be
    a survey done? They're done all the time. FWIW, in the past 10 years, I was
    called twice. Just lucky I guess.

    Right now, I'm in planning/learning mode.

    yag

    "Ray Collins" <Ray.CollinsNoSpam@Bigpond.com> wrote in message
    news:3c4f5979@10.1.10.29...
    > Since you didn't bother with a response to my post in the other thread I
    > will post it (in part) again here.
    >
    > Here is a thought for you, stop giving so much weight to the opinions of

    the
    > minority of VB programmers that hang out in newsgroups like this and ask

    the
    > majority of registered users what they think about VB and what they use it
    > for.
    >
    > I have been a registered user of VB since version 1 and never has

    Microsoft
    > communicated with me except to tell me there was a new version and how

    much
    > it would cost to keep up. In this day and age how much could it cost for

    M$
    > to survey their registered users ? And having asked them maybe listen as
    > well.
    >
    > I think it is a safe bet that what the majority of past/current VB
    > programmers want is not the same as what the "high end"
    > VB programmers that you love to talk to want.
    >
    > What are you going to do about talking to and listening to the majority of
    > VB users ?
    >
    >
    >




  15. #15
    Rob Teixeira Guest

    Re: Are Customers Microsoft's Number 1 Priority?


    "Ray Collins" <Ray.CollinsNoSpam@Bigpond.com> wrote:
    >
    >Here is a thought for you, stop giving so much weight to the opinions of

    the
    >minority of VB programmers that hang out in newsgroups like this and ask

    the
    >majority of registered users what they think about VB and what they use

    it
    >for.
    >


    Interesting that both you and Karl seem to bring this point up, because my
    experience is quite the opposite. Aside from these online forums, I've yet
    to see a real-life VB programmer who hasn't adopted .NET. All the clients
    I'm currently working with are moving (quite happily and successfully I might
    add) to .NET.

    The problem is, who's judging "majority"?
    I certainly won't claim that a majority of VB users feel one way or the other.
    I highly doubt you, I, or anyone else in this forum has hard data to determine
    who the "majority" really is to begin with. You might "feel" you know who
    they are, but is that really fact?

    Having said that, I do agree with you that it would be a good idea for MS
    to interact more directly with the community.

    -Rob

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
HTML5 Development Center
 
 
FAQ
Latest Articles
Java
.NET
XML
Database
Enterprise
Questions? Contact us.
C++
Web Development
Wireless
Latest Tips
Open Source


   Development Centers

   -- Android Development Center
   -- Cloud Development Project Center
   -- HTML5 Development Center
   -- Windows Mobile Development Center