What are the Advantages of VB.NET? - Page 5


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Thread: What are the Advantages of VB.NET?

  1. #61
    Larry Triezenberg Guest

    Re: What are the Advantages of VB.NET?

    Yep, I know, lots of ways to write things that work...

    "Patrick Troughton" <Patrick@Troughton.com> wrote in message
    news:3e43c0b0$1@tnews.web.devx.com...
    >
    > Hi Larry,
    >
    > It was an example.
    >
    > /Pat
    > --------------------------
    > It's the platform, stupid.
    > --------------------------
    >
    > "Larry Triezenberg" <ltriezenberg@pathsys.com> wrote:
    > >Why not eliminate the goto with:
    > >
    > >Do While blnCondition = False
    > > 'do some processing
    > > 'if NOT (some condition) then
    > > 'do some processing
    > > 'end if
    > >Loop
    > ><g>
    > >
    > >"Patrick Troughton" <Patrick@Troughton@.com> wrote in message
    > >news:3e42fe09$1@tnews.web.devx.com...
    > >>
    > >> Hi Dan,
    > >>
    > >> That would be fine with me. The only time I use GoTo is in the

    situation
    > >> I just described...
    > >>
    > >> While blnCondition = False
    > >> 'do some processing
    > >>
    > >> 'if some condition then
    > >> GoTo Continue
    > >> 'end if
    > >> 'do some processing
    > >>
    > >> Continue:
    > >> End While
    > >>
    > >> If VB ever gets a Continue statement, getting rid of GoTo would be very

    > >easy
    > >> for me to do. It pays to think ahead. Also, if I even need to port

    VB.NET
    > >> code to C#, again, it would be very easy to do.
    > >>
    > >> /Pat
    > >> --------------------------
    > >> It's the platform, stupid.
    > >> --------------------------

    >




  2. #62
    Kent Guest

    Re: What are the Advantages of VB.NET?


    Pat,

    I've covered this already. It is M$'s repsonsibility to solve the problem.
    It is sad that they will not. They created the problem they should solve
    it.

    I myslef could care less about gosubs, I have not used them since the BASCOM
    days.

    The point we have made over and over again that you do not want to see, is
    that there is no reason to have removed gosub in the first place. No one
    is forcing you to use it.

    Someone at M$ sits on high and makes decisions without THINKING about how
    it will harm others.

    The changes that get made to VB with out the consideration of others is a
    great reason to use C#

    How does one gosub converter fix all the remaining incompatibilities?

    Kent

    "Patrick Troughton" <Patrick@Troughton.com> wrote:
    >
    >Hi Kent, Bob,
    >
    >A while back, someone was kind enough to go to the trouble of developing
    >his own GoSub=>Sub converter exactly for these purposes. If memory serves
    >me correctly, he even offered to give it away for free. But his efforts

    were
    >promptly shot down by the .NOTters. It's sad, but you can't help people

    who
    >don't want to be helped.
    >
    >/Pat
    >--------------------------
    >It's the platform, stupid.
    >--------------------------
    >
    >"Kent" <kp@kp.org> wrote:
    >>
    >>Bob,
    >>
    >>You hold the record on moronic posts. You think if you poo poo the problems
    >>of others long enough that you're helping the situation?
    >>
    >>Kent
    >>
    >>"Bob" <vb@127.0.0.1> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>Mike Mitchell <kylix_is@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
    >>>>On 6 Feb 2003 11:25:10 -0800, "Bob" <vb@127.0.0.1> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>The obsolete GoSub command, for one.

    >
    >



  3. #63
    Phil Weber Guest

    Re: What are the Advantages of VB.NET?

    > There is no reason to have removed gosub in the
    > first place.


    Kent: GoSub was not "removed," it was omitted -- do you understand the
    distinction? -- due to schedule pressure. MS decided that shipping .NET ASAP
    was more important than implementing every item on every wishlist, so it
    chose to omit those features it deemed non-essential.
    --
    Phil Weber


  4. #64
    Patrick Troughton Guest

    Re: What are the Advantages of VB.NET?


    Hi Kent,

    "Kent" <kp@kp.org> wrote:
    >
    >I've covered this already. It is M$'s repsonsibility to solve the problem.


    As have I. So I won't rehash this discussion.

    > It is sad that they will not. They created the problem they should solve
    >it.


    You are partially correct. While it's true that the Upgrade Wizard and compatibility
    namespace are not perfect, it is also true they are not done. They continue
    to work on it. In the next release of VB.NET, for example, the Upgrade Wizard
    adds support for UserControls. There will also be a code snippet upgrade
    tool. Is this enough? No. But to say that they not trying to solve it simply
    isn't true.

    >I myslef could care less about gosubs, I have not used them since the BASCOM
    >days.
    >
    >The point we have made over and over again that you do not want to see,

    is
    >that there is no reason to have removed gosub in the first place. No one
    >is forcing you to use it.


    No, I've understand these two points, but I don't agree with either of them.


    First, GoSub is a relic from times when VB didn't have real subroutines.
    I used to use GoSubs, too. But I gave them up years ago because I discovered
    that Sub...End Sub provides a much better alternative. GoSub is unstructured
    and has no place in a modern language such as VB (Classic or .NET). If MS
    had removed them at the same time they removed DEF FN functions, we wouldn't
    even be discussing it at this point.

    Second, you have no idea who is going to end up maintaining your code after
    you're gone. Even if you have no plans to quit, you may be transferred, laid
    off or have found a better job. I get the feeling that those who defend GoSub
    and GoTo have never had the misfortune of maintain somebody else's crappy
    code. Well, I've been in that situation and it's not a pleasant experience.


    So, I do understand your points, I just disagree.

    In any case, I'm *not* trying to argue the merits of removing GoSub. What's
    done is done and nothing will change that now. Let's agree to disagree then
    on this point, OK?

    What I am saying is that you can either choose to be pragmatic and look for
    practical solutions to your problems, or you can simply complain in a newsgroup
    day after day, year after year and accomplish nothing.

    You may not know this but I have been programming in VB over 5 years, and
    QuickBasic before that. Lack of compatibility hurts me as well as you. The
    difference is that I'm trying to do what I think is constructive. Condemning
    that poor guy who wrote the GoSub=>Sub converter isn't my idea of being helpful
    or constructive.

    >Someone at M$ sits on high and makes decisions without THINKING about how
    >it will harm others.
    >
    >The changes that get made to VB with out the consideration of others is

    a
    >great reason to use C#


    Actually, they did consult with VB6 developers. It may be hard for you to
    understand this, but many of us VB6 developers like VB.NET. In fact, I would
    guess that virtually every person here who is defending VB.NET is (or at
    least was) a VB6 developer.

    >How does one gosub converter fix all the remaining incompatibilities?


    It won't, but it helps.

    /Pat
    --------------------------
    It's the platform, stupid.
    --------------------------


  5. #65
    Kunle Odutola Guest

    Re: What are the Advantages of VB.NET?

    Paulo Costa wrote:
    > Sandhya and Kent,
    >
    > Kent is right. VB.Net was supposed to be the upgrade of Visual Basic
    > 6 but it isn't. VB.Net syntax is not compatible with Visual Basic.


    Paulo,

    Sandhya did NOT ask about VB6 at all. Is it too much to ask that you offer
    real help to newbies and reserve your well-trodden rants for veterans of the
    ..NOT/.NET campaign?

    Kunle


  6. #66
    blob Guest

    Re: What are the Advantages of VB.NET?


    "Bob" <vb@127.0.0.1> wrote:
    >
    >"blob" <blob@blobbloblboblo.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>"Bob" <vb@127.0.0.1> wrote:
    >>>

    >>Yeah, tell him the truth. It adds all the **** that you mentioned so you
    >>don't have to use real programming languages and actually learn something.

    >
    >You say _you_ use a real programming language, but apparantly it hasnt'

    taught
    >you anything.
    >


    What the **** are you yapping about?

  7. #67
    Kent Guest

    Re: What are the Advantages of VB.NET?


    "blob" <blob@blobblobblob.com> wrote:
    >
    >"Bob" <vb@127.0.0.1> wrote:
    >>
    >>"blob" <blob@blobbloblboblo.com> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>"Bob" <vb@127.0.0.1> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>Yeah, tell him the truth. It adds all the **** that you mentioned so

    you
    >>>don't have to use real programming languages and actually learn something.

    >>
    >>You say _you_ use a real programming language, but apparantly it hasnt'

    >taught
    >>you anything.
    >>

    >
    >What the **** are you yapping about?


    He doesn't even know he's been spelling his name backwards.



  8. #68
    Bob Guest

    Re: What are the Advantages of VB.NET?


    "Kent" <kp@kp.org> wrote:
    >
    >"blob" <blob@blobblobblob.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>"Bob" <vb@127.0.0.1> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>"blob" <blob@blobbloblboblo.com> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>"Bob" <vb@127.0.0.1> wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>Yeah, tell him the truth. It adds all the **** that you mentioned so

    >you
    >>>>don't have to use real programming languages and actually learn something.
    >>>
    >>>You say _you_ use a real programming language, but apparantly it hasnt'

    >>taught
    >>>you anything.
    >>>

    >>
    >>What the **** are you yapping about?

    >
    >He doesn't even know he's been spelling his name backwards.
    >
    >

    You two. Your wit is as quick as J-a-v-a.

  9. #69
    blob Guest

    Re: What are the Advantages of VB.NET?


    "Kent" <kp@kp.org> wrote:
    >
    >"blob" <blob@blobblobblob.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>"Bob" <vb@127.0.0.1> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>"blob" <blob@blobbloblboblo.com> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>"Bob" <vb@127.0.0.1> wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>Yeah, tell him the truth. It adds all the **** that you mentioned so

    >you
    >>>>don't have to use real programming languages and actually learn something.
    >>>
    >>>You say _you_ use a real programming language, but apparantly it hasnt'

    >>taught
    >>>you anything.
    >>>

    >>
    >>What the **** are you yapping about?

    >
    >He doesn't even know he's been spelling his name backwards.
    >
    >


    Hey, that was funny.


  10. #70
    Dan Barclay Guest

    Re: What are the Advantages of VB.NET?

    On Fri, 7 Feb 2003 10:07:35 -0800, "Phil Weber"
    <pweber@nospam.fawcette.com> wrote:

    > > There is no reason to have removed gosub in the
    > > first place.

    >
    >Kent: GoSub was not "removed," it was omitted -- do you understand the
    >distinction? -- due to schedule pressure.


    Yes, this is what I was told initially as well. I was also told by
    the compiler dev that it was *hard* to implement. I've shown
    elsewhere here that it isn't.

    > MS decided that shipping .NET ASAP
    >was more important than implementing every item on every wishlist, so it
    >chose to omit those features it deemed non-essential.


    Funny that we're coming up on the second (or is it third) release of
    new bits and it still hasn't shown up. Sounds like they've slipped
    from schedule reasoning back to "go ahead, break my code" reasoning.

    Dan
    Language Stability is a *feature* I wish VB had!
    (#6)/(#1!)
    Error 51
    Error 3
    Error 9
    ....

  11. #71
    Dan Barclay Guest

    Re: What are the Advantages of VB.NET?

    On Fri, 7 Feb 2003 12:19:50 +0100, "Patrice Scribe" <scribe@chez.com>
    wrote:

    >Integer being 32 bits was done IMO for consistency across languages. A
    >VB.NET Integer is the same than a C# int.


    Yes, but it would seem that priorities would have said it would be
    important to be consistent *within* a language before you worry about
    consistencies between languages.

    Integer has been 16 bits since CP/M and TRSDOS (8 bit) versions of
    Basic. Somehow it's made the transition to 16 bit and 32 bit OS's
    intact and now it's important to change it?

    >Though this is a problem for now this is IMO better on the long run.


    How so? An integer that is system dependent is a *new type of data*
    for Basic. It needs a *new data type*.

    >Similarly arrays were once declared with the length rather than the upper
    >bound and it was undone (do you want to favor backward compatibility or
    >consistency across the new platform ?)


    I favor forward compatibility of completed code. The new platform
    supports upper and lower bounded lengths natively, right? So,
    because C# lacks this capability we should restrict Basic???

    >I don't really see the point about having a system dependant integer as you
    >run with a runtime.


    Again, if you have a new type of data, create a new data type.

    It only matters if you think you need an integer whose size changes
    with platform or environment. I don't, which means I'd probably still
    declare specific sized data (Integer or Long). However, for those who
    think Integer needs to be 32bits now (or 64/128 bits later), all they
    have to do is start using SysInt.

    > If you really want to recompile on a different platform
    >you could use something like :
    >
    >Imports SysInt=System.Int32


    If you created the new datatype, the compiler could do that for you
    and base it on the environment automatically. What you're describing
    would create what should have been done for Integer.

    Dan
    Language Stability is a *feature* I wish VB had!
    (#6)/(#1!)
    Error 51
    Error 3
    Error 9
    ....

  12. #72
    Dan Barclay Guest

    Re: What are the Advantages of VB.NET?

    On Fri, 7 Feb 2003 19:11:32 -0000, "Kunle Odutola"
    <kunle.odutola@REMOVETHISokocha.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

    >Paulo Costa wrote:
    >> Sandhya and Kent,
    >>
    >> Kent is right. VB.Net was supposed to be the upgrade of Visual Basic
    >> 6 but it isn't. VB.Net syntax is not compatible with Visual Basic.

    >
    >Paulo,
    >
    >Sandhya did NOT ask about VB6 at all. Is it too much to ask that you offer
    >real help to newbies and reserve your well-trodden rants for veterans of the
    >.NOT/.NET campaign?


    You are right, she did not.

    How they treat this "upgrade" is only important if you believe past
    behavior will predict future behavior. If you believe this (most
    humans do, instinctively) then behavior prior to this change is also
    applicable.

    It's kind of an ugly story, isn't it?

    Dan
    Language Stability is a *feature* I wish VB had!
    (#6)/(#1!)
    Error 51
    Error 3
    Error 9
    ....

  13. #73
    Kent Guest

    Re: What are the Advantages of VB.NET?


    Dan is right! A question was asked and an appropriate answer was given.
    Enough said. Time should not be wasted learning VB.Net. I hope the posts
    were found to be of value.

    There are no REAL advantages in using VB.Net over another .Net language.
    It's the platform stupid!

    Kent

    Dan Barclay <Dan@MVPs.org> wrote:
    >On Fri, 7 Feb 2003 19:11:32 -0000, "Kunle Odutola"
    ><kunle.odutola@REMOVETHISokocha.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
    >
    >>Paulo Costa wrote:
    >>> Sandhya and Kent,
    >>>
    >>> Kent is right. VB.Net was supposed to be the upgrade of Visual Basic
    >>> 6 but it isn't. VB.Net syntax is not compatible with Visual Basic.

    >>
    >>Paulo,
    >>
    >>Sandhya did NOT ask about VB6 at all. Is it too much to ask that you offer
    >>real help to newbies and reserve your well-trodden rants for veterans of

    the
    >>.NOT/.NET campaign?

    >
    >You are right, she did not.
    >
    >How they treat this "upgrade" is only important if you believe past
    >behavior will predict future behavior. If you believe this (most
    >humans do, instinctively) then behavior prior to this change is also
    >applicable.
    >
    >It's kind of an ugly story, isn't it?
    >
    >Dan
    >Language Stability is a *feature* I wish VB had!
    > (#6)/(#1!)
    >Error 51
    >Error 3
    >Error 9
    >....


  14. #74
    Mark Jerde Guest

    Re: What are the Advantages of VB.NET?

    > >Kent: GoSub was not "removed," it was omitted -- do you understand the
    > >distinction? -- due to schedule pressure.

    >
    > Yes, this is what I was told initially as well. I was also told by
    > the compiler dev that it was *hard* to implement. I've shown
    > elsewhere here that it isn't.


    LOL! Yeah, a local jump and return in assembly, no popping or pushing?
    Trivial, at least in 1977-1982 when I earned my CS degree!

    -- Mark



  15. #75
    Dan Barclay Guest

    Re: What are the Advantages of VB.NET?



    On Fri, 7 Feb 2003 20:12:43 -0500, "Mark Jerde"
    <mark.jerde@verizon.no.spam.net> wrote:

    >> >Kent: GoSub was not "removed," it was omitted -- do you understand the
    >> >distinction? -- due to schedule pressure.

    >>
    >> Yes, this is what I was told initially as well. I was also told by
    >> the compiler dev that it was *hard* to implement. I've shown
    >> elsewhere here that it isn't.

    >
    >LOL! Yeah, a local jump and return in assembly, no popping or pushing?
    >Trivial, at least in 1977-1982 when I earned my CS degree!


    NO. Pay attention, boy. The reason they thought it was hard was that
    they couldn't think outside this same box. Once they added With and
    some other crutches it made some of the call/return processes quite
    difficult.

    However, code substitution allows this to be done, and be done with
    zero overhead.

    Dan
    Language Stability is a *feature* I wish VB had!
    (#6)/(#1!)
    Error 51
    Error 3
    Error 9
    ....

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