Why should I use VB when Microsoft won't?


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Thread: Why should I use VB when Microsoft won't?

  1. #1
    jack Guest

    Why should I use VB when Microsoft won't?


    For all it's virtues why should I bother with VB Classic (and probably VB.net)
    if MS isn't willing to use it for serious in house development?

    The fact that VC++ 7 can do unmanaged (read WIN32) as well as .NET development,
    flags an intent to continue using their existing codebase for future development.

    However, the difficulties (impossiblities?) of converting nontrivial VB apps
    clearly tells me that MS has no significant ongoing VB based apps.

    In all in all, does MS plan on using VB.NET for any of its development? If
    not why not?

    And if not, why should my employer make long term plans arround a tool whose
    manufacturer seems unwilling to take seriously?

    jack.

  2. #2
    Bob Guest

    Re: Why should I use VB when Microsoft won't?

    How about using the appropriate tool for the job?

    DEC wrote all their compilers in Bliss and then C++. Are you saying that an
    IBM RPG shop that migrated to a VAX or Alpha should have rewritten all their
    RPG code in Bliss or C++ instead of using the DEC RPG compiler?

    Bob

    "jack" <jack@iname.com> wrote in message news:3b656df9$1@news.devx.com...
    >
    > For all it's virtues why should I bother with VB Classic (and probably

    VB.net)
    > if MS isn't willing to use it for serious in house development?
    >
    > The fact that VC++ 7 can do unmanaged (read WIN32) as well as .NET

    development,
    > flags an intent to continue using their existing codebase for future

    development.
    >
    > However, the difficulties (impossiblities?) of converting nontrivial VB

    apps
    > clearly tells me that MS has no significant ongoing VB based apps.
    >
    > In all in all, does MS plan on using VB.NET for any of its development? If
    > not why not?
    >
    > And if not, why should my employer make long term plans arround a tool

    whose
    > manufacturer seems unwilling to take seriously?
    >
    > jack.



  3. #3
    Joe \Nuke Me Xemu\ Foster Guest

    Re: Why should I use VB when Microsoft won't?

    "Bob" <tooslow42@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:3b6573e9$1@news.devx.com...

    > How about using the appropriate tool for the job?


    Are you saying that VB was never the appropriate tool for Microsoft
    internal code, that Visual C++ really is the One True Language?

    > DEC wrote all their compilers in Bliss and then C++. Are you saying that an
    > IBM RPG shop that migrated to a VAX or Alpha should have rewritten all their
    > RPG code in Bliss or C++ instead of using the DEC RPG compiler?


    Yes, that is what Microsoft is saying.

    What do you want to rewrite today?

    --
    Joe Foster <mailto:jfoster@ricochet.net> Kraz[CENSORED]! <http://www.xenu.net/>
    WARNING: I cannot be held responsible for the above They're coming to
    because my cats have apparently learned to type. take me away, ha ha!



  4. #4
    Jonathan Allen Guest

    Re: Why should I use VB when Microsoft won't?

    > For all it's virtues why should I bother with VB Classic (and probably
    VB.net)
    > if MS isn't willing to use it for serious in house development?


    Some MS products are written entirely in VB. The best example is probably
    Solomon IV, an accounting program designed for large companies. (Ok,
    technically part of it was in C++, as it uses SQL Server, but that doesn't
    really count.).


    --
    Jonathan Allen


    "jack" <jack@iname.com> wrote in message news:3b656df9$1@news.devx.com...
    >
    > For all it's virtues why should I bother with VB Classic (and probably

    VB.net)
    > if MS isn't willing to use it for serious in house development?
    >
    > The fact that VC++ 7 can do unmanaged (read WIN32) as well as .NET

    development,
    > flags an intent to continue using their existing codebase for future

    development.
    >
    > However, the difficulties (impossiblities?) of converting nontrivial VB

    apps
    > clearly tells me that MS has no significant ongoing VB based apps.
    >
    > In all in all, does MS plan on using VB.NET for any of its development? If
    > not why not?
    >
    > And if not, why should my employer make long term plans arround a tool

    whose
    > manufacturer seems unwilling to take seriously?
    >
    > jack.




  5. #5
    Bob Guest

    Re: Why should I use VB when Microsoft won't?

    Joe,

    "Joe "Nuke Me Xemu" Foster" <joe@bftsi0.UUCP> wrote in message
    news:3b658daa@news.devx.com...
    > "Bob" <tooslow42@yahoo.com> wrote in message

    news:3b6573e9$1@news.devx.com...
    >
    > > How about using the appropriate tool for the job?

    >
    > Are you saying that VB was never the appropriate tool for Microsoft
    > internal code, that Visual C++ really is the One True Language?
    >


    No. I'm saying that he should use the appropriate tool for the job
    regardless of what MS does.

    > > DEC wrote all their compilers in Bliss and then C++. Are you saying that

    an
    > > IBM RPG shop that migrated to a VAX or Alpha should have rewritten all

    their
    > > RPG code in Bliss or C++ instead of using the DEC RPG compiler?

    >
    > Yes, that is what Microsoft is saying.
    >

    Nope. In my example above, an RPG developer has very little chance of doing
    a successful RPG to Bliss/C++ conversion. In the case of VB6 to VB.NET, the
    VB developer has an excellent chance of making the conversion. But, you knew
    that anyway.

    Bob



  6. #6
    Phil Weber Guest

    Re: Why should I use VB when Microsoft won't?

    > For all it's virtues why should I bother with VB Classic
    > (and probably VB.net) if MS isn't willing to use it for serious
    > in-house development?


    Jack: How do you know that MS hasn't used VB for "serious" in-house
    development?
    ---
    Phil Weber



  7. #7
    Joe \Nuke Me Xemu\ Foster Guest

    Re: Why should I use VB when Microsoft won't?

    "Jonathan Allen" <greywolf@cts.com> wrote in message <news:3b65a8d7@news.devx.com>...

    > > For all it's virtues why should I bother with VB Classic (and probably

    > VB.net)
    > > if MS isn't willing to use it for serious in house development?

    >
    > Some MS products are written entirely in VB. The best example is probably
    > Solomon IV, an accounting program designed for large companies. (Ok,
    > technically part of it was in C++, as it uses SQL Server, but that doesn't
    > really count.).


    Didn't Microsoft assimilate Great Plains after the latter had developed
    Solomon? Was Microsoft Money developed *by Microsoft* in VB, or did they
    Borg that as well?

    --
    Joe Foster <mailto:jfoster@ricochet.net> Got Thetans? <http://www.xenu.net/>
    WARNING: I cannot be held responsible for the above They're coming to
    because my cats have apparently learned to type. take me away, ha ha!



  8. #8
    David Owen Guest

    Re: Why should I use VB when Microsoft won't?

    I'm going to jump in here and correct a couple of points:

    "Joe "Nuke Me Xemu" Foster" <joe@bftsi0.UUCP> wrote in message
    news:3b65c151@news.devx.com...
    > Didn't Microsoft assimilate Great Plains after the latter had developed
    > Solomon? Was Microsoft Money developed *by Microsoft* in VB, or did they
    > Borg that as well?


    Great Plains and Solomon were competing accounting packages, independently
    developed. Solomon was based pretty much entirely on VB3, while Great
    Plains was actually developed in some proprietary knock-off of C.


    "Jonathan Allen" <greywolf@cts.com> wrote in message
    <news:3b65a8d7@news.devx.com>...
    > > Some MS products are written entirely in VB. The best example is

    probably
    > > Solomon IV, an accounting program designed for large companies. (Ok,
    > > technically part of it was in C++, as it uses SQL Server, but that

    doesn't
    > > really count.).


    I've been in and around a Solomon implementation, and I would only very
    hesitantly use "Solomon" and "best example" in the same breath. Solomon
    was, shall we say, stability-challenged.

    Great Plains was acquired by Microsoft within the past 12 months or so,
    which made a lot of sense. From a development standpoint they were already
    quite tightly integrated with the MS tools. Solomon was later purchased /
    bought out ( someone correct me on this one) by Great Plains (much to the
    joy of Solomon installations everywhere).

    HTH

    David



  9. #9
    Larry Linson Guest

    Re: Why should I use VB when Microsoft won't?

    Comment: Some pundits (anybody who wants a citation, go find it yourself),
    in IT trade publications, stated their suspicion that Microsoft's
    acquisition of Great Plains was to extend their market to replace the little
    guys who'd been their "partners". That is, replace with packaged software
    set up by Microsoft SEs, the packages provided to small businesses by ISVs
    and VARs and MCSDs in the modest-sized clients. Then, they'd figure a way to
    extend it to the smallest mom-and-pop shops and mop up the rest of the
    marketplace.




  10. #10
    John Butler Guest

    Re: Why should I use VB when Microsoft won't?


    "Larry Linson" <larry.linson@ntpcug.org> wrote in message
    news:3b65dc6e$1@news.devx.com...
    > Comment: Some pundits (anybody who wants a citation, go find it yourself),
    > in IT trade publications, stated their suspicion that Microsoft's
    > acquisition of Great Plains was to extend their market to replace the

    little
    > guys who'd been their "partners". That is, replace with packaged software
    > set up by Microsoft SEs, the packages provided to small businesses by ISVs
    > and VARs and MCSDs in the modest-sized clients. Then, they'd figure a way

    to
    > extend it to the smallest mom-and-pop shops and mop up the rest of the
    > marketplace.
    >
    >
    >


    Nothing new there then.... <sigh>

    Rgds
    John Butler




  11. #11
    Zane Thomas Guest

    Re: Why should I use VB when Microsoft won't?

    On Mon, 30 Jul 2001 23:37:38 +0100, "John Butler" <jrbutler@btclick.com>
    wrote:

    >Nothing new there then...


    Yep, pundits are a dime a dozen. :-)


    --
    The nice thing about standards is that
    there are so many of them to choose from.

  12. #12
    John Butler Guest

    Re: Why should I use VB when Microsoft won't?


    "Phil Weber" <pweber@devx.com> wrote in message
    news:3b659ad7$1@news.devx.com...
    > > For all it's virtues why should I bother with VB Classic
    > > (and probably VB.net) if MS isn't willing to use it for serious
    > > in-house development?

    >
    > Jack: How do you know that MS hasn't used VB for "serious" in-house
    > development?
    > ---
    > Phil Weber
    >
    >


    I don't know about "in-house" development, but I can't think of too many
    commercially distributed MS examples....except sometimes tools (downloaded
    from the KB) that patched or un-broke some or other MS product...

    Rgds
    John Butler




  13. #13
    Jonathan Allen Guest

    Re: Why should I use VB when Microsoft won't?

    > Didn't Microsoft assimilate Great Plains after the latter had developed
    > Solomon? Was Microsoft Money developed *by Microsoft* in VB, or did they
    > Borg that as well?


    Does it matter?

    --
    Jonathan Allen


    "Joe "Nuke Me Xemu" Foster" <joe@bftsi0.UUCP> wrote in message
    news:3b65c151@news.devx.com...
    > "Jonathan Allen" <greywolf@cts.com> wrote in message

    <news:3b65a8d7@news.devx.com>...
    >
    > > > For all it's virtues why should I bother with VB Classic (and probably

    > > VB.net)
    > > > if MS isn't willing to use it for serious in house development?

    > >
    > > Some MS products are written entirely in VB. The best example is

    probably
    > > Solomon IV, an accounting program designed for large companies. (Ok,
    > > technically part of it was in C++, as it uses SQL Server, but that

    doesn't
    > > really count.).

    >
    > Didn't Microsoft assimilate Great Plains after the latter had developed
    > Solomon? Was Microsoft Money developed *by Microsoft* in VB, or did they
    > Borg that as well?
    >
    > --
    > Joe Foster <mailto:jfoster@ricochet.net> Got Thetans?

    <http://www.xenu.net/>
    > WARNING: I cannot be held responsible for the above They're

    coming to
    > because my cats have apparently learned to type. take me away,

    ha ha!
    >
    >




  14. #14
    Jonathan Allen Guest

    Re: Why should I use VB when Microsoft won't?

    > I don't know about "in-house" development, but I can't think of too many
    > commercially distributed MS examples....except sometimes tools (downloaded
    > from the KB) that patched or un-broke some or other MS product...


    The fact that you can't think of any doesn't mean they don't exist. It isn't
    like MS indicates the development language on the packaging.

    --
    Jonathan Allen


    "John Butler" <jrbutler@btclick.com> wrote in message
    news:3b65e0e1@news.devx.com...
    >
    > "Phil Weber" <pweber@devx.com> wrote in message
    > news:3b659ad7$1@news.devx.com...
    > > > For all it's virtues why should I bother with VB Classic
    > > > (and probably VB.net) if MS isn't willing to use it for serious
    > > > in-house development?

    > >
    > > Jack: How do you know that MS hasn't used VB for "serious" in-house
    > > development?
    > > ---
    > > Phil Weber
    > >
    > >

    >
    > I don't know about "in-house" development, but I can't think of too many
    > commercially distributed MS examples....except sometimes tools (downloaded
    > from the KB) that patched or un-broke some or other MS product...
    >
    > Rgds
    > John Butler
    >
    >
    >




  15. #15
    David Owen Guest

    Re: Why should I use VB when Microsoft won't?

    Larry,

    I'm not sure what you were trying to get at. If the idea was that you're
    concerned about MS extending into another business area, then I would have
    to say that that's a good thing. If you've done accounting upgrade /
    migrations before, you know there's no way in the world that a pre-built
    package can handle all the data issues that come up. If MS is going to
    provide another area where I can take existing knowledge, and extend that
    into this area, then I'm all for it.


    "Larry Linson" <larry.linson@ntpcug.org> wrote in message
    news:3b65dc6e$1@news.devx.com...
    > Comment: Some pundits (anybody who wants a citation, go find it yourself),
    > in IT trade publications, stated their suspicion that Microsoft's
    > acquisition of Great Plains was to extend their market to replace the

    little
    > guys who'd been their "partners". That is, replace with packaged software
    > set up by Microsoft SEs, the packages provided to small businesses by ISVs
    > and VARs and MCSDs in the modest-sized clients. Then, they'd figure a way

    to
    > extend it to the smallest mom-and-pop shops and mop up the rest of the
    > marketplace.
    >
    >
    >




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