Web Services: a road for the future

[Patrick Troughton]

I guess you thought you were being clever but XML Web Services are a means
for communicating *data* not program code. The situation you describe doesn't
even apply to web services. For more information....

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...016460-9297745

/Pat

"Paulo Costa" <pcosta@esagri.pt> wrote:
>Friday, August 13, 2010
>
>Today in the morning I have a lot of things to do in my Web.PC. I'm
>beginning with a report. I boot my Web.PC and wait 5 minutes to donwload
the
>Web.OS (paying 5 credit$ per minute). OK, now I have to run
>Web.Wordprocessor so I have to download it at charge of 10 credit$ per
>minute. Dum... I spent 3 minutes... Now I'm writing the report and I have
to
>be fast because I'm paying 15 credit$ per minute. First I download my
>template report that is stored in the ISP server (where I pay 10 credit$
for
>each MB a month). Dum... communications are slow today and I have not much
>credit$ to spend. I spent 3 minutes writing the report... dum... it costed
>45 credit$ not including the upload to the ISP server. Now I have to send
it
>to my boss so I have to download the Web.Mailprocessor program at charge
of
>10 credit$ per minute... dum... more 3 minutes! OK lets send the message...
>What? A system critical message is displayed: "The system will be shutdown."
>Details: "Your Web.Bank informed that your Web.Account has no credit$."
>Solution: "Contact your Web.Bank and
>provide your Web.Account with more credit$" No! No! It costed 130 credit$
>for
>nothing! Dum... friday 13. What?...
>
>Don't care, this was only a nightmare!
>
>--
>Paulo Costa
>-----------
>VB.net could have been implemented without
>losing *Language Compatibility* with VB6.
>
>
>

[Paulo Costa]

Friday, August 13, 2010

Today in the morning I have a lot of things to do in my Web.PC. I'm
beginning with a report. I boot my Web.PC and wait 5 minutes to donwload the
Web.OS (paying 5 credit$ per minute). OK, now I have to run
Web.Wordprocessor so I have to download it at charge of 10 credit$ per
minute. Dum... I spent 3 minutes... Now I'm writing the report and I have to
be fast because I'm paying 15 credit$ per minute. First I download my
template report that is stored in the ISP server (where I pay 10 credit$ for
each MB a month). Dum... communications are slow today and I have not much
credit$ to spend. I spent 3 minutes writing the report... dum... it costed
45 credit$ not including the upload to the ISP server. Now I have to send it
to my boss so I have to download the Web.Mailprocessor program at charge of
10 credit$ per minute... dum... more 3 minutes! OK lets send the message...
What? A system critical message is displayed: "The system will be shutdown."
Details: "Your Web.Bank informed that your Web.Account has no credit$."
Solution: "Contact your Web.Bank and
provide your Web.Account with more credit$" No! No! It costed 130 credit$
for
nothing! Dum... friday 13. What?...

Don't care, this was only a nightmare!

--
Paulo Costa
-----------
VB.net could have been implemented without
losing *Language Compatibility* with VB6.

[Paulo Costa]

Pat,
Now trying to educate people, Pat. Hum... and some med for nightmares, what
do you suggest?
--
Paulo Costa
-----------
VB.net could have been implemented without
losing *Language Compatibility* with VB6.


"Patrick Troughton" <Patrick@Troughton.com> wrote in message
news:3d4975c8$1@10.1.10.29...
>
> I guess you thought you were being clever but XML Web Services are a means
> for communicating *data* not program code. The situation you describe
doesn't
> even apply to web services. For more information....
>
>
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...95/sr=2-1/ref=
sr_2_1/102-8016460-9297745
>
> /Pat
>
> "Paulo Costa" <pcosta@esagri.pt> wrote:
> >Friday, August 13, 2010
> >
> >Today in the morning I have a lot of things to do in my Web.PC. I'm
> >beginning with a report. I boot my Web.PC and wait 5 minutes to donwload
> the
> >Web.OS (paying 5 credit$ per minute). OK, now I have to run
> >Web.Wordprocessor so I have to download it at charge of 10 credit$ per
> >minute. Dum... I spent 3 minutes... Now I'm writing the report and I have
> to
> >be fast because I'm paying 15 credit$ per minute. First I download my
> >template report that is stored in the ISP server (where I pay 10 credit$
> for
> >each MB a month). Dum... communications are slow today and I have not
much
> >credit$ to spend. I spent 3 minutes writing the report... dum... it
costed
> >45 credit$ not including the upload to the ISP server. Now I have to send
> it
> >to my boss so I have to download the Web.Mailprocessor program at charge
> of
> >10 credit$ per minute... dum... more 3 minutes! OK lets send the
message...
> >What? A system critical message is displayed: "The system will be
shutdown."
> >Details: "Your Web.Bank informed that your Web.Account has no credit$."
> >Solution: "Contact your Web.Bank and
> >provide your Web.Account with more credit$" No! No! It costed 130 credit$
> >for
> >nothing! Dum... friday 13. What?...
> >
> >Don't care, this was only a nightmare!
> >
> >--
> >Paulo Costa
> >-----------
> >VB.net could have been implemented without
> >losing *Language Compatibility* with VB6.
> >
> >
> >
>

[MMFAN]

LOL I think a lot of people have had this same dream!

"Paulo Costa" <pcosta@esagri.pt> wrote:
>Friday, August 13, 2010
>
>Today in the morning I have a lot of things to do in my Web.PC. I'm
>beginning with a report. I boot my Web.PC and wait 5 minutes to donwload
the
>Web.OS (paying 5 credit$ per minute). OK, now I have to run
>Web.Wordprocessor so I have to download it at charge of 10 credit$ per
>minute. Dum... I spent 3 minutes... Now I'm writing the report and I have
to
>be fast because I'm paying 15 credit$ per minute. First I download my
>template report that is stored in the ISP server (where I pay 10 credit$
for
>each MB a month). Dum... communications are slow today and I have not much
>credit$ to spend. I spent 3 minutes writing the report... dum... it costed
>45 credit$ not including the upload to the ISP server. Now I have to send
it
>to my boss so I have to download the Web.Mailprocessor program at charge
of
>10 credit$ per minute... dum... more 3 minutes! OK lets send the message...
>What? A system critical message is displayed: "The system will be shutdown."
>Details: "Your Web.Bank informed that your Web.Account has no credit$."
>Solution: "Contact your Web.Bank and
>provide your Web.Account with more credit$" No! No! It costed 130 credit$
>for
>nothing! Dum... friday 13. What?...
>
>Don't care, this was only a nightmare!
>
>--
>Paulo Costa
>-----------
>VB.net could have been implemented without
>losing *Language Compatibility* with VB6.
>
>
>

[Patrick Troughton]

"Paulo Costa" <pcosta@esagri.pt> wrote:
>
>Now trying to educate people, Pat.
>

Actually, that's what I've been doing here for two years now.

/Pat

[Patrick Troughton]

"MMFAN" <mm@mm.org> wrote:
>
>LOL I think a lot of people have had this same dream!

Then they need not worry. XML Web Services are a means for communicating
*data* not program code. As I pointed out to the op, this situation
doesn't even apply to web services. For more information....

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...016460-9297745

/Pat

[Patrick Troughton]

You're not listening. XML Web Services are for sending *data* not *code*.
Please stop being so dense.

/Pat

kylix_is@yahoo.co.uk (Mike Mitchell) wrote:
>On 1 Aug 2002 10:54:16 -0700, "Patrick Troughton"
><Patrick@Troughton.com> wrote:
>
>>I guess you thought you were being clever but XML Web Services are a means
>>for communicating *data* not program code. The situation you describe doesn't
>>even apply to web services. For more information....
>
>That's right, Pat! It will never happen. Companies will provide web
>services and be totally above board, honest and trustworthy about it.
>I will freely hand over my credit card number and personal details to
>them and never ever receive one item of junk mail, let alone a false
>booking, let alone being dunned with a fraudulent payment, where the
>onus will be on ME ME ME to sort it out, since the honest and
>trustworthy ones will by then have left the building.
>
>I can just see it now...
>
>MM

[Mike Mitchell]

On Thu, 1 Aug 2002 18:54:35 +0100, "Paulo Costa" <pcosta@esagri.pt>
wrote:

>Don't care, this was only a nightmare!

May be only a nightmare now, but there's nothing stopping very much
like what you depicted from happening. Plus, how much extra effort are
we going to have to expend to make sure all those charges were valid?
Countless microsubs, a few cents here, a dollar there, as different
companies vie with each other to provide the cheapest web "services".
We're going to lose even more of our free time as we check for
rip-offs. Alternatively, we could just trust 'em...

YeahRight!

And then there's the man on the Caterpillar, who just cut through some
major cable trunking. While this is all bad enough, your boss will be
breathing down your neck to save money by not running the spel chekker
or not incorporating the latest pretty piccies you sweated blood over
with Paint Shop Pro all night long. When the cut-off is, say, 15
minutes till the next Bill payment (har har!), the urge will be to
finish what you're doing RIGHT NOW, and save another 10 microsubs. Or,
if you go over the 15 minutes, your boss "fines" you a few minutes'
wages - hey. if we can buy web services by the minute, why not
workers, too? In the UK a tailoring firm sent its staff home, then
called them on the phone to come in when the shop became busy. But
they only got paid for the time actually spent in the shop. I believe
this practice was outlawed. (If it had been me, the bosses would have
found themselves in the pillories, tossers.)

Still think it's a nightmare? Well, it's a nightmare waiting to happen
for some of us!

MM

[Mike Mitchell]

On 1 Aug 2002 10:54:16 -0700, "Patrick Troughton"
<Patrick@Troughton.com> wrote:

>I guess you thought you were being clever but XML Web Services are a means
>for communicating *data* not program code. The situation you describe doesn't
>even apply to web services. For more information....

That's right, Pat! It will never happen. Companies will provide web
services and be totally above board, honest and trustworthy about it.
I will freely hand over my credit card number and personal details to
them and never ever receive one item of junk mail, let alone a false
booking, let alone being dunned with a fraudulent payment, where the
onus will be on ME ME ME to sort it out, since the honest and
trustworthy ones will by then have left the building.

I can just see it now...

MM

[Mike Mitchell]

On Thu, 1 Aug 2002 19:30:30 +0100, "Paulo Costa" <pcosta@esagri.pt>
wrote:

>Pat,
>Now trying to educate people, Pat. Hum... and some med for nightmares, what
>do you suggest?

I suggest we disconnect our computers from the internet and only
reconnect for those brief periods when we actually need to contact
somebody. Best kind of birth control is not stick your **** in in the
first place.

MM

[Patrick Troughton]

The only one suffering here is you from a case of denial. That's not at all
what you said. Fortunately, it's very easy to prove that. Here's what you
said, word for word, without alteration...

<quote>
Friday, August 13, 2010

Today in the morning I have a lot of things to do in my Web.PC. I'm
beginning with a report. I boot my Web.PC and wait 5 minutes to donwload
the
Web.OS (paying 5 credit$ per minute). OK, now I have to run
Web.Wordprocessor so I have to download it at charge of 10 credit$ per
minute. Dum... I spent 3 minutes... Now I'm writing the report and I have
to
be fast because I'm paying 15 credit$ per minute. First I download my
template report that is stored in the ISP server (where I pay 10 credit$
for
each MB a month). Dum... communications are slow today and I have not much
credit$ to spend. I spent 3 minutes writing the report... dum... it costed
45 credit$ not including the upload to the ISP server. Now I have to send
it
to my boss so I have to download the Web.Mailprocessor program at charge
of
10 credit$ per minute... dum... more 3 minutes! OK lets send the message...
What? A system critical message is displayed: "The system will be shutdown."
Details: "Your Web.Bank informed that your Web.Account has no credit$."
Solution: "Contact your Web.Bank and
provide your Web.Account with more credit$" No! No! It costed 130 credit$
for
nothing! Dum... friday 13. What?...

Don't care, this was only a nightmare!
</quote>

Now that you realize what you said was completely wrong, you're trying to
change what you said. Here's some advice...it's a lot easier just admitting
you're wrong or dropping the subject. The more you try to argue what you
said, the more you paint yourself into a corner.

BTW, I was serious about picking up a book on XML Web Services. What do you
have to lose? It's obviously a topic you have some interest in (otherwise
you won't have made these posts) and knowledge is power. If you want to convince
people that web services are bad, you need to be to articulate why.

/Pat

"Paulo Costa" <pcosta@esagri.pt> wrote:
>Pat,
>To abbreviate your suffering I'll try to help you because I think you are
a
>nice guy. When I said "download" Web.programs I was referring to XML
>documents. Some light now?
>--
>Paulo Costa
>-----------
>VB.net could have been implemented without losing *Language Compatibility*
>with VB6.
>
>
>"Patrick Troughton" <Patrick@Troughton.com> wrote in message
>news:3d49844b$1@10.1.10.29...
>>
>> "Paulo Costa" <pcosta@esagri.pt> wrote:
>> >
>> >Now trying to educate people, Pat.
>> >
>>
>> Actually, that's what I've been doing here for two years now.
>>
>> /Pat
>
>

[Patrick Troughton]

"Patrick Troughton" <Patrick@Troughton.com> wrote:
>If you want to convince
>people that web services are bad, you need to be to articulate why.

My bad. Insert the word 'able' between 'be' and 'to'.

/Pat

[Paulo Costa]

Pat,
To abbreviate your suffering I'll try to help you because I think you are a
nice guy. When I said "download" Web.programs I was referring to XML
documents. Some light now?
--
Paulo Costa
-----------
VB.net could have been implemented without losing *Language Compatibility*
with VB6.


"Patrick Troughton" <Patrick@Troughton.com> wrote in message
news:3d49844b$1@10.1.10.29...
>
> "Paulo Costa" <pcosta@esagri.pt> wrote:
> >
> >Now trying to educate people, Pat.
> >
>
> Actually, that's what I've been doing here for two years now.
>
> /Pat

[Paulo Costa]

Pat,
You must be tired. Web.programs are XML documents in my nightmare. Do you
understand and agree now or do you want a picture?

--
Paulo Costa
-----------
VB.net could have been implemented without
losing *Language Compatibility* with VB6.


"Patrick Troughton" <Patrick@Troughton.com> wrote in message
news:3d498ce0$1@10.1.10.29...
>
> The only one suffering here is you from a case of denial. That's not at
all
> what you said. Fortunately, it's very easy to prove that. Here's what you
> said, word for word, without alteration...
>
> <quote>
> Friday, August 13, 2010
>
> Today in the morning I have a lot of things to do in my Web.PC. I'm
> beginning with a report. I boot my Web.PC and wait 5 minutes to donwload
> the
> Web.OS (paying 5 credit$ per minute). OK, now I have to run
> Web.Wordprocessor so I have to download it at charge of 10 credit$ per
> minute. Dum... I spent 3 minutes... Now I'm writing the report and I have
> to
> be fast because I'm paying 15 credit$ per minute. First I download my
> template report that is stored in the ISP server (where I pay 10 credit$
> for
> each MB a month). Dum... communications are slow today and I have not much
> credit$ to spend. I spent 3 minutes writing the report... dum... it costed
> 45 credit$ not including the upload to the ISP server. Now I have to send
> it
> to my boss so I have to download the Web.Mailprocessor program at charge
> of
> 10 credit$ per minute... dum... more 3 minutes! OK lets send the
message...
> What? A system critical message is displayed: "The system will be
shutdown."
> Details: "Your Web.Bank informed that your Web.Account has no credit$."
> Solution: "Contact your Web.Bank and
> provide your Web.Account with more credit$" No! No! It costed 130 credit$
> for
> nothing! Dum... friday 13. What?...
>
> Don't care, this was only a nightmare!
> </quote>
>
> Now that you realize what you said was completely wrong, you're trying to
> change what you said. Here's some advice...it's a lot easier just
admitting
> you're wrong or dropping the subject. The more you try to argue what you
> said, the more you paint yourself into a corner.
>
> BTW, I was serious about picking up a book on XML Web Services. What do
you
> have to lose? It's obviously a topic you have some interest in (otherwise
> you won't have made these posts) and knowledge is power. If you want to
convince
> people that web services are bad, you need to be to articulate why.
>
> /Pat
>
> "Paulo Costa" <pcosta@esagri.pt> wrote:
> >Pat,
> >To abbreviate your suffering I'll try to help you because I think you are
> a
> >nice guy. When I said "download" Web.programs I was referring to XML
> >documents. Some light now?
> >--
> >Paulo Costa
> >-----------
> >VB.net could have been implemented without losing *Language
Compatibility*
> >with VB6.
> >
> >
> >"Patrick Troughton" <Patrick@Troughton.com> wrote in message
> >news:3d49844b$1@10.1.10.29...
> >>
> >> "Paulo Costa" <pcosta@esagri.pt> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >Now trying to educate people, Pat.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Actually, that's what I've been doing here for two years now.
> >>
> >> /Pat
> >
> >
>

[Brent]

LOL... you are a work of art.

XML Web Services are not ASPs (Application Service Providers). XML Web Services
are a means by which to transfer data from one party to another. They have
NOTHING to do with Application Delivery.

I don't foresee ASPs working either. I have a cable modem at home and connect
via a T1 at work, and I can tell you neither are fast. When we get 500+
people transferring data across our network, then you have 100+ people run
WebRadio, then you get 20+ people going out to the Net for viable business
reasons, then you get the rest going out for non-viable business reasons,
there will be little to no bandwidth left for Applications. There is no
way a company is going to spend an additional $1,000 per month for another
T1 line. And then you have the ASP who needs to be able to support all the
customers connected at once working on 20GB files - Nope not going to happen
in my lifetime.

There would have to be a huge effort put into developing the next high-speed
network and I can't see that happening with all that is going wrong with
the Telecommunications Industry. WorldCom was supposed to be pioneering
this development and look where they are today....

kylix_is@yahoo.co.uk (Mike Mitchell) wrote:
>On Thu, 1 Aug 2002 18:54:35 +0100, "Paulo Costa" <pcosta@esagri.pt>
>wrote:
>
>>Don't care, this was only a nightmare!
>
>May be only a nightmare now, but there's nothing stopping very much
>like what you depicted from happening. Plus, how much extra effort are
>we going to have to expend to make sure all those charges were valid?
>Countless microsubs, a few cents here, a dollar there, as different
>companies vie with each other to provide the cheapest web "services".
>We're going to lose even more of our free time as we check for
>rip-offs. Alternatively, we could just trust 'em...
>
>YeahRight!
>
>And then there's the man on the Caterpillar, who just cut through some
>major cable trunking. While this is all bad enough, your boss will be
>breathing down your neck to save money by not running the spel chekker
>or not incorporating the latest pretty piccies you sweated blood over
>with Paint Shop Pro all night long. When the cut-off is, say, 15
>minutes till the next Bill payment (har har!), the urge will be to
>finish what you're doing RIGHT NOW, and save another 10 microsubs. Or,
>if you go over the 15 minutes, your boss "fines" you a few minutes'
>wages - hey. if we can buy web services by the minute, why not
>workers, too? In the UK a tailoring firm sent its staff home, then
>called them on the phone to come in when the shop became busy. But
>they only got paid for the time actually spent in the shop. I believe
>this practice was outlawed. (If it had been me, the bosses would have
>found themselves in the pillories, tossers.)
>
>Still think it's a nightmare? Well, it's a nightmare waiting to happen
>for some of us!
>
>MM