Web Services: a road for the future


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Thread: Web Services: a road for the future

  1. #1
    Patrick Troughton Guest

    Re: Web Services: a road for the future


    I guess you thought you were being clever but XML Web Services are a means
    for communicating *data* not program code. The situation you describe doesn't
    even apply to web services. For more information....

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...016460-9297745

    /Pat

    "Paulo Costa" <pcosta@esagri.pt> wrote:
    >Friday, August 13, 2010
    >
    >Today in the morning I have a lot of things to do in my Web.PC. I'm
    >beginning with a report. I boot my Web.PC and wait 5 minutes to donwload

    the
    >Web.OS (paying 5 credit$ per minute). OK, now I have to run
    >Web.Wordprocessor so I have to download it at charge of 10 credit$ per
    >minute. Dum... I spent 3 minutes... Now I'm writing the report and I have

    to
    >be fast because I'm paying 15 credit$ per minute. First I download my
    >template report that is stored in the ISP server (where I pay 10 credit$

    for
    >each MB a month). Dum... communications are slow today and I have not much
    >credit$ to spend. I spent 3 minutes writing the report... dum... it costed
    >45 credit$ not including the upload to the ISP server. Now I have to send

    it
    >to my boss so I have to download the Web.Mailprocessor program at charge

    of
    >10 credit$ per minute... dum... more 3 minutes! OK lets send the message...
    >What? A system critical message is displayed: "The system will be shutdown."
    >Details: "Your Web.Bank informed that your Web.Account has no credit$."
    >Solution: "Contact your Web.Bank and
    >provide your Web.Account with more credit$" No! No! It costed 130 credit$
    >for
    >nothing! Dum... friday 13. What?...
    >
    >Don't care, this was only a nightmare!
    >
    >--
    >Paulo Costa
    >-----------
    >VB.net could have been implemented without
    >losing *Language Compatibility* with VB6.
    >
    >
    >



  2. #2
    Paulo Costa Guest

    Web Services: a road for the future

    Friday, August 13, 2010

    Today in the morning I have a lot of things to do in my Web.PC. I'm
    beginning with a report. I boot my Web.PC and wait 5 minutes to donwload the
    Web.OS (paying 5 credit$ per minute). OK, now I have to run
    Web.Wordprocessor so I have to download it at charge of 10 credit$ per
    minute. Dum... I spent 3 minutes... Now I'm writing the report and I have to
    be fast because I'm paying 15 credit$ per minute. First I download my
    template report that is stored in the ISP server (where I pay 10 credit$ for
    each MB a month). Dum... communications are slow today and I have not much
    credit$ to spend. I spent 3 minutes writing the report... dum... it costed
    45 credit$ not including the upload to the ISP server. Now I have to send it
    to my boss so I have to download the Web.Mailprocessor program at charge of
    10 credit$ per minute... dum... more 3 minutes! OK lets send the message...
    What? A system critical message is displayed: "The system will be shutdown."
    Details: "Your Web.Bank informed that your Web.Account has no credit$."
    Solution: "Contact your Web.Bank and
    provide your Web.Account with more credit$" No! No! It costed 130 credit$
    for
    nothing! Dum... friday 13. What?...

    Don't care, this was only a nightmare!

    --
    Paulo Costa
    -----------
    VB.net could have been implemented without
    losing *Language Compatibility* with VB6.




  3. #3
    Paulo Costa Guest

    Re: Web Services: a road for the future

    Pat,
    Now trying to educate people, Pat. Hum... and some med for nightmares, what
    do you suggest?
    --
    Paulo Costa
    -----------
    VB.net could have been implemented without
    losing *Language Compatibility* with VB6.


    "Patrick Troughton" <Patrick@Troughton.com> wrote in message
    news:3d4975c8$1@10.1.10.29...
    >
    > I guess you thought you were being clever but XML Web Services are a means
    > for communicating *data* not program code. The situation you describe

    doesn't
    > even apply to web services. For more information....
    >
    >

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...95/sr=2-1/ref=
    sr_2_1/102-8016460-9297745
    >
    > /Pat
    >
    > "Paulo Costa" <pcosta@esagri.pt> wrote:
    > >Friday, August 13, 2010
    > >
    > >Today in the morning I have a lot of things to do in my Web.PC. I'm
    > >beginning with a report. I boot my Web.PC and wait 5 minutes to donwload

    > the
    > >Web.OS (paying 5 credit$ per minute). OK, now I have to run
    > >Web.Wordprocessor so I have to download it at charge of 10 credit$ per
    > >minute. Dum... I spent 3 minutes... Now I'm writing the report and I have

    > to
    > >be fast because I'm paying 15 credit$ per minute. First I download my
    > >template report that is stored in the ISP server (where I pay 10 credit$

    > for
    > >each MB a month). Dum... communications are slow today and I have not

    much
    > >credit$ to spend. I spent 3 minutes writing the report... dum... it

    costed
    > >45 credit$ not including the upload to the ISP server. Now I have to send

    > it
    > >to my boss so I have to download the Web.Mailprocessor program at charge

    > of
    > >10 credit$ per minute... dum... more 3 minutes! OK lets send the

    message...
    > >What? A system critical message is displayed: "The system will be

    shutdown."
    > >Details: "Your Web.Bank informed that your Web.Account has no credit$."
    > >Solution: "Contact your Web.Bank and
    > >provide your Web.Account with more credit$" No! No! It costed 130 credit$
    > >for
    > >nothing! Dum... friday 13. What?...
    > >
    > >Don't care, this was only a nightmare!
    > >
    > >--
    > >Paulo Costa
    > >-----------
    > >VB.net could have been implemented without
    > >losing *Language Compatibility* with VB6.
    > >
    > >
    > >

    >




  4. #4
    MMFAN Guest

    Re: Web Services: a road for the future


    LOL I think a lot of people have had this same dream!

    "Paulo Costa" <pcosta@esagri.pt> wrote:
    >Friday, August 13, 2010
    >
    >Today in the morning I have a lot of things to do in my Web.PC. I'm
    >beginning with a report. I boot my Web.PC and wait 5 minutes to donwload

    the
    >Web.OS (paying 5 credit$ per minute). OK, now I have to run
    >Web.Wordprocessor so I have to download it at charge of 10 credit$ per
    >minute. Dum... I spent 3 minutes... Now I'm writing the report and I have

    to
    >be fast because I'm paying 15 credit$ per minute. First I download my
    >template report that is stored in the ISP server (where I pay 10 credit$

    for
    >each MB a month). Dum... communications are slow today and I have not much
    >credit$ to spend. I spent 3 minutes writing the report... dum... it costed
    >45 credit$ not including the upload to the ISP server. Now I have to send

    it
    >to my boss so I have to download the Web.Mailprocessor program at charge

    of
    >10 credit$ per minute... dum... more 3 minutes! OK lets send the message...
    >What? A system critical message is displayed: "The system will be shutdown."
    >Details: "Your Web.Bank informed that your Web.Account has no credit$."
    >Solution: "Contact your Web.Bank and
    >provide your Web.Account with more credit$" No! No! It costed 130 credit$
    >for
    >nothing! Dum... friday 13. What?...
    >
    >Don't care, this was only a nightmare!
    >
    >--
    >Paulo Costa
    >-----------
    >VB.net could have been implemented without
    >losing *Language Compatibility* with VB6.
    >
    >
    >



  5. #5
    Patrick Troughton Guest

    Re: Web Services: a road for the future


    "Paulo Costa" <pcosta@esagri.pt> wrote:
    >
    >Now trying to educate people, Pat.
    >


    Actually, that's what I've been doing here for two years now.

    /Pat

  6. #6
    Patrick Troughton Guest

    Re: Web Services: a road for the future


    "MMFAN" <mm@mm.org> wrote:
    >
    >LOL I think a lot of people have had this same dream!


    Then they need not worry. XML Web Services are a means for communicating
    *data* not program code. As I pointed out to the op, this situation
    doesn't even apply to web services. For more information....

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...016460-9297745

    /Pat



  7. #7
    Patrick Troughton Guest

    Re: Web Services: a road for the future


    You're not listening. XML Web Services are for sending *data* not *code*.
    Please stop being so dense.

    /Pat

    kylix_is@yahoo.co.uk (Mike Mitchell) wrote:
    >On 1 Aug 2002 10:54:16 -0700, "Patrick Troughton"
    ><Patrick@Troughton.com> wrote:
    >
    >>I guess you thought you were being clever but XML Web Services are a means
    >>for communicating *data* not program code. The situation you describe doesn't
    >>even apply to web services. For more information....

    >
    >That's right, Pat! It will never happen. Companies will provide web
    >services and be totally above board, honest and trustworthy about it.
    >I will freely hand over my credit card number and personal details to
    >them and never ever receive one item of junk mail, let alone a false
    >booking, let alone being dunned with a fraudulent payment, where the
    >onus will be on ME ME ME to sort it out, since the honest and
    >trustworthy ones will by then have left the building.
    >
    >I can just see it now...
    >
    >MM



  8. #8
    Mike Mitchell Guest

    Re: Web Services: a road for the future

    On Thu, 1 Aug 2002 18:54:35 +0100, "Paulo Costa" <pcosta@esagri.pt>
    wrote:

    >Don't care, this was only a nightmare!


    May be only a nightmare now, but there's nothing stopping very much
    like what you depicted from happening. Plus, how much extra effort are
    we going to have to expend to make sure all those charges were valid?
    Countless microsubs, a few cents here, a dollar there, as different
    companies vie with each other to provide the cheapest web "services".
    We're going to lose even more of our free time as we check for
    rip-offs. Alternatively, we could just trust 'em...

    YeahRight!

    And then there's the man on the Caterpillar, who just cut through some
    major cable trunking. While this is all bad enough, your boss will be
    breathing down your neck to save money by not running the spel chekker
    or not incorporating the latest pretty piccies you sweated blood over
    with Paint Shop Pro all night long. When the cut-off is, say, 15
    minutes till the next Bill payment (har har!), the urge will be to
    finish what you're doing RIGHT NOW, and save another 10 microsubs. Or,
    if you go over the 15 minutes, your boss "fines" you a few minutes'
    wages - hey. if we can buy web services by the minute, why not
    workers, too? In the UK a tailoring firm sent its staff home, then
    called them on the phone to come in when the shop became busy. But
    they only got paid for the time actually spent in the shop. I believe
    this practice was outlawed. (If it had been me, the bosses would have
    found themselves in the pillories, tossers.)

    Still think it's a nightmare? Well, it's a nightmare waiting to happen
    for some of us!

    MM

  9. #9
    Mike Mitchell Guest

    Re: Web Services: a road for the future

    On 1 Aug 2002 10:54:16 -0700, "Patrick Troughton"
    <Patrick@Troughton.com> wrote:

    >I guess you thought you were being clever but XML Web Services are a means
    >for communicating *data* not program code. The situation you describe doesn't
    >even apply to web services. For more information....


    That's right, Pat! It will never happen. Companies will provide web
    services and be totally above board, honest and trustworthy about it.
    I will freely hand over my credit card number and personal details to
    them and never ever receive one item of junk mail, let alone a false
    booking, let alone being dunned with a fraudulent payment, where the
    onus will be on ME ME ME to sort it out, since the honest and
    trustworthy ones will by then have left the building.

    I can just see it now...

    MM

  10. #10
    Mike Mitchell Guest

    Re: Web Services: a road for the future

    On Thu, 1 Aug 2002 19:30:30 +0100, "Paulo Costa" <pcosta@esagri.pt>
    wrote:

    >Pat,
    >Now trying to educate people, Pat. Hum... and some med for nightmares, what
    >do you suggest?


    I suggest we disconnect our computers from the internet and only
    reconnect for those brief periods when we actually need to contact
    somebody. Best kind of birth control is not stick your **** in in the
    first place.

    MM

  11. #11
    Patrick Troughton Guest

    Re: Web Services: a road for the future


    The only one suffering here is you from a case of denial. That's not at all
    what you said. Fortunately, it's very easy to prove that. Here's what you
    said, word for word, without alteration...

    <quote>
    Friday, August 13, 2010

    Today in the morning I have a lot of things to do in my Web.PC. I'm
    beginning with a report. I boot my Web.PC and wait 5 minutes to donwload
    the
    Web.OS (paying 5 credit$ per minute). OK, now I have to run
    Web.Wordprocessor so I have to download it at charge of 10 credit$ per
    minute. Dum... I spent 3 minutes... Now I'm writing the report and I have
    to
    be fast because I'm paying 15 credit$ per minute. First I download my
    template report that is stored in the ISP server (where I pay 10 credit$
    for
    each MB a month). Dum... communications are slow today and I have not much
    credit$ to spend. I spent 3 minutes writing the report... dum... it costed
    45 credit$ not including the upload to the ISP server. Now I have to send
    it
    to my boss so I have to download the Web.Mailprocessor program at charge
    of
    10 credit$ per minute... dum... more 3 minutes! OK lets send the message...
    What? A system critical message is displayed: "The system will be shutdown."
    Details: "Your Web.Bank informed that your Web.Account has no credit$."
    Solution: "Contact your Web.Bank and
    provide your Web.Account with more credit$" No! No! It costed 130 credit$
    for
    nothing! Dum... friday 13. What?...

    Don't care, this was only a nightmare!
    </quote>

    Now that you realize what you said was completely wrong, you're trying to
    change what you said. Here's some advice...it's a lot easier just admitting
    you're wrong or dropping the subject. The more you try to argue what you
    said, the more you paint yourself into a corner.

    BTW, I was serious about picking up a book on XML Web Services. What do you
    have to lose? It's obviously a topic you have some interest in (otherwise
    you won't have made these posts) and knowledge is power. If you want to convince
    people that web services are bad, you need to be to articulate why.

    /Pat

    "Paulo Costa" <pcosta@esagri.pt> wrote:
    >Pat,
    >To abbreviate your suffering I'll try to help you because I think you are

    a
    >nice guy. When I said "download" Web.programs I was referring to XML
    >documents. Some light now?
    >--
    >Paulo Costa
    >-----------
    >VB.net could have been implemented without losing *Language Compatibility*
    >with VB6.
    >
    >
    >"Patrick Troughton" <Patrick@Troughton.com> wrote in message
    >news:3d49844b$1@10.1.10.29...
    >>
    >> "Paulo Costa" <pcosta@esagri.pt> wrote:
    >> >
    >> >Now trying to educate people, Pat.
    >> >

    >>
    >> Actually, that's what I've been doing here for two years now.
    >>
    >> /Pat

    >
    >



  12. #12
    Patrick Troughton Guest

    Re: Web Services: a road for the future


    "Patrick Troughton" <Patrick@Troughton.com> wrote:
    >If you want to convince
    >people that web services are bad, you need to be to articulate why.


    My bad. Insert the word 'able' between 'be' and 'to'.

    /Pat

  13. #13
    Paulo Costa Guest

    Re: Web Services: a road for the future

    Pat,
    To abbreviate your suffering I'll try to help you because I think you are a
    nice guy. When I said "download" Web.programs I was referring to XML
    documents. Some light now?
    --
    Paulo Costa
    -----------
    VB.net could have been implemented without losing *Language Compatibility*
    with VB6.


    "Patrick Troughton" <Patrick@Troughton.com> wrote in message
    news:3d49844b$1@10.1.10.29...
    >
    > "Paulo Costa" <pcosta@esagri.pt> wrote:
    > >
    > >Now trying to educate people, Pat.
    > >

    >
    > Actually, that's what I've been doing here for two years now.
    >
    > /Pat




  14. #14
    Paulo Costa Guest

    Re: Web Services: a road for the future

    Pat,
    You must be tired. Web.programs are XML documents in my nightmare. Do you
    understand and agree now or do you want a picture?

    --
    Paulo Costa
    -----------
    VB.net could have been implemented without
    losing *Language Compatibility* with VB6.


    "Patrick Troughton" <Patrick@Troughton.com> wrote in message
    news:3d498ce0$1@10.1.10.29...
    >
    > The only one suffering here is you from a case of denial. That's not at

    all
    > what you said. Fortunately, it's very easy to prove that. Here's what you
    > said, word for word, without alteration...
    >
    > <quote>
    > Friday, August 13, 2010
    >
    > Today in the morning I have a lot of things to do in my Web.PC. I'm
    > beginning with a report. I boot my Web.PC and wait 5 minutes to donwload
    > the
    > Web.OS (paying 5 credit$ per minute). OK, now I have to run
    > Web.Wordprocessor so I have to download it at charge of 10 credit$ per
    > minute. Dum... I spent 3 minutes... Now I'm writing the report and I have
    > to
    > be fast because I'm paying 15 credit$ per minute. First I download my
    > template report that is stored in the ISP server (where I pay 10 credit$
    > for
    > each MB a month). Dum... communications are slow today and I have not much
    > credit$ to spend. I spent 3 minutes writing the report... dum... it costed
    > 45 credit$ not including the upload to the ISP server. Now I have to send
    > it
    > to my boss so I have to download the Web.Mailprocessor program at charge
    > of
    > 10 credit$ per minute... dum... more 3 minutes! OK lets send the

    message...
    > What? A system critical message is displayed: "The system will be

    shutdown."
    > Details: "Your Web.Bank informed that your Web.Account has no credit$."
    > Solution: "Contact your Web.Bank and
    > provide your Web.Account with more credit$" No! No! It costed 130 credit$
    > for
    > nothing! Dum... friday 13. What?...
    >
    > Don't care, this was only a nightmare!
    > </quote>
    >
    > Now that you realize what you said was completely wrong, you're trying to
    > change what you said. Here's some advice...it's a lot easier just

    admitting
    > you're wrong or dropping the subject. The more you try to argue what you
    > said, the more you paint yourself into a corner.
    >
    > BTW, I was serious about picking up a book on XML Web Services. What do

    you
    > have to lose? It's obviously a topic you have some interest in (otherwise
    > you won't have made these posts) and knowledge is power. If you want to

    convince
    > people that web services are bad, you need to be to articulate why.
    >
    > /Pat
    >
    > "Paulo Costa" <pcosta@esagri.pt> wrote:
    > >Pat,
    > >To abbreviate your suffering I'll try to help you because I think you are

    > a
    > >nice guy. When I said "download" Web.programs I was referring to XML
    > >documents. Some light now?
    > >--
    > >Paulo Costa
    > >-----------
    > >VB.net could have been implemented without losing *Language

    Compatibility*
    > >with VB6.
    > >
    > >
    > >"Patrick Troughton" <Patrick@Troughton.com> wrote in message
    > >news:3d49844b$1@10.1.10.29...
    > >>
    > >> "Paulo Costa" <pcosta@esagri.pt> wrote:
    > >> >
    > >> >Now trying to educate people, Pat.
    > >> >
    > >>
    > >> Actually, that's what I've been doing here for two years now.
    > >>
    > >> /Pat

    > >
    > >

    >




  15. #15
    Brent Guest

    Re: Web Services: a road for the future


    LOL... you are a work of art.

    XML Web Services are not ASPs (Application Service Providers). XML Web Services
    are a means by which to transfer data from one party to another. They have
    NOTHING to do with Application Delivery.

    I don't foresee ASPs working either. I have a cable modem at home and connect
    via a T1 at work, and I can tell you neither are fast. When we get 500+
    people transferring data across our network, then you have 100+ people run
    WebRadio, then you get 20+ people going out to the Net for viable business
    reasons, then you get the rest going out for non-viable business reasons,
    there will be little to no bandwidth left for Applications. There is no
    way a company is going to spend an additional $1,000 per month for another
    T1 line. And then you have the ASP who needs to be able to support all the
    customers connected at once working on 20GB files - Nope not going to happen
    in my lifetime.

    There would have to be a huge effort put into developing the next high-speed
    network and I can't see that happening with all that is going wrong with
    the Telecommunications Industry. WorldCom was supposed to be pioneering
    this development and look where they are today....

    kylix_is@yahoo.co.uk (Mike Mitchell) wrote:
    >On Thu, 1 Aug 2002 18:54:35 +0100, "Paulo Costa" <pcosta@esagri.pt>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>Don't care, this was only a nightmare!

    >
    >May be only a nightmare now, but there's nothing stopping very much
    >like what you depicted from happening. Plus, how much extra effort are
    >we going to have to expend to make sure all those charges were valid?
    >Countless microsubs, a few cents here, a dollar there, as different
    >companies vie with each other to provide the cheapest web "services".
    >We're going to lose even more of our free time as we check for
    >rip-offs. Alternatively, we could just trust 'em...
    >
    >YeahRight!
    >
    >And then there's the man on the Caterpillar, who just cut through some
    >major cable trunking. While this is all bad enough, your boss will be
    >breathing down your neck to save money by not running the spel chekker
    >or not incorporating the latest pretty piccies you sweated blood over
    >with Paint Shop Pro all night long. When the cut-off is, say, 15
    >minutes till the next Bill payment (har har!), the urge will be to
    >finish what you're doing RIGHT NOW, and save another 10 microsubs. Or,
    >if you go over the 15 minutes, your boss "fines" you a few minutes'
    >wages - hey. if we can buy web services by the minute, why not
    >workers, too? In the UK a tailoring firm sent its staff home, then
    >called them on the phone to come in when the shop became busy. But
    >they only got paid for the time actually spent in the shop. I believe
    >this practice was outlawed. (If it had been me, the bosses would have
    >found themselves in the pillories, tossers.)
    >
    >Still think it's a nightmare? Well, it's a nightmare waiting to happen
    >for some of us!
    >
    >MM



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