Re: Will VB7's new ---- re powerbuilder

[R Draycott]

I only hope that new stuff does intimidate micky mouse developers (group 1)
at least that way we get a dev environment that delivers.
Having used both dev environments in real earnest , and catagorising myself
in group 2 I personaly think that its about time MS listened to Programmers
rather than the plug and play 'Ive done some VBA macros i'll call myself
a VB programmer!!!!' boys.
All the things promised in VB,inheritance etc have been intergral to PB for
a number of years, add its platform independance and intrinsic SQL and you
have a very very powerful environment. Enevitably VB is lightly to go down
this route and would have if MS where not forever simplyfying things so that
realy stupid people could understand the concepts. What i think most real
developers with alternative language experiance seem to hate about vb is
the fact that there are so many embeded ways to do a task eg rdo,DAO,ADO
and no definative 'do this this way' as a start, add to that microsofts non
standard approach to expressing and accessing data 'workspaces!!!!' and you
end up language that has been hobbled in the intrest of making it simple.

Conceptually I believe that VBs widespread use by all and sundry (group 1)
has severly diluted the VB skillset out there, take a look at the source
from a few apps and you will quickly see the apawling code that the plug
and play approach leaves you with, ie dificult to maintain, and debug with

[John Hamilton]

....
> has severly diluted the VB skillset out there, take a look at the source
> from a few apps and you will quickly see the apawling code that the plug
....
Not to mention functional illiteracy.

[Vlad Ivanov]

"John Hamilton" <john_hamilton@infoimage.com> wrote:
>....
>> has severly diluted the VB skillset out there, take a look at the source
>> from a few apps and you will quickly see the apawling code that the plug
>....
>Not to mention functional illiteracy.
>
>

When you both get up on the sandbox and start flinging your "us elite developers"
and "those dumb others" definitions, do you for a second consider that maybe
you both are incompetent and ignorant compared to many here?

Just to illustrate how you both sound to those who have respect for others,
here is message that i found on www.codeproject.com forum:

You can find the original here: http://www.codeproject.com/script/ru...=3007#xx3007xx

<begin quote>

For those who know C++ there is very little to "learn" in C# or VB7. Those
two things are looking like a little kid's toys, and I can assure you that
I can code it without any learning.

I think that if M$ will continue to go that way I will rather switch to Unix,
since C# and VB7 look not only primitive and limited but also boring, waste
of time basically.

<end quote>

Rings any bells in your "guru" heads?

[Oren]

> I think that if M$ will continue to go that way I will rather switch to
Unix,

:0), Just be like me and hack assembler into your vb executable, =0)

No, need to worry about primitive HLLs that have no clue how to natively
access registers and have those **** "types", ugh, and error handling, dear
god who the **** invented overflow checks <although I actually turn those
off, :0)>, ugh, ugh, ugh.

Oren

ergh, I really do hack assembler into my executables when I feel like
getting that extra kick out of life, someone help me, please. ;0(, =0).

[Aaron Sevivas]

I hate it when programming turns into a pissing contest. Newbies are newbies.
Even you were a newbie once. The next time you see someone call themselves
a Vb programmer after writing a Vb macro, support him/her and help him/her
get to the next level of programming (I think you called it group 2) instead
of feeling threatened by them. Just my opinion..

"R Draycott" <rdraycott@cpl.co.uk> wrote:
>
>I only hope that new stuff does intimidate micky mouse developers (group
1)
>at least that way we get a dev environment that delivers.
>Having used both dev environments in real earnest , and catagorising myself
>in group 2 I personaly think that its about time MS listened to Programmers
>rather than the plug and play 'Ive done some VBA macros i'll call myself
>a VB programmer!!!!' boys.
>All the things promised in VB,inheritance etc have been intergral to PB
for
>a number of years, add its platform independance and intrinsic SQL and you
>have a very very powerful environment. Enevitably VB is lightly to go down
>this route and would have if MS where not forever simplyfying things so
that
>realy stupid people could understand the concepts. What i think most real
>developers with alternative language experiance seem to hate about vb is
>the fact that there are so many embeded ways to do a task eg rdo,DAO,ADO
>and no definative 'do this this way' as a start, add to that microsofts
non
>standard approach to expressing and accessing data 'workspaces!!!!' and
you
>end up language that has been hobbled in the intrest of making it simple.
>
>Conceptually I believe that VBs widespread use by all and sundry (group
1)
>has severly diluted the VB skillset out there, take a look at the source
>from a few apps and you will quickly see the apawling code that the plug
>and play approach leaves you with, ie dificult to maintain, and debug with