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Thread: VS.NET is written in C# and open source!

  1. #1
    Sean Guest

    VS.NET is written in C# and open source!


    Not sure if all you know this, but it was mentioned in Tech-Ed Atlanta GA,
    last week that Visual Studio.Net is completely written in C#. That is something
    else!

    Also, it was announced that Visual Studio.Net is going to be open source.
    Now I am not sure how, or when, but they were talking about as early as Beta
    2. Of course, they want to "clean up" some code as it were before anyone
    else gets to it, basically formating, proper comments and things of that
    nature.

    Just thought I'd share this...

    Cheers,

    -Sean-

  2. #2
    Patrick Steele Guest

    Re: VS.NET is written in C# and open source!

    In article <3b38d3d3$1@news.devx.com> (from Sean <ilogix@hotmail.com>),
    > Not sure if all you know this, but it was mentioned in Tech-Ed Atlanta GA,
    > last week that Visual Studio.Net is completely written in C#. That is something
    > else!


    A Microsoft employee on one of microsoft's public newsgroups said VS.NET
    was written in both C# and VB.NET.

    > Also, it was announced that Visual Studio.Net is going to be open source.


    That, I find *very* hard to believe...

    --
    Patrick Steele
    (psteele@ipdsolution.com)
    Lead Software Architect
    Image Process Design

  3. #3
    Peter Drayton Guest

    Re: VS.NET is written in C# and open source!

    This is inaccurate. Since C# only generates managed code, there's no way
    VS.NET is 100% C#. Portions of VS.NET are written in managed code
    (supposedly C#), but large chunks are still unmanaged code (C/C++).

    See this thread, "Language VS.Net is implemented in?" on the DOTNET list for
    more details:
    http://discuss.develop.com/archives/...=DOTNET&P=4954

    There are several comments from Microsofties on the topic. You can use the
    "Next in topic" button, 4th from the left, to move through the thread.

    --Peter
    http://staff.develop.com/peterd

    "Sean" <ilogix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:3b38d3d3$1@news.devx.com...
    >
    > Not sure if all you know this, but it was mentioned in Tech-Ed Atlanta GA,
    > last week that Visual Studio.Net is completely written in C#. That is

    something
    > else!





  4. #4
    Sean Guest

    Re: VS.NET is written in C# and open source!


    "Peter Drayton" <peter@razorsoft.com> wrote:
    >This is inaccurate. Since C# only generates managed code, there's no way
    >VS.NET is 100% C#. Portions of VS.NET are written in managed code
    >(supposedly C#), but large chunks are still unmanaged code (C/C++).
    >
    >See this thread, "Language VS.Net is implemented in?" on the DOTNET list

    for
    >more details:
    >http://discuss.develop.com/archives/...=DOTNET&P=4954
    >
    >There are several comments from Microsofties on the topic. You can use the
    >"Next in topic" button, 4th from the left, to move through the thread.

    Cripes! Don't take everything so black and white guys! I merely ment that
    VS.NET WAS written in C#....what the percentages are, I don't know. I was
    just letting you guys know what I heard yesterday.

    Also, as for the open source issue. Yes MS IS, I can't stress that enough...IS
    releasing a good portion if not, the ENTIRE VS.NET platform as open source.
    This is coming from Tech-ED 2001 last week, please confirm with ANOTHER attendee...Please
    jot down my email, and send me a "You were right" in a little while when
    this info comes to light. Cheers everyone!

    -Sean-

    >
    >--Peter
    >http://staff.develop.com/peterd
    >
    >"Sean" <ilogix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    >news:3b38d3d3$1@news.devx.com...
    >>
    >> Not sure if all you know this, but it was mentioned in Tech-Ed Atlanta

    GA,
    >> last week that Visual Studio.Net is completely written in C#. That is

    >something
    >> else!

    >
    >
    >



  5. #5
    AJ Armstrong Guest

    Re: VS.NET is written in C# and open source!

    Hi, Sean

    As you are the only person I have heard this from, and MS releasing VS.Net
    as open source (particularly in the midst of a well-publicised attack on the
    GPL and CopyLefting) would be front page news at least on the tech rags,
    I've got to plead significant doubt. More like incredulity. I'll happily
    admit you were right if someone shows me real evidence, I just don't think
    that eventuality will occur.

    PS - repeating, over and over again, 'I'm right, I swear I am', is not very
    convincing. How about a source? Or are you just trying to start internet
    rumours?

    -AJA


    "Sean" <ilogix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:3b39c98a$1@news.devx.com...
    >
    > "Peter Drayton" <peter@razorsoft.com> wrote:
    > >This is inaccurate. Since C# only generates managed code, there's no way
    > >VS.NET is 100% C#. Portions of VS.NET are written in managed code
    > >(supposedly C#), but large chunks are still unmanaged code (C/C++).
    > >
    > >See this thread, "Language VS.Net is implemented in?" on the DOTNET list

    > for
    > >more details:
    > >http://discuss.develop.com/archives/...=DOTNET&P=4954
    > >
    > >There are several comments from Microsofties on the topic. You can use

    the
    > >"Next in topic" button, 4th from the left, to move through the thread.

    > Cripes! Don't take everything so black and white guys! I merely ment that
    > VS.NET WAS written in C#....what the percentages are, I don't know. I was
    > just letting you guys know what I heard yesterday.
    >
    > Also, as for the open source issue. Yes MS IS, I can't stress that

    enough...IS
    > releasing a good portion if not, the ENTIRE VS.NET platform as open

    source.
    > This is coming from Tech-ED 2001 last week, please confirm with ANOTHER

    attendee...Please
    > jot down my email, and send me a "You were right" in a little while when
    > this info comes to light. Cheers everyone!
    >
    > -Sean-
    >
    > >
    > >--Peter
    > >http://staff.develop.com/peterd
    > >
    > >"Sean" <ilogix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > >news:3b38d3d3$1@news.devx.com...
    > >>
    > >> Not sure if all you know this, but it was mentioned in Tech-Ed Atlanta

    > GA,
    > >> last week that Visual Studio.Net is completely written in C#. That is

    > >something
    > >> else!

    > >
    > >
    > >

    >




  6. #6
    Daniel Pratt Guest

    Re: VS.NET is written in C# and open source!

    Hi AJ,

    Slavo Furman recently posted the following links to the CodeProject
    site:

    http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/010627/sfw023.html

    http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/dotn...27/dotnet.html

    They basically detail MS's plans to release a non-commercial open-source
    implementation of the CLI and a C# compiler for the FreeBSD platform. My
    *impression* is that the FreeBSD platform does not fall under GPL. I also
    suspect that Sean has perhaps again confused VS.NET with C# and the CLI.
    Apologies to Sean if that is not the case.

    Regards,
    Dan

    "AJ Armstrong" <nospamfor_ajarmstrong@ttg-inc.com> wrote in message
    news:3b39f112@news.devx.com...
    > Hi, Sean
    >
    > As you are the only person I have heard this from, and MS releasing VS.Net
    > as open source (particularly in the midst of a well-publicised attack on

    the
    > GPL and CopyLefting) would be front page news at least on the tech rags,
    > I've got to plead significant doubt. More like incredulity. I'll happily
    > admit you were right if someone shows me real evidence, I just don't think
    > that eventuality will occur.
    >
    > PS - repeating, over and over again, 'I'm right, I swear I am', is not

    very
    > convincing. How about a source? Or are you just trying to start internet
    > rumours?
    >
    > -AJA
    >
    >
    > "Sean" <ilogix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:3b39c98a$1@news.devx.com...
    > >
    > > "Peter Drayton" <peter@razorsoft.com> wrote:
    > > >This is inaccurate. Since C# only generates managed code, there's no

    way
    > > >VS.NET is 100% C#. Portions of VS.NET are written in managed code
    > > >(supposedly C#), but large chunks are still unmanaged code (C/C++).
    > > >
    > > >See this thread, "Language VS.Net is implemented in?" on the DOTNET

    list
    > > for
    > > >more details:
    > > >http://discuss.develop.com/archives/...=DOTNET&P=4954
    > > >
    > > >There are several comments from Microsofties on the topic. You can use

    > the
    > > >"Next in topic" button, 4th from the left, to move through the thread.

    > > Cripes! Don't take everything so black and white guys! I merely ment

    that
    > > VS.NET WAS written in C#....what the percentages are, I don't know. I

    was
    > > just letting you guys know what I heard yesterday.
    > >
    > > Also, as for the open source issue. Yes MS IS, I can't stress that

    > enough...IS
    > > releasing a good portion if not, the ENTIRE VS.NET platform as open

    > source.
    > > This is coming from Tech-ED 2001 last week, please confirm with ANOTHER

    > attendee...Please
    > > jot down my email, and send me a "You were right" in a little while when
    > > this info comes to light. Cheers everyone!
    > >
    > > -Sean-
    > >
    > > >
    > > >--Peter
    > > >http://staff.develop.com/peterd
    > > >
    > > >"Sean" <ilogix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > > >news:3b38d3d3$1@news.devx.com...
    > > >>
    > > >> Not sure if all you know this, but it was mentioned in Tech-Ed

    Atlanta
    > > GA,
    > > >> last week that Visual Studio.Net is completely written in C#. That is
    > > >something
    > > >> else!
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >

    > >

    >
    >




  7. #7
    AJ Armstrong Guest

    Re: VS.NET is written in C# and open source!

    That, I can believe. Because C# and MSIL are open standards, there is
    nothing precluding someone from making open source applications that employ
    those standards (any more than there is anything precluding the use of HTML
    or XML standards in an open source project). If MS is actively involved
    (instead of waiting for someone else to), then expect them to exercise their
    Corel options and enter the Linux development arena in a serious way.

    I can not believe that MS will release any part of VS.Net as open source
    (even if there is one day a Linux version), nor can I believe they would
    release the proprietary Windows optimization code in the current C#.Net
    compiler.

    I believe you are right - the BSD license is different from GPL, largely in
    that (I'm pretty sure) the BSD does not include a 'CopyLeft' provision - a
    concept that Microsoft has labelled 'viral licensing'. I would be very,
    very, surprised if MS ever released anything under GPL or any other open
    source license that included copylefting.

    Notes for Sean, re: my use of these terms (anyone who wants to correct me,
    please fire away):

    VS is Visual Studio, the development IDE - could be open sourced, but it
    would be bizarre if it were.

    C# is a programming language, cannot be open-sourced, but (and has) been
    released to an open standardization body.

    MSIL is Microsoft Intermediate Language (I think), which is a kinda-sorta
    interpreted but really compiled pseudo-code that all DotNet languages
    compile into. Theoretically, an MSIL app could be cross-platform in a way
    similar to the way Java is. This, too, could not be open-sourced but could
    be (and has) been released as a standard.

    CLI is the Common Language Infrastructure which is sort of like the Java
    virtual machine. MSIL is interpreted/compiled by a machine-specific CLI
    that converts it to native assembler. Could be open sourced, almost
    certainly won't be for Windows, might be for BSD/Linux.

    The .Net Framework is a huge set of classes that abstract various functions
    and os services. The big challenge to porting .Net to other platforms is
    writing a Framework. The Framework could be open sourced, but it is
    unlikely that it will be as a block. Individual classes, particularly
    implementations for special platforms/purposes (wireless devices) might be
    open sourced.

    Apparently, according to the links below, there is a chance that MS will
    help develop compilers (C# to MSIL), elements of the CLI and Framework
    classes that will be released as "shared source". I would be surprised to
    see the core optimization routines (like GC) ever shared. Given that the
    original language is open, and the compiled destination code (MSIL) are
    open, the source to convert one to the other isn't really all that secret,
    unless it exposes cool techniques (which I expect to see MS hold on to). I
    also note that MS is being extremely careful to say "shared source" and
    "open standards", which are very different from "open source".

    Thanks, Dan


    "Daniel Pratt" <dprREMOVETHISatt71@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:3b39f698$1@news.devx.com...
    > Hi AJ,
    >
    > Slavo Furman recently posted the following links to the CodeProject
    > site:
    >
    > http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/010627/sfw023.html
    >
    > http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/dotn...27/dotnet.html
    >
    > They basically detail MS's plans to release a non-commercial

    open-source
    > implementation of the CLI and a C# compiler for the FreeBSD platform. My
    > *impression* is that the FreeBSD platform does not fall under GPL. I also
    > suspect that Sean has perhaps again confused VS.NET with C# and the CLI.
    > Apologies to Sean if that is not the case.
    >
    > Regards,
    > Dan
    >
    > "AJ Armstrong" <nospamfor_ajarmstrong@ttg-inc.com> wrote in message
    > news:3b39f112@news.devx.com...
    > > Hi, Sean
    > >
    > > As you are the only person I have heard this from, and MS releasing

    VS.Net
    > > as open source (particularly in the midst of a well-publicised attack on

    > the
    > > GPL and CopyLefting) would be front page news at least on the tech rags,
    > > I've got to plead significant doubt. More like incredulity. I'll

    happily
    > > admit you were right if someone shows me real evidence, I just don't

    think
    > > that eventuality will occur.
    > >
    > > PS - repeating, over and over again, 'I'm right, I swear I am', is not

    > very
    > > convincing. How about a source? Or are you just trying to start

    internet
    > > rumours?
    > >
    > > -AJA
    > >
    > >
    > > "Sean" <ilogix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > > news:3b39c98a$1@news.devx.com...
    > > >
    > > > "Peter Drayton" <peter@razorsoft.com> wrote:
    > > > >This is inaccurate. Since C# only generates managed code, there's no

    > way
    > > > >VS.NET is 100% C#. Portions of VS.NET are written in managed code
    > > > >(supposedly C#), but large chunks are still unmanaged code (C/C++).
    > > > >
    > > > >See this thread, "Language VS.Net is implemented in?" on the DOTNET

    > list
    > > > for
    > > > >more details:
    > > >

    >http://discuss.develop.com/archives/...=DOTNET&P=4954
    > > > >
    > > > >There are several comments from Microsofties on the topic. You can

    use
    > > the
    > > > >"Next in topic" button, 4th from the left, to move through the

    thread.
    > > > Cripes! Don't take everything so black and white guys! I merely ment

    > that
    > > > VS.NET WAS written in C#....what the percentages are, I don't know. I

    > was
    > > > just letting you guys know what I heard yesterday.
    > > >
    > > > Also, as for the open source issue. Yes MS IS, I can't stress that

    > > enough...IS
    > > > releasing a good portion if not, the ENTIRE VS.NET platform as open

    > > source.
    > > > This is coming from Tech-ED 2001 last week, please confirm with

    ANOTHER
    > > attendee...Please
    > > > jot down my email, and send me a "You were right" in a little while

    when
    > > > this info comes to light. Cheers everyone!
    > > >
    > > > -Sean-
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >--Peter
    > > > >http://staff.develop.com/peterd
    > > > >
    > > > >"Sean" <ilogix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > > > >news:3b38d3d3$1@news.devx.com...
    > > > >>
    > > > >> Not sure if all you know this, but it was mentioned in Tech-Ed

    > Atlanta
    > > > GA,
    > > > >> last week that Visual Studio.Net is completely written in C#. That

    is
    > > > >something
    > > > >> else!
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >




  8. #8
    Patrick Steele Guest

    Re: VS.NET is written in C# and open source!

    In article <3b3a0692$1@news.devx.com> (from AJ Armstrong
    <nospamfor_ajarmstrong@ttg-inc.com>),
    > I can not believe that MS will release any part of VS.Net as open source
    > (even if there is one day a Linux version), nor can I believe they would
    > release the proprietary Windows optimization code in the current C#.Net
    > compiler.


    I agree. Whomever Sean talked to either was mis-informed or simply was
    "stretching" a rumor he heard from someone else.

    --
    Patrick Steele
    (psteele@ipdsolution.com)
    Lead Software Architect
    Image Process Design

  9. #9
    Peter Drayton Guest

    Re: VS.NET is written in C# and open source!

    Actually, the CLI is a set of specs covering the VM (metadata, type system,
    file format, CIL opcodes & semantics, etc) and ~250 classes that have been
    submitted to ECMA for standardization. In this respect the CLI is loosely
    equivalent to the JVM specs + specs for the core Java classes.

    --Peter
    http://staff.develop.com/peterd

    "AJ Armstrong" <nospamfor_ajarmstrong@ttg-inc.com> wrote in message
    news:3b3a0692$1@news.devx.com...
    > CLI is the Common Language Infrastructure which is sort of like the Java
    > virtual machine. MSIL is interpreted/compiled by a machine-specific CLI
    > that converts it to native assembler. Could be open sourced, almost
    > certainly won't be for Windows, might be for BSD/Linux.





  10. #10
    AJ Armstrong Guest

    Re: VS.NET is written in C# and open source!

    Thanks, Peter. <Sound of frantic erasing>. Hard to keep up with the TLAs.
    :-)

    -AJA


    "Peter Drayton" <peter@razorsoft.com> wrote in message
    news:3b3a10d2$1@news.devx.com...
    > Actually, the CLI is a set of specs covering the VM (metadata, type

    system,
    > file format, CIL opcodes & semantics, etc) and ~250 classes that have been
    > submitted to ECMA for standardization. In this respect the CLI is loosely
    > equivalent to the JVM specs + specs for the core Java classes.
    >
    > --Peter
    > http://staff.develop.com/peterd
    >
    > "AJ Armstrong" <nospamfor_ajarmstrong@ttg-inc.com> wrote in message
    > news:3b3a0692$1@news.devx.com...
    > > CLI is the Common Language Infrastructure which is sort of like the Java
    > > virtual machine. MSIL is interpreted/compiled by a machine-specific CLI
    > > that converts it to native assembler. Could be open sourced, almost
    > > certainly won't be for Windows, might be for BSD/Linux.

    >
    >
    >




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