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Thread: Math People - Help!

  1. #16
    Matt Markus Guest

    Re: Math People - Help!

    Ian --


    "Ian Post" <SpamFree@TheWay.ToBe> wrote in message
    news:3a436ace$1@news.devx.com...
    > Matt:
    > If you are doing any coding of logic and problem solving (90% of
    > programming), yes. If all you are doing is UI design and database
    > read-write, then you can get by without it, but I'd never hire someone

    that
    > limited.


    Hey, define logic for me, just so I can find out if were on the same page.


    > You don't know very many good coders, IMHO, if the best one you know
    > couldn't solve the chicken problem.



    ***? You don't even know who I'm talking about, nor have you ever seen any
    of their code!!! How can you sit there and make such an ignorant,
    presumptious statement!?!

    > OK, here's one for you: Write an application to solve the chicken problem.
    > How would you do that if you do not know how yourself?


    Yeah, that's a realistic VB application!

    Write an app to provide cost estimating on construction projects,
    > giving the user options based on current prices of product and the most
    > cost-effective manner of completing the project. How could you do that
    > without these types of basic math skills?


    You do *not* need to know algebra to do that, basic math skills yes, but not
    algebra!





  2. #17
    Lenny Toulson Guest

    Re: Math People - Help!

    1. Have you graduated high school? If so, in what state/country? Do they
    grant diplomas for students without any algebra classes?

    2. The question wasn't to test your math skills so much as your
    problem-solving skills. Problems like the one they gave you come up *all
    the time* in real-world programming. If you plan to stay in this field, you
    need to be able to answer that kind of question relatively quickly.

    --
    Lenny
    __________


    "Matt Markus" <matt_markus@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:3a4260d6@news.devx.com...

    Can you explain, in plain words, what that is doing? I really haven't had
    any algebra classes, and, as a result, don't understand that too well.






  3. #18
    Matt Markus Guest

    Re: Math People - Help!

    Hi Lenny --

    "Lenny Toulson" <ltoulson@nospam.net> wrote in message
    news:3a43724f$1@news.devx.com...
    > 1. Have you graduated high school? If so, in what state/country? Do they
    > grant diplomas for students without any algebra classes?
    >
    > 2. The question wasn't to test your math skills so much as your


    OF COURSE IT WAS!!!!! I certainly wasn't to test my VB skills!!!!!!

    With all due respect, sir, you sound like a complete idiot by saying that.
    I'm telling you, right now, as I sit here, that I personally know people
    that are very successful programmers, who make a lot of money, have proven
    themeselves time and time again and *CANNOT* solve that algebra
    prolbem!!!!!!!! DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS?????? IT IS POSSIBLE! Why is it
    possible? BECAUSE I HAVE PROOF!!!!!

    God, you sound like completely narrow-minded fool by making such statements.
    <****>



  4. #19
    Alex Guest

    Re: Math People - Help!


    Hey, people

    Matt already has been heart with this algebra question and his original post
    was about how to solve the problem.

    But discussion turned out in the direction whether to study or not.

    If somebody knows good algebra web site (with good explanations), please
    post it's address


    Alex


    "Lenny Toulson" <ltoulson@nospam.net> wrote:
    >1. Have you graduated high school? If so, in what state/country? Do they
    >grant diplomas for students without any algebra classes?
    >
    >2. The question wasn't to test your math skills so much as your
    >problem-solving skills. Problems like the one they gave you come up *all
    >the time* in real-world programming. If you plan to stay in this field,

    you
    >need to be able to answer that kind of question relatively quickly.
    >
    >--
    >Lenny
    >__________
    >
    >
    >"Matt Markus" <matt_markus@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    >news:3a4260d6@news.devx.com...
    >
    >Can you explain, in plain words, what that is doing? I really haven't had
    >any algebra classes, and, as a result, don't understand that too well.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >



  5. #20
    Lenny Toulson Guest

    Re: Math People - Help!

    Really? I ask again: Are you still in school?

    --
    Lenny
    __________


    "Matt Markus" <matt_markus@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:3a4379c5$1@news.devx.com...

    OF COURSE IT WAS!!!!! I certainly wasn't to test my VB skills!!!!!!

    With all due respect, sir, you sound like a complete idiot by saying that.
    I'm telling you, right now, as I sit here, that I personally know people
    that are very successful programmers, who make a lot of money, have proven
    themeselves time and time again and *CANNOT* solve that algebra
    prolbem!!!!!!!! DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS?????? IT IS POSSIBLE! Why is it
    possible? BECAUSE I HAVE PROOF!!!!!

    God, you sound like completely narrow-minded fool by making such statements.
    <****>





  6. #21
    Lenny Toulson Guest

    Re: Math People - Help!

    If Matt would wake up he'd realize we're not harping on his algebra skills
    but his apparent lack of problem-solving skills. VB is *not* simply
    dragging a couple data controls on a form and pointing them to a database.
    Real-world programming - even in VB - requires problem solving skills such
    as those required to answer the question posed to him in the interview.
    *He* is the one blasting to the world that math is completely irrelevant to
    "good programmers." That question would be valid in any number of
    professions.

    If he's that sensitive about his math skills, perhaps he can visit
    www.google.com to find a good algebra web site.

    --
    Lenny
    __________


    "Alex" <AlexanderBirman@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:3a437bc8$1@news.devx.com...

    Matt already has been heart with this algebra question and his original post
    was about how to solve the problem.

    But discussion turned out in the direction whether to study or not.



  7. #22
    Brian Patrick Guest

    Re: Math People - Help!


    Ian -

    Consider this for a moment...

    I've been developing software for over 5 years and have MCSD certification.
    I didn't go to college, so the only algebra I've been *taught* was around
    10 years ago in high school. I've learned all my programming skills through
    on the job experience, books, magazines, newsgroups, vb and asp related web
    sites, and pushing myself by coding on my personal time and learning new
    things.

    I am a very accomplished programmer, and have received recognition from every
    employer I've worked for. I require no supervision and can complete all
    aspects of the software development life cycle on my own (Design, Data Modeling,
    Coding, Testing, Implementation) I am confident that I can develop a solution
    for any business need, and have proven that to myself and my employers time
    and again.

    My current employer pays me $90,000/year

    I've *never* (in over 5 years) had any need to use an algebraic equation,
    such as the one discussed here. I use adding, subtracting, multiplying,
    dividing, exponents, and percentages on a regular basis.

    I can tell you (as well as many others) that if I was not offered a VB/ASP
    software development job because I have forgotten basic algebra, the potential
    employer would have made big mistake.

    How do you explain my success ?



    "Ian Post" <SpamFree@TheWay.ToBe> wrote:
    >Matt:
    >
    >> Interesting notions for a presumably "logical" group of programmers...
    >>
    >> So let me get this straight, for the record: "one *needs* to be know

    >algebra
    >> in order to be a productive VB Programmer"?

    >
    >If you are doing any coding of logic and problem solving (90% of
    >programming), yes. If all you are doing is UI design and database
    >read-write, then you can get by without it, but I'd never hire someone that
    >limited.
    >
    >> That's insane. I have living
    >> examples here, all around me, of people who are proficient programmers

    but
    >> could *not* solve that problem; either because they never had algebra

    in
    >the
    >> first place, or have just forgotten it. In fact, one of the best coders

    I
    >> know couldn't solve that problem. So explain that paradox, oh supreme
    >> logical ones.

    >
    >You don't know very many good coders, IMHO, if the best one you know
    >couldn't solve the chicken problem. From my experience, the best coders

    I
    >know actually enjoy math and problem solving to the point where Dr. Eco's
    >problems are too easy for them.
    >
    >> I actually kind of regret bringing this up, now that some of you are going
    >> to force potential employees to abandon their focus on programming to

    take
    >> some crash course in Algebra at the local community college, not because
    >> they need to be a better programmer, but merely to get through the
    >> interview!?! Why don't you ask them to write a little application, or

    >even
    >> just a procedure instead? Have them code something for God's sake!

    >
    >OK, here's one for you: Write an application to solve the chicken problem.
    >How would you do that if you do not know how yourself? Or to be more
    >general: Write an app to provide cost estimating on construction projects,
    >giving the user options based on current prices of product and the most
    >cost-effective manner of completing the project. How could you do that
    >without these types of basic math skills?
    >
    >As an aside, we've gone a little off the topic of VB specific issues here.
    >This conversation might be more appropriately held in the off ramp
    >(subscribe to off.ramp on news.devx.com). Up to you, of course.
    >
    >Ian
    >
    >



  8. #23
    Arthur Wood Guest

    Re: Math People - Help!


    Matt,

    here is simple VB proceure which would solve teh Motehr Daughter problem,
    with necessarily resoting to Algebra:

    Dim Mother as Integer
    Dim Daughter as Integer

    for Daughter = 1 to 100
    Mother = 4 * Daughter
    if (Mother + 20) = 2 * (Daughter + 20) then
    Debug.Print Daughter, Mother
    Exit For
    end if
    next Daughter

    Sure, this would get the right answer, and to some it would appear to be
    "elegant" code. But IT WQOULD BE EXTRODINARILY INEFFICIENT code. By knowing
    the necessary lagebra, more often than not, you will be capable of wiriting
    not only elegant code, but efficient code as well. Without the Algebra (obviously
    not required) your code may be very elegant, but I doubt if will ever be
    very efficient.

    Just my humble opinion.

    Arthur Wood


    "Matt Markus" <matt_markus@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >"Eric D. Burdo" <vbtips@redleif.com> wrote in message
    >news:3a435958$1@news.devx.com...
    >> Hehe... I remember that one. It was in an old Role playing book I had.

    >You had to answer
    >> the question before you could get this guy to help you out...
    >>
    >> Kinda fun...
    >>
    >> --
    >>
    >> Eric D. Burdo, Red-Leif International
    >> VB Programmer and Consultant
    >> <http://www.redleif.com/vb>
    >>
    >> *** Please reply to the newsgroup so all can benefit. ***
    >>
    >>
    >> "Ian Post" <SpamFree@TheWay.ToBe> wrote in message

    >news:3a428d8f@news.devx.com...
    >> > <matt>
    >> > > I know, and I appreciate your explanation. But it *was* asked in an
    >> > > interview for a VB Programmer position. Do you, or anyone here, think
    >> > that's
    >> > > a relevent, or even appropriate question for such an interview?
    >> > </matt>
    >> >
    >> > Extremely relevant. Programming requires problem solving, conversion

    of
    >a
    >> > real-world situation into an algorythm. ****, that's not what

    >programming
    >> > requires, that's what it is.
    >> >
    >> > Over on the Off Ramp, another similar question from an interview was

    >posted
    >> > (By Nancy Folsom, I think)... it gets you on math and logic:
    >> >
    >> > Q: Statistically, if 1 1/2 chickens lay 1 1/2 eggs in 1 1/2 days, how

    >many
    >> > days does it take one chicken to lay a dozen eggs?
    >> >
    >> > If I ever interview programmers again (currently consulting freelance),

    >I
    >> > will definately use this one.
    >> >
    >> > Ian
    >> >
    >> >

    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    >Interesting notions for a presumably "logical" group of programmers...
    >
    >So let me get this straight, for the record: "one *needs* to be know algebra
    >in order to be a productive VB Programmer"? That's insane. I have living
    >examples here, all around me, of people who are proficient programmers but
    >could *not* solve that problem; either because they never had algebra in

    the
    >first place, or have just forgotten it. In fact, one of the best coders

    I
    >know couldn't solve that problem. So explain that paradox, oh supreme
    >logical ones.
    >
    >I actually kind of regret bringing this up, now that some of you are going
    >to force potential employees to abandon their focus on programming to take
    >some crash course in Algebra at the local community college, not because
    >they need to be a better programmer, but merely to get through the
    >interview!?! Why don't you ask them to write a little application, or even
    >just a procedure instead? Have them code something for God's sake!
    >
    >Yeah, next time I interview a developer I'm going to bust out the legos

    and
    >tell them to build me a space station. Hey, that's requires problem solving!
    >
    >
    >



  9. #24
    Duane Snelling Guest

    Re: Math People - Help!


    Matt,
    Programming is based on Math, general and advanced. The nice thing about
    VB is most of the advanced math is done for you by Microsoft. You are right
    though, a coder can write excellent programs without the need for advance
    math in VB. Normally because the math equations are done by the developer
    who designed the software and not the coder. I don't think anyone here is
    putting you down, just stressing a point. Yes you can write and develop
    excellent programs without any math. But there will come a time in your
    programming career that will require you to know general and advance math
    skills for a project. If a company asked you a interview question like the
    one you were asked, is only because they want to judge your ablity to solve
    a problem on your own and not just the math itself. It's not a bad thing
    that you had trouble with the math part of that question, but in turn its
    not a good thing either. The one thing that I have learned over the years,
    is that programming is not just about writing good software applications,
    its about advancing yourself to your fullest ablity. You should take your
    ledge of having some problems with algebra and take time to learn. Every
    new project brings a new problem which needs to be solved. If you want to
    be an amazing programmer you need to have the want to learn as must as you
    can. Some projects require it. To give you an example. I am going to be
    working on a data ware house type project. I need to goto the libery to
    find out some information on the most common ways of running Business. Now
    sure if I have degree in business it would be easier, but it gives me the
    opertunity to learn something more and advance my knowledge and ablity.

    Happy Holidays
    Duane...

    "Matt Markus" <matt_markus@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >Ian --
    >
    >
    >"Ian Post" <SpamFree@TheWay.ToBe> wrote in message
    >news:3a436ace$1@news.devx.com...
    >> Matt:
    >> If you are doing any coding of logic and problem solving (90% of
    >> programming), yes. If all you are doing is UI design and database
    >> read-write, then you can get by without it, but I'd never hire someone

    >that
    >> limited.

    >
    >Hey, define logic for me, just so I can find out if were on the same page.
    >
    >
    >> You don't know very many good coders, IMHO, if the best one you know
    >> couldn't solve the chicken problem.

    >
    >
    >***? You don't even know who I'm talking about, nor have you ever seen

    any
    >of their code!!! How can you sit there and make such an ignorant,
    >presumptious statement!?!
    >
    >> OK, here's one for you: Write an application to solve the chicken problem.
    >> How would you do that if you do not know how yourself?

    >
    >Yeah, that's a realistic VB application!
    >
    >Write an app to provide cost estimating on construction projects,
    >> giving the user options based on current prices of product and the most
    >> cost-effective manner of completing the project. How could you do that
    >> without these types of basic math skills?

    >
    >You do *not* need to know algebra to do that, basic math skills yes, but

    not
    >algebra!
    >
    >
    >
    >



  10. #25
    Brian Patrick Guest

    Re: Math People - Help!


    Lenny I'm giving you the same response I gave to Ian.

    Consider this for a moment...

    I've been developing software for over 5 years and have MCSD certification.
    I didn't go to college, so the only algebra I've been *taught* was around
    10 years ago in high school. I've learned all my programming skills through
    on the job experience, books, magazines, newsgroups, vb and asp related web
    sites, and pushing myself by coding on my personal time and learning new
    things.

    I am a very accomplished programmer, and have received recognition from every
    employer I've worked for. I require no supervision and can complete all
    aspects of the software development life cycle on my own (Design, Data Modeling,
    Coding, Testing, Implementation) I am confident that I can develop a solution
    for any business need, and have proven that to myself and my employers time
    and again.

    My current employer pays me $90,000/year

    I've *never* (in over 5 years) had any need to use an algebraic equation,
    such as the one discussed here. I use adding, subtracting, multiplying,
    dividing, exponents, and percentages on a regular basis.

    I can tell you (as well as many others) that if I was not offered a VB/ASP
    software development job because I have forgotten basic algebra, the potential
    employer would have made big mistake.

    How do you explain my success ?

    btw - I totally agree with you regarding the problem solving. That is one
    of my greatest qualities as a programmer. IMO, programming *is* problem
    solving, I solve problems everday. I still can't write that algebra equation,
    though...





    "Lenny Toulson" <ltoulson@nospam.net> wrote:
    >If Matt would wake up he'd realize we're not harping on his algebra skills
    >but his apparent lack of problem-solving skills. VB is *not* simply
    >dragging a couple data controls on a form and pointing them to a database.
    >Real-world programming - even in VB - requires problem solving skills such
    >as those required to answer the question posed to him in the interview.
    >*He* is the one blasting to the world that math is completely irrelevant

    to
    >"good programmers." That question would be valid in any number of
    >professions.
    >
    >If he's that sensitive about his math skills, perhaps he can visit
    >www.google.com to find a good algebra web site.
    >
    >--
    >Lenny
    >__________
    >
    >
    >"Alex" <AlexanderBirman@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >news:3a437bc8$1@news.devx.com...
    >
    >Matt already has been heart with this algebra question and his original

    post
    >was about how to solve the problem.
    >
    >But discussion turned out in the direction whether to study or not.
    >
    >



  11. #26
    Brian Patrick Guest

    Re: Math People - Help!


    I agree with you.

    However, someone in a previous post said that they would not hire someone
    based on that question alone. That, to me, is absurd.

    I'm sure you'd have been furious if you weren't able to work on your project
    because you didn't have a business degree.


    "Duane Snelling" <dsnelling@msc.ca> wrote:
    >
    >Matt,
    >Programming is based on Math, general and advanced. The nice thing about
    >VB is most of the advanced math is done for you by Microsoft. You are right
    >though, a coder can write excellent programs without the need for advance
    >math in VB. Normally because the math equations are done by the developer
    >who designed the software and not the coder. I don't think anyone here

    is
    >putting you down, just stressing a point. Yes you can write and develop
    >excellent programs without any math. But there will come a time in your
    >programming career that will require you to know general and advance math
    >skills for a project. If a company asked you a interview question like

    the
    >one you were asked, is only because they want to judge your ablity to solve
    >a problem on your own and not just the math itself. It's not a bad thing
    >that you had trouble with the math part of that question, but in turn its
    >not a good thing either. The one thing that I have learned over the years,
    >is that programming is not just about writing good software applications,
    >its about advancing yourself to your fullest ablity. You should take your
    >ledge of having some problems with algebra and take time to learn. Every
    >new project brings a new problem which needs to be solved. If you want

    to
    >be an amazing programmer you need to have the want to learn as must as you
    >can. Some projects require it. To give you an example. I am going to be
    >working on a data ware house type project. I need to goto the libery to
    >find out some information on the most common ways of running Business.

    Now
    >sure if I have degree in business it would be easier, but it gives me the
    >opertunity to learn something more and advance my knowledge and ablity.
    >
    >Happy Holidays
    >Duane...
    >
    >"Matt Markus" <matt_markus@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >>Ian --
    >>
    >>
    >>"Ian Post" <SpamFree@TheWay.ToBe> wrote in message
    >>news:3a436ace$1@news.devx.com...
    >>> Matt:
    >>> If you are doing any coding of logic and problem solving (90% of
    >>> programming), yes. If all you are doing is UI design and database
    >>> read-write, then you can get by without it, but I'd never hire someone

    >>that
    >>> limited.

    >>
    >>Hey, define logic for me, just so I can find out if were on the same page.
    >>
    >>
    >>> You don't know very many good coders, IMHO, if the best one you know
    >>> couldn't solve the chicken problem.

    >>
    >>
    >>***? You don't even know who I'm talking about, nor have you ever seen

    >any
    >>of their code!!! How can you sit there and make such an ignorant,
    >>presumptious statement!?!
    >>
    >>> OK, here's one for you: Write an application to solve the chicken problem.
    >>> How would you do that if you do not know how yourself?

    >>
    >>Yeah, that's a realistic VB application!
    >>
    >>Write an app to provide cost estimating on construction projects,
    >>> giving the user options based on current prices of product and the most
    >>> cost-effective manner of completing the project. How could you do that
    >>> without these types of basic math skills?

    >>
    >>You do *not* need to know algebra to do that, basic math skills yes, but

    >not
    >>algebra!
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >



  12. #27
    Lenny Toulson Guest

    Re: Math People - Help!

    I have no college degree and am a self-taught programmer, too. Your success
    is probably based on the same thing(s) mine is: tenacity, perseverance, good
    client interaction skills, and an ability to solve problems.

    The question asked him was not algebra. Just because it can be expressed in
    algebraic terms does not mean it has to be. You could use a brute force
    method of checking all integer values to find the right answer, but it's not
    as elegant or efficient as the algebraic method.

    I couldn't care less that Matt doesn't have any algebra experience. (I will
    admit a high degree of surprise for any high school granting a diploma
    without the student having *some* algebra, though.) But I think he's way
    off base in claiming the question was irrelevant to the position.

    --
    Lenny
    __________


    "Brian Patrick" <bpatrick100@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:3a438167$1@news.devx.com...

    I didn't go to college, so the only algebra I've been *taught* was around
    10 years ago in high school. I've learned all my programming skills through
    on the job experience, books, magazines, newsgroups, vb and asp related web
    sites, and pushing myself by coding on my personal time and learning new
    things.

    How do you explain my success ?

    btw - I totally agree with you regarding the problem solving. That is one
    of my greatest qualities as a programmer. IMO, programming *is* problem
    solving, I solve problems everday. I still can't write that algebra
    equation,
    though...



  13. #28
    Colin McGuigan Guest

    Re: Math People - Help!

    Brian Patrick <bpatrick100@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:3a437dbf$1@news.devx.com...
    <snip>
    > I've *never* (in over 5 years) had any need to use an algebraic equation,
    > such as the one discussed here. I use adding, subtracting, multiplying,
    > dividing, exponents, and percentages on a regular basis.


    What kind of software do you design? There's a difference between someone
    who designs financial software, and someone who does a shopping website.

    (Personally, I've almost always done financial software, and the amount of
    math that's required is staggering. I've yet to use calculus, but other
    than that...)

    > I can tell you (as well as many others) that if I was not offered a VB/ASP
    > software development job because I have forgotten basic algebra, the

    potential
    > employer would have made big mistake.


    Basic algebra is taught in the 8th grade. (Might be 9th, now). Would you
    similarly say, "...that if I was not offered a VB/ASP software development
    job because I have forgotten basic English and grammer..."?

    > How do you explain my success ?


    Well, let's take problems in the mother/daughter vein.

    Can you answer the following questions:

    * The one original posted about the mother/daughter?

    * If an account will accrue 8% interest per year, what amount of money will
    I need to invest to have $200,000 in 10 years?

    * If a given stock had a median value of $10 in January, $15 in February,
    $26 in March, $24 in April, $18 in May, and $14 in June, what was it's
    median value for the half?

    * I have a choice of investing $!0,000: I can invest the $10,000 in a
    portfolio that is guaranteed to return 4%, or I can invest it in a portfolio
    that has an 80% chance of returning 7%, a 10% chance of returning nothing,
    and a 10% chance of losing 4%. Statistically, which is the better option?

    If you can, congratulations: you remember basic algebra. If you can't, I'd
    have to say that the chances you could work at my present company would be
    slim.

    --
    Colin McGuigan




  14. #29
    Rick Rothstein Guest

    Re: Math People - Help!

    I almost hesitate to wade in here as you are becoming somewhat defensive
    over this issue. However ... is a knowledge of algebra *necessary* in order
    to write programs which perform well ... no, it is not required. Is it
    desirable though ... yes, *highly*. Why? Let's look at it from a employer's
    standpoint.

    An employer hires you to write code for projects which will come up in the
    future. Some of these will be non-mathematically based and a lack of skill
    in algebra won't matter. Others, however, will need the same innate
    understanding of mathematical concepts that algebra requires. As the
    employer, how will you be able to help me? Sure, eventually, you might be
    able to "work around" this deficiency in algebra and produce a code solution
    for this second type of project, but at what cost? Time! And to an employer,
    time is money. Someone familiar with handling these concepts, on the other
    hand, will probably be able to zero in on a solution in a relatively short
    period of time. That person would be worth more to me as an employee than
    someone who doesn't possess this particular skill-set. Since I don't want to
    find out later, after I've hired you, that you will not be able to produce
    efficiently for me in certain areas that I anticipate getting into, I'll try
    to weed you out during an initial interview. It's for this reason that I
    think the algebra question was asked.

    Most people in school look at a class they are taking as something that has
    to be completed. However, I've found that each class I took prepared me in
    some way for a next class I took or, more importantly, for a life-skill that
    proved handy to possess. Each subject I took back when I was in school added
    to a foundation which the next subject assumed I had and progressed based on
    that assumption. When I had completed my formal education (one *never*
    actually stops learning), I found that the sum of all I had learned in
    school provided the foundation upon which my life was to be based. I was
    able to participate in conversations, offer useful ideas in meetings, etc.
    all based on the knowledge I had acquired in school. And one never knows in
    advance how a particular subject will help him/her later on in school or
    life; so the best strategy to follow is to do all that you can to master
    each subject taken, in anticipation that it will prove useful down the line.

    When I was in high school (1960 to 1963), I took a course in typing. At that
    time, typing was something future secretaries took. And, yes, my friends
    made fun of me. However, I expected to go to college and thought typing
    would be useful for writing reports -- which it did. (Remember, this was a
    time *before* word processors where the original was typed directly onto
    paper.) As useful as knowing how to type was in college, it turned out to be
    *far* more useful to me when I got started in computers (back in the early
    1980's). I was rusty, but I did know how to type and my speed came back to
    me quickly. And that gave me a leg up on others coming into the computer
    field with me. I never imagined that I would ever use my typing after
    college -- who would have thought!

    The point of the above ... do whatever you can to master each subject you
    take. You may think it is just something to get out of the way, but it may
    in fact turn out to be the most useful thing you know.

    Rick


    "Matt Markus" <matt_markus@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:3a43703c$3@news.devx.com...
    > Ian --
    >
    >
    > "Ian Post" <SpamFree@TheWay.ToBe> wrote in message
    > news:3a436ace$1@news.devx.com...
    > > Matt:
    > > If you are doing any coding of logic and problem solving (90% of
    > > programming), yes. If all you are doing is UI design and database
    > > read-write, then you can get by without it, but I'd never hire someone

    > that
    > > limited.

    >
    > Hey, define logic for me, just so I can find out if were on the same page.
    >
    >
    > > You don't know very many good coders, IMHO, if the best one you know
    > > couldn't solve the chicken problem.

    >
    >
    > ***? You don't even know who I'm talking about, nor have you ever seen

    any
    > of their code!!! How can you sit there and make such an ignorant,
    > presumptious statement!?!
    >
    > > OK, here's one for you: Write an application to solve the chicken

    problem.
    > > How would you do that if you do not know how yourself?

    >
    > Yeah, that's a realistic VB application!
    >
    > Write an app to provide cost estimating on construction projects,
    > > giving the user options based on current prices of product and the most
    > > cost-effective manner of completing the project. How could you do that
    > > without these types of basic math skills?

    >
    > You do *not* need to know algebra to do that, basic math skills yes, but

    not
    > algebra!
    >
    >
    >
    >




  15. #30
    Colin McGuigan Guest

    Re: Math People - Help!

    Matt Markus <matt_markus@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:3a43703c$3@news.devx.com...
    > ***? You don't even know who I'm talking about, nor have you ever seen

    any
    > of their code!!! How can you sit there and make such an ignorant,
    > presumptious statement!?!


    Well, I don't know about Ian, but that was a _very_ simple problem. I had
    similar problems when I was in 8th grade (this would've been when I was 13).
    If you're saying that the best programmer you work with can't solve an
    8th-grade level math problem, that would make me wonder as well.

    As for math and logic...the two go hand in hand. Even without the algebraic
    technique of subtracting equations, someone who is good at logic would read
    the problem and say:

    "The mother is four times as old as the daughter. In twenty years, the
    mother will only be twice as old as the daughter. Weeeell...logically,
    that means that twenty years is twice the daughters age now (four times -
    two times = two times, or twice). So the daughter's ten, the mother's
    forty."

    That didn't require any algebra at all, really.

    > Yeah, that's a realistic VB application!


    Sure it is. The chicken problem gives you a rate of production, and then
    asks you how much will be produced assuming x resources and y time.
    Rephrase the question as "If 1 1/2 workers can process 1 1/2 orders in 1 1/2
    minutes, how many minutes will it take 1 worker to process 12 orders?", and
    I think it's obvious you could have a VB app that would need to do time
    management to figure out a worker's schedule. Or how fast a printer can
    print brochures. Etc. Etc.

    --
    Colin McGuigan




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