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Thread: eclipse

  1. #1
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    eclipse

    Has anyone worked with c++ under eclipse? I cannot figure out how to add a file to my project from a folder that has a lot of source files. I do not want to all all of them -- just a few. I do not want to copy the source to the project folder as multiple projects use the same files and the files do change sometimes. I am letting eclipse handle the makefile for me because I do not know the format(s) for makefiles.

    If I cannot do this under eclipse, can someone recommend a worthwhile free IDE for linux? So far, as a .net user, I have been sorely disappointed by every tool I have tried. I must be missing something as I see all the claims about how much easier/better/faster development is under linux, yet everything says to use this eclipse thing??

  2. #2
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    I have to agree with you. My very brief Eclipse fling was a nightmare. I couldn't fathom why on earth everything had such a distorted logic. One thing I'll never forget os those silly "persepctives" which only get in the way. I also remember frequent crashes, and not being able to find how to add files to the project. I'm sorry, but it's a terrible product. Not that that's going to help you very much but at least you can feel OK about it: it's the IDE, not you.
    Danny Kalev

  3. #3
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    Thanks -- knowing if its me or not is usually where I have to start =)

    Is the a workable free IDE under linux or is it still in the dark ages of home-rolled project files, seperate compiler/linker/debugger/assembler/etc ?

  4. #4
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    There used to be Kylix from Borland. Recently they discontinued it or simply waited for it wither. I guess because it wasn't very suucessful. However, it does offer what you're looking for. I hate to say this, but I suspect we won't see a decent Linux IDE ever unless mr. Gates decides to conquer this terrain, too...
    Danny Kalev

  5. #5
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    I found that for Java, eclipse wasen't all that bad.
    Different story when I tried C++. Glad I'm not the only one having trouble with it.

  6. #6
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    I finally got an answer on the eclipse forum -- basically, the answer is you can't. You must set up your folders in one and only one way, with no code reuse allowed because one cpp file belongs to one and only one project (unless you copy it every time you change to each project, etc). I gave up, setup so I can use visual .net and just enslaved the worthless linux to be a compiler/runner/debugger only. Much credit to the people who do use tools like that and make worthwhile programs... you have much more patience or skill or both than I.

  7. #7
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    I really am amazed at the termendous hype that Eclipse generates. Really, for such a terrible product (and frankly, there's no point in using diplomatic terms about -- it's really that awful), so much fuss and noise! I wonder what these people *really* do for their living -- they can't be programmers, can they?
    Danny Kalev

  8. #8
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    Its one of the reasons I dont do well under linux. I cant seperate the hype from reality. There has to be something good about besides being free, but I havent found it, never can get anything set up into a remotely usable system for anything better than a word processor or browser. I just can't seem to find all the stuff that makes it so much better than windows. Better than dos and maybe win-95, yes. Barely, but it wins against those.

  9. #9
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    The Emperor's New Clothes, I'm afraid...now tell those guys why Word is so much better than Open Office or AbiWord...
    Danny Kalev

  10. #10
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    Eclipse may be bad for C++ editing, but is a very good Java editing tool. Everything is nicely organized, and I haven't had any crashes or bugs in the time I've used it.

  11. #11
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    It did not crash, altho it was so slow I could play like 5 rounds of "same gnome" before it came up. It didnt seem to have any 'bugs' either, to give credit where its due. It simply does not have any acceptable project management ability. Its a fine text editor for c++. The problem is: c++ allows you to put your source files *anywhere* so long as the path is accessible, you can compile your project. Visual studio does this. G++ with a makefile does this. Everything except eclipse does this. Eclipse only works if your source is below the project, and no source that is not part of the project can be at that level. It makes life very difficult. That may only happen if you want it to manage the makefile for you, but makefile management was the biggest reason I wanted the darn thing in the first place. Its not a lost cause -- all the developers have to do is add some features, and I expect they will -- but at this point, its not a useful c++ tool.

  12. #12
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    Easy on Eclipse

    I know I'm a noob to Devx, but I have been using Eclipse for a year and a half now and I swear by it. I use it for everything - ColdFusion, Perl, PHP, Java, and yes even C++. It will come up short when you compare it to a product as mature as Visual Studio .NET, of course VS was a mature product when I started using it almost 10 years ago! The power of eclipse is in it's ability to be extended. The C++ development plugin (the CDT) is even younger than eclipse itself and still definitely needs some work. Overall, my biggest complaint is that sometimes it is slow, and most of the time it is a huge memory hog. But that's Java for ya.

    However, I use it regularly for developing C++ and love the fact that, when coupled with MinGW or Cygwin, I can have a free, standards compliant, robust IDE with good auto-completion that I know will compile equally well in windows and linux/unix variants. I love the built-in cvs (Versioning) support, and the plethora of good, available plug-ins. As far as the problems people have mentioned on this discussion here are my answers:

    1.) It's easy to add other directories to your include path. Anyone familiar with the gcc (and g++, etc.) should be able to figure it out. Right-click on your project, go to properties, then to Build. Then under "Directories" on the "Tool Settings" tab just add your include directory. This is not difficult at all, and should be pretty easy for anyone comfortable working with their project settings in VS.

    2.) Perspectives are great tools for doing different things. See, with Eclipse the attitude isn't that this is your C++ IDE, or your Java IDE, or your PHP IDE, it's just your IDE, and what you change instead of changing IDE's is perspectives. Often-times when you're doing something it says something like "This action is associated with such-and-such a perspective, do you want to switch?" Which is when you should pretty much always say yes.

    3.) Adding files to your project is easy too. You can either import them to the current project, or if you want to add a blank one just right-click on the project menu and go to New->File or New->Class or New->Source File or whichever you want. Easy easy easy. You can control the boiler plate code on these pages through Window->Preferences->C/C++ Editor->Code Templates.

    Those are the only two I remember, but my point is, don't give up on Eclipse - it really is as good as they say it is, or at least it has promising potential to be that good. It's not hype, it's just not as mature as VS, yet.

    Later,

    -Patrick

  13. #13
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    Hi Patrick,

    Thanks for sharing your postive experience with us. I really don't want it to sound that my experience with Eclipse, which was indeed very disappointing, applies to everyone. As you implied, Eclipse is a free product and as such, perhaps it deserves more leeway. The problem is that I don't accept this appraoch. I'm willing to pay (or pay more), as long as the product meets the standards I've been used to. In other words, my choice is based on completely practical reasoning: is it good for me? Is it productive or will I be wasting precious time helping out the product's development team find out bugs?
    I didn't try out CDT, so it may well be the case that things have improved since my traumatic experience several years ago. However, I would also like to emphasize that I'm not that dogmatic about VS. When I took C++ Builder for a test drive in 1998, I was immediately captured by its virtues. It certainly wasn't a perfect IDE and it didn't outperform VC++ either. However, it had many charming features and a fresh, perhaps daring, look and feel. It took me some time to get used to some of its quirks, the different keys, etc., but it was a pleasure. By contrast, Eclipse simply irritated me with the its stupid bugs, clunky interface, terrible memory consumption and slowness and in short -- the very idea of imposing Java on me. In other words, it was an IDE with a hidden agenda that I couldn't stand, and besides that, there was absolutely no added value in it. There's one thing I'm happy about though: the Eclipse team have come to terms with the fact that even their avid users do use C++. And I'm the last person to stand in their way... I simply want to say that if you have already opted to use C++, there are probably better IDEs around. BTW, VS has a free version called the Express Edition. It's not an Open Source product but mots OS users are using these products not because of ideology but simply because they don't want to pay for software.
    Danny Kalev

  14. #14
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    Danny,
    I would encourage you to give it another shot. I can see you've been pretty vocal here on Devx in being an anti-Eclipse advocate, and if you do any Java programming I'm sure you'd love it. I've heard Builder is really good as well, so I can't compare it to that, which seems to be your product of choice.

    I guess the saddening parts of your comments are that you think the interface is ugly and menus misleading? I am continually impressed by the things they thought to put on the context menu, or the shortcuts that you learn pretty quickly (Fast View, View Maximization, Drag and Drop, etc.), so maybe it just comes down to something as simple as personal taste. That's when it's great to have choice.

    As far as your comment about "having already opted to use C++, there are probably better IDE's around then Eclipse" I would agree - generally. But I think when cost is a concern (when is it not?), when you develop in more than one language regularly (or on more than one platform), and once you realize the importance of developing ~good~ standard compliant, cross-platform compatible code -- there's really only one option, period. Couple that with SWT (one of the coolest things to hit Java since sliced bread), and the overall interest in it from the community, it's definitely at least worth a try for anyone looking to learn, or switch IDE's.

    Anyway, the point of this was supposed to be to plead with you to give it another shot, there's been at least two major releases since you last reviewed it, and with a product this young, there's a lots that's been enhanced in that time.

    Later,

    -Patrick

  15. #15
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    1.) It's easy to add other directories to your include path.

    Yes. It is. I want to add a single source file. Include folder was done 'correctly' as in the same way all the other IDE's do it.

    2.) Perspectives are great tools for doing different things.
    I have no problem with this part of the tool. I do feel 'javaed' at times even in the c++ perspective. What DO java ppl have against c++?

    3.) Adding files to your project is easy too.

    If you can explain how to do this one, you have more skill than the ppl on the eclipse site forums. Here is what I have: ONE folder with all the source, most of it windows code that g++ cannot handle. I want to select a couple of files from there to add to my project (well ok quite a few files, but for now say ONE). Moving the files is not acceptable. Fubaring my folder structure is not acceptable. Those options will break a lot of working windows stuff (and its WRONG to force this, c++ does not care where the files live!). I just want to add them from where they are (mounted from windows in the /mnt folder). Eclipse must manage the makefile for me. How do I do this??!!

    It's not hype, it's just not as mature as VS, yet.
    -- I need it NOW -- not next year. Its either ready or its not. I dont expect it to BE vs, just to provide project/makefile management (no/Im stupid?), search/replace/etc project wide (check?), #define management (check, I hate #defines), build/debug management (check? didnt try debug).

    If you can tell me how to turn on autocomplete, that would be a huge bonus, as this project is filled with data structures (its a message passing system, each message has a small class) But just the other would allow me to actually use the thing.

    I never give up, really, but I dont have time right now to coddle linux (Ill be darned if you dont have to recompile the whole frappin OS just to do a broadcast on a socket??!!) or my tools. I have an almost-serious observation (laugh here) between linux vs windows: windows users run apps and do work, linux users configure the os and tools.

    I like borland builder, .net, and an oddball called scientific toolworks 'understand cpp' which I have set up to use cygwins tools. We had something nice on our SGI's too but I forget (they died, and sg wanted $10k to repair a 10 year old machine, so...). Back in school, I vaguely remember the suns having a nice tool as well, however that was relative to like borland 2.0 for dos. Laugh here too... mac pascal was the best darn thing I saw from the time I started (1990?) until visual 6.0 / borland builder 3.0 were out. It really was nice, all in one (compile/debug/execute/all) and auto formatting + syntax highlite.

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