All this rhetoric is a little perplexing...

[Luhar]

I don't get it. I thought these newsgroups were set up to discuss
programming. I posted a question about four days ago and haven't received
any responses yet. Meanwhile, hundreds of posts under several '.NET/.NOT'
threads have appeared.

What are the .NOTers and .NETers hoping to accomplish with all this arguing,
name-calling, cat-fighting, and back-biting? Does anybody really think
they're going to convert one side over to the other? Do the .NOTers think
they're going to persuade Microsoft to see the error of their ways and get
cracking on VB 7? Do the .NETers think they're going to persuade the VB6
gurus that Fred is the way to go?

It seems like the most knowledgeable posters here are using all their time
and effort to 'discuss' this issue when they could be helping clueless noobs
like myself become better programmers, regardless of the language. Why don't
the .NOTers go back to their corner, the .NETers in theirs, and we can all
get back to what we're all on these boards for--writing code!

Tim Overbay
Looking around for the playground monitor

[Zane Thomas [.NET MVP]]

On Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:48:45 -0700, "Luhar" <luhar@liquidvb.com> wrote:

>I posted a question about four days ago and haven't received
>any responses yet.

If you want an answer to a technical question post it in
vb.dotnet.technical - as you've seen there's little in the way of
technical information here.


--
When freedom is outlawed
only outlaws will be free.

[Kunle Odutola]

"Luhar" <luhar@liquidvb.com> wrote in message news:3c588306$2@10.1.10.29...
> I don't get it. I thought these newsgroups were set up to discuss
> programming. I posted a question about four days ago

Where?. We...erm...discuss VB.NET and other things passionately [and
pointlessly for some] but we don't ignore other important posts - at least
Rob doesn't ;-)

If it's technical, it should be in vb.dotnet.technical in any case.....

Kunle

[Luhar]

Ahh... but I did post it in technical. Everybody's too busy over here
ranting about their favorite flavor of VB to look.

Tim Overbay

"Zane Thomas [.NET MVP]" <zane@mabry.com> wrote in message
news:3c708a4f.753371250@news.devx.com...
> On Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:48:45 -0700, "Luhar" <luhar@liquidvb.com> wrote:
>
> >I posted a question about four days ago and haven't received
> >any responses yet.
>
> If you want an answer to a technical question post it in
> vb.dotnet.technical - as you've seen there's little in the way of
> technical information here.
>
>
> --
> When freedom is outlawed
> only outlaws will be free.

[Phil Weber]

> Ahh... but I did post it in technical. Everybody's too busy
> over here ranting about their favorite flavor of VB to look.

Tim: I read every message in vb.dotnet.technical (as, I suspect, do Rob
Texeira, Patrick Steele, and others). I didn't reply to your GDI+ question
because I don't know the answer.

If you look at the other threads in the .technical group, you'll see that
most questions do receive answers; I don't think the traffic in this group
has a significant effect on the response rate in the .technical group.
Sometimes questions just don't get answered (I notice that your post to
microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.vb also hasn't received a reply ;-).

At any rate, I've found some interesting information on the subject of your
question. I'm off to post a reply in the .technical group now...
---
Phil Weber

[Zane Thomas [.NET MVP]]

On Wed, 30 Jan 2002 23:33:18 -0700, "Luhar" <luhar@slipnet.net> wrote:

>Ahh... but I did post it in technical. Everybody's too busy over here
>ranting about their favorite flavor of VB to look.

Hmmm, well I don't see anything over there from any time during the past
several days by you. Are you sure you posted? Maybe you should try
again.


--
When freedom is outlawed
only outlaws will be free.

[Mike Mitchell]

On Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:48:45 -0700, "Luhar" <luhar@liquidvb.com>
wrote:

>What are the .NOTers and .NETers hoping to accomplish with all this arguing,
>name-calling, cat-fighting, and back-biting?

I have no problem with the .NETers. I do have a problem that they want
to make me one of them. Against my will. By removing my programming
language. Choice doesn't come into it, does it?

> Does anybody really think
>they're going to convert one side over to the other? Do the .NOTers think
>they're going to persuade Microsoft to see the error of their ways and get
>cracking on VB 7?

Of course. It WILL happen. When three million classic VB users realise
what they're buying, Microsoft will have no other option, just like
Pepsi and Coke.

> Do the .NETers think they're going to persuade the VB6
>gurus that Fred is the way to go?

Who cares what the .NETers think? They are the ones who are destroying
peoples' livelihoods, not me. They have a case to answer; I don't.

>It seems like the most knowledgeable posters here are using all their time
>and effort to 'discuss' this issue when they could be helping clueless noobs
>like myself become better programmers, regardless of the language.

This group is entitled vb.dotnet.discussion and is mainly for general
discussion about VB.NET. I believe there are many other more
technically oriented groups, and I expect Phil Weber will respond here
with a list of them.

> Why don't
>the .NOTers go back to their corner, the .NETers in theirs, and we can all
>get back to what we're all on these boards for--writing code!

No, we don't write code in this group. We discuss.

MM

[Luhar]

Thanks, Phil. My rant wasn't targeted specifically at this group. I realize
that it's for discussion. That's why I posted it here.

It was a reaction to the growing frustration I'm experiencing trying to
learn this new API. Since I'm a development team of one with a tiny budget,
I have only three resources to which I can turn when I need help: The docs,
the web, and these newsgroups. The docs fall short all too often. The web
helps a bit, but when I can't find it using Google, I go to the newsgroups
which are usually a great help. But scrolling through all these arguments to
find some useful information just adds to the frustaration.

It's like going to a car dealership and buying a brand new corvette. The
salesman hands you the keys and you hop in. Excitement quickly turns to
puzzlement when you discover that the ignition switch isn't in its usual
place. You spend some time trying to find out where to put the key, but
fail. So you pop the glove box and grab the user's manual. The warm glow of
new ownership fades a little more when you turn to the section entitled
'Starting the Vehicle' and it reads 'Insert the key into the ignition switch
and turn clockwise.'

There's still hope. You climb out of the vehicle and try to ask a salesman,
but they're all gathered in a large noisy group arguing over which
corvette's better: the 1998 model or the 2002 model. While the conversation
is lively and generally intelligent, it's not revealing anything about how
to start your car. There's nothing else to do but sit on the curb and wait
for the argument to end... or a bus.

Tim Overbay

"Phil Weber" <pweberonline@fawcette.com> wrote in message
news:3c58f75f@10.1.10.29...
> > Ahh... but I did post it in technical. Everybody's too busy
> > over here ranting about their favorite flavor of VB to look.
>
> Tim: I read every message in vb.dotnet.technical (as, I suspect, do Rob
> Texeira, Patrick Steele, and others). I didn't reply to your GDI+ question
> because I don't know the answer.
>
> If you look at the other threads in the .technical group, you'll see that
> most questions do receive answers; I don't think the traffic in this group
> has a significant effect on the response rate in the .technical group.
> Sometimes questions just don't get answered (I notice that your post to
> microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.vb also hasn't received a reply ;-).
>
> At any rate, I've found some interesting information on the subject of
your
> question. I'm off to post a reply in the .technical group now...
> ---
> Phil Weber

[Daniel Pratt]

Hi Luhar/Tim?,

Maybe your development budget is so tiny because you bought the brand
new Corvette ;-)

Regards,
Dan

"Luhar" <luhar@liquidvb.com> wrote in message news:3c595faa$1@10.1.10.29...
[...]
....Since I'm a development team of one with a tiny budget...
[...]
....It's like going to a car dealership and buying a brand new corvette...
[...]

[Mike Mitchell]

On Thu, 31 Jan 2002 08:30:15 -0700, "Luhar" <luhar@liquidvb.com>
wrote:

>It's like going to a car dealership and buying a brand new corvette.

At least you had a choice of which car from dozens to buy. Where VB is
concerned it will soon be VB.NET or nothing.

MM

[Luhar]

How many choices were available before VB.NET? Let's see... VB-DOS, VB1, VB3,
VB4, VB5, and VB6. (I don't recall using VB2)

How many choices are available now? VB-DOS, VB1, VB3, VB4, VB5, VB6, and
VB.NET. Seems to me that there are more choices. Am I missing something here?

Tim Overbay

kylix_is@yahoo.co.uk (Mike Mitchell) wrote:
>On Thu, 31 Jan 2002 08:30:15 -0700, "Luhar" <luhar@liquidvb.com>
>wrote:
>
>>It's like going to a car dealership and buying a brand new corvette.
>
>At least you had a choice of which car from dozens to buy. Where VB is
>concerned it will soon be VB.NET or nothing.
>
>MM

[Patrick Troughton]

There is more choice than ever with over 20 languages targetting the .NET
platform....

/Pat

kylix_is@yahoo.co.uk (Mike Mitchell) wrote:
>On Thu, 31 Jan 2002 08:30:15 -0700, "Luhar" <luhar@liquidvb.com>
>wrote:
>
>>It's like going to a car dealership and buying a brand new corvette.
>
>At least you had a choice of which car from dozens to buy. Where VB is
>concerned it will soon be VB.NET or nothing.
>
>MM

[Mike Mitchell]

On 31 Jan 2002 09:38:19 -0800, "Luhar" <luhar@slipnet.net> wrote:

>How many choices are available now? VB-DOS, VB1, VB3, VB4, VB5, VB6, and
>VB.NET. Seems to me that there are more choices. Am I missing something here?

Yes, you are:

Discontinued 15/02/02 361-00667 Microsoft® Visual Basic® Enterprise
6.0 Win32 English North America CD Refresh

Discontinued 15/02/02 361-00669 Microsoft® Visual Basic® Enterprise
6.0 Win32 English Version Upgrade North America CD Refresh

Discontinued 15/02/02 203-00770 Microsoft® Visual Basic® Professional
6.0 Win32 English Competitive/Version Upgrade North America CD Refresh

Discontinued 15/02/02 203-00768 Microsoft® Visual Basic® Professional
6.0 Win32 English North America CD Refresh

The product's dead, mate! Haven't you heard?

MM

[Mike Mitchell]

On 31 Jan 2002 10:30:50 -0800, "Patrick Troughton"
<Patrick@Troughton.com> wrote:

>There is more choice than ever with over 20 languages targetting the .NET
>platform....

Curious as it may seem to you, Pat, I would like to choose a
B.A.S.I.C. which is 100% compatible with VB6 from those 20 you
mentioned. Now, does any of them fulfil that role?

MM

[Zane Thomas [.NET MVP]]

On Thu, 31 Jan 2002 20:05:35 GMT, kylix_is@yahoo.co.uk (Mike Mitchell)
wrote:

>Pat, I would like to choose a
>B.A.S.I.C. which is 100% compatible with VB6 from those 20 you
>mentioned.

Then use VB6 ... of course you will become obsolete, but that's going to
happen anyway given your resistance to learning new technologies.


--
When freedom is outlawed
only outlaws will be free.