Re: Do consumers even want web services?

[John]

> > >> I made the statement that Web Services is not revolutionary. I just
> find
> > >it
> > >> ridiculous how very few people have the ability to view the
> requirements
> > >of
> > >> a project and select the appropriate solution.
> > >
> > >Kettle. Pot. Black. Calling.
> >
> > wrong. Actually I'm currently developing an EAI solution using MS...b/c
> > I felt as though that is what the requirements dictated.
>
> Do you "have the ability to view the requirements of a project and select
> the appropriate solution." And, no, just because you selected MS does not
> mean that you have it. Or perhaps what you meant was that you are one of
the
> elite that have the ability and, pretty much everyone else don't?

uuhhhh...yes. Happy?

Quite frankly I'm very tired of this thread. You don't seem to understand
my point (everything has a strength, MS is not the only answer...and I was
using Java as an example), and perhaps I'm missing yours as well...so I
suppose that means we are at an impasse.

[Kunle Odutola]

"John" <@> wrote in message news:3c9fb1c3@10.1.10.29...
> > This is the standard [bullshit] Sun party line but feel free to prove me
> > wrong: Under what circumstances would you use anything else except Java?
>
> done it...and don't feel the need or inclination to prove it to you.

Thought so.

> There are various reasons to use MS for a project. For my current project
> the main reasons are: low number of transactions (1-2 / second at a
> max).

Yes. We all know how MS systems can't handle more than 1-2 transactions per
second don't we.

http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_perf_results.asp
http://www.tpc.org/tpcw/results/tpcw_perf_results.asp

Kunle

[John]

> > done it...and don't feel the need or inclination to prove it to you.
>
> Thought so.

Just out of curiousity, how would I prove it to you? Pass the source? Give
a detailed explanation of what I did?
To get a new client up and running took an average of less than 3 man days
(disregarding the obvious preparation on their side).

>
> > There are various reasons to use MS for a project. For my current
project
> > the main reasons are: low number of transactions (1-2 / second at a
> > max).
>
> Yes. We all know how MS systems can't handle more than 1-2 transactions
per
> second don't we.
>
> http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_perf_results.asp
> http://www.tpc.org/tpcw/results/tpcw_perf_results.asp

Hhmmm...you left off the most important part, which I find typical in your
posts... Take the whole message, not bits and pieces to craft your own
message. Here is my original post:

<EXCERPT>
There are various reasons to use MS for a project. For my current project
the main reasons are: low number of transactions (1-2 / second at a
max)...so Biztalk is acceptable, they are a MS shop, and the systems they
willl interact with will be MS.
</EXCERPT>

So the $64 question is what did you leave out? Do some investigation of the
part that you left out and then let me know where that product ranks.

-John

[Kunle Odutola]

"John" <@> wrote in message news:3c9fefb2@10.1.10.29...

John,

Ever used Datagate?

Kunle

[John]

> Ever used Datagate?

No. Will look into it. What's the skinny?

[Mike Mitchell]

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:52:59 -0500, "John" <@> wrote:

>Quite frankly I'm very tired of this thread. You don't seem to understand
>my point (everything has a strength, MS is not the only answer...and I was
>using Java as an example), and perhaps I'm missing yours as well...so I
>suppose that means we are at an impasse.

Perhaps you need me here to head Kunle off at the impasse...

....this way! Look, MS are holding a clambake! Ooh, octopus! So many
tentacles!

MM

[John Butler]

"John" <@> wrote in message news:3c9e8fca@10.1.10.29...
> > In the meantime, if you must run on Unix, you can always take the extra
> time
> > to develop your stuff with Java, if you don't care about time to market.
>
> versus what!?!? C, C++, etc.???? Have you ever developed with Java? I
> don't think that it's any more time consuming than C#...and certainly less
> than VC++. Believe it or not, but MS does NOT run many enterprise
> applications... The big boys ARE ON Unix or similar platforms.

<Quote>Finally, the complexity of Java itself continues to be a problem. To
go beyond highly technical programmers and reach mainstream developers,
analysts say Java software makers have to follow Microsoft's lead in
easy-to-use programming tools that allow people to build programs simply by
pointing and clicking. In particular, they criticize a standard technology
called Enterprise Java Beans, which is actually supposed to save time by
allowing small pieces of software to be reused. </Quote>

Full link at: http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104-868573.html

(and there are positive points about Java at the link too...)

rgds
John Butler

[Mike Mitchell]

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 23:57:32 -0000, "John Butler"
<nospamjrbutler@btinternet.com> wrote:

><Quote>Finally, the complexity of Java itself continues to be a problem. To
>go beyond highly technical programmers and reach mainstream developers,
>analysts say Java software makers have to follow Microsoft's lead in
>easy-to-use programming tools that allow people to build programs simply by
>pointing and clicking. In particular, they criticize a standard technology
>called Enterprise Java Beans, which is actually supposed to save time by
>allowing small pieces of software to be reused. </Quote>
>
>Full link at: http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104-868573.html
>
>(and there are positive points about Java at the link too...)

If people have recognised the complexity of Java, and C# is,
basically, a rewrite of Java, is C# any more or less complex? I mean,
what do I get for my money? With Java's complexity, at least I can
utilise what I learned on numerous (all!) platforms, so it's kind of
an impetus to using Java I would think.

MM

[Kunle Odutola]

"Mike Mitchell" <kylix_is@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3ca1a9a1.1395680@news.devx.com...

> If people have recognised the complexity of Java, and C# is,
> basically, a rewrite of Java, is C# any more or less complex?

C# the language borrows one (non-exclusive) idea from C++ and Java - based
your syntax on C. It might even borrow more ideas from Delphi than Java ;-)

The .NET platform's API has many similarities to Java's API. Not surprising
given MS's excellent work on the MSJVM, J++.

> I mean,
> what do I get for my money? With Java's complexity, at least I can
> utilise what I learned on numerous (all!) platforms, so it's kind of
> an impetus to using Java I would think.

Rotor is out. The assault on Java's available-on-many-OSes advantage is on!.
;-)
I still like jBoss and ANTLR though......

Kunle