Edit and Continue to Return


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Thread: Edit and Continue to Return

  1. #1
    Patrick Troughton Guest

    Edit and Continue to Return


    We've all heard rumors to this effect, but this might be the first official
    confirmation from Microsoft that .NET will support edit and continue in the
    next version.....

    <QUOTE>
    [David]Treadwell and [Anders] Hejlsberg promised that the oft-requested "Edit-and-Continue"
    feature will be in "the next major version of the framework." Further, by
    integrating the capability at the platform level into the debugger, edit-and-continue
    will be available not only to VB.NET, but to any .NET language that cares
    to take advantage of it. Don't expect this to appear as an upgrade to the
    current version, but Treadwell said that it was a "primary goal" to add edit-and-continue
    to the next version.
    </QUOTE>

    http://www.devx.com/free/hotlinks/2002/ednote021302.asp

    /Pat

  2. #2
    Ray Collins Guest

    Re: Edit and Continue to Return

    Wow,
    what a deal, I can pay for their Version 1 attempt that they rushed out the
    door, then I can pay again for the next version to get back something that I
    had years before.

    They wouldn't want to fix it in a service pack or point release because then
    I wouldn't pay for it. :-)
    Hmm, I bet they are thinking it's about time to change that model too.

    Something about M$ and taking 3 versions to get anything right, yet another
    reason to sit back and wait.

    "Patrick Troughton" <Patrick@Troughton.com> wrote in message
    news:3c6deb04$1@10.1.10.29...
    >
    > We've all heard rumors to this effect, but this might be the first

    official
    > confirmation from Microsoft that .NET will support edit and continue in

    the
    > next version.....
    >
    > <QUOTE>
    > [David]Treadwell and [Anders] Hejlsberg promised that the oft-requested

    "Edit-and-Continue"
    > feature will be in "the next major version of the framework." Further, by
    > integrating the capability at the platform level into the debugger,

    edit-and-continue
    > will be available not only to VB.NET, but to any .NET language that cares
    > to take advantage of it. Don't expect this to appear as an upgrade to the
    > current version, but Treadwell said that it was a "primary goal" to add

    edit-and-continue
    > to the next version.
    > </QUOTE>
    >
    > http://www.devx.com/free/hotlinks/2002/ednote021302.asp
    >
    > /Pat




  3. #3
    Phil Weber Guest

    Re: Edit and Continue to Return

    > Wow, what a deal, I can pay for their Version 1 attempt that
    > they rushed out the door, then I can pay again for the next
    > version to get back something that I had years before.


    Ray: Or you can skip version 1 (no charge) and wait for a version that meets
    your needs.
    ---
    Phil Weber



  4. #4
    Ray Collins Guest

    Re: Edit and Continue to Return

    As I said, yet another reason to sit back and wait.

    I wonder how many suckers will by the thing 'cause it says it's VB and then
    be disappointed ?
    Maybe they should put a warning on the side of the box, something like "any
    resemblance to Microsoft Visual Basic is purely coincidental"
    :-)

    > Ray: Or you can skip version 1 (no charge) and wait for a version that

    meets
    > your needs.
    > ---
    > Phil Weber





  5. #5
    Patrick Troughton Guest

    Re: Edit and Continue to Return


    Let's put this in perspective....you complain when there is no edit and continue.
    Microsoft announces that edit and continue will return in the next version,
    which should have been good news, you still find a reason to complain. Does
    the term "gratuitous whining" mean anything to you?

    /Pat

    "Ray Collins" <Ray.CollinsNoSpam@Bigpond.com> wrote:
    >Wow,
    >what a deal, I can pay for their Version 1 attempt that they rushed out

    the
    >door, then I can pay again for the next version to get back something that

    I
    >had years before.
    >
    >They wouldn't want to fix it in a service pack or point release because

    then
    >I wouldn't pay for it. :-)
    >Hmm, I bet they are thinking it's about time to change that model too.
    >
    >Something about M$ and taking 3 versions to get anything right, yet another
    >reason to sit back and wait.
    >
    >"Patrick Troughton" <Patrick@Troughton.com> wrote in message
    >news:3c6deb04$1@10.1.10.29...
    >>
    >> We've all heard rumors to this effect, but this might be the first

    >official
    >> confirmation from Microsoft that .NET will support edit and continue in

    >the
    >> next version.....
    >>
    >> <QUOTE>
    >> [David]Treadwell and [Anders] Hejlsberg promised that the oft-requested

    >"Edit-and-Continue"
    >> feature will be in "the next major version of the framework." Further,

    by
    >> integrating the capability at the platform level into the debugger,

    >edit-and-continue
    >> will be available not only to VB.NET, but to any .NET language that cares
    >> to take advantage of it. Don't expect this to appear as an upgrade to

    the
    >> current version, but Treadwell said that it was a "primary goal" to add

    >edit-and-continue
    >> to the next version.
    >> </QUOTE>
    >>
    >> http://www.devx.com/free/hotlinks/2002/ednote021302.asp
    >>
    >> /Pat

    >
    >



  6. #6
    Ray Collins Guest

    Re: Edit and Continue to Return

    Nope.

    How about the terms "money grabbing" and profiteering ?
    Seems to be a case of rush something out to the suckers to keep the money
    coming in and fix it later.

    and we all know that M$ is struggling and needs the cash flow. ;-)

    "Patrick Troughton" <Patrick@Troughton.com> wrote in message
    news:3c6e6caa$1@10.1.10.29...
    >
    > Let's put this in perspective....you complain when there is no edit and

    continue.
    > Microsoft announces that edit and continue will return in the next

    version,
    > which should have been good news, you still find a reason to complain.

    Does
    > the term "gratuitous whining" mean anything to you?
    >
    > /Pat
    >
    > "Ray Collins" <Ray.CollinsNoSpam@Bigpond.com> wrote:
    > >Wow,
    > >what a deal, I can pay for their Version 1 attempt that they rushed out

    > the
    > >door, then I can pay again for the next version to get back something

    that
    > I
    > >had years before.
    > >
    > >They wouldn't want to fix it in a service pack or point release because

    > then
    > >I wouldn't pay for it. :-)
    > >Hmm, I bet they are thinking it's about time to change that model too.
    > >
    > >Something about M$ and taking 3 versions to get anything right, yet

    another
    > >reason to sit back and wait.
    > >
    > >"Patrick Troughton" <Patrick@Troughton.com> wrote in message
    > >news:3c6deb04$1@10.1.10.29...
    > >>
    > >> We've all heard rumors to this effect, but this might be the first

    > >official
    > >> confirmation from Microsoft that .NET will support edit and continue in

    > >the
    > >> next version.....
    > >>
    > >> <QUOTE>
    > >> [David]Treadwell and [Anders] Hejlsberg promised that the oft-requested

    > >"Edit-and-Continue"
    > >> feature will be in "the next major version of the framework." Further,

    > by
    > >> integrating the capability at the platform level into the debugger,

    > >edit-and-continue
    > >> will be available not only to VB.NET, but to any .NET language that

    cares
    > >> to take advantage of it. Don't expect this to appear as an upgrade to

    > the
    > >> current version, but Treadwell said that it was a "primary goal" to add

    > >edit-and-continue
    > >> to the next version.
    > >> </QUOTE>
    > >>
    > >> http://www.devx.com/free/hotlinks/2002/ednote021302.asp
    > >>
    > >> /Pat

    > >
    > >

    >




  7. #7
    Robert Scoble Guest

    Re: Edit and Continue to Return

    > Nope.
    > How about the terms "money grabbing" and profiteering ?
    > Seems to be a case of rush something out to the suckers to keep the money
    > coming in and fix it later.
    > and we all know that M$ is struggling and needs the cash flow. ;-)


    I work at a software company many times smaller than Microsoft and we've had
    to make many of the same tradeoffs when developing our products.

    We're a business. If we don't ship our software we go out of business.

    Now, Microsoft has tons of resources that I don't have, but at the end of
    the day their goals are the same as mine. Make a profit. Stay in business.

    Microsoft hasn't shipped a new Visual Studio in three years. That's a year
    longer than their average. It sure doesn't sound like they rushed anything
    out to make a "quick buck." (And, I know a few of the folks in the Visual
    Studio team and Microsoft never has made much money off of its development
    tools).

    Hey, if Visual Studio.NET doesn't fit your needs, find something that does.

    I'm getting so tired of people just taking cheap pot shots at companies who
    are trying to do their best. I'll be the first to throw stones at Microsoft
    when deserved, but in this case I don't see the evidence that warrants the
    stone throwing.

    I guess what I'm saying is "let those without sin cast the first stones."

    Or, are you a laid off Enron worker who just needs to vent against
    something?

    Robert Scoble

    ###



  8. #8
    Ray Collins Guest

    Re: Edit and Continue to Return

    Nope again,
    Just your average consumer in a tight economy, seeing signs of it worsening,
    and sick off the entire software industry.
    Name one other industry that gets away with treating the consumer the way it
    does ?

    "Robert Scoble" <scoble@userland.com> wrote in message
    news:3c6eca22$1@10.1.10.29...
    > > Nope.
    > > How about the terms "money grabbing" and profiteering ?
    > > Seems to be a case of rush something out to the suckers to keep the

    money
    > > coming in and fix it later.
    > > and we all know that M$ is struggling and needs the cash flow. ;-)

    >
    > I work at a software company many times smaller than Microsoft and we've

    had
    > to make many of the same tradeoffs when developing our products.
    >
    > We're a business. If we don't ship our software we go out of business.
    >
    > Now, Microsoft has tons of resources that I don't have, but at the end of
    > the day their goals are the same as mine. Make a profit. Stay in business.
    >
    > Microsoft hasn't shipped a new Visual Studio in three years. That's a year
    > longer than their average. It sure doesn't sound like they rushed anything
    > out to make a "quick buck." (And, I know a few of the folks in the Visual
    > Studio team and Microsoft never has made much money off of its development
    > tools).
    >
    > Hey, if Visual Studio.NET doesn't fit your needs, find something that

    does.
    >
    > I'm getting so tired of people just taking cheap pot shots at companies

    who
    > are trying to do their best. I'll be the first to throw stones at

    Microsoft
    > when deserved, but in this case I don't see the evidence that warrants the
    > stone throwing.
    >
    > I guess what I'm saying is "let those without sin cast the first stones."
    >
    > Or, are you a laid off Enron worker who just needs to vent against
    > something?
    >
    > Robert Scoble
    >
    > ###
    >
    >




  9. #9
    Patrick Meader Guest

    Re: Edit and Continue to Return

    Hi Ray:

    >>Nope again,<<


    Robert answered your objection that MS rushed VS.NET out the door by
    pointing out that it took MS three years to get VS.NET out the door. If you
    want to convince others (me anyway) that it was a rush for money, you need a
    counterargument that addresses Robert's point, not a restatement of your
    original premise.

    >>Name one other industry that gets away with treating the consumer the way

    it
    does ?<<

    By industry, do you mean the tech industry? And what/who does "it" refer to
    in the latter part of your sentence? I might offer an answer--assuming I'm
    interpreting your question correctly--but am not confident I understand what
    you're asking.

    pat




  10. #10
    Robert Scoble Guest

    Re: Edit and Continue to Return

    > Just your average consumer in a tight economy, seeing signs of it
    worsening,
    > and sick off the entire software industry.
    > Name one other industry that gets away with treating the consumer the way

    it
    > does ?


    You mean, name one other industry that has -- in just 25 years -- completely
    changed the way I live, work, and play (for the better, IMO)?

    Nah, I can't name one either.

    Robert Scoble

    ###




  11. #11
    Robert Scoble Guest

    Re: Edit and Continue to Return

    > Just your average consumer in a tight economy,
    > seeing signs of it worsening and sick off the
    > entire software industry.


    By the way, you are definitely not paying attention to the right signs. Here
    in Silicon Valley things are definitely improving. Slowly, yes, but
    improving. Just look at the latest Cisco numbers. Or NVidia's parking lot
    (which is full even at 3 a.m.). Apple is hiring.

    Even the conference business seems to have stableized and is showing signs
    of a rebound. VSLIVE had 3500 people at the .NET intro on Wednesday.
    InfoWorld sold out its Web Services conference. Pop!Tech sold out its fall
    conference (just a few weeks after the 9/11 stuff).

    And, if things are really all that dire, why do we have so much traffic in
    Silicon Valley?

    Robert Scoble

    ###



  12. #12
    Mike Mitchell Guest

    Re: Edit and Continue to Return

    On Sun, 17 Feb 2002 08:42:29 +1100, "Ray Collins"
    <Ray.CollinsNoSpam@Bigpond.com> wrote:

    >Nope again,
    >Just your average consumer in a tight economy, seeing signs of it worsening,
    >and sick off the entire software industry.
    >Name one other industry that gets away with treating the consumer the way it
    >does ?


    You're right. And that's because there is *no* competition. Someone
    pointed out recently the wording of most EULAs where the producer
    absolves himself of all responsibility in the case of defects. There
    *is* no other line of business that gets away with it! Period. But
    without competition and with businesses to run, what can Corporate
    America or The World, Inc do about it?

    For starters, they could try providing a level playing field and
    getting rid of enronitis. The US Fifth Amendment sure has a lot to
    answer for, if only it wouldn't stay stumm on so many things. Here,
    we'd just keep tickling them until they'd *want* to spill the beans.

    MM

  13. #13
    Mike Mitchell Guest

    Re: Edit and Continue to Return

    On Sat, 16 Feb 2002 14:25:30 -0800, "Robert Scoble"
    <scoble@userland.com> wrote:

    >You mean, name one other industry that has -- in just 25 years -- completely
    >changed the way I live, work, and play (for the better, IMO)?


    For you, maybe. But not for the millions of ordinary citizens. Their
    lives, if anything, have been made worse by computers. Computers have
    caused literally millions of job losses over the last 25 years.
    Nowadays whenever you need to speak to your bank, your pension
    provider, your local authority, your shopping outlet, you never get to
    speak to a person when you ring up, but have to go through
    interminable auto-answering devices. If you send e-mails, you'll be
    lucky to get a reply because everyone thinks they're just spam.
    Computers cost all of us a huge amount of money that could be spent on
    other things. And most home consumers don't even need a computer! They
    just want to play games and surf the internet. They used to play
    Monopoly (some still do...) and join a local club. People actually
    spoke to each other once!

    So, yes, for you, maybe, your world has been changed fundamentally in
    just 25 years, but whether it's really for the better, I think you
    should ask your spouse and kids and friends if that is *really* the
    case. Think of all the bedrooms across the nation with 12-year-old
    kids hunched over their computers instead of playing outside in the
    fields as we all used to do, then ask yourself, why? What is the
    benefit they're getting? Is their childhood provided through a wall
    outlet now? Imagine what would happen if God took away your computer
    today: It'd be like giving up smoking, wouldn't it? Hard to begin
    with, but gets easier after a week or so.

    >Nah, I can't name one either.


    That's because you haven't thought it through yet.

    MM

  14. #14
    Mike Mitchell Guest

    Re: Edit and Continue to Return

    On Sat, 16 Feb 2002 14:29:44 -0800, "Robert Scoble"
    <scoble@userland.com> wrote:

    >And, if things are really all that dire, why do we have so much traffic in
    >Silicon Valley?


    Lousy public transportation schemes? Perhaps those rich companies you
    imply are working at 3 a.m. should pay more tax so that the
    authorities could afford to do more towards providing decent mass
    transit systems. Of course, that would mean a slight modification of
    the greed gene. And it would benefit ordinary citizens, not all of
    whom work in computing, surprise, surprise.

    MM

  15. #15
    Kathleen \(MS MVP\) Guest

    Re: Edit and Continue to Return

    > We've all heard rumors to this effect, but this might be the first
    official
    > confirmation from Microsoft that .NET will support edit and continue in

    the
    > next version.....


    Mike Iem repeated this at Midnight Madness at VSLive. It seems they have
    made an announcement, even if this feature did not get the fanfare (coming
    out almost on top of the official launch) that it probably deserved.

    Kathleen



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