-
Re: strPtr()?
I don't think your comparison to spam is fair. John wasn't posting to
groups where his question was off-topic. They are two separate places to
discuss the same thing. There are several other VB forums at web sites like
CodeGuru. Should he avoid these as well, because it would be easier if
everybody just picked one?
At first it does seem nice to only have one uber-NNTP server that everybody
uses, instead of DevX and MSNews. But variety is good. It's better for
people to have options when they want to discuss Visual Basic or anything
else. I think there is a different vibe to DevX and MSNews, and often one
offers information that isn't on the other.
-- Matthew Solnit
msolnit@yahoo.com
"Michael (michka) Kaplan" <former_mvp@spamfree.trigeminal.nospam.com> wrote
in message news:39082203$1@news.devx.com...
> Fine Jon.
>
> I will be filtering all your posts in the future. Others will do so as
well,
> they will just not mention it. But the fact that you have absolutely no
> interest in the fact that many people do look at both servers and the fact
> that every argument you use below are the SAME rationalizations that
people
> use when they post SPAM to multiple sites should be your clue that you are
> doing something that is more than just a tad inappropriate.
-
Re: strPtr()?
> At first it does seem nice to only have one uber-NNTP
> server that everybody uses, instead of DevX and msnews.
> But variety is good. It's better for people to have options
> when they want to discuss Visual Basic or anything else.
> I think there is a different vibe to DevX and msnews, and
> often one offers information that isn't on the other.
Matthew: It would have been considerate of the fact that many people
frequent both servers if he had posted his question at one site, waited a
day or so to see if it was answered, then posted at the other if it was not.
We can't make a rule requiring that people be considerate, but Michael is
free to not help those he considers rude.
The key is that this is a *community,* and if an individual puts his or her
personal convenience ahead of the good of the community, s/he can expect to
receive a negative reaction. Posting the same question to multiple locations
simultaneously is the equivalent (to me, at least) of parking in a
handicapped space: it may seem like a small thing and perhaps nobody gets
hurt, but it has the potential to cause well-meaning people significant
inconvenience, if they waste time answering a question in one location only
to find that it was previously answered elsewhere. That time could have been
spent helping someone whose question hadn't been answered. It's all about
thinking about other people before oneself.
---
Phil Weber
-
Re: strPtr()?
> At first it does seem nice to only have one uber-NNTP
> server that everybody uses, instead of DevX and msnews.
> But variety is good. It's better for people to have options
> when they want to discuss Visual Basic or anything else.
> I think there is a different vibe to DevX and msnews, and
> often one offers information that isn't on the other.
Matthew: It would have been considerate of the fact that many people
frequent both servers if he had posted his question at one site, waited a
day or so to see if it was answered, then posted at the other if it was not.
We can't make a rule requiring that people be considerate, but Michael is
free to not help those he considers rude.
The key is that this is a *community,* and if an individual puts his or her
personal convenience ahead of the good of the community, s/he can expect to
receive a negative reaction. Posting the same question to multiple locations
simultaneously is the equivalent (to me, at least) of parking in a
handicapped space: it may seem like a small thing and perhaps nobody gets
hurt, but it has the potential to cause well-meaning people significant
inconvenience, if they waste time answering a question in one location only
to find that it was previously answered elsewhere. That time could have been
spent helping someone whose question hadn't been answered. It's all about
thinking about other people before oneself.
---
Phil Weber
-
Re: strPtr()?
John,
If you are not getting enough responses, maybe you should change your question.
If you post something like 'My App Crashes - Can anyone help' you will get
very little response. If you take the time to narrow down the problem and
post something like 'My app crashes on this line when doing this' you will
get alot more responses.
And use at least a vaguely believeable email address.
Mike
"- John of Arc -" <666@666.666> wrote:
>I only posted the question in the two places, and that with much fear and
>trepidation.
>
>As I use OE5, I don't know how to double-post to two ngs on two different
>servers.
>Feel free to inform me, if it is possible at all.
>
>The way it actually works in my experience is that I post a question and
the
>answers come filtering in one every few days over the next couple of weeks,
>if anyone answers at all. So, if one wants an answer, one posts to all
of
>the places where the question is appropriate, especially given that
>generally the audiences don't seem to overlap. I think posting to these
two
>API newsgroups is completely in order to get exposure. Often, there are
a
>number of insights into a particular matter posted by different people,
so
>simply getting a single "answer" really isn't a tremendously ambitious goal
>when trying to find out about a topic.
>
>Unless I am not seeing all the posts to the other group, one will have
to
>define "myriad" as meaning "5". And, given that the discussion there is
>basically redundant, the actual meaningful number of informative posts is
>more like "2".
>
>Thanks everyone for the responses to both ngs.
>
>
>Michael (michka) Kaplan <former_mvp@spamfree.trigeminal.nospam.com> wrote
in
>message news:390739c2$1@news.devx.com...
>> LOL, no problem. I just wish people would pick a place and then give
>people
>> a chance to answer before picking somewhere else..... considering how
>> quickly people posted answers and all.
>>
>> I do not think multiposting to msnews and devx is useful as it forces
>> conversations to not be easily followable in both places, etc.
>>
>> --
>> MichKa
>> (insensitive fruitarian)
>>
>> random junk of dubious value, a multilingual website, the
>> 54-language TSI Form/Report to Data Access Page Wizard,
>> and lots of replication "stuff" at the (no scripts required!)
>> http://www.trigeminal.com/
>>
>>
>> "Phil Weber" <pweber@teleport.com> wrote in message
>> news:39068886$1@news.devx.com...
>> > > microsoft.public.vb.winapi is where I saw him post....
>> >
>> > Michael: Thanks. I searched on deja.com before I asked, but couldn't
>find
>> > anything. I was mostly concerned that he may have multi-posted to this
>> > server, where I can do something about it. ;-)
>> > ---
>> > Phil Weber
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
-
Re: strPtr()?
John,
If you are not getting enough responses, maybe you should change your question.
If you post something like 'My App Crashes - Can anyone help' you will get
very little response. If you take the time to narrow down the problem and
post something like 'My app crashes on this line when doing this' you will
get alot more responses.
And use at least a vaguely believeable email address.
Mike
"- John of Arc -" <666@666.666> wrote:
>I only posted the question in the two places, and that with much fear and
>trepidation.
>
>As I use OE5, I don't know how to double-post to two ngs on two different
>servers.
>Feel free to inform me, if it is possible at all.
>
>The way it actually works in my experience is that I post a question and
the
>answers come filtering in one every few days over the next couple of weeks,
>if anyone answers at all. So, if one wants an answer, one posts to all
of
>the places where the question is appropriate, especially given that
>generally the audiences don't seem to overlap. I think posting to these
two
>API newsgroups is completely in order to get exposure. Often, there are
a
>number of insights into a particular matter posted by different people,
so
>simply getting a single "answer" really isn't a tremendously ambitious goal
>when trying to find out about a topic.
>
>Unless I am not seeing all the posts to the other group, one will have
to
>define "myriad" as meaning "5". And, given that the discussion there is
>basically redundant, the actual meaningful number of informative posts is
>more like "2".
>
>Thanks everyone for the responses to both ngs.
>
>
>Michael (michka) Kaplan <former_mvp@spamfree.trigeminal.nospam.com> wrote
in
>message news:390739c2$1@news.devx.com...
>> LOL, no problem. I just wish people would pick a place and then give
>people
>> a chance to answer before picking somewhere else..... considering how
>> quickly people posted answers and all.
>>
>> I do not think multiposting to msnews and devx is useful as it forces
>> conversations to not be easily followable in both places, etc.
>>
>> --
>> MichKa
>> (insensitive fruitarian)
>>
>> random junk of dubious value, a multilingual website, the
>> 54-language TSI Form/Report to Data Access Page Wizard,
>> and lots of replication "stuff" at the (no scripts required!)
>> http://www.trigeminal.com/
>>
>>
>> "Phil Weber" <pweber@teleport.com> wrote in message
>> news:39068886$1@news.devx.com...
>> > > microsoft.public.vb.winapi is where I saw him post....
>> >
>> > Michael: Thanks. I searched on deja.com before I asked, but couldn't
>find
>> > anything. I was mostly concerned that he may have multi-posted to this
>> > server, where I can do something about it. ;-)
>> > ---
>> > Phil Weber
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
-
Re: strPtr()?
Thank you for putting this in much more understandable terms. I agree with
every word and maybe now people will not think me such an ogre. :-)
--
MichKa
"Cause it's a bittersweet symphony, thats life..." -- The Verve
random junk of dubious value, at the multilingual,
no scripts required, http://www.trigeminal.com/
"Phil Weber" <pweber@teleport.com> wrote in message
news:39085d14$1@news.devx.com...
> > At first it does seem nice to only have one uber-NNTP
> > server that everybody uses, instead of DevX and msnews.
> > But variety is good. It's better for people to have options
> > when they want to discuss Visual Basic or anything else.
> > I think there is a different vibe to DevX and msnews, and
> > often one offers information that isn't on the other.
>
> Matthew: It would have been considerate of the fact that many people
> frequent both servers if he had posted his question at one site, waited a
> day or so to see if it was answered, then posted at the other if it was
not.
> We can't make a rule requiring that people be considerate, but Michael is
> free to not help those he considers rude.
>
> The key is that this is a *community,* and if an individual puts his or
her
> personal convenience ahead of the good of the community, s/he can expect
to
> receive a negative reaction. Posting the same question to multiple
locations
> simultaneously is the equivalent (to me, at least) of parking in a
> handicapped space: it may seem like a small thing and perhaps nobody gets
> hurt, but it has the potential to cause well-meaning people significant
> inconvenience, if they waste time answering a question in one location
only
> to find that it was previously answered elsewhere. That time could have
been
> spent helping someone whose question hadn't been answered. It's all about
> thinking about other people before oneself.
> ---
> Phil Weber
>
>
-
Re: strPtr()?
Thank you for putting this in much more understandable terms. I agree with
every word and maybe now people will not think me such an ogre. :-)
--
MichKa
"Cause it's a bittersweet symphony, thats life..." -- The Verve
random junk of dubious value, at the multilingual,
no scripts required, http://www.trigeminal.com/
"Phil Weber" <pweber@teleport.com> wrote in message
news:39085d14$1@news.devx.com...
> > At first it does seem nice to only have one uber-NNTP
> > server that everybody uses, instead of DevX and msnews.
> > But variety is good. It's better for people to have options
> > when they want to discuss Visual Basic or anything else.
> > I think there is a different vibe to DevX and msnews, and
> > often one offers information that isn't on the other.
>
> Matthew: It would have been considerate of the fact that many people
> frequent both servers if he had posted his question at one site, waited a
> day or so to see if it was answered, then posted at the other if it was
not.
> We can't make a rule requiring that people be considerate, but Michael is
> free to not help those he considers rude.
>
> The key is that this is a *community,* and if an individual puts his or
her
> personal convenience ahead of the good of the community, s/he can expect
to
> receive a negative reaction. Posting the same question to multiple
locations
> simultaneously is the equivalent (to me, at least) of parking in a
> handicapped space: it may seem like a small thing and perhaps nobody gets
> hurt, but it has the potential to cause well-meaning people significant
> inconvenience, if they waste time answering a question in one location
only
> to find that it was previously answered elsewhere. That time could have
been
> spent helping someone whose question hadn't been answered. It's all about
> thinking about other people before oneself.
> ---
> Phil Weber
>
>
-
Re: strPtr()?
Matthew,
See Phil's comments for an excellent clarification of my feeling here.
My point about spam was that people who DO spam newsgroups use the exact
same arguments.... and when you find yourself making such arguments, you
shoiuld consider whether you are doing the same sort of thing, just to a
lesser degree.
Is it nice that a person is being more considerate than a true spam artist,
but less considerate than the "polite" person that Phil's post describes?
Sure. Would it be nicer if they were closer to Phil's post? Of course. And
is it reasonable for anyone to decide not to help people who do not show the
consideration? Or course.
--
MichKa
"Cause it's a bittersweet symphony, thats life..." -- The Verve
random junk of dubious value, at the multilingual,
no scripts required, http://www.trigeminal.com/
"Matthew Solnit" <msolnit@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:39083b61@news.devx.com...
> I don't think your comparison to spam is fair. John wasn't posting to
> groups where his question was off-topic. They are two separate places to
> discuss the same thing. There are several other VB forums at web sites
like
> CodeGuru. Should he avoid these as well, because it would be easier if
> everybody just picked one?
>
> At first it does seem nice to only have one uber-NNTP server that
everybody
> uses, instead of DevX and MSNews. But variety is good. It's better for
> people to have options when they want to discuss Visual Basic or anything
> else. I think there is a different vibe to DevX and MSNews, and often one
> offers information that isn't on the other.
>
> -- Matthew Solnit
> msolnit@yahoo.com
>
> "Michael (michka) Kaplan" <former_mvp@spamfree.trigeminal.nospam.com>
wrote
> in message news:39082203$1@news.devx.com...
> > Fine Jon.
> >
> > I will be filtering all your posts in the future. Others will do so as
> well,
> > they will just not mention it. But the fact that you have absolutely no
> > interest in the fact that many people do look at both servers and the
fact
> > that every argument you use below are the SAME rationalizations that
> people
> > use when they post SPAM to multiple sites should be your clue that you
are
> > doing something that is more than just a tad inappropriate.
>
>
-
Re: strPtr()?
Matthew,
See Phil's comments for an excellent clarification of my feeling here.
My point about spam was that people who DO spam newsgroups use the exact
same arguments.... and when you find yourself making such arguments, you
shoiuld consider whether you are doing the same sort of thing, just to a
lesser degree.
Is it nice that a person is being more considerate than a true spam artist,
but less considerate than the "polite" person that Phil's post describes?
Sure. Would it be nicer if they were closer to Phil's post? Of course. And
is it reasonable for anyone to decide not to help people who do not show the
consideration? Or course.
--
MichKa
"Cause it's a bittersweet symphony, thats life..." -- The Verve
random junk of dubious value, at the multilingual,
no scripts required, http://www.trigeminal.com/
"Matthew Solnit" <msolnit@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:39083b61@news.devx.com...
> I don't think your comparison to spam is fair. John wasn't posting to
> groups where his question was off-topic. They are two separate places to
> discuss the same thing. There are several other VB forums at web sites
like
> CodeGuru. Should he avoid these as well, because it would be easier if
> everybody just picked one?
>
> At first it does seem nice to only have one uber-NNTP server that
everybody
> uses, instead of DevX and MSNews. But variety is good. It's better for
> people to have options when they want to discuss Visual Basic or anything
> else. I think there is a different vibe to DevX and MSNews, and often one
> offers information that isn't on the other.
>
> -- Matthew Solnit
> msolnit@yahoo.com
>
> "Michael (michka) Kaplan" <former_mvp@spamfree.trigeminal.nospam.com>
wrote
> in message news:39082203$1@news.devx.com...
> > Fine Jon.
> >
> > I will be filtering all your posts in the future. Others will do so as
> well,
> > they will just not mention it. But the fact that you have absolutely no
> > interest in the fact that many people do look at both servers and the
fact
> > that every argument you use below are the SAME rationalizations that
> people
> > use when they post SPAM to multiple sites should be your clue that you
are
> > doing something that is more than just a tad inappropriate.
>
>
-
Re: strPtr()?
>It's all about thinking about other people before oneself.
A fine suggestion! If such a principle were applied globally the world
would be a much better place. I seem to remember some suggesting it
before, something like 2000 years ago, unfortunately the message didn't go
down too well with general populace at that time either. :-(
Sorry, just slightly off the API topic.
--
Anthony Jones
Secta Group Ltd
AnthonyWJones@msn.com
-
Re: strPtr()?
>It's all about thinking about other people before oneself.
A fine suggestion! If such a principle were applied globally the world
would be a much better place. I seem to remember some suggesting it
before, something like 2000 years ago, unfortunately the message didn't go
down too well with general populace at that time either. :-(
Sorry, just slightly off the API topic.
--
Anthony Jones
Secta Group Ltd
AnthonyWJones@msn.com
-
Re: strPtr()?
I agree with what's been said. Phil is right that a 1-2 day wait would have
been more appropriate. I guess I never thought about how many people
actually use both servers, even though it's fairly obvious from the headers.
This is probably going overboard, but I did recently post to vb.oop and to
microsoft.public.vb.com at the same time, and I would like to apologize. I
won't do that again. Now, how come nobody responded goldangit?
-- Matthew Solnit
msolnit@yahoo.com
P.S. Phil, how come you changed "MSNews" to "msnews" when you quoted me?
"Michael (michka) Kaplan" <former_mvp@spamfree.trigeminal.nospam.com> wrote
in message news:39091afe$1@news.devx.com...
> Thank you for putting this in much more understandable terms. I agree with
> every word and maybe now people will not think me such an ogre. :-)
>
> --
> MichKa
>
> "Phil Weber" <pweber@teleport.com> wrote in message
> news:39085d14$1@news.devx.com...
> > > At first it does seem nice to only have one uber-NNTP
> > > server that everybody uses, instead of DevX and msnews.
> > > But variety is good. It's better for people to have options
> > > when they want to discuss Visual Basic or anything else.
> > > I think there is a different vibe to DevX and msnews, and
> > > often one offers information that isn't on the other.
> >
> > Matthew: It would have been considerate of the fact that many people
> > frequent both servers if he had posted his question at one site, waited
a
> > day or so to see if it was answered, then posted at the other if it was
> not.
> > We can't make a rule requiring that people be considerate, but Michael
is
> > free to not help those he considers rude.
> >
> > The key is that this is a *community,* and if an individual puts his or
> her
> > personal convenience ahead of the good of the community, s/he can expect
> to
> > receive a negative reaction. Posting the same question to multiple
> locations
> > simultaneously is the equivalent (to me, at least) of parking in a
> > handicapped space: it may seem like a small thing and perhaps nobody
gets
> > hurt, but it has the potential to cause well-meaning people significant
> > inconvenience, if they waste time answering a question in one location
> only
> > to find that it was previously answered elsewhere. That time could have
> been
> > spent helping someone whose question hadn't been answered. It's all
about
> > thinking about other people before oneself.
> > ---
> > Phil Weber
-
Re: strPtr()?
I agree with what's been said. Phil is right that a 1-2 day wait would have
been more appropriate. I guess I never thought about how many people
actually use both servers, even though it's fairly obvious from the headers.
This is probably going overboard, but I did recently post to vb.oop and to
microsoft.public.vb.com at the same time, and I would like to apologize. I
won't do that again. Now, how come nobody responded goldangit?
-- Matthew Solnit
msolnit@yahoo.com
P.S. Phil, how come you changed "MSNews" to "msnews" when you quoted me?
"Michael (michka) Kaplan" <former_mvp@spamfree.trigeminal.nospam.com> wrote
in message news:39091afe$1@news.devx.com...
> Thank you for putting this in much more understandable terms. I agree with
> every word and maybe now people will not think me such an ogre. :-)
>
> --
> MichKa
>
> "Phil Weber" <pweber@teleport.com> wrote in message
> news:39085d14$1@news.devx.com...
> > > At first it does seem nice to only have one uber-NNTP
> > > server that everybody uses, instead of DevX and msnews.
> > > But variety is good. It's better for people to have options
> > > when they want to discuss Visual Basic or anything else.
> > > I think there is a different vibe to DevX and msnews, and
> > > often one offers information that isn't on the other.
> >
> > Matthew: It would have been considerate of the fact that many people
> > frequent both servers if he had posted his question at one site, waited
a
> > day or so to see if it was answered, then posted at the other if it was
> not.
> > We can't make a rule requiring that people be considerate, but Michael
is
> > free to not help those he considers rude.
> >
> > The key is that this is a *community,* and if an individual puts his or
> her
> > personal convenience ahead of the good of the community, s/he can expect
> to
> > receive a negative reaction. Posting the same question to multiple
> locations
> > simultaneously is the equivalent (to me, at least) of parking in a
> > handicapped space: it may seem like a small thing and perhaps nobody
gets
> > hurt, but it has the potential to cause well-meaning people significant
> > inconvenience, if they waste time answering a question in one location
> only
> > to find that it was previously answered elsewhere. That time could have
> been
> > spent helping someone whose question hadn't been answered. It's all
about
> > thinking about other people before oneself.
> > ---
> > Phil Weber
-
Re: strPtr()?
Matthew Solnit <msolnit@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:39098b76@news.devx.com...
....
> This is probably going overboard, but I did recently post to vb.oop and to
> microsoft.public.vb.com at the same time, and I would like to apologize.
I
> won't do that again. Now, how come nobody responded goldangit?
>
> -- Matthew Solnit
> msolnit@yahoo.com
That's the way the way with certain topics and with many newsgroups.
People are quick to answer the common questions and easy questions, and
they're quick to attack people.
Waiting a day two before posting to a second server is a very good idea. I
will do that in the future.
Thank you, Matthew Solnit, for approaching the topic with a reasonable
attitude.
My reply email address is real one. I is foolish to use a real one (one's
own, at least) as the primary email address for a news account. Relative
anonymity is one of the good things about the internet, especially given its
huge population and the potential for exploitation.
I don't know if the advice on writing subject lines is generic in nature or
not. If not, I have never been guilty of posting anything like a like "My
app crashes on this line when doing this" or, what in my opinion is worse,
asking people to write code for me (though there are a couple of newsgroups
that seem very friendly to code-exchange). I prefer to ask for general
advice on a topic, and pointers to URLs and MSDN Library/Knowledge Base
article titles and 'Q' numbers, as well as topics in the SDK and posts
listed on deja and the other news search services.
The haranguing responses to my explanation of why I double-posted do not
address the rationale I presented, nor do they address the notion that the
internet is the last place where legalism, purism, fundamentalism, elitism,
and conformism should be the norm. My friendly and legitimate response was
simply written off. If "community" means anything real, then the immediate
and reactionary attacks on my posts violate the idea of "community". If they
were friendly suggestions, that would be one thing. If they were open to
suggestion, as I am apparently supposed to be, that would be one thing. The
flaming responses to my post might be in order if my explanation had been
malicious, but it wasn't.
Newsgroups and email lists bring out the worst and unfriendliest behaviour
in people, I've noticed.
Filtering me is pretty reactionary, announcing it on the newsgroup is pretty
rude.
I have been participating in newsgroups with the initial attacker for a
couple of years now, under several different accounts, and I have so far
been viewed as a normal and helpful participant of newsgroups. Where I have
known anything on a topic, I have been quick to offer suggestions to
questions asked. The sudden reaction to a perceived infraction is
completely un-called-for.
It's a very strange and rare experience, if you've actually had spammers
take the time to explain their rationale to you. The name-calling doesn't
refute my explanation any more than anything else that has been said. If
you are of the opinion that there should be only one school of thought on
the topic of newsgroup etiquette, and that school of thought should be your
own, then we certainly have nothing else to talk about. If it is your aim
to convince me of your extreme and impractical position (it is extreme and
impractical when applied to the extreme extent that it is being applied
here.), you'll have to take a different tack. I see that you are not open
to re-thinking your opinion on the topic. Given that, I wonder why you
expect that I should?
I disagree with the spirit and the attitude of the attacks more than I do
the idea behind them.
For those who get religious about the various schools of "netiquette" -
well, you probably aren't really listening at this point anyway, just typing
your next flame. I will always disagree with any kind of policy or opinion
that in effect squelches conversation on newsgroups and has the effect of
reducing the effectiveness of newsgroups as a vehicle for conversion and the
sharing of knowledge and ideas.
"Community" and "government" are two very different things. Government is
concerned about rules and enforcement and conformity. Community is the
friendly forum for the participation and interaction of individuals. A real
community is not interested in attacking and ostracizing, especially over an
occasional perceived aberration. A real community is not quick to react.
Community is not about catching infractions. A community does not write off
a long-time participant over a single disagreement. A real community has a
helpful attitude. A real community is more interested in the whole organic
process and its effective outcome than it is on enforcing form.
I agree that cross-posting is generally a bad idea. Let us note the word
"generally".
Rules and understandings should exist and be held for a good reason. They
should be generally applied toward the end of that reason.
They should be ignored when they detract from that reason.
-
Re: strPtr()?
Matthew Solnit <msolnit@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:39098b76@news.devx.com...
....
> This is probably going overboard, but I did recently post to vb.oop and to
> microsoft.public.vb.com at the same time, and I would like to apologize.
I
> won't do that again. Now, how come nobody responded goldangit?
>
> -- Matthew Solnit
> msolnit@yahoo.com
That's the way the way with certain topics and with many newsgroups.
People are quick to answer the common questions and easy questions, and
they're quick to attack people.
Waiting a day two before posting to a second server is a very good idea. I
will do that in the future.
Thank you, Matthew Solnit, for approaching the topic with a reasonable
attitude.
My reply email address is real one. I is foolish to use a real one (one's
own, at least) as the primary email address for a news account. Relative
anonymity is one of the good things about the internet, especially given its
huge population and the potential for exploitation.
I don't know if the advice on writing subject lines is generic in nature or
not. If not, I have never been guilty of posting anything like a like "My
app crashes on this line when doing this" or, what in my opinion is worse,
asking people to write code for me (though there are a couple of newsgroups
that seem very friendly to code-exchange). I prefer to ask for general
advice on a topic, and pointers to URLs and MSDN Library/Knowledge Base
article titles and 'Q' numbers, as well as topics in the SDK and posts
listed on deja and the other news search services.
The haranguing responses to my explanation of why I double-posted do not
address the rationale I presented, nor do they address the notion that the
internet is the last place where legalism, purism, fundamentalism, elitism,
and conformism should be the norm. My friendly and legitimate response was
simply written off. If "community" means anything real, then the immediate
and reactionary attacks on my posts violate the idea of "community". If they
were friendly suggestions, that would be one thing. If they were open to
suggestion, as I am apparently supposed to be, that would be one thing. The
flaming responses to my post might be in order if my explanation had been
malicious, but it wasn't.
Newsgroups and email lists bring out the worst and unfriendliest behaviour
in people, I've noticed.
Filtering me is pretty reactionary, announcing it on the newsgroup is pretty
rude.
I have been participating in newsgroups with the initial attacker for a
couple of years now, under several different accounts, and I have so far
been viewed as a normal and helpful participant of newsgroups. Where I have
known anything on a topic, I have been quick to offer suggestions to
questions asked. The sudden reaction to a perceived infraction is
completely un-called-for.
It's a very strange and rare experience, if you've actually had spammers
take the time to explain their rationale to you. The name-calling doesn't
refute my explanation any more than anything else that has been said. If
you are of the opinion that there should be only one school of thought on
the topic of newsgroup etiquette, and that school of thought should be your
own, then we certainly have nothing else to talk about. If it is your aim
to convince me of your extreme and impractical position (it is extreme and
impractical when applied to the extreme extent that it is being applied
here.), you'll have to take a different tack. I see that you are not open
to re-thinking your opinion on the topic. Given that, I wonder why you
expect that I should?
I disagree with the spirit and the attitude of the attacks more than I do
the idea behind them.
For those who get religious about the various schools of "netiquette" -
well, you probably aren't really listening at this point anyway, just typing
your next flame. I will always disagree with any kind of policy or opinion
that in effect squelches conversation on newsgroups and has the effect of
reducing the effectiveness of newsgroups as a vehicle for conversion and the
sharing of knowledge and ideas.
"Community" and "government" are two very different things. Government is
concerned about rules and enforcement and conformity. Community is the
friendly forum for the participation and interaction of individuals. A real
community is not interested in attacking and ostracizing, especially over an
occasional perceived aberration. A real community is not quick to react.
Community is not about catching infractions. A community does not write off
a long-time participant over a single disagreement. A real community has a
helpful attitude. A real community is more interested in the whole organic
process and its effective outcome than it is on enforcing form.
I agree that cross-posting is generally a bad idea. Let us note the word
"generally".
Rules and understandings should exist and be held for a good reason. They
should be generally applied toward the end of that reason.
They should be ignored when they detract from that reason.
-
Re: strPtr()?
correction of a typing error:
"I disagree with the spirit and the attitude of the attacks more than I do
the idea behind them.
For those who get religious about the various schools of "netiquette" -
well, you probably aren't really listening at this point anyway, just typing
your next flame. I will always disagree with any kind of policy or opinion
that in effect squelches conversation on newsgroups and has the effect of
reducing the effectiveness of newsgroups as a vehicle for conversion and the
sharing of knowledge and ideas."
"...conversion and the sharing of knowledge and ideas."
should have been:
"...conversation and the sharing of knowledge and ideas."
-
Re: strPtr()?
correction of a typing error:
"I disagree with the spirit and the attitude of the attacks more than I do
the idea behind them.
For those who get religious about the various schools of "netiquette" -
well, you probably aren't really listening at this point anyway, just typing
your next flame. I will always disagree with any kind of policy or opinion
that in effect squelches conversation on newsgroups and has the effect of
reducing the effectiveness of newsgroups as a vehicle for conversion and the
sharing of knowledge and ideas."
"...conversion and the sharing of knowledge and ideas."
should have been:
"...conversation and the sharing of knowledge and ideas."
-
Re: strPtr()?
> Phil, how come you changed "MSNews" to "msnews"
> when you quoted me?
Matthew: No reason, really, I just thought it looked better in all
lower-case.
---
Phil Weber
-
Re: strPtr()?
> Phil, how come you changed "MSNews" to "msnews"
> when you quoted me?
Matthew: No reason, really, I just thought it looked better in all
lower-case.
---
Phil Weber
-
Re: strPtr()?
John: I'm curious whether you consider my reply a "haranguing attack." I
tried to present my point of view in a calm and reasonable fashion.
---
Phil Weber
-
Re: strPtr()?
John: I'm curious whether you consider my reply a "haranguing attack." I
tried to present my point of view in a calm and reasonable fashion.
---
Phil Weber
-
Re: strPtr()?
Take it to the offramp, bub. :-)
--
http://www.mvps.org/vb
"Anthony Jones" <yadayadayada@msn.com> wrote in message
news:3909c217@news.devx.com...
> >It's all about thinking about other people before oneself.
>
> A fine suggestion! If such a principle were applied globally the world
> would be a much better place. I seem to remember some suggesting it
> before, something like 2000 years ago, unfortunately the message didn't go
> down too well with general populace at that time either. :-(
>
> Sorry, just slightly off the API topic.
>
> --
> Anthony Jones
> Secta Group Ltd
> AnthonyWJones@msn.com
>
>
-
Re: strPtr()?
Take it to the offramp, bub. :-)
--
http://www.mvps.org/vb
"Anthony Jones" <yadayadayada@msn.com> wrote in message
news:3909c217@news.devx.com...
> >It's all about thinking about other people before oneself.
>
> A fine suggestion! If such a principle were applied globally the world
> would be a much better place. I seem to remember some suggesting it
> before, something like 2000 years ago, unfortunately the message didn't go
> down too well with general populace at that time either. :-(
>
> Sorry, just slightly off the API topic.
>
> --
> Anthony Jones
> Secta Group Ltd
> AnthonyWJones@msn.com
>
>
-
Re: strPtr()?
John,
Why don't you use your real name and email address? I very rarely get spammed
and I always use my own email address. I think that part of the hostility
you refer to is partly to do with this. People tend to respect people who
use a fake name and email address less. Especially, with an email address
of 666@666.666. This is only my opinion, but I think it is a little teenagerish
ie I would have thought it was really cool when I was a teenager, hence people
will give you less respect.
Mike Culley
"- John of Arc -" <666@666.666> wrote:
>
>Matthew Solnit <msolnit@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:39098b76@news.devx.com...
>
>....
>> This is probably going overboard, but I did recently post to vb.oop and
to
>> microsoft.public.vb.com at the same time, and I would like to apologize.
>I
>> won't do that again. Now, how come nobody responded goldangit?
>>
>> -- Matthew Solnit
>> msolnit@yahoo.com
>
>
>That's the way the way with certain topics and with many newsgroups.
>People are quick to answer the common questions and easy questions, and
>they're quick to attack people.
>
>Waiting a day two before posting to a second server is a very good idea.
I
>will do that in the future.
>
>Thank you, Matthew Solnit, for approaching the topic with a reasonable
>attitude.
>
>My reply email address is real one. I is foolish to use a real one (one's
>own, at least) as the primary email address for a news account. Relative
>anonymity is one of the good things about the internet, especially given
its
>huge population and the potential for exploitation.
>
>I don't know if the advice on writing subject lines is generic in nature
or
>not. If not, I have never been guilty of posting anything like a like "My
>app crashes on this line when doing this" or, what in my opinion is worse,
>asking people to write code for me (though there are a couple of newsgroups
>that seem very friendly to code-exchange). I prefer to ask for general
>advice on a topic, and pointers to URLs and MSDN Library/Knowledge Base
>article titles and 'Q' numbers, as well as topics in the SDK and posts
>listed on deja and the other news search services.
>
>The haranguing responses to my explanation of why I double-posted do not
>address the rationale I presented, nor do they address the notion that the
>internet is the last place where legalism, purism, fundamentalism, elitism,
>and conformism should be the norm. My friendly and legitimate response was
>simply written off. If "community" means anything real, then the immediate
>and reactionary attacks on my posts violate the idea of "community". If
they
>were friendly suggestions, that would be one thing. If they were open to
>suggestion, as I am apparently supposed to be, that would be one thing.
The
>flaming responses to my post might be in order if my explanation had been
>malicious, but it wasn't.
>
>Newsgroups and email lists bring out the worst and unfriendliest behaviour
>in people, I've noticed.
>Filtering me is pretty reactionary, announcing it on the newsgroup is pretty
>rude.
>
>I have been participating in newsgroups with the initial attacker for a
>couple of years now, under several different accounts, and I have so far
>been viewed as a normal and helpful participant of newsgroups. Where I
have
>known anything on a topic, I have been quick to offer suggestions to
>questions asked. The sudden reaction to a perceived infraction is
>completely un-called-for.
>
>It's a very strange and rare experience, if you've actually had spammers
>take the time to explain their rationale to you. The name-calling doesn't
>refute my explanation any more than anything else that has been said. If
>you are of the opinion that there should be only one school of thought on
>the topic of newsgroup etiquette, and that school of thought should be your
>own, then we certainly have nothing else to talk about. If it is your
aim
>to convince me of your extreme and impractical position (it is extreme and
>impractical when applied to the extreme extent that it is being applied
>here.), you'll have to take a different tack. I see that you are not open
>to re-thinking your opinion on the topic. Given that, I wonder why you
>expect that I should?
>
>I disagree with the spirit and the attitude of the attacks more than I do
>the idea behind them.
>For those who get religious about the various schools of "netiquette" -
>well, you probably aren't really listening at this point anyway, just typing
>your next flame. I will always disagree with any kind of policy or opinion
>that in effect squelches conversation on newsgroups and has the effect of
>reducing the effectiveness of newsgroups as a vehicle for conversion and
the
>sharing of knowledge and ideas.
>
>"Community" and "government" are two very different things. Government is
>concerned about rules and enforcement and conformity. Community is the
>friendly forum for the participation and interaction of individuals. A real
>community is not interested in attacking and ostracizing, especially over
an
>occasional perceived aberration. A real community is not quick to react.
>Community is not about catching infractions. A community does not write
off
>a long-time participant over a single disagreement. A real community has
a
>helpful attitude. A real community is more interested in the whole organic
>process and its effective outcome than it is on enforcing form.
>
>I agree that cross-posting is generally a bad idea. Let us note the word
>"generally".
>Rules and understandings should exist and be held for a good reason. They
>should be generally applied toward the end of that reason.
>They should be ignored when they detract from that reason.
>
>
-
Re: strPtr()?
John,
Why don't you use your real name and email address? I very rarely get spammed
and I always use my own email address. I think that part of the hostility
you refer to is partly to do with this. People tend to respect people who
use a fake name and email address less. Especially, with an email address
of 666@666.666. This is only my opinion, but I think it is a little teenagerish
ie I would have thought it was really cool when I was a teenager, hence people
will give you less respect.
Mike Culley
"- John of Arc -" <666@666.666> wrote:
>
>Matthew Solnit <msolnit@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:39098b76@news.devx.com...
>
>....
>> This is probably going overboard, but I did recently post to vb.oop and
to
>> microsoft.public.vb.com at the same time, and I would like to apologize.
>I
>> won't do that again. Now, how come nobody responded goldangit?
>>
>> -- Matthew Solnit
>> msolnit@yahoo.com
>
>
>That's the way the way with certain topics and with many newsgroups.
>People are quick to answer the common questions and easy questions, and
>they're quick to attack people.
>
>Waiting a day two before posting to a second server is a very good idea.
I
>will do that in the future.
>
>Thank you, Matthew Solnit, for approaching the topic with a reasonable
>attitude.
>
>My reply email address is real one. I is foolish to use a real one (one's
>own, at least) as the primary email address for a news account. Relative
>anonymity is one of the good things about the internet, especially given
its
>huge population and the potential for exploitation.
>
>I don't know if the advice on writing subject lines is generic in nature
or
>not. If not, I have never been guilty of posting anything like a like "My
>app crashes on this line when doing this" or, what in my opinion is worse,
>asking people to write code for me (though there are a couple of newsgroups
>that seem very friendly to code-exchange). I prefer to ask for general
>advice on a topic, and pointers to URLs and MSDN Library/Knowledge Base
>article titles and 'Q' numbers, as well as topics in the SDK and posts
>listed on deja and the other news search services.
>
>The haranguing responses to my explanation of why I double-posted do not
>address the rationale I presented, nor do they address the notion that the
>internet is the last place where legalism, purism, fundamentalism, elitism,
>and conformism should be the norm. My friendly and legitimate response was
>simply written off. If "community" means anything real, then the immediate
>and reactionary attacks on my posts violate the idea of "community". If
they
>were friendly suggestions, that would be one thing. If they were open to
>suggestion, as I am apparently supposed to be, that would be one thing.
The
>flaming responses to my post might be in order if my explanation had been
>malicious, but it wasn't.
>
>Newsgroups and email lists bring out the worst and unfriendliest behaviour
>in people, I've noticed.
>Filtering me is pretty reactionary, announcing it on the newsgroup is pretty
>rude.
>
>I have been participating in newsgroups with the initial attacker for a
>couple of years now, under several different accounts, and I have so far
>been viewed as a normal and helpful participant of newsgroups. Where I
have
>known anything on a topic, I have been quick to offer suggestions to
>questions asked. The sudden reaction to a perceived infraction is
>completely un-called-for.
>
>It's a very strange and rare experience, if you've actually had spammers
>take the time to explain their rationale to you. The name-calling doesn't
>refute my explanation any more than anything else that has been said. If
>you are of the opinion that there should be only one school of thought on
>the topic of newsgroup etiquette, and that school of thought should be your
>own, then we certainly have nothing else to talk about. If it is your
aim
>to convince me of your extreme and impractical position (it is extreme and
>impractical when applied to the extreme extent that it is being applied
>here.), you'll have to take a different tack. I see that you are not open
>to re-thinking your opinion on the topic. Given that, I wonder why you
>expect that I should?
>
>I disagree with the spirit and the attitude of the attacks more than I do
>the idea behind them.
>For those who get religious about the various schools of "netiquette" -
>well, you probably aren't really listening at this point anyway, just typing
>your next flame. I will always disagree with any kind of policy or opinion
>that in effect squelches conversation on newsgroups and has the effect of
>reducing the effectiveness of newsgroups as a vehicle for conversion and
the
>sharing of knowledge and ideas.
>
>"Community" and "government" are two very different things. Government is
>concerned about rules and enforcement and conformity. Community is the
>friendly forum for the participation and interaction of individuals. A real
>community is not interested in attacking and ostracizing, especially over
an
>occasional perceived aberration. A real community is not quick to react.
>Community is not about catching infractions. A community does not write
off
>a long-time participant over a single disagreement. A real community has
a
>helpful attitude. A real community is more interested in the whole organic
>process and its effective outcome than it is on enforcing form.
>
>I agree that cross-posting is generally a bad idea. Let us note the word
>"generally".
>Rules and understandings should exist and be held for a good reason. They
>should be generally applied toward the end of that reason.
>They should be ignored when they detract from that reason.
>
>
-
Re: strPtr()?
Michael Culley wrote in message <390a8c3d$1@news.devx.com>...
>
>John,
>
>Why don't you use your real name and email address? I very rarely get
spammed
>and I always use my own email address. I think that part of the hostility
>you refer to is partly to do with this. People tend to respect people who
>use a fake name and email address less. Especially, with an email address
>of 666@666.666. This is only my opinion, but I think it is a little
teenagerish
>ie I would have thought it was really cool when I was a teenager, hence
people
>will give you less respect.
>
>Mike Culley
Actually, I've begun receiving spam as of late. Now, this could be because
one of the listserv's that I'm on is harvesting the addies, but I'm more
inclined to suspect that someone (or many someones) are harvesting devx for
technical-oriented e-mails.
Although, yeah, 666@666.666 is kind of silly as an e-mail addy. =P
--
Colin McGuigan
-
Re: strPtr()?
Michael Culley wrote in message <390a8c3d$1@news.devx.com>...
>
>John,
>
>Why don't you use your real name and email address? I very rarely get
spammed
>and I always use my own email address. I think that part of the hostility
>you refer to is partly to do with this. People tend to respect people who
>use a fake name and email address less. Especially, with an email address
>of 666@666.666. This is only my opinion, but I think it is a little
teenagerish
>ie I would have thought it was really cool when I was a teenager, hence
people
>will give you less respect.
>
>Mike Culley
Actually, I've begun receiving spam as of late. Now, this could be because
one of the listserv's that I'm on is harvesting the addies, but I'm more
inclined to suspect that someone (or many someones) are harvesting devx for
technical-oriented e-mails.
Although, yeah, 666@666.666 is kind of silly as an e-mail addy. =P
--
Colin McGuigan
-
Re: strPtr()?
Michael,
> Why don't you use your real name and email address? I very rarely get
spammed
> and I always use my own email address.
Consider yourself lucky. I receive loads of SPAM as a result of my
activities in the newsgroups.
It totally sucks but since I conduct business on the Internet, I really have
no choice but to include my real email addresses.
--
Jonathan Wood
SoftCircuits Programming
http://www.softcircuits.com
-
Re: strPtr()?
Michael,
> Why don't you use your real name and email address? I very rarely get
spammed
> and I always use my own email address.
Consider yourself lucky. I receive loads of SPAM as a result of my
activities in the newsgroups.
It totally sucks but since I conduct business on the Internet, I really have
no choice but to include my real email addresses.
--
Jonathan Wood
SoftCircuits Programming
http://www.softcircuits.com
-
Re: strPtr()?
Maybe I'm lucky, but I never receive spam on my email account. As a general
rule, if somewhere dodgy wants my email, I use my hotmail account, which
does get spam - usually about home loans. The thing with dev-x is that someone
has to go to the trouble to type in the address, so it is less likely, but
certainly not impossible. This probably means that putting NOSPAM in the
email address doesn't help.
I worked for a company that did alot of SPAM using the telephone - 36000
calls per week to sell the product 20 times if they were lucky. I know from
first hand experience that if a company has to spam to sell their product
then it is no good. If it was any good it would sell itself and they would
not have time to spam.
Mike Culley
"Colin McGuigan" <colin@chicor.com> wrote:
>Michael Culley wrote in message <390a8c3d$1@news.devx.com>...
>>
>>John,
>>
>>Why don't you use your real name and email address? I very rarely get
>spammed
>>and I always use my own email address. I think that part of the hostility
>>you refer to is partly to do with this. People tend to respect people who
>>use a fake name and email address less. Especially, with an email address
>>of 666@666.666. This is only my opinion, but I think it is a little
>teenagerish
>>ie I would have thought it was really cool when I was a teenager, hence
>people
>>will give you less respect.
>>
>>Mike Culley
>
>Actually, I've begun receiving spam as of late. Now, this could be because
>one of the listserv's that I'm on is harvesting the addies, but I'm more
>inclined to suspect that someone (or many someones) are harvesting devx
for
>technical-oriented e-mails.
>
>Although, yeah, 666@666.666 is kind of silly as an e-mail addy. =P
>
>
>--
>Colin McGuigan
>
>
>
-
Re: strPtr()?
Maybe I'm lucky, but I never receive spam on my email account. As a general
rule, if somewhere dodgy wants my email, I use my hotmail account, which
does get spam - usually about home loans. The thing with dev-x is that someone
has to go to the trouble to type in the address, so it is less likely, but
certainly not impossible. This probably means that putting NOSPAM in the
email address doesn't help.
I worked for a company that did alot of SPAM using the telephone - 36000
calls per week to sell the product 20 times if they were lucky. I know from
first hand experience that if a company has to spam to sell their product
then it is no good. If it was any good it would sell itself and they would
not have time to spam.
Mike Culley
"Colin McGuigan" <colin@chicor.com> wrote:
>Michael Culley wrote in message <390a8c3d$1@news.devx.com>...
>>
>>John,
>>
>>Why don't you use your real name and email address? I very rarely get
>spammed
>>and I always use my own email address. I think that part of the hostility
>>you refer to is partly to do with this. People tend to respect people who
>>use a fake name and email address less. Especially, with an email address
>>of 666@666.666. This is only my opinion, but I think it is a little
>teenagerish
>>ie I would have thought it was really cool when I was a teenager, hence
>people
>>will give you less respect.
>>
>>Mike Culley
>
>Actually, I've begun receiving spam as of late. Now, this could be because
>one of the listserv's that I'm on is harvesting the addies, but I'm more
>inclined to suspect that someone (or many someones) are harvesting devx
for
>technical-oriented e-mails.
>
>Although, yeah, 666@666.666 is kind of silly as an e-mail addy. =P
>
>
>--
>Colin McGuigan
>
>
>
-
Re: strPtr()?
> The thing with DevX is that someone has to go to
> the trouble to type in the address, so it is less likely,
> but certainly not impossible.
Mike: *What* is less likely?
---
Phil Weber
-
Re: strPtr()?
> The thing with DevX is that someone has to go to
> the trouble to type in the address, so it is less likely,
> but certainly not impossible.
Mike: *What* is less likely?
---
Phil Weber
-
Re: strPtr()?
Um, I find that spam guards added to the address will filter over 99.9% of
those.
--
MichKa
"Cause it's a bittersweet symphony, thats life..." -- The Verve
random junk of dubious value, at the multilingual,
no scripts required, http://www.trigeminal.com/
"Jonathan Wood" <jwood@softcircuits.com> wrote in message
news:390da116@news.devx.com...
> Michael,
>
> > Why don't you use your real name and email address? I very rarely get
> spammed
> > and I always use my own email address.
>
> Consider yourself lucky. I receive loads of SPAM as a result of my
> activities in the newsgroups.
>
> It totally sucks but since I conduct business on the Internet, I really
have
> no choice but to include my real email addresses.
>
> --
> Jonathan Wood
> SoftCircuits Programming
> http://www.softcircuits.com
>
>
-
Re: strPtr()?
Um, I find that spam guards added to the address will filter over 99.9% of
those.
--
MichKa
"Cause it's a bittersweet symphony, thats life..." -- The Verve
random junk of dubious value, at the multilingual,
no scripts required, http://www.trigeminal.com/
"Jonathan Wood" <jwood@softcircuits.com> wrote in message
news:390da116@news.devx.com...
> Michael,
>
> > Why don't you use your real name and email address? I very rarely get
> spammed
> > and I always use my own email address.
>
> Consider yourself lucky. I receive loads of SPAM as a result of my
> activities in the newsgroups.
>
> It totally sucks but since I conduct business on the Internet, I really
have
> no choice but to include my real email addresses.
>
> --
> Jonathan Wood
> SoftCircuits Programming
> http://www.softcircuits.com
>
>
