Why I'm abandoning VB.NET after 6 months


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Thread: Why I'm abandoning VB.NET after 6 months

  1. #1
    RMReynolds Guest

    Why I'm abandoning VB.NET after 6 months


    WHY I AM ABANDONING VB.NET AFTER SIX MONTHS OF DEVELOPMENT:

    I am a software developer for a company that I own. I have spent half a year
    migrating from Visual Basic 6.0 to VB.NET. I completed a project for release
    in VB.NET a month ago. That is when my .NET nightmare began.

    The installation and deployment project in Visual Studio does not, and cannot,
    install the .NET framework. This oversight can be worked around by a setup
    program published on the MSDN site, but this results in a tiny non-descript
    dialog box being displayed for LONG time while the .NET framework SLOWLY
    infiltrates the operating system. Alot of end-users would think the installation
    was STUCK. WHY does it take so LONG for just 20MB to load from a CD? The
    hard drive bangs around like every system file in the computer is being rewritten.

    There are third-party products, such as InstallShield, that try to approach
    this problem. However when InstallShield runs dotnetfx.exe, the progress
    bar on the dialog box runs over and over, and again, giving the end-user
    the impression that the installation is STUCK.

    Secondly, dotnetfx.exe has MULTIPLE depdendicies. NOT everyone has wide-band
    internet access. Leaving out Win 95 users hurts the potential market in a
    product, but the .NET framework goes way beyond that. The computer must have
    Internet Explorer version 5.1 or higher, MDAC, etc. What if a user deleted
    IE and is using another web browser? Again, InstallShield helps here partially,
    but the installation STOPS if IE 5.1 or higher isn't there. <sigh>

    Also, in the limited beta testing I did, some systems that did have all of
    the many dependencies present would CHOKE during the .NET framework infiltration
    and it would then ABORT after giving out a cryptic error message. Not what
    you want an end-user to see or deal with.

    I would suggest that Microsoft develops just ONE LARGE FILE that contains
    ALL OF THE MANY DEPENDENCIES for a NET application, and that during installation,
    any dependency (IE 5.01, etc.) will automatically install, but only IF approved
    by the end-user. Also, the progress bar in the install dialog should really
    represent what is going on. ALso, it would be nice if they installation could
    be speeded up so it doesn't feel like you are loading in a new operating
    system.

    For me, and I imagine many others, I've abandoned what is otherwise a really
    wonderful new language and programming environment. However I would go BROKE
    with technical support phone calls regarding installation issues if I tried
    to send out a .NET Windows application now.

    I'm back to VB 6.0 for my next project. <sigh>

    Robert Reynolds
    First Solo Software
    rmr7718@swbell.net


  2. #2
    Al Guten Guest

    Re: Why I'm abandoning VB.NET after 6 months


    "RMReynolds" <vb.@127.0.0.1> wrote:
    >
    >WHY I AM ABANDONING VB.NET AFTER SIX MONTHS OF DEVELOPMENT:
    > ...


    Version 1.0 syndrome, and we all struggle with you on this one.

    As with most products having it on the shevles is more critical then having
    it perfect. I'm sure you realize it, but you are not abandoning .NET, just
    delaying it. Althought I absolutely agree, VB6 might be best for your near
    term projects, just depends on requirements.

    Best of luck!

  3. #3
    Dave Guest

    Re: Why I'm abandoning VB.NET after 6 months


    "RMReynolds" <vb.@127.0.0.1> wrote:
    >
    >WHY I AM ABANDONING VB.NET AFTER SIX MONTHS OF DEVELOPMENT:
    >


    You gotta admit that it's a fun toy though..

    Same here - the logistics of installing .NET apps is formidable - which is
    kind of ironic since it was supposed to make this part so easy (it will eventually
    when everyone's machine has the framework).

    In the meantime, I'm playing with my hobby apps in .NET so I'm ready for
    the leap to using .NET for production.



  4. #4
    John Butler Guest

    Re: Why I'm abandoning VB.NET after 6 months


    "RMReynolds" <vb.@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
    news:3dd425e2$1@tnews.web.devx.com...
    >


    > There are third-party products, such as InstallShield, that try to

    approach
    > this problem. However when InstallShield runs dotnetfx.exe, the progress
    > bar on the dialog box runs over and over, and again, giving the end-user
    > the impression that the installation is STUCK.


    Have you tried Wise? Works for me...although I haven't run into the Internet
    Explorer issue you describe. My customer base is not as wide, they all have
    IE5.5+ installed...which makes it easier. I would give Wise a try though...

    rgds
    John Butler



  5. #5
    Jason Sobell \(iGadget\) Guest

    Re: Why I'm abandoning VB.NET after 6 months

    This was my thought too when I read Robert's post.
    I have almost never used the built-in VB6 installer, so I suppose I didn't
    expect much of the VB.NET one either
    Wise is a very nice system, although I haven't tried it with .NET yet.

    Cheers,
    Jason

    "John Butler" <nospamjrbutler@btinternet.com> wrote in message
    news:3dd43d87$1@tnews.web.devx.com...
    >
    > "RMReynolds" <vb.@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
    > news:3dd425e2$1@tnews.web.devx.com...
    > >

    >
    > > There are third-party products, such as InstallShield, that try to

    > approach
    > > this problem. However when InstallShield runs dotnetfx.exe, the progress
    > > bar on the dialog box runs over and over, and again, giving the end-user
    > > the impression that the installation is STUCK.

    >
    > Have you tried Wise? Works for me...although I haven't run into the

    Internet
    > Explorer issue you describe. My customer base is not as wide, they all

    have
    > IE5.5+ installed...which makes it easier. I would give Wise a try

    though...
    >
    > rgds
    > John Butler
    >
    >




  6. #6
    Mike Mitchell Guest

    Re: Why I'm abandoning VB.NET after 6 months

    On 14 Nov 2002 14:38:26 -0700, "RMReynolds" <vb.@127.0.0.1> wrote:

    >I'm back to VB 6.0 for my next project. <sigh>


    Good "old" VB6 wins again! I even received a flyer today for training
    courses in VB6 well into 2003. Some folks just won't allow it to die.

    MM

  7. #7
    Mike Mitchell Guest

    Re: Why I'm abandoning VB.NET after 6 months

    On 14 Nov 2002 15:19:03 -0700, "Dave" <dave_doknjas@yahoo.ca> wrote:

    >In the meantime, I'm playing with my hobby apps in .NET so I'm ready for
    >the leap to using .NET for production.


    Leap, eh? Best lemming joke I've heard this week!

    MM

  8. #8
    Dave Guest

    Re: Why I'm abandoning VB.NET after 6 months


    Mike Mitchell <kylix_is@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
    >On 14 Nov 2002 15:19:03 -0700, "Dave" <dave_doknjas@yahoo.ca> wrote:
    >
    >>In the meantime, I'm playing with my hobby apps in .NET so I'm ready for
    >>the leap to using .NET for production.

    >
    >Leap, eh? Best lemming joke I've heard this week!
    >
    >MM


    Some of you may be interested in my own experience starting off as a .NOT'er
    and switching recently purely for financial reasons (i.e., I want to work
    10 years from now).

    I started off about half a year ago with the intent on moving to .NET. I
    was put off at first by the verbose translations the Upgrade Wizard was making
    of my VB6 code. Also, my first trial upgrade produced 2000 errors/warnings!
    So I threw in the towel for a couple of months. A few months ago, I gave
    it another try - staring small - upgrading just my own hobby apps and one
    small production app. With a little help from this newsgroup, I found that
    VB.NET really isn't so complex - many of the verbose translations created
    by the Upgrade Wizard could be simplified (e.g., App.ProductionName is just
    Application.ProductName).

    If you're willing to tough it out for a few weeks to acclimatize, you'll
    find that your code can remain as simple as it always was, in the spirit
    of VB6. Actually simpler, if you notice that some things like registry access
    is astoundingly simpler.

    The real hurdle now is the fact that my main client (NBC Television's Olympics
    Unit) would need to buy in to the upgrade to .NET. With previous versions,
    the client would not know or care which version of VB I was using. I would
    like to switch everything to .NET next month but it can't be done seamlessly.

    Dave Doknjas

  9. #9
    PWilmarth Guest

    Re: Why I'm abandoning VB.NET after 6 months


    A simplified programming model was one of the goals of .NET and I think you
    have given a nice testimony that Microsoft accomplished this goal.

  10. #10
    Dave Guest

    Re: Why I'm abandoning VB.NET after 6 months


    "PWilmarth" <pwilmarth80231@msn.com> wrote:
    >
    >A simplified programming model was one of the goals of .NET and I think

    you
    >have given a nice testimony that Microsoft accomplished this goal.


    Yes, 95% of my code is either identical or as simple as the VB6 version.
    Almost 5% is easier (stuff like registry access). Less than 1% I would call
    'more verbose' than VB6, but I'm finding some shortcuts.



  11. #11
    Paulo Costa Guest

    Re: Why I'm abandoning VB.NET after 6 months

    "RMReynolds" <vb.@127.0.0.1> wrote:
    >
    > WHY I AM ABANDONING VB.NET AFTER SIX MONTHS OF DEVELOPMENT:


    Hi Robert,

    I've not looked at VB.net seriously yet for real world programming for many
    other reasons. The experience you shared here gaves me more reasons to
    continue keeping VB.net as an hobby. Good old VB6.

    Paulo Costa
    -----------
    VB.net could have been implemented without
    losing *Language Compatibility* with VB6.






  12. #12
    Franklin E. Vargas Guest

    Re: Why I'm abandoning VB.NET after 6 months


    Is this a case of VB 6 winning or of coming to understand your customers'
    (clients' or users') requirements? In this thread, we have been discussing
    percentages on the differences between VB 6 and VB.NET. In my opinion, a
    more interesting percentage is on the actual number of users that now host
    the CLR on their systems as opposed to those having the VB 6 run-time. If
    you needed to make changes to an existing application, it appears that you
    may need to keep it in VB 6 for some time. However, if the application needed
    to become a Web application instead, it may make more sense to use .NET--depending
    on the runtimes provided in your web server or database servers.

    ============ YOU WROTE

    Mike Mitchell <kylix_is@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
    >On 14 Nov 2002 14:38:26 -0700, "RMReynolds" <vb.@127.0.0.1> wrote:
    >
    >>I'm back to VB 6.0 for my next project. <sigh>

    >
    >Good "old" VB6 wins again! I even received a flyer today for training
    >courses in VB6 well into 2003. Some folks just won't allow it to die.
    >
    >MM



  13. #13
    True Neutral Guest

    Re: Why I'm abandoning VB.NET after 6 months


    I am a software developer for a company with around 500 users. We started
    migration to VB.NET the day it was released last year. While I will not
    say that we automatically knew everything about how to accomplish this migration,
    I must concede that MS is not psychic either.

    For our self contained universe, though, we are able to control the enviroment,
    and therefore prevent many issues from developing.

    <RANT>
    How much compatibility, ease of use, ease of migration, etc... did you expect
    from MS Word 1.0, Windows 95, or Excel 1.0? These were first versions.
    We all know that version 1.0 of any MS product is really a BETA in disguise.

    Speaking from 20+ years of experience in software developement, NO ONE should
    attempt to distribute software to the general public that relies in any way
    on a BETA or version 1.0 of ANY product. To do so is not only foolish (as
    you seem to have verified), it is also irresponsible.
    </RANT>

    My advice:
    1. Wait for version 2.0 this year before you attempt to write a general release
    application.
    2. Abandon the idea at your own peril.

    ---------------------------
    True Neutral


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