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Thread: Defining v. Coding

  1. #16
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    The answer to that is not all inclusive.

    Answering Yes or No would be on a case by case, tool by tool, platform by platform basis.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hack View Post
    The answer to that is not all inclusive.

    Answering Yes or No would be on a case by case, tool by tool, platform by platform basis.
    That is true. Maybe I should have phrased it as a more directed question, for example, when developers or even yourself, look at force.com do you see a positive tool for development or a negative tool that takes the work and creativity of application development out of the process?

  3. #18
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    I don't know what force.com is.

    I just looked at their web site.

    It looks like some management would find attractive and developers would find themselves stuck with.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hack View Post
    I don't know what force.com is.

    I just looked at their web site.

    It looks like some management would find attractive and developers would find themselves stuck with.
    They are a Platform as a Service. Meaning they provide a complete environment for the development, customization, and deployment of applications.

    they emphasize making developing easier with tools such as "Interface as a Service" for example, creating an interface with point and click tools with minimal coding and logic.

  5. #20
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    From talking to developers it seems as though restrictions and confinements aren't exactly positive features that they look for when developing applications.

    It seems like Platforms like force.com could give off that image to developers, but then again, they seem to be very popular, as if you look at their application directory they have over 800 apps created there by developers and businesses.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by User Experience View Post
    they have over 800 apps created there by developers and businesses.
    Businesses and business people yes...I would agree with that.

    However, I would very much like to know how many of those 800 are actually full time, professional developers.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hack View Post
    Businesses and business people yes...I would agree with that.

    However, I would very much like to know how many of those 800 are actually full time, professional developers.
    Yeah, thats a question I want answered as well.

    For businesses its appealing because it saves development and deployment time, as well as money.

    If you were working for a company that adopted force.com or another Platform as a Service, I'm assuming you wouldn't be too thrilled?

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by User Experience View Post
    If you were working for a company that adopted force.com or another Platform as a Service, I'm assuming you wouldn't be too thrilled?
    That would depend on the specifics of what and how it does what it does and what that meant to me as a full time professional developer.

    So, I can't answer the question with a No, I wouldn't be thrilled....at the same time I can't answer the question with a Yes, I would be thrilled either.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hack View Post
    That would depend on the specifics of what and how it does what it does and what that meant to me as a full time professional developer.

    So, I can't answer the question with a No, I wouldn't be thrilled....at the same time I can't answer the question with a Yes, I would be thrilled either.
    That makes sense. What is the most tedious part of developing for you? I'm under the impression that developers find debugging and testing their code quite tedious and annoying, mainly because they have to test their entire code, and not just parts of it that they are skeptical about (at least that's how I think it works.)

    Am I accurate with that description?

  10. #25
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    Again, that depends on the development envirnoment.

    I'm a commercial software developer. I get a spec sheet that the BA we have assigned to client has gone over with the client.

    I write the code according to the spec sheet. I do some preliminary testing to make sure things don't blow up, then I ship what I've done over to QA. QA are the ones that really put it through its paces. If it passes QA it goes into a Test environment that the client has access to. If they sign off, it goes into production, otherwise, it usually makes it way back to my desk.

    For the past three years (of a 90 day assignment ) I've been doing onsite work at one of our local clients. This is more of a corporate environment in which the programmer does most of the testing that normally is done by QA. If it is a small enhancement or bug fix, I just roll it out into production.

    If it is a major enhancement, I schedule a get together with the user group and demo it.

    Either way, it really doesn't get seriously tested until it is in someone elses hands.

    In my commerical world, that someone else was QA...in the corporate world, that someone else are my users.

  11. #26
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    What platforms/languages are you using most often for developing and programming?

    What layer takes the most work for you? Interface, Business Logic, or Back End?

  12. #27
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    VB over to VB.NET/ADO.NET and SQL
    Some ASP/ASP.NET

    The backend is handled by the onsite DBAs....I tell 'em what I want and they make it happen.

    I've been coding and designing interfaces for years.

    Coding the business logic is fairly easy once you can get the customer to define the business logic for you. Many I've dealt with are not used to thinking in terms of business rules....they have been doing something for years and years and trying to explain to someone else how to do it invariably winds up incomplete.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hack View Post
    VB over to VB.NET/ADO.NET and SQL
    Some ASP/ASP.NET

    The backend is handled by the onsite DBAs....I tell 'em what I want and they make it happen.

    I've been coding and designing interfaces for years.

    Coding the business logic is fairly easy once you can get the customer to define the business logic for you. Many I've dealt with are not used to thinking in terms of business rules....they have been doing something for years and years and trying to explain to someone else how to do it invariably winds up incomplete.
    Is it possible to test bits of a coded applications rather than testing the entire application and having to redesign the entire applications when the test doesn't work the way you want it to?

    Or do you basically test the entire application and if the test doesn't work then the applications code can be rearranged or ruined?

  14. #29
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    Technically you should retest the entire app, and that does get done prior to the release of a new version.

    Generally speaking though, just the part you did gets tested.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hack View Post
    Technically you should retest the entire app, and that does get done prior to the release of a new version.

    Generally speaking though, just the part you did gets tested.
    If you test a part of an app and it doesn't work correctly, is it difficult to fix? Does it ruin the other code connected to the app?

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