Kent, this post is for you


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Thread: Kent, this post is for you

  1. #1
    T. Hoskins Guest

    Kent, this post is for you


    Since Java seems to be your programming language of choice, I thought you
    might be want to check out the following weblog:

    http://www.freeroller.net/page/ceper...ns_why_java_is

    This person states the following, "I am building a list, that's actually
    inspired by "101 things that the Mozilla browser can do that IE cannot".
    Its a list of 101 reasons of why Java is better than .NET. 101 reasons
    is actually a pretty ambitious number, however its always good to aim high
    first. If you don't succeed you could always relax the criteria for success!"


    As of Friday January 24, 2003 he has posted 85 reasons/arguments.

  2. #2
    Kent Guest

    Re: Kent, this post is for you


    Hey T,

    Thanks for the post. Pretty good stuff I was expecting to open your
    post and get blasted for some .Not stance I had taken. This was much better!

    Kent

    "T. Hoskins" <thoskins@nospam.com> wrote:
    >
    >Since Java seems to be your programming language of choice, I thought you
    >might be want to check out the following weblog:
    >
    >http://www.freeroller.net/page/ceper...ns_why_java_is
    >
    >This person states the following, "I am building a list, that's actually
    >inspired by "101 things that the Mozilla browser can do that IE cannot".
    > Its a list of 101 reasons of why Java is better than .NET. 101 reasons
    >is actually a pretty ambitious number, however its always good to aim high
    >first. If you don't succeed you could always relax the criteria for success!"
    >
    >
    >As of Friday January 24, 2003 he has posted 85 reasons/arguments.


  3. #3
    T. Hoskins Guest

    Re: Kent, this post is for you


    "Kent" <kp@kp.org> wrote:
    >
    >Hey T,
    >
    >Thanks for the post. Pretty good stuff I was expecting to open your
    >post and get blasted for some .Not stance I had taken. This was much >better!


    Well, I am not sure what your .Not stance is. Care to share with me why
    you feel the way you do about .NET?

    It would be pretty difficult for me to blast you on your preference for using
    and advocating Java since there are a lot of similarities between the two
    technologies and both seem to have bright futures.

    While I am convinced that the rate of .NET adoption will pick up in the coming
    years, I don't care if Java remains the dominate [insert your own words here
    such as server side architecture]. I just hope there will be enough work
    to keep me employed.

    Now having said all of this, I do feel that most developers are going to
    have to make a choice (if they haven't already) between the two competing
    technologies. Imo, there is just too much to learn on either side of the
    coin.

  4. #4
    Kent Guest

    Re: Kent, this post is for you


    T,

    Don't get me started. Read my past posts, I think you'll get a feel for my
    position. Microsoft threw out VB in favor of a Java like architecture that
    classic VB does not seem to fit into very well. This alone validates Java
    as a mature platform and validates Microsoft as a company that cannot be
    trusted to produce reliable and stable products.

    The whole .Net thing feels wrong to me anyway. It's a platform that leads
    you to believe it is WORA through it's use of MISL, but the end result is
    a Windows only application. Does this make sense? The funny thing is that
    a lot of people have been dupped in to thinking .Net is open because of what
    has been done with Mono (which still crashes and hangs and is pretty much
    useless) or through the ECMA. .Net is not open. I wish the media would
    do a better job of clearing this up.

    Kent

    "T. Hoskins" <thoskins@nospam.com> wrote:
    >
    >"Kent" <kp@kp.org> wrote:
    >>
    >>Hey T,
    >>
    >>Thanks for the post. Pretty good stuff I was expecting to open your
    >>post and get blasted for some .Not stance I had taken. This was much >better!

    >
    >Well, I am not sure what your .Not stance is. Care to share with me why
    >you feel the way you do about .NET?
    >
    >It would be pretty difficult for me to blast you on your preference for

    using
    >and advocating Java since there are a lot of similarities between the two
    >technologies and both seem to have bright futures.
    >
    >While I am convinced that the rate of .NET adoption will pick up in the

    coming
    >years, I don't care if Java remains the dominate [insert your own words

    here
    >such as server side architecture]. I just hope there will be enough work
    >to keep me employed.
    >
    >Now having said all of this, I do feel that most developers are going to
    >have to make a choice (if they haven't already) between the two competing
    >technologies. Imo, there is just too much to learn on either side of the
    >coin.


  5. #5
    Miha Markic Guest

    Re: Kent, this post is for you

    The whole .Net thing feels wrong to me anyway. It's a platform that leads
    > you to believe it is WORA through it's use of MISL, but the end result is
    > a Windows only application. Does this make sense? The funny thing is

    that
    > a lot of people have been dupped in to thinking .Net is open because of

    what
    > has been done with Mono (which still crashes and hangs and is pretty much
    > useless) or through the ECMA. .Net is not open.


    It isn't? As an expert, you've probably heard of Rotor, right?

    I wish the media would
    > do a better job of clearing this up.


    Jup, media should do better job - obviously some didn't get it yet...

    Miha



  6. #6
    Kent Guest

    Re: Kent, this post is for you


    "Miha Markic" <miham@nospamDOTspinDOTsi> wrote:
    > The whole .Net thing feels wrong to me anyway. It's a platform that leads
    >> you to believe it is WORA through it's use of MISL, but the end result

    is
    >> a Windows only application. Does this make sense? The funny thing is

    >that
    >> a lot of people have been dupped in to thinking .Net is open because of

    >what
    >> has been done with Mono (which still crashes and hangs and is pretty much
    >> useless) or through the ECMA. .Net is not open.

    >
    >It isn't? As an expert, you've probably heard of Rotor, right?


    How does the existance of ROTOR make .Net open? How does it make .Net WORA?
    Answer: It doesn't. It's more of a proof of concept intended for educational
    purposes.




  7. #7
    Miha Markic Guest

    Re: Kent, this post is for you

    > >It isn't? As an expert, you've probably heard of Rotor, right?
    >
    > How does the existance of ROTOR make .Net open? How does it make .Net

    WORA?
    > Answer: It doesn't. It's more of a proof of concept intended for

    educational
    > purposes.


    What exactly is "open" for you? Isn't Mono a proof how open is .NET? Or
    ROTOR, by showing its internal workings?

    Miha



  8. #8
    Mike Mitchell Guest

    Re: Kent, this post is for you

    On 27 Jan 2003 14:35:36 -0800, "T. Hoskins" <thoskins@nospam.com>
    wrote:

    >Now having said all of this, I do feel that most developers are going to
    >have to make a choice (if they haven't already) between the two competing
    >technologies. Imo, there is just too much to learn on either side of the
    >coin.


    Since Java runs everywhere, but .Net only runs on Windows, it's a
    no-brainer of a choice, in my view. (If your comparing the two, that
    is.)

    MM

  9. #9
    Phil Weber Guest

    Re: Kent, this post is for you

    > [.NET is] a platform that leads you to believe it is WORA through
    > it's use of MSIL, but the end result is a Windows-only application...
    > A lot of people have been duped into thinking .NET is open because
    > of what has been done with Mono (which still crashes and hangs
    > and is pretty much useless)...


    "C# is done, VB is 70% done, and JavaScript is 50% done. This is good.
    Miguel demonstrated an almost unmodified version of iBuySpy...In theory, you
    could write an ASP.NET Web application today and deploy it on a Linux server
    using Mono."
    http://postneo.com/2003/01/24.html#a1844
    --
    Phil Weber



  10. #10
    Bob Guest

    Re: Kent, this post is for you


    Mike Mitchell <kylix_is@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
    >Since Java runs everywhere, but .Net only runs on Windows, it's a
    >no-brainer of a choice, in my view. (If your comparing the two, that
    >is.)

    In my view, every opinion of yours is a no-brainer.

  11. #11
    Tom Shelton Guest

    Re: Kent, this post is for you


    "Phil Weber" <pweber@nospam.fawcette.com> wrote in message
    news:3e36b955$1@tnews.web.devx.com...
    > > [.NET is] a platform that leads you to believe it is WORA through
    > > it's use of MSIL, but the end result is a Windows-only application...
    > > A lot of people have been duped into thinking .NET is open because
    > > of what has been done with Mono (which still crashes and hangs
    > > and is pretty much useless)...

    >
    > "C# is done, VB is 70% done, and JavaScript is 50% done. This is good.
    > Miguel demonstrated an almost unmodified version of iBuySpy...In theory,

    you
    > could write an ASP.NET Web application today and deploy it on a Linux

    server
    > using Mono."
    > http://postneo.com/2003/01/24.html#a1844
    > --
    > Phil Weber


    Not to mention Java....

    http://radio.weblogs.com/0109845/

    Tom Shelton



  12. #12
    Kent Guest

    Re: Kent, this post is for you


    Phil,

    Where is the specification? What is to prevent M$ from making another departure.
    Who in their right mind would deploy to it. There is no spec for the libraries.
    .Net is not open and it is not WORA. If you're expecting this, keep on
    dreaming. If you want WORA better get Java.

    Kent

    "Phil Weber" <pweber@nospam.fawcette.com> wrote:
    > > [.NET is] a platform that leads you to believe it is WORA through
    > > it's use of MSIL, but the end result is a Windows-only application...
    > > A lot of people have been duped into thinking .NET is open because
    > > of what has been done with Mono (which still crashes and hangs
    > > and is pretty much useless)...

    >
    >"C# is done, VB is 70% done, and JavaScript is 50% done. This is good.
    >Miguel demonstrated an almost unmodified version of iBuySpy...In theory,

    you
    >could write an ASP.NET Web application today and deploy it on a Linux server
    >using Mono."
    >http://postneo.com/2003/01/24.html#a1844
    >--
    >Phil Weber
    >
    >


  13. #13
    Kent Guest

    Re: Kent, this post is for you


    Open would be allowing others to participate in the growth of the platform
    and not simply allowing them to reinvent the wheel. If .Net were open outside
    participation would be welcomed. There are restrictions on ROTOR that prevent
    it from being used for anything purposeful. If you want WORA a specification
    will have to be created that will indicate what will be present in a standard
    OPEN .Net runtime. Then that runtime will have to be provided for all platforms.

    You guys are so dupped. You're eating right out of their hand. MONO and
    ROTOR are nothing more than a distraction. Microsoft makes money selling
    the Windows OS. They are scared to death of Linux. If you can write meaningful
    Applications using their tools on a free OS, how long do you think they will
    stand for it?

    Look into the patents that M$ holds on the .Net technologies. There is potential
    for law suits everywhere!

    WAKE UP PEOPLE THE M$ MATRIX HAS YOU!


    "Miha Markic" <miham@nospamDOTspinDOTsi> wrote:
    >> >It isn't? As an expert, you've probably heard of Rotor, right?

    >>
    >> How does the existance of ROTOR make .Net open? How does it make .Net

    >WORA?
    >> Answer: It doesn't. It's more of a proof of concept intended for

    >educational
    >> purposes.

    >
    >What exactly is "open" for you? Isn't Mono a proof how open is .NET? Or
    >ROTOR, by showing its internal workings?
    >
    >Miha
    >
    >


  14. #14
    Kent Guest

    Re: Kent, this post is for you


    That's just what the world needs a fragmented Java language. It's bad enough
    we have J#

    "Tom Shelton" <toms@dakcs.com> wrote:
    >
    >"Phil Weber" <pweber@nospam.fawcette.com> wrote in message
    >news:3e36b955$1@tnews.web.devx.com...
    >> > [.NET is] a platform that leads you to believe it is WORA through
    >> > it's use of MSIL, but the end result is a Windows-only application...
    >> > A lot of people have been duped into thinking .NET is open because
    >> > of what has been done with Mono (which still crashes and hangs
    >> > and is pretty much useless)...

    >>
    >> "C# is done, VB is 70% done, and JavaScript is 50% done. This is good.
    >> Miguel demonstrated an almost unmodified version of iBuySpy...In theory,

    >you
    >> could write an ASP.NET Web application today and deploy it on a Linux

    >server
    >> using Mono."
    >> http://postneo.com/2003/01/24.html#a1844
    >> --
    >> Phil Weber

    >
    >Not to mention Java....
    >
    >http://radio.weblogs.com/0109845/
    >
    >Tom Shelton
    >
    >


  15. #15
    Kent Guest

    Re: Kent, this post is for you


    "Bob" <vb.@127.0.0.1> wrote:
    >
    >Mike Mitchell <kylix_is@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
    >>Since Java runs everywhere, but .Net only runs on Windows, it's a
    >>no-brainer of a choice, in my view. (If your comparing the two, that
    >>is.)

    >In my view, every opinion of yours is a no-brainer.


    Buy some stronger glasses then. His opinion is as valid as yours.

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