All this rhetoric is a little perplexing... - Page 26


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Thread: All this rhetoric is a little perplexing...

  1. #376
    Larry Serflaten Guest

    Re: All this rhetoric is a little perplexing...

    "Dan Barclay" <Dan@MVPs.org> wrote in message
    > >Do you actually exepect them to hold on to .Net for 3 or more versions
    > >as stipulated in B2? Your statements made late in 2001 could hardly be
    > >expected to be put into effect before then.

    >
    > Again I ask, have you even read the article? My understanding is that
    > the Terminate event cannot be replicated for platform reasons. Item
    > "A" under that heading reads:


    As I said, the whole list looks like dirty laundry. Not just 'Item A'.

    > Again the question: did you read it? See the "Factors affecting... "
    > section for the driving force of the stability needs.


    No, Dan I did not read the whole page, and you may not like the reason
    why, so I won't mention it here. I read the section you directed me
    to and scanned over the other main topics for anything else that might
    be interesting, which is how I saw your conclusion.

    LFS




  2. #377
    Patrick Troughton Guest

    Re: All this rhetoric is a little perplexing...


    When you look up Sub in your VB5 reference manual, is there a tip about using
    GoSub instead of Sub?

    /Pat

    "Patrick Troughton" <Patrick@Troughton.com> wrote:
    >
    >>By my own admission, which you have just misquoted,

    >
    >I couldn't have possibly have misquoted because I didn't quote to begin

    with.
    >Learn to read.
    >
    >> I indicated that
    >>the tip says "may provide". Also, it is a tip, not a rule. Also, you
    >>could possibly guess (on second thoughts, I'll retract that
    >>possibility) that if they had wanted to put people off using it, then
    >>right under the GoSub...Return subheading they'd have written
    >>something like: "Do not use GoSub...Return. This syntax has been
    >>superseded by procedures and functions."
    >>
    >>But they didn't.
    >>

    >
    >Why do you need someone to spell it out for you? Can't you figure it out
    >on your own? I did. Thousands (millions?) of other programmers did, too.
    >Learn to think for yourself.
    >
    >/Pat
    >



  3. #378
    Patrick Troughton Guest

    Re: All this rhetoric is a little perplexing...


    kylix_is@yahoo.co.uk (Mike Mitchell) wrote:
    >On 7 Mar 2002 12:42:57 -0800, "Patrick Troughton"
    ><Patrick@Troughton.com> wrote:
    >
    >>Why do you need someone to spell it out for you? Can't you figure it out
    >>on your own? I did. Thousands (millions?) of other programmers did, too.

    >
    >Oh, so thousands (millions?) of other programmers read that
    >description of GoSub...Return and immediately translated it to mean:
    >"Avoid this at all costs"?


    Not necessarily. Perhaps they read Visual Basic Programmer's Journal....

    <QUOTE>
    Old,interpreted dialects of BASIC not only encouraged the use of spaghetti
    coding, but in many cases, mandated the practice...BASIC was almost a write-only
    language. In the old days, this was good code:

    2435 FORI=STTOEN:IFC>DTHENX2=W/DI:NEXTELSEN=NF:
    GOSUB5512:NEXT

    Man, pass me the tomato sauce! And that was hardly the worst of it. All variables
    were global. Every line had a number, and was addressable only by that number.
    Quick: What does GOSUB 4210 say to you? and real procedures didnít exist,
    other than a single-line DEF FN
    that didnít help a lot.
    </QUOTE>

    Or perhaps they read Bruce McKinney.....

    <QUOTE>
    Gosub was useful in the bad old days when all variables were global and Select
    Case didn't exist. But why Gosub, Return and On Gosub remain in Visual Basic
    is beyond me. Perhaps they were left in for compatibility of some kind, although
    I find it hard to imagine a procedure using these statements that one could
    easily port from an earlier Basic.
    </QUOTE>

    But to be honest, anyone who understands how GoSub works should be able to
    figure out on their own that GoSub is obsolete and unstructured.

    If all that's not true, then tell us, what do *you* think is the real reason
    why hardly anyone uses GoSub anymore???

    /Pat

  4. #379
    Patrick Troughton Guest

    Re: All this rhetoric is a little perplexing...


    BTW, I don't think you ever answered my question....Why do you need someone
    to spell it out for you? Couldn't you figure this out on your own?

    /Pat

    "Patrick Troughton" <Patrick@Troughton.com> wrote:
    >
    >>By my own admission, which you have just misquoted,

    >
    >I couldn't have possibly have misquoted because I didn't quote to begin

    with.
    >Learn to read.
    >
    >> I indicated that
    >>the tip says "may provide". Also, it is a tip, not a rule. Also, you
    >>could possibly guess (on second thoughts, I'll retract that
    >>possibility) that if they had wanted to put people off using it, then
    >>right under the GoSub...Return subheading they'd have written
    >>something like: "Do not use GoSub...Return. This syntax has been
    >>superseded by procedures and functions."
    >>
    >>But they didn't.
    >>

    >
    >Why do you need someone to spell it out for you? Can't you figure it out
    >on your own? I did. Thousands (millions?) of other programmers did, too.
    >Learn to think for yourself.
    >
    >/Pat
    >



  5. #380
    Kunle Odutola Guest

    Re: All this rhetoric is a little perplexing...


    "Dan Barclay" <Dan@MVPs.org> wrote in message
    news:c0bi8uktped2r5npacfpqprf5ofu77eknl@4ax.com...
    > On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:43:51 -0800, "Jonathan Allen"
    > <greywolfghost@cox.net> wrote:
    >
    > >> One's here already. Delphi.NET is on the way....and there *will* be
    > >> changes/breakages.

    > >
    > >Link please.

    >
    > www.borland.com check the press releases (12 Feb 02) for Borland's
    > announcement. No announcement on changes/breakages <g>.


    We'll revisit this lil' issue when Delphi.NET eventually appears ;-)

    Kunle



  6. #381
    Tim Overbay Guest

    Re: All this rhetoric is a little perplexing...

    LOL. I did that too. I f****ing hated that job but it did turn me into quite
    a numeric keypad artist.

    Tim

    "Jonathan Allen" <greywolfghost@cox.net> wrote in message
    news:3c880798$1@10.1.10.29...
    > > Oh? You can type 8 pairs of three-digit numbers into a calculator in 5
    > > seconds?

    >
    > Yes, but then again I have been trained. I worked for an inventory company
    > for a while, in which I would enter prices and quantities into a glorified
    > calculator hanging at my side.
    >
    > --
    > Jonathan Allen
    >
    >
    > "Mark Jerde" <mark.jerde@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
    > news:VA.000000a2.0aef66a7@nospamverizon.net...
    > > Jonathan,
    > >
    > > > That was then, this is now. With a modern calculator, I can do that in

    > about
    > > > 5 seconds.

    > >
    > > Oh? You can type 8 pairs of three-digit numbers into a calculator in 5
    > > seconds?
    > >
    > > Mark Jerde
    > > Biometrics - www.idtechpartners.com
    > >
    > >

    >
    >




  7. #382
    Richard Dalton . Guest

    Re: All this rhetoric is a little perplexing...


    "Christopher P. Kile" <christopher155@comcast.net> wrote:

    >Of course, it does not force me to write bad code. It allows the coder


    >two cubes over to write bad code that I might have to maintain. To me,
    >that is a legitimate reason to be glad when a bad feature is removed from
    >a language.


    Is the language feature really what's causing the person two cubes over to

    write bad code? Or is it a lack of code reviews, a lack of mentoring
    of junior programmers by more experienced programmers. If a programmer
    is producing bad code, don't tell him/her not to use GOSUB. Give him/her
    a copy of Code Complete. Bad Code can be written in any language and
    changing the language has never been the solution.


    >Very, very few people in this industry have the luxury to build and >maintain

    their own code base.

    If the quality of the code around you is a problem I'd suggest the
    Fix Your Own Bugs approach. Good programmers produce less bugs
    and so tend to get to write more new code. Poorer programmers spend
    more time fixing their own code than writing new code.

    The feedback loop has two effects. New Code tends to be better. Bad
    Coders tend to quit, or figure out how to become good coders.

    I know we don't all get to maintain our own code, but when faced with
    bad code, I've never once blamed the language. Never once.

    But anyway, a .net Board isn't the place for this. These people have
    pointless religous arguments to have, and interesting stuff like this
    probably just gets in the way.

    -Richard


  8. #383
    John Butler Guest

    Re: All this rhetoric is a little perplexing...


    "Mark Jerde" <mark.jerde@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
    news:VA.000000a6.00cf420d@nospamverizon.net...
    > I suppose that's true if you're looking at just the syntax,
    > A = A + 1



    hmmm, that should be A += 1

    <grin>

    rgds
    John Butler




  9. #384
    Jason Kaczor Guest

    Re: All this rhetoric is a little perplexing...


    "John Butler" <nospamjrbutler@btinternet.com> wrote:
    >
    >"Mark Jerde" <mark.jerde@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
    >news:VA.000000a6.00cf420d@nospamverizon.net...
    >> I suppose that's true if you're looking at just the syntax,
    >> A = A + 1

    >
    >
    >hmmm, that should be A += 1


    nope:

    A += 1;

    ><grin>


    Regards
    Jason Kaczor

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