Pat's examples


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Thread: Pat's examples

  1. #1
    MMFAN Guest

    Pat's examples


    Okay let's hit your points one at a time then.

    In your textbox example you used the textbox object from the framework.
    The .Net libraires are just rip offs of the Java libraries. I will admit
    they are cleaner though. MS clearly saw the wisdom in the Java approach
    which is why they did away with COM, which until .Net they had touted as
    superior. Rember Activate the internet with ActiveX controls from 96? Controls
    in .Net had better be easier to use and extend than traditional COM programming
    or no one would even consider using them. Also, to actually do something
    with your extended textbox control is entirely another matter.

    Since MS did away with COM the clear winners were the ones bright enough
    to embrace The Java platform before MS "embraced and extended" it into the
    .Net framework.

    Back to Phil's point about hacks not being able to pick up .Net and your
    most recent dialog example. You've heard from beginners in this group brave
    enough to come forward and tell you that they don't think VB.Net is as simple
    to get started with as VB6. That should be more than enough evidence.

    I'll gladly name off books and periodicals that say point blank, that there
    is a steep learning curve in understanding the .Net framework. Here is a
    short list.

    http://www.newtechusa.com/UserSectio...ngVBDotNet.asp
    http://www.infoworld.com/articles/pl...729plvbdev.xml
    http://dotnet.oreilly.com/news/vbnet_0801.html
    http://www.newtechusa.com/Viewpoints/VBDotNetEffect.asp

    For the most part the above articles are non biased, but they all state the
    same thing... There is a steep learning curve involved in learning and thus
    using VB.Net.

    By your argument, a newbie developer has as good a chance at any of us at
    mastering the use of VB. That is laughable.

    Notice... not one harsh word about you and I did not attempt to generalize
    you or insult you.

    I encourage all .Netters to flame all they want. I'm not going anywhere.
    I have a lot to say and time between projects to say it. This discussion
    group is great.

    "Patrick Troughton" <Patrick@Troughton.com> wrote:
    >
    >"MMFAN" <mmf@mmf.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>I don't know too many beginners that start out creating controls. Do you?
    >>

    >
    >I know how you .NOTters like to twist words around after the fact so let
    >me correct you here and now. Yesterday's user control example was about

    ease
    >of use *in general*. Today's file open dialog example was about ease of

    use
    >for beginners. You're mixing up two completely different examples. Yes,

    they
    >both showed that VB.NET is easier than VB6 but they were aimed at two different
    >audiences...intermediate and advanced programmers who write user controls...and
    >using a file open dialog for beginners. Please don't put words in our mouths.
    >Thank you.
    >
    >/Pat



  2. #2
    Patrick Troughton Guest

    Re: Pat's examples


    "MMFAN" <mmf@mmf.org> wrote:
    >You've heard from beginners in this group brave
    >enough to come forward and tell you that they don't think VB.Net is as simple
    >to get started with as VB6.


    If you're referring to Michael Bennet, he said he was a beginner at VB.NET,
    not a beginner at programming. You're not going to win any converts by lying.

    /Pa

  3. #3
    Zane Thomas Guest

    Re: Pat's examples

    On 7 Aug 2002 20:36:23 -0700, "MMFAN" <mmf@mmf.org> wrote:

    >I have a lot to say and time between projects to say it.


    Heh.


    --

    *--------={ Fine Art for .NET }=--------*
    | .Net Components @ www.abderaware.com |
    *---------------------------------------*

    Turn on, tune in, download.
    zane a@t abderaware.com

  4. #4
    Patrick Troughton Guest

    Re: Pat's examples


    "MMFAN" <mmf@mmf.org> wrote:
    >
    >Okay let's hit your points one at a time then.


    Great. I would love for you to do exactly that. Let's get started then. In
    my first example, I showed you how creating user controls is much easier
    in VB.NET....

    http://news.devx.com/cgi-bin/dnewswe...em=44342&utag=

    I would love to hear you explain why you think thousands of lines of VB6
    code is easier than one line of VB.NET code.

    My second example wasn't quite as dramatic, but it clearly showed that displaying
    a file open dialog is more intuitive in VB.NET....

    http://news.devx.com/cgi-bin/dnewswe...em=44447&utag=

    Please explain why you think all the extra loops required in VB6 makes things
    easier.

    Go ahead and address my points. Take as much time as you need.

    /Pat

  5. #5
    Mike Mitchell Guest

    Re: Pat's examples

    On Thu, 08 Aug 2002 04:27:38 GMT, zane@abderaware.com (Zane Thomas)
    wrote:

    >Heh.


    Can't you be more concise with your commentary, Zane? You know how
    Phil is trying to conserve his stock of old Winchesters!

    MM

  6. #6
    MMFAN Guest

    Re: Pat's examples


    I have the rest of the world to agree with me. Did you look at any of the
    links I provided? No one buys the BS that VB.Net is easier to learn and
    use. No one coming from VB6 is going to think that VB.Net AS A WHOLE will
    be easier to learn. Some things will be easier, as I said they had better
    be!

    The people who will find it easy are the Java devs... I wonder why that is?

    There is plenty of evidence. You just need to open your eyes. I was pretty
    excited about .Net until I realized what it is. I have it installed and
    have written several small programs in C# and VB.Net. I also use VC++ almost
    everyday, so I'm not like the others who have refused to examine it.

    "Patrick Troughton" <Patrick@Troughton.com> wrote:
    >
    >"MMFAN" <mmf@mmf.org> wrote:
    >>
    >>Okay let's hit your points one at a time then.

    >
    >Great. I would love for you to do exactly that. Let's get started then.

    In
    >my first example, I showed you how creating user controls is much easier
    >in VB.NET....
    >
    >http://news.devx.com/cgi-bin/dnewswe...em=44342&utag=
    >
    >I would love to hear you explain why you think thousands of lines of VB6
    >code is easier than one line of VB.NET code.
    >
    >My second example wasn't quite as dramatic, but it clearly showed that

    displaying
    >a file open dialog is more intuitive in VB.NET....
    >
    >http://news.devx.com/cgi-bin/dnewswe...em=44447&utag=
    >
    >Please explain why you think all the extra loops required in VB6 makes things
    >easier.
    >
    >Go ahead and address my points. Take as much time as you need.
    >
    >/Pat



  7. #7
    MMFAN Guest

    Re: Pat's examples


    Give it up!!!

    "Patrick Troughton" <Patrick@Troughton.com> wrote:
    >
    >"MMFAN" <mmf@mmf.org> wrote:
    >>You've heard from beginners in this group brave
    >>enough to come forward and tell you that they don't think VB.Net is as

    simple
    >>to get started with as VB6.

    >
    >If you're referring to Michael Bennet, he said he was a beginner at VB.NET,
    >not a beginner at programming. You're not going to win any converts by lying.
    >
    >/Pa



  8. #8
    Patrick Troughton Guest

    Re: Pat's examples


    You can stick your head in the sand as much as you want but it doesn't make
    you right.

    /Pat

    "MMFAN" <MMF@MMF.org> wrote:
    >
    >Give it up!!!
    >



  9. #9
    Patrick Troughton Guest

    Re: Pat's examples


    "MMFAN" <MMF@MMF.com> wrote:
    >
    >I have the rest of the world to agree with me.


    Let me get this straight...MM speaks for the 3 million VB programmers but
    MMFAN speaks for the whole world? Shouldn't it be the other way around?

    >Did you look at any of the
    >links I provided?


    Sure did.

    > No one buys the BS that VB.Net is easier to learn and
    >use.


    You make grand claims but consistantly fail to back them up. I can provide
    hundreds of examples where VB.NET is easier than VB6. In the last three days,
    I've shown three, real world, everyday examples where VB.NET is easier than
    VB6. You have provided none.

    You keep avoiding the issues. So let me ask you again...are you willing to
    swallow your pride and admit that, at least when it comes to the following
    three things...

    creating a user control
    displaying a file open dialog
    procedure calling syntax

    ...that VB.NET is easier than VB6?

    >No one coming from VB6 is going to think that VB.Net AS A WHOLE will
    >be easier to learn.


    Hello?! I came from a VB6 background and I think that VB.NET as a whole is
    much easier to learn.

    > Some things will be easier, as I said they had better
    >be!


    And they are.

    >The people who will find it easy are the Java devs... I wonder why that

    is?

    I'm not a Java developer. I've been coding in Classic VB for 5-6 years now.

    >There is plenty of evidence.


    Not on your side.

    >You just need to open your eyes.


    They are. Are yours?

    /Pat

  10. #10
    MMFAN Guest

    Re: Pat's examples


    How about all the .Netters chip in and by one of your .Net controls. You'll
    have to lower the price a bit, but at least you would sell one.

    zane@abderaware.com (Zane Thomas) wrote:
    >On 7 Aug 2002 20:36:23 -0700, "MMFAN" <mmf@mmf.org> wrote:
    >
    >>I have a lot to say and time between projects to say it.

    >
    >Heh.
    >
    >
    >--
    >
    >*--------={ Fine Art for .NET }=--------*
    >| .Net Components @ www.abderaware.com |
    >*---------------------------------------*
    >
    > Turn on, tune in, download.
    > zane a@t abderaware.com



  11. #11
    Zane Thomas Guest

    Re: Pat's examples

    On 8 Aug 2002 11:29:12 -0700, "MMFAN" <mmf@mmf.org> wrote:

    >but at least you would sell one


    What reason do you have to suppose I haven't sold at least one?


    --

    *--------={ Fine Art for .NET }=--------*
    | .Net Components @ www.abderaware.com |
    *---------------------------------------*

    Turn on, tune in, download.
    zane a@t abderaware.com

  12. #12
    Kunle Odutola Guest

    Re: Pat's examples


    "MMFAN" <MMF@MMF.com> wrote in message news:3d52ab45$1@10.1.10.29...

    > The people who will find it easy are the Java devs... I wonder why that

    is?

    Perhaps the same reason that C++, Delphi/ObjectPascal, Sather, Self,
    Modula-3 etc developers find it easy (but not necessarily appealing ;-).
    VB.NET is a full OO language just like they are. There are less differences
    between VB.NET and them as compared to non-OO tools like C, COBOL, BASIC,
    Pascal.......

    Kunle



  13. #13
    MMFAN Guest

    Re: Pat's examples


    "Kunle Odutola" <kunle.odutola@<REMOVETHIS>okocha.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
    >
    >"MMFAN" <MMF@MMF.com> wrote in message news:3d52ab45$1@10.1.10.29...
    >
    >> The people who will find it easy are the Java devs... I wonder why that

    >is?
    >
    >Perhaps the same reason that C++, Delphi/ObjectPascal, Sather, Self,
    >Modula-3 etc developers find it easy (but not necessarily appealing ;-).
    >VB.NET is a full OO language just like they are. There are less differences
    >between VB.NET and them as compared to non-OO tools like C, COBOL, BASIC,
    >Pascal.......
    >
    >Kunle


    Yep, there will be a lot of VB devs out there in need of retraining. Maybe
    I'll start my own training company.

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