Re: WebForms vs WinForms(Rob)


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Thread: Re: WebForms vs WinForms(Rob)

  1. #1
    MarkN Guest

    Re: WebForms vs WinForms(Rob)


    Hey Rob,
    Could you look at my C# questions. Either no one knows or no one cares.
    They may also apply to VB.Net.

    http://news.devx.com/cgi-bin/dnewswe...tem=2955&utag=

    http://news.devx.com/cgi-bin/dnewswe...tem=2954&utag=

    "Rob Teixeira" <RobTeixeira@@msn.com> wrote:
    >
    >"MarkN" <m@n.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>Rob,
    >> Not to beat the dead horse but I was looking back through messages trying
    >>to find if anyone is using Web Forms.

    >
    >I am, although i'm not using a lot of the "auto" features, or the layout
    >designer in VS.
    >
    >>Anyway, I agree with you about getting apps out of the browser. We've

    been
    >>able to do this for quite a while with other technologies. How does .Net's
    >>#3 compare with JNLP?
    >>While what comes free is pretty basic there is wonderful
    >>commercial tool that builds on top of it. It seems to go to a lower level
    >>than .Net. (http://www.sitraka.com/software/deploydirector/)

    >
    >That link is dead, but i did manage to find the deploydirector product on
    >their site. JNLP is a whole set of API for doing this type of deployment.
    >With .NET, the fundamentals are already built into the Runtime / Assembly
    >Loader. The caching is already built in as well. So at a very basic level,
    >all you do is load the assembly off a URL. From there, you can get fancy
    >and supply security elements (credentials checks, evidence, etc.) as well
    >as version control.
    >
    >>The biggest problem I run into is convincing those I am developing for

    that
    >>the browser based applications are passť and they are not good for implementing
    >>complicated interfaces.

    >
    >Well, I wouldn't say they are really passe, though I will agree that they
    >undoubtedly suck for implementing complicated interfaces (and yes, I just
    >pissed off all the CSS/DHTML guru's, but sorry, that just don't cut it in
    >my book). Again, the biggest problem is that you have to wrap your application
    >around the protocol and display container limitations (the biggest problem
    >being the forced statelessness), when you should be wrapping the protocol
    >and other tools to fit the application instead. The other problem is that
    >you're constantly re-inventing the User APIs (or SWING if you prefer

    trying
    >to "fake" Windows on Windows.
    >Web apps will still have their place as we go forward, but I think people
    >are going to seriously re-evaluate exactly "why" they should use a web app
    >or a "rich" client.
    >
    >>So who has been successful in getting their apps
    >>out of the browser?

    >
    >Unfortunately, I've been sucked into a project that is primarily an extension
    >off a large corporate website. So for the time being, I'm back in the web
    >world. However, the next project I have lined up is a serious candidate

    for
    >this new model.
    >
    >-Rob



  2. #2
    Rob Teixeira Guest

    Re: WebForms vs WinForms(Rob)


    "MarkN" <m@n.com> wrote:
    >
    >Hey Rob,
    > Could you look at my C# questions. Either no one knows or no one cares.
    > They may also apply to VB.Net.
    >
    >http://news.devx.com/cgi-bin/dnewswe...tem=2955&utag=


    There's no way for reflection to work unless you know the containing namespace.
    Intellisense has to decifer the fully qualified name in order to list "correct"
    and unambiguous types. Also, it would have no starting point to start looking
    from unless you provided a namespace - it'd have to iterate through all known
    namespaces. That would be bad. If you don't want to always type the qualifying
    namespace, "using" is your best bet.

    >http://news.devx.com/cgi-bin/dnewswe...tem=2954&utag=


    I'm not sure about the context of this question. Where exactly do you want
    to see this information? The information (Exceptions thrown by a class) is
    available from the XML doc, so it can be retrieved - it just depends where
    you want it.

    -Rob

  3. #3
    MarkN Guest

    Re: WebForms vs WinForms(Rob)


    "Rob Teixeira" <RobTeixeira@@msn.com> wrote:
    >
    >"MarkN" <m@n.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>Hey Rob,
    >> Could you look at my C# questions. Either no one knows or no one cares.
    >> They may also apply to VB.Net.
    >>
    >>http://news.devx.com/cgi-bin/dnewswe...tem=2955&utag=

    >
    >There's no way for reflection to work unless you know the containing namespace.
    >Intellisense has to decifer the fully qualified name in order to list "correct"
    >and unambiguous types. Also, it would have no starting point to start looking
    >from unless you provided a namespace - it'd have to iterate through all

    known
    >namespaces. That would be bad. If you don't want to always type the qualifying
    >namespace, "using" is your best bet.


    Ok. I guess I will have to live with it (or not). The problem with this
    is that I now have to know what namespace it is in even it I put the 'using'
    in (still got to know before I put using). This works in another IDE/Language
    and is really fast and I have many objects and 'namespaces' loaded up. It
    should be just as fast, if not faster, in VS.Net. I can type the first few
    letters and it brings up a list. Then I select the Class I want and it puts
    in the 'namespace' and the class name. If I want to have a 'using' for the
    class or namespace I right click on the class and pick the option from the
    popup list.

    >
    >>http://news.devx.com/cgi-bin/dnewswe...tem=2954&utag=

    >
    >I'm not sure about the context of this question. Where exactly do you want
    >to see this information? The information (Exceptions thrown by a class)

    is
    >available from the XML doc, so it can be retrieved - it just depends where
    >you want it.


    The context is that in another language (sorry to keep going back there)
    I can't compile if I don't handle throwable exceptions. The IDE actually
    tells me I am not catching thrown exceptions and which ones.

    So to find out what exceptions I need to catch I have to look at the docs
    for every method? I hated this feature in VB.

    Thanks for your help Rob.

    Mark

    >
    >-Rob



  4. #4
    Rob Teixeira Guest

    Re: WebForms vs WinForms(Rob)


    "MarkN" <m@n.com> wrote:
    >
    >The context is that in another language (sorry to keep going back there)
    >I can't compile if I don't handle throwable exceptions. The IDE actually
    >tells me I am not catching thrown exceptions and which ones.
    >
    >So to find out what exceptions I need to catch I have to look at the docs
    >for every method? I hated this feature in VB.


    Actually, what i meant is that throwable exceptions are part of XML Doc (kinda
    like Javadoc). Every component written in C# can have an XML Doc file that
    describes all the methods/properties/etc.
    This is the file that gives you the tooltips in the IDE as you type the methods.
    So, if you understand the format of the XML Doc file, it's easy to build
    an add-in that will do this for you (you can probably even create a VS Macro
    instead of an add-in to be honest).

    >Thanks for your help Rob.


    you're welcome

    -Rob

  5. #5
    MarkN Guest

    Re: WebForms vs WinForms(Rob)


    "Rob Teixeira" <RobTeixeira@@msn.com> wrote:
    >
    >"MarkN" <m@n.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>The context is that in another language (sorry to keep going back there)
    >>I can't compile if I don't handle throwable exceptions. The IDE actually
    >>tells me I am not catching thrown exceptions and which ones.
    >>
    >>So to find out what exceptions I need to catch I have to look at the docs
    >>for every method? I hated this feature in VB.

    >
    >Actually, what i meant is that throwable exceptions are part of XML Doc

    (kinda
    >like Javadoc). Every component written in C# can have an XML Doc file that
    >describes all the methods/properties/etc.
    >This is the file that gives you the tooltips in the IDE as you type the

    methods.

    Thats kinda cool.

    >So, if you understand the format of the XML Doc file, it's easy to build
    >an add-in that will do this for you (you can probably even create a VS Macro
    >instead of an add-in to be honest).


    Another macro. So how much is this one gonna cost me? I don't have
    time to do this. (Two Languages (if you don't count scripting), two platforms,
    and multiple contracts) At least I can whip out Web Services!


    Again, thanks.

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