VB and COM

[Darin Darin]

(darin) Cripes. I read and read and read, and still I don't come across stuff
like this. Was there any more details you remember, or am I missing a sarcastic
note? Lordy, I hope not.



"Karl E. Peterson" <karl@mvps.org> wrote:
>Hi Michka --
>
>> As it is, COM going forward is toast. COM on existing platforms and on
>> Millenium is not going anywhere at all.....
>
>Bingo. So, for all the arm waving and verbal jousting in this thread, MS
has already
>recognized this and moved on. :-)
>
>Later... Karl
>--
>http://www.mvps.org/vb
>
>
>
>> "Karl E. Peterson" <karl@mvps.org> wrote in message
>> news:3946cf2d$1@news.devx.com...
>> > "COM is toast." -- Anon., Redmond (1999)
>> > --
>> > http://www.mvps.org/vb
>> >
>> >
>> > <Darin Darin> wrote in message news:3943d10c$1@news.devx.com...
>> > >
>> > > There was another post I just noticed about created DLL's in VB. While
that
>> > > capability would certainly be nice, I think the authors comments about
COM
>> > > are worth noting.
><snip>
>
>
>

[Michael \(michka\) Kaplan]

(Too much whining, it makes you miss out on what is being said!)

--
MichKa
"Cause it's a bittersweet symphony, thats life..." -- The Verve

random junk of dubious value, at the multilingual,
no scripts required, http://www.trigeminal.com/

<Darin Darin> wrote in message news:394706f0$1@news.devx.com...
>
> (darin) Cripes. I read and read and read, and still I don't come across
stuff
> like this. Was there any more details you remember, or am I missing a
sarcastic
> note? Lordy, I hope not.
>
>
>
> "Karl E. Peterson" <karl@mvps.org> wrote:
> >Hi Michka --
> >
> >> As it is, COM going forward is toast. COM on existing platforms and on
> >> Millenium is not going anywhere at all.....
> >
> >Bingo. So, for all the arm waving and verbal jousting in this thread, MS
> has already
> >recognized this and moved on. :-)
> >
> >Later... Karl
> >--
> >http://www.mvps.org/vb
> >
> >
> >
> >> "Karl E. Peterson" <karl@mvps.org> wrote in message
> >> news:3946cf2d$1@news.devx.com...
> >> > "COM is toast." -- Anon., Redmond (1999)
> >> > --
> >> > http://www.mvps.org/vb
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > <Darin Darin> wrote in message news:3943d10c$1@news.devx.com...
> >> > >
> >> > > There was another post I just noticed about created DLL's in VB.
While
> that
> >> > > capability would certainly be nice, I think the authors comments
about
> COM
> >> > > are worth noting.
> ><snip>
> >
> >
> >
>

[Andy Chevin]

>>Really? Adding methods and/or properties doesn't break interfaces. VB will
>>simply create a new one for you, silently implementing the old. It will
>>simply extend the vtables

That's not always true. And I've seen Darin's frustration expressed by a lot
of VB developers. I dunno about 'COM is love', it's more common to hear 'I
hate COM', even though the problem isn't COM, rather VBs binary
compatibility limitations (and that's being kind). Considering that these
problems have been around since VB4, MS obviously hasn't done a very good
job of communicating solutions to 'the Enterprise'.

Andy.

[Andy Chevin]

> I have to question whether these people are qualified to work as
> professional developers.

In my experience, your average team is not made up of DevX posters (or
lurkers, even).
You could have experienced C, Unix, Ingres, whatever developers
cross-training within the business, you can have non-developers moving into
IT from other areas of the business, junior programmers and contractors and
permies of varying experience and ability. I reckon that's an average
'enterprise' team. These teams have the kind of problems Darin is referring
to. If they are lucky, there usually is someone who is relied on to sort it
out. I remember a project I was on (ages ago, VB4) when the entire team lost
days sorting out compatibility problems. The problems are documented now,
but most places aren't aware of this, so go through the same pain.

If I only accepted contracts on teams comprised of professional developers,
I wouldn't work.

Andy.

[Michael \(michka\) Kaplan]

I had very good reason for posting all that I did, and the reasons for
moving from COM have nothing to do with the concerns YOU have posted.

I will stand by the statement that good planning can keep the problems you
experience from in fact being problems, and recommend that you proceed to
try to find out from people how to do those things. Your time would be much
more productively spent, truly.

The issue of the future has nothing to do with the existing platforms, which
will be using the same methods as they always have. Solving this problem
will be productive for you, whether you upgrade to VB7 or not! :-)

--
MichKa
"Cause it's a bittersweet symphony, thats life..." -- The Verve

random junk of dubious value, at the multilingual,
no scripts required, http://www.trigeminal.com/

<Darin Darin> wrote in message news:394776e3@news.devx.com...
>
> (darin) Oh for crying out loud, in all those riposts of yours, never once
> did you mention anything about COM having comments like this against it
from
> "redmond". If you had, I would have stopped long ago and moved on. Anyone
> can say "Oh yeah, and that too!" So if I understand this correctly, you've
> been arguing this entire time positively about a technology that you
"knew"
> all along was "toast" and "going nowhere"?
>
> At least I don't post to this discussion just to argue. I have some
semblance
> of a reason for what I have to say. You, appearently, don't. Go get your
> jollies elsewhere.
>
>
>
> "Michael \(michka\) Kaplan" <former_mvp@spamfree.trigeminal.nospam.com>
wrote:
> >(Too much whining, it makes you miss out on what is being said!)
> >
> >--
> >MichKa
> >"Cause it's a bittersweet symphony, thats life..." -- The Verve
> >
> >random junk of dubious value, at the multilingual,
> >no scripts required, http://www.trigeminal.com/
> >
> ><Darin Darin> wrote in message news:394706f0$1@news.devx.com...
> >>
> >> (darin) Cripes. I read and read and read, and still I don't come across
> >stuff
> >> like this. Was there any more details you remember, or am I missing a
> >sarcastic
> >> note? Lordy, I hope not.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> "Karl E. Peterson" <karl@mvps.org> wrote:
> >> >Hi Michka --
> >> >
> >> >> As it is, COM going forward is toast. COM on existing platforms and
> on
> >> >> Millenium is not going anywhere at all.....
> >> >
> >> >Bingo. So, for all the arm waving and verbal jousting in this thread,
> MS
> >> has already
> >> >recognized this and moved on. :-)
> >> >
> >> >Later... Karl
> >> >--
> >> >http://www.mvps.org/vb
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> "Karl E. Peterson" <karl@mvps.org> wrote in message
> >> >> news:3946cf2d$1@news.devx.com...
> >> >> > "COM is toast." -- Anon., Redmond (1999)
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > http://www.mvps.org/vb
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > <Darin Darin> wrote in message news:3943d10c$1@news.devx.com...
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > There was another post I just noticed about created DLL's in VB.
> >While
> >> that
> >> >> > > capability would certainly be nice, I think the authors comments
> >about
> >> COM
> >> >> > > are worth noting.
> >> ><snip>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>

[Darin Darin]

(darin) Oh for crying out loud, in all those riposts of yours, never once
did you mention anything about COM having comments like this against it from
"redmond". If you had, I would have stopped long ago and moved on. Anyone
can say "Oh yeah, and that too!" So if I understand this correctly, you've
been arguing this entire time positively about a technology that you "knew"
all along was "toast" and "going nowhere"?

At least I don't post to this discussion just to argue. I have some semblance
of a reason for what I have to say. You, appearently, don't. Go get your
jollies elsewhere.



"Michael \(michka\) Kaplan" <former_mvp@spamfree.trigeminal.nospam.com> wrote:
>(Too much whining, it makes you miss out on what is being said!)
>
>--
>MichKa
>"Cause it's a bittersweet symphony, thats life..." -- The Verve
>
>random junk of dubious value, at the multilingual,
>no scripts required, http://www.trigeminal.com/
>
><Darin Darin> wrote in message news:394706f0$1@news.devx.com...
>>
>> (darin) Cripes. I read and read and read, and still I don't come across
>stuff
>> like this. Was there any more details you remember, or am I missing a
>sarcastic
>> note? Lordy, I hope not.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Karl E. Peterson" <karl@mvps.org> wrote:
>> >Hi Michka --
>> >
>> >> As it is, COM going forward is toast. COM on existing platforms and
on
>> >> Millenium is not going anywhere at all.....
>> >
>> >Bingo. So, for all the arm waving and verbal jousting in this thread,
MS
>> has already
>> >recognized this and moved on. :-)
>> >
>> >Later... Karl
>> >--
>> >http://www.mvps.org/vb
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> "Karl E. Peterson" <karl@mvps.org> wrote in message
>> >> news:3946cf2d$1@news.devx.com...
>> >> > "COM is toast." -- Anon., Redmond (1999)
>> >> > --
>> >> > http://www.mvps.org/vb
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > <Darin Darin> wrote in message news:3943d10c$1@news.devx.com...
>> >> > >
>> >> > > There was another post I just noticed about created DLL's in VB.
>While
>> that
>> >> > > capability would certainly be nice, I think the authors comments
>about
>> COM
>> >> > > are worth noting.
>> ><snip>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>

[Michael \(michka\) Kaplan]

Heh heh heh.... hoping to embarass people into constructiveness! :-)

--
MichKa
"Cause it's a bittersweet symphony, thats life..." -- The Verve

random junk of dubious value, at the multilingual,
no scripts required, http://www.trigeminal.com/

<Patrick Troughton Patrick> wrote in message
news:3947841e$1@news.devx.com...
>
> Is it just me or has anyone else noticed how often Michael Kaplan whines
and
> complains about other people who whine and complain too much?
>
> /Pat
>
> "Michael \(michka\) Kaplan" <former_mvp@spamfree.trigeminal.nospam.com>
wrote:
> >(Too much whining, it makes you miss out on what is being said!)
> >
> >--
> >MichKa
>

[Patrick Troughton Patrick]

Is it just me or has anyone else noticed how often Michael Kaplan whines and
complains about other people who whine and complain too much?

/Pat

"Michael \(michka\) Kaplan" <former_mvp@spamfree.trigeminal.nospam.com> wrote:
>(Too much whining, it makes you miss out on what is being said!)
>
>--
>MichKa

[Karl E. Peterson]

> So if I understand this correctly, you've
> been arguing this entire time positively about a technology that you "knew"
> all along was "toast" and "going nowhere"?

Darin, meet Michka! Michka, Darin. <LOL>

Later... Karl
--
http://www.mvps.org/vb

[Karl E. Peterson]

Hi Darin --

> (darin) Cripes. I read and read and read, and still I don't come across stuff
> like this. Was there any more details you remember, or am I missing a sarcastic
> note? Lordy, I hope not.

No, they'd *never* say that publicly. But it's fairly clear from the "writing on the
wall" if you just watch what they're up to. Side-by-side installs in W2K? COM+?
Yeah, COM is (and always was) toast.

Later... Karl
--
http://www.mvps.org/vb



> "Karl E. Peterson" <karl@mvps.org> wrote:
> >Hi Michka --
> >
> >> As it is, COM going forward is toast. COM on existing platforms and on
> >> Millenium is not going anywhere at all.....
> >
> >Bingo. So, for all the arm waving and verbal jousting in this thread, MS
> has already
> >recognized this and moved on. :-)
> >
> >Later... Karl
> >--
> >http://www.mvps.org/vb
> >
> >
> >
> >> "Karl E. Peterson" <karl@mvps.org> wrote in message
> >> news:3946cf2d$1@news.devx.com...
> >> > "COM is toast." -- Anon., Redmond (1999)
> >> > --
> >> > http://www.mvps.org/vb
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > <Darin Darin> wrote in message news:3943d10c$1@news.devx.com...
> >> > >
> >> > > There was another post I just noticed about created DLL's in VB. While
> that
> >> > > capability would certainly be nice, I think the authors comments about
> COM
> >> > > are worth noting.
> ><snip>
> >
> >
> >
>

[Jason Bock]

"Karl E. Peterson" <karl@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:3947ad85$1@news.devx.com...
> No, they'd *never* say that publicly. But it's fairly clear from the
"writing on the
> wall" if you just watch what they're up to. Side-by-side installs in W2K?
COM+?
> Yeah, COM is (and always was) toast.

But I like toast .

Seriously, I'm (still) not sure what was meant by original anon comment of
"COM is toast". COM+ doesn't eliminate COM; it (more or less) adds the
contextural functionality of MTS directly into COM. Therefore, no more
SafeRef calls are needed, since all object refs have a context wrapper.

Or am I missing something here?

Regards,

Jason

[JasonL]

<Darin Darin> wroteI'll have
> to sell them on Win2k as well. Sheesh!
Now you're getting it!

[Karl E. Peterson]

Hi Jason --

> > Yeah, COM is (and always was) toast.
>
> But I like toast .

Heh. Burnt toast?

> Seriously, I'm (still) not sure what was meant by original anon comment of
> "COM is toast". COM+ doesn't eliminate COM; it (more or less) adds the
> contextural functionality of MTS directly into COM. Therefore, no more
> SafeRef calls are needed, since all object refs have a context wrapper.
>
> Or am I missing something here?

I think VB7 will contain surprises not yet speculated out here. (How's that for a
"Duh!" comment? <g>) Odds are, much of what we (in particular, the BB hacker types
in our midst) do now won't be doable then. Not sure what more I can say at the
moment.

Sorry... Karl

[Jason Bock]

"Karl E. Peterson" <karl@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:3947d1e2@news.devx.com...
> Hi Jason --
> > Seriously, I'm (still) not sure what was meant by original anon comment
of
> > "COM is toast". COM+ doesn't eliminate COM; it (more or less) adds the
> > contextural functionality of MTS directly into COM. Therefore, no more
> > SafeRef calls are needed, since all object refs have a context wrapper.
> >
> > Or am I missing something here?
>
> I think VB7 will contain surprises not yet speculated out here. (How's
that for a
> "Duh!" comment? <g>) Odds are, much of what we (in particular, the BB
hacker types
> in our midst) do now won't be doable then. Not sure what more I can say
at the
> moment.

Ah, one of those NDAs for VB7, eh? Lucky *******!

Regards,

Jason

[Michael \(michka\) Kaplan]

Karl would never even hint at or imply such a thing, and I do not blame him
given the secrecy.

--
MichKa
"Cause it's a bittersweet symphony, thats life..." -- The Verve

random junk of dubious value, at the multilingual,
no scripts required, http://www.trigeminal.com/

"Jason Bock" <jrbock@execpc.com> wrote in message
news:3947d3f4@news.devx.com...
>
> "Karl E. Peterson" <karl@mvps.org> wrote in message
> news:3947d1e2@news.devx.com...
> > Hi Jason --
> > > Seriously, I'm (still) not sure what was meant by original anon
comment
> of
> > > "COM is toast". COM+ doesn't eliminate COM; it (more or less) adds
the
> > > contextural functionality of MTS directly into COM. Therefore, no
more
> > > SafeRef calls are needed, since all object refs have a context
wrapper.
> > >
> > > Or am I missing something here?
> >
> > I think VB7 will contain surprises not yet speculated out here. (How's
> that for a
> > "Duh!" comment? <g>) Odds are, much of what we (in particular, the BB
> hacker types
> > in our midst) do now won't be doable then. Not sure what more I can say
> at the
> > moment.
>
> Ah, one of those NDAs for VB7, eh? Lucky *******!
>
> Regards,
>
> Jason
>
>